"Up to 11 players now want to leave United after becoming disillusioned with life at the club."

[Strelok]

Yep, Ronaldo sets ridiculous standards, those are the standards you have to aspire to, to be the best. Cant be bothered? Then leave the club to tread water elsewhere.

What standards you're talking about?

He run the least, presses the least, can't trap a ball or pass properly, fall down every challenge and just stand there throwing arms blaming everyone and everything but him when he loses the ball instead of chasing it back. Or miss chance after chance then go kicking opponents out of his frustration on himself. That's his standards nowadays. Surely those are ridiculous that I can agree.

 

[devilish]

Exactly. These cnuts do more running with their mouths/fingers than with their legs.

What this club needs to do is to order its players from engage in anything that is not football related. That means no more brands, no more political issues, no more instagram, nothing. Whoever doesn't like it can simply handle his transfer request and take his circus with him elsewhere.

 

[devilish]

Can you blame them? The fans cried and begged for them to "back the manager", and they in turn let Solskjaer gamble the clubs immediate future away. They gave the fans chosen manager exactly what he wanted, it still went wrong and now everyone has to just live with the consequences.

I was one of the first to say that this policy wasn't the right way to go. We can't try to sort each and every issue we've got with a 60m-80m transfer a pop. That's not how a club sort its own problems. Many applauded Murtough, Ole and Fletcher back then but I fount that strategy to be short sighted, lazy and it defeated the very nature of having a DOF/Technical director in the first place. You don't need a DOF/Technical director to play real life football manager

However I wouldn't put the blame on the fans either. We're not paid to understand how clubs work and how they should run operate. The club should hire top people to do that instead of promoting proven failures from within. I mean Fletcher's appointment is hilarious. In few months the guy went from an U16 coach to technical director. Now he's either a football genius at par with Busby or Sir Alex or else...

 

[devilish]

What standards you're talking about?

He run the least, presses the least, can't trap a ball or pass properly, fall down every challenge and just stand there throwing arms blaming everyone and everything but him when he loses the ball instead of chasing it back. Or miss chance after chance then go kicking opponents out of his frustration on himself. That's his standards nowadays. Surely those are ridiculous that I can agree.

BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Prime Ronaldo didn't run. In fact SAF filled the squad with the likes of Teveth, Rooney and Park who did the running on his behalf. Did the club seriously believe that a 37 year old Ronaldo would start running as if he's some prime Gattuso on steroids? We knew what we were going to get. He played for us, Juventus warned us and surely our 'elite' DOF, Technical director and scouts must have scouted him before committing themselves to that silly contract.

We blame our players which is fair enough as they lack talent and attitude. However no one point fingers towards the very people who keep spending millions on players who are simply not good enough. We've been told that Fletcher and Murtough were very involved into the construction of this very team. Why should they survive the onslaught?

 

[ManchesterManchester]

What standards you're talking about?

He run the least, presses the least, can't trap a ball or pass properly, fall down every challenge and just stand there throwing arms blaming everyone and everything but him when he loses the ball instead of chasing it back. Or miss chance after chance then go kicking opponents out of his frustration on himself. That's his standards nowadays. Surely those are ridiculous that I can agree.

People literally act like he is the same player he was 12 years ago. He is an absolute legend and I am sure he has lots of advice to give younger players and its inspiring to watch him training at his age. However, his days of setting standards on the pitch are over, he should be used sparingly.

 

[dinostar77]

What standards you're talking about?

He run the least, presses the least, can't trap a ball or pass properly, fall down every challenge and just stand there throwing arms blaming everyone and everything but him when he loses the ball instead of chasing it back. Or miss chance after chance then go kicking opponents out of his frustration on himself. That's his standards nowadays. Surely those are ridiculous that I can agree.

Do you know anything about Ronaldo off the pitch? How hard he works on the training ground? The extremes he goes to, to maintain his fitness? His professionalism? I guess not. He is a role model to follow.

Ronaldo at his age is a finisher, thats his role now. Ronaldo the winger has long gone, Ronaldo the muscular powerful forward has gone and now its the lithe, poacher/finisher version. He's the icing on top of the cake, cant blame him for the low standards set by other players.

How much off the ball running did Romario do? Or brasilian Ronaldo? Or Messi? Not much. These guys conserve their energy for where its needed, punishing the opposition by scoring goals.

