Win or lose, the total number of votes has been heartening, hope everyone has enjoyed learning/reminiscing about these United legends, lets try to hit 50 votes in total!
United Legends Grand Final - Team DanNistelrooy vs Team Polaroid
- Thread starter Polaroid
- Start date
Of course subs don't matter as much. Ridiculous to think that you'd compare benches. If you want to compare benches it's only the 1 or 2 players at the most that you'd use.
What games are counted for Taylor? Do you now? Is it league games only? For Ruud it's the Premier League, Champions League (which is the toughest competition to score in) FA and League Cup and Charity Shield.
If it's the league, Europe and FA cup only then Ruud has the better record. Even though for one season he was mostly injured.
Can you quote someone else than Di Stefano? Too what was this quote measured? One game? I don't know? How many players through his years has he quoted to be great? A hell of a lot.
Rafael said the other day that the toughest opponent he's met is Bellamy. Yet he has played against Ribery, Robben, Malouda, Robinho, Ronaldinho.
Name me Tommy Taylor's weaknesses? Can you do that? Was he like Rooney and kicked players when he got pissed off. Prone to cards? Did he have Carroll's first touch? Did he take advantage of an outdated offside rule to score so many goals? Did he use his elbows a lot when going for a header because the game was way more lenient back in those days?
That's what I mean by comparison. You're telling to judge by the United history. Well, he won the league twice. Solskjær won the league 6 times, FA Cup twice and won us a Champions League. So judging by overall impact/contribution he should be a top 3 striker in this game yet he's on the bench.
In FA Cup, Europe and league only Ruud's was better. And he played here as long as Tommy did and arguably played in a tougher league and European competition.
Why is it ridiculous to compare the benches?
Are they not part of the team?
Which part of the poll question or criteria do you misunderstand?
Poll question again: Who has the better United Legends team?
In the OP, voters were asked to judge the merits of both teams based on the following criteria
1) players' performances for United
2) players' impact & contributions to United
3) team tactics and balance
Players on the bench will not influence 3) but why would you totally discount 1) and 2)?
For Taylor it's the old Division 1, European Cup, FA Cup, League Cup and Charity Shield. How is your point about Ruud relevant to Dan and me anyway?
Your requested quote
"Anyone who let Tommy Taylor run into position was very foolish" Bill Foulkes
Johnny Carey also told a story where after he excitedly gave a glowing report on Taylor to Sir Matt, he was told that "You are the ninth person I have sent to see him so he must be good!"
Sir Matt paid a record fee for Taylor and later was to turn down a world record bid from Inter Milan for him
A hell of a lot players who Di Stefano has been quoted as great?
Who is on that lengthy list?
Rafael played against a Ronaldinho well on the decline at Milan. And your point is? that Di Stefano's judgement or opinion is as good as Rafael's?
As I have said in an earlier post, Taylor is not a creative striker, service is important. He was a powerful runner but not one for fancy footwork.
It is not just about trophy count, otherwise i would have been reeling off how much Giggs and Scholes have won. Going by trophy count, David May beats Paul McGrath and Martin Buchan. Is May a bigger United legend than both?
You can read this excellent article by Tom Clare on Taylor
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/50-years-tom-clare-183945/
4-4-2 seems etched in the club's folklore and mythology
You should have really went for a real classic United formation, 2-3-5
And you conveniently forget that we had Ruud in his prime.
He played in the Dutch league when a young man while Tommy Taylor was
playing for the champions of England - a better league by far.
The United team Tommy Taylor played for was there or thereabouts for the best team in Europe.
The Dutch league was a feeder league when Ruud played there.
The glory days of Ajax and Feyenoord were almost 25 years previous with the brief exception of the Ajax team of VDS etc.
Bench doesn't count for much because they aren't playing. Simple as that. I'm just telling you how I and probably most people see it. When United play Chelsea I don't care about their bench until a player comes on.
The Ruud comparison isn't relevant to the Dan and you. It was a reply to another poster who posted.
I don't see how Taylor could have played in the League cup since it was established after his death. If I'm wrong I believe that South African fella who said he was held captive in a cave for 2 years by zombies.
What's my point with Rafael? Different players perceive different things. Pele is as big as legend as Di Stefano. In fact he's better. What's his take on Messi now? What was Gerrard's take on Joe Cole again?
Fact is I've never seen Tommy Taylor play. I doubt anyone on the caf has seen much either. So his talent is obviously debatable since none of us here have much to go on. He's one of the Busby Babes that died tragically in Munich. By that fact alone he will be held in a higher regard than if he hadn't because of what could have been.
I've read some of these articles. I read one the other day about United's matches straight after Munich. There were youngster in it that were highly praised that you'd think that they were the biggest talents in England. Yet all of them got sold a few years later and in the end weren't that special. But the article is written that way because it gives it more charm and it's more enjoyable to read about when it's linked to the most tragic even in the club history.