 

[VP89]

Does anyone know which set of players Howsen is likely to have any links with?

I think he's a buffoon but he does have some ex player links so I'm wondering how far his inside knowledge extends. He said the players leaking to the press are "closer to the ones they know" on Stretford Paddock.

 

[dinostar77]

BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Prime Ronaldo didn't run. In fact SAF filled the squad with the likes of Teveth, Rooney and Park who did the running on his behalf. Did the club seriously believe that a 37 year old Ronaldo would start running as if he's some prime Gattuso on steroids? We knew what we were going to get. He played for us, Juventus warned us and surely our 'elite' DOF, Technical director and scouts must have scouted him before committing themselves to that silly contract.

We blame our players which is fair enough as they lack talent and attitude. However no one point fingers towards the very people who keep spending millions on players who are simply not good enough. We've been told that Fletcher and Murtough were very involved into the construction of this very team. Why should they survive the onslaught?

Thats part of the probelm, the lack of proper planning. If you decide to sign Ronaldo you need players to compensate for his lack of running and pressing. That was down to Ole, murtough and fletcher to figure out before they signed him and they didnt.

Also doesnt help that we have young players who refuse to do the dirty work of pressing and closing down. Referring to theikes of Sancho and Greenwood, who need to add that to their game. Or Shaw who joggs back when losimg the ball high up the pitch. He maybe good going forwards but hes an awful defender. So many goals under Ole were conceeded down Shaw's side of the pitch.

 

[the_cliff]

Do you know anything about Ronaldo off the pitch? How hard he works on the training ground? The extremes he goes to, to maintain his fitness? His professionalism? I guess not. He is a role model to follow.

Ronaldo at his age is a finisher, thats his role now. Ronaldo the winger has long gone, Ronaldo the muscular powerful forward has gone and now its the lithe, poacher/finisher version. He's the icing on top of the cake, cant blame him for the low standards set by other players.

How much off the ball running did Romario do? Or brasilian Ronaldo? Or Messi? Not much. These guys conserve their energy for where its needed, punishing the opposition by scoring goals.

The problem is he's got 6 non penalty goals in the league. He can't finish either.

 

[MinGin]

Do you know anything about Ronaldo off the pitch? How hard he works on the training ground? The extremes he goes to, to maintain his fitness? His professionalism? I guess not. He is a role model to follow.

Ronaldo at his age is a finisher, thats his role now. Ronaldo the winger has long gone, Ronaldo the muscular powerful forward has gone and now its the lithe, poacher/finisher version. He's the icing on top of the cake, cant blame him for the low standards set by other players.

How much off the ball running did Romario do? Or brasilian Ronaldo? Or Messi? Not much. These guys conserve their energy for where its needed, punishing the opposition by scoring goals.

Agree but just like Pobga, he is a luxury wheel now but we have not enough gear to drive it up.
Our players' ability cannot outplay opposite in defence and attack in 9 infield man and let Ronaldo play as finisher only..

 

[VP89]

The problem is he's got 6 non penalty goals in the league. He can't finish either.

Although he has missed a couple sitters, he does broadly feed off scraps too. In a functioning team behind him, he can hoover up so many goals because superb in the final 3rd, but he is still a cherry on top. We need the cake and it wasn't very well put together by Ole

 

[the_cliff]

Although he has missed a couple sitters, he does broadly feed off scraps too. In a functioning team behind him, he can hoover up so many goals because superb in the final 3rd, but he is still a cherry on top. We need the cake and it wasn't very well put together by Ole

He's taken the 2nd most shots in the league has the third highest xG but has the 10th most non penalty goals.

 

[norm87cro]

Makes you think how f... spot on SAF was when he decided to cut ties with Hughes and Ince (who both were much better players than most of our current squad). Hunger is everything on this level (and in a lot of aspects of life in general).

 

[Foxbatt]

Ronaldo is not the problem. At least he puts in the effort. Yes he had bad games too but others have been worse.

 

[Jackal981]

Although he has missed a couple sitters, he does broadly feed off scraps too. In a functioning team behind him, he can hoover up so many goals because superb in the final 3rd, but he is still a cherry on top. We need the cake and it wasn't very well put together by Ole

Ronaldo is a diamond which complete a crown. You cant make a diamond crown by putting a diamond a top of pile of shit

 

[VP89]

He's taken the 2nd most shots in the league has the third highest xG but has the 10th most non penalty goals.

He's such a stealth finisher that's ridiculous in front of goal over his entire career you'd be a bit silly to say that's been completely space jammed because of half a season of underwhelming stats.

 

[the_cliff]

He's such a stealth finisher that's ridiculous in front of goal over his entire career you'd be a bit silly to say that's been completely space jammed because of half a season of underwhelming stats.

Unfortunately, we're in the here and now and the here and now is what matters. The fact that we're sacrificing most other aspects of play including pressing, hold up play and link up play for a finisher that has so far been underwhelming is a major problem.

A player can't expect to start because of what he did 3-4 years ago when he has so far (in the league) been terrible.

A lot of people in here are saying he tries. I don't know where they get that from tbh, he has the least presses per 90 out of every attacker in the premier league.

 

[Dans]

Regarding Ronaldo, let's not forget that it was Ferguson who played a major role in him joining. I can imagine that OGS bowed to his former master's wishes on that one.

 

[kouroux]

What this club needs to do is to order its players from engage in anything that is not football related. That means no more brands, no more political issues, no more instagram, nothing. Whoever doesn't like it can simply handle his transfer request and take his circus with him elsewhere.

like that's gonna get you sign any quality player young or old. You'd be basically hindering their ability to make money, no amount of club love or motivation will get you those illusive players

 

[devilish]

Thats part of the probelm, the lack of proper planning. If you decide to sign Ronaldo you need players to compensate for his lack of running and pressing. That was down to Ole, murtough and fletcher to figure out before they signed him and they didnt.

Also doesnt help that we have young players who refuse to do the dirty work of pressing and closing down. Referring to theikes of Sancho and Greenwood, who need to add that to their game. Or Shaw who joggs back when losimg the ball high up the pitch. He maybe good going forwards but hes an awful defender. So many goals under Ole were conceeded down Shaw's side of the pitch.

United's biggest problem is that we reward failure and we trust amateurs. Murtough was promoted as DOF despite being involved in this mess since Moyes time. Fletcher joined as U16 coach and he was promoted twice in few months. Meanwhile Ole was hired as Manchester United's manager despite his horrible experience at Cardiff. Are you really surprised that we've got a heavily imbalanced team filled with players with the wrong attitude? I mean who on earth would give the captain's band to a new recruit who has been relegated more times then Cruyff had won balon d'or?

Before we even look at the first team we need to involve ourselves into a restructuring process were football decisions must be taken by football men. We must also make sure that we've got the very best in all roles starting from the sporting director role right to the youth coaches, scouts etc. Once that is in place than we can start the cull and remove the players who are clearly not good enough for us.

 

[romufc]

People literally act like he is the same player he was 12 years ago. He is an absolute legend and I am sure he has lots of advice to give younger players and its inspiring to watch him training at his age. However, his days of setting standards on the pitch are over, he should be used sparingly.

I partially agree with this. In terms of setting standards in terms of physicality, training, mentality, Ronaldo is up there with the very best.

If then you talk about standards in matches, he is not the example. As you say 12 years ago, yes because he performed on the pitch, he was out talisman.

Football has changed, standards have changed. You have to lead with example, throwing your hands in the air is not the way to go about it.

When you get the ball, you have to hold it up, when you lose the ball you chase it down, that is current day standards of a top team.

Gone are the days where talent alone will win you football games, you have to work hard now, players are alot more technical

 

[devilish]

like that's gonna get you sign any quality player young or old. You'd be basically hindering their ability to make money, no amount of club love or motivation will get you those illusive players

Most successful football clubs are still run like proper football clubs. We're a circus. Most of our players see football as an afterthought.

 

[Greck]

He's such a stealth finisher that's ridiculous in front of goal over his entire career you'd be a bit silly to say that's been completely space jammed because of half a season of underwhelming stats.

believe me, I think it disgusting how everyone now tries to hide their favourite underperformer behind Ronaldo. He isn't the problem but no, he shouldn't be a week-in week out starter. I sort of understand why Juventus legends said he plays for himself not the team. He takes a lot of bad shots when it would be wise to hold the ball and lay it off and isn't generally interested in link up play that doesn't release him towards goal. It's not necessarily a bad thing, he's a striker after all but if you were to have someone leading your line it would be a more complete forward. He isn't ideal for leading the line and if reports are to be believed that he's why we play with 2 strikers, isn't good enough to have the team bent to his needs. One of the problems we are having in our attack right now is all our forwards have so many selfish me-first striker traits without the quality to justify.