If you wanna know why I voted for Dan and not you it's mostly because of the front two on the other side. The teams are really similar and you both have about the same amount of players that i know little of. If you had started with Ole instead of Whiteside you'd probably have had gotten my vote. But at the moment it wouldn't have mattered anyway if I changed it.
The Ruud comparison isn't relevant to the Dan and you. It was a reply to another poster who posted.
I don't see how Taylor could have played in the League cup since it was established after his death. If I'm wrong I believe that South African fella who said he was held captive in a cave for 2 years by zombies.
What's my point with Rafael? Different players perceive different things. Pele is as big as legend as Di Stefano. In fact he's better. What's his take on Messi now? What was Gerrard's take on Joe Cole again?
Fact is I've never seen Tommy Taylor play. I doubt anyone on the caf has seen much either. So his talent is obviously debatable since none of us here have much to go on. He's one of the Busby Babes that died tragically in Munich. By that fact alone he will be held in a higher regard than if he hadn't because of what could have been.
I've read some of these articles. I read one the other day about United's matches straight after Munich. There were youngster in it that were highly praised that you'd think that they were the biggest talents in England. Yet all of them got sold a few years later and in the end weren't that special. But the article is written that way because it gives it more charm and it's more enjoyable to read about when it's linked to the most tragic even in the club history.
If you wanna know why I voted for Dan and not you it's mostly because of the front two on the other side. The teams are really similar and you both have about the same amount of players that i know little of. If you had started with Ole instead of Whiteside you'd probably have had gotten my vote. But at the moment it wouldn't have mattered anyway if I changed it.
Tommy grew up in English football whilst Ruud had to move here and adapt and he was still in his prime when he got sold. I'm not using his goal scoring in Holland as a comparison.
The United team Ruud played for was probably the worst United team in the past 20 years but still he managed to score this much. I'd say playing in the best team is to your advantage, wouldn't you agree?
Agreed, but United revolved around Ruud scoring.
The point I'm making is not that Ruud wasn't extraordinary.
It's that Tommy Taylor was too.
I just felt you were too dismissive of footballers that were before your time.
I never saw Tommy Taylor.
I remember my old man when the Babes died tho'.
No, they are not overrated.
I saw Best, Law and Charlton.
They would have managed the Britannia on a rainy Tuesday night in February.
Legends are legends for a reason.
Congratulations to Dan! the winner of United Legends Fantasy tournament he has an excellent side with top drawer legends like Law, Best and Keane, and he won comfortably regardless of the tactical debate
A big thank you to all the voters, the tournament would not be what it is without you. There is an ongoing 70s fantasy tournament organized by Brwned in the football forum, please lend them your support, I believe they will welcome your participation in voting and sharing of thoughts there as well
he has an excellent side with top drawer legends like Law, Best and Keane, and he won comfortably regardless of the tactical debateA big thank you to all the voters, the tournament would not be what it is without you. There is an ongoing 70s fantasy tournament organized by Brwned in the football forum, please lend them your support, I believe they will welcome your participation in voting and sharing of thoughts there as well
Wow, wasn't expecting to win by a comfortable margin. I have to say when I saw Polaroid's midfield I was very worried.
Could have gone either way, cheers for organising the whole thing Polaroid, has been fun.
Could have gone either way, cheers for organising the whole thing Polaroid, has been fun.
I said go back a few years, i.e. post 99, not in 08. At that point the argument was pretty settled.
Beckham is a bit of a misfit in a 4-3-3
He will counter and attack down the wings throughout the game. He is not playing a classic No. 10, nor does he have any significant threat from central midfield. Why you would play a man in the hole in those circumstances is beyond me, a second striker is always going to be more effective than wasting Edwards there.
I've seen McGrath play and rate him highly, higher than the other 3 CBs. I just think football can be a very simple game sometimes and the way Dan is setup he is embracing that simplicity very effectively.
I said most of OUR best memories. I doubt most voters watched either team regularly.
I personally never saw Taylor as a fox-in-the-box type (there isn't much footage, granted). In Ole you have picked a supersub and one of the deadliest finishers we've had. Good call.
For what it's worth, I WOULD vote for your team as it is now.
Did George Best win this competition all on his own?!
I'm not dismissive. I just can't possibly compare the lot because I've got nothing to compare hem besides stats and trophy haul.
Pre-Munchen era is just so long ago and most witnesses aren't around anymore. I feel comfortable talking about Charlton and Best. I've seen them. Much more footage available of them.
Evidently not, as i had him for the first 3 games, the first 2 of which were losses.
True, forgot that. Just very surprised DanNistelrooy won the whole thing.
He always manages to get far. Guess he's got some hidden internet charisma that charms your subconscious.