 

[VP89]

Unfortunately, we're in the here and now and the here and now is what matters. The fact that we're sacrificing most other aspects of play including pressing, hold up play and link up play for a finisher that has so far been underwhelming is a major problem.

A player can't expect to start because of what he did 3-4 years ago when he has so far (in the league) been terrible.

A lot of people in here are saying he tries. I don't know where they get that from tbh, he has the least presses per 90 out of every attacker in the premier league.

Of course what is here and now is most relevant - but you're insinuating he's done at that level when he isn't. You're basically taking this turbulent half season as a representative of what Ronaldo is capable of in the Premier League even at this age which isn't accurate at all.

I don't think his build up play is that good and I don't think he tries massively off the ball either. But in that box he is a beast - this is something half a season of under performance isn't going to be enough to negate.

 

[Mastadon]

Worst run club in the world (from a football POV) surely when you factor in your squad being only 50m cheaper than City. This must be a record of sorts for money spent vs how poor the team is.

 

[the_cliff]

Of course what is here and now is most relevant - but you're insinuating he's done at that level when he isn't. You're basically taking this turbulent half season as a representative of what Ronaldo is capable of in the Premier League even at this age which isn't accurate at all.

I don't think his build up play is that good and I don't think he tries massively off the ball either. But in that box he is a beast - this is something half a season of under performance isn't going to be enough to negate.

The problem is mate, in the league he hasn't been a 'beast' for us in the box. That's a major problem. Like you said he doesn't try that much and his link up play isn't all that. So the only reason he's starting is to be a finisher and a 'beast' in the box.

But the numbers don't back up his performances. If he was prime Ronaldo at Real Madrid I wouldn't care if he doesn't press once the whole game, his goals would be worth it.
However, his numbers are terrible and is one of the main reasons why we aren't performing in the league.

In the UCL for example I have no problem with Ronaldo starting he deserves it based on his performances. But you said I'm taking this half season as a representative of what Ronaldo is capable of in the premier league at this age. Well of course I am, I'm not going to take his 07-08 performances am I ? he was a completely different player back then.

The current Ronaldo has been struggling this season in the premier league and it's been to our detriment. Nothing you tell me will prove it otherwise. There's no stat that you can give me that will prove Ronaldo has done well this season in the prem.

 

[VP89]

The problem is mate, in the league he hasn't been a 'beast' for us in the box. That's a major problem. Like you said he doesn't try that much and his link up play isn't all that. So the only reason he's starting is to be a finisher and a 'beast' in the box.

But the numbers don't back up his performances. If he was prime Ronaldo at Real Madrid I wouldn't care if he doesn't press once the whole game, his goals would be worth it.
However, his numbers are terrible and is one of the main reasons why we aren't performing in the league.

In the UCL for example I have no problem with Ronaldo starting he deserves it based on his performances. But you said I'm taking this half season as a representative of what Ronaldo is capable of in the premier league at this age. Well of course I am, I'm not going to take his 07-08 performances am I ? he was a completely different player back then.

The current Ronaldo has been struggling this season in the premier league and it's been to our detriment. Nothing you tell me will prove it otherwise. There's no stat that you can give me that will prove Ronaldo has done well this season in the prem.

I'm not debating he hasn't done well in the prem though.

I'm saying we can't rule him out based on half a season where the entire team has been shite and had to press reset.

 

[Red_toad]

Does anyone know which set of players Howsen is likely to have any links with?

I think he's a buffoon but he does have some ex player links so I'm wondering how far his inside knowledge extends. He said the players leaking to the press are "closer to the ones they know" on Stretford Paddock.

Do you honestly expect any of the current players to link themselves to those YouTube knobs who slag them off on a daily basis? Who’d need that kind of shite in their lives honestly?
If Howson has any insider stuff it’d be through Rio if at all.

 

[Red_toad]

Worst run club in the world (from a football POV) surely when you factor in your squad being only 50m cheaper than City. This must be a record of sorts for money spent vs how poor the team is.

I’d fancy us against Forest though

 

[VP89]

Do you honestly expect any of the current players to link themselves to those YouTube knobs who slag them off on a daily basis? Who’d need that kind of shite in their lives honestly?
If Howson has any insider stuff it’d be through Rio if at all.

That's what I'm saying - through Rio he must know some things.

Also sadly, yes I actually do think a couple of our idiotic players could warm themselves to youtube famous knobs. Social media is a drug for them.

 

[the_cliff]

I'm not debating he hasn't done well in the prem though.

I'm saying we can't rule him out based on half a season where the entire team has been shite and had to press reset.

Maybe, the problem is we've tried to drop everyone. We've basically tried every single combo of players around Ronaldo and it's still not working.

My question is when is it time to drop the one constant out of all the combinations we've tried ?

 

[VP89]

Maybe, the problem is we've tried to drop everyone. We've basically tried every single combo of players around Ronaldo and it's still not working.

My question is when is it time to drop the one constant out of all the combinations we've tried ?

Of course Ronaldo shouldn't start in every game - the problems we have are much wider than that though. We are so careless before it gets to the final third it won't make us much better.

 

[crossy1686]

Ronaldo isn't the problem but he is at the same time.

Behind him, our second highest goal scorer this season is Rashford on 3...

It's not his fault of course but the team are not putting in any kind of effort since he arrived, they're expecting him to bail them out all the time.

 

[Roboc7]

The indulgence, nepotism and obsession with nostalgia has left this squad in worse state than ever post SAF. Maybe it’s most talented we’ve had since he left but the culture and attitude is awful.

The next manager needs to be someone who takes us in a new direction and gets the support to rip this apart and force players to comply or leave. Klopp and Pep not only implemented new styles but set standards for work rate and attitude. You don’t meet those, you don’t play and sooner or later you leave. No nonsense about DNA or historical ways, no favouritism.

 

[Gordon Godot]

The indulgence, nepotism and obsession with nostalgia has left this squad in worse state than ever post SAF. Maybe it’s most talented we’ve had since he left but the culture and attitude is awful.

The next manager needs to be someone who takes us in a new direction and gets the support to rip this apart and force players to comply or leave. Klopp and Pep not only implemented new styles but set standards for work rate and attitude. You don’t meet those, you don’t play and sooner or later you leave. No nonsense about DNA or historical ways, no favouritism.

Until the structure in the club changes, the manager wont have the freedom to do this. We also need a clarity on overall recruitment philosophy driven by a long term DoF to cover both youth and first team recruitment and scouting. Rather than fans blaming manager, players, the moon or whatever, we should agititate and demand this. Woodward fed teh BS line for years that we were going to hire a DoF via his media contacts, then we hire Fletcher though exactly what his role is noone seems to really know.

 

[#07]

Best thing I've ever seen on TalkSport

 

[Hansi Fick]

Until the structure in the club changes, the manager wont have the freedom to do this. We also need a clarity on overall recruitment philosophy driven by a long term DoF to cover both youth and first team recruitment and scouting. Rather than fans blaming manager, players, the moon or whatever, we should agititate and demand this. Woodward fed teh BS line for years that we were going to hire a DoF via his media contacts, then we hire Fletcher though exactly what his role is noone seems to really know.

Manchester United is pleased to announce the promotion of John Murtough to Football Director and Darren Fletcher to Technical Director, two new roles that will further strengthen the club’s football operations.
John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

 

[bond19821982]

So Maguire is the one leading players against Ronaldo ? Seriously? That's man United for you these days .

Can't believe how far we have fallen off.

 

[kouroux]

Most successful football clubs are still run like proper football clubs. We're a circus. Most of our players see football as an afterthought.

And they do that by not stiffling their playerr's ability to make money

 

[Smores]

So Maguire is the one leading players against Ronaldo ? Seriously? That's man United for you these days .

Can't believe how far we have fallen off.

Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, as in he as the captain is the one trying to protect the players from criticism.

It was a point of discussion at the time with Ronaldo and Varane coming in that they'd be a culture shift back to a winners mentality. Most of our players aren't used to that.