It is a good and sensible PR exercise. As long as this has no impact on what Ralf is doing on the footballing side of the club, I don't see any problems with this.
United contact Gary Neville and other ex players in the media
- Thread starter L1nk
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Who was offered a job?
Based on previous experiences, I would absolutely not seek advise from the majority of Utd alumni in terms of onfield stuff
Ryan Giggs recommended Dan James as a signing. Gary Neville got annihilated as Valencia manager and was a England coach at a time when fecking Iceland of all countries beat them in a Euros knockout game (and comfortably too).
Just sever the majority of connections to the past and go for fresh ideas and perspectives.
Ryan Giggs recommended Dan James as a signing. Gary Neville got annihilated as Valencia manager and was a England coach at a time when fecking Iceland of all countries beat them in a Euros knockout game (and comfortably too).
Just sever the majority of connections to the past and go for fresh ideas and perspectives.
This might be slightly meandering and beside the point (and not based on a lot of concrete data), but there is a lot of value in venturing out to experience a lot of different things, especially in the formative stages of your education, as your perspectives will be challenged/reformed, and you will ultimately be able to draw inspiration from a broad palette of great footballing cultures, individuals and circumstances. The likes of van der Sar and Overmars are former Ajax players, but if we scratch the surface — they also had eclectic adventures with clubs in England, Italy and Spain given their careers at United, Arsenal, Juventus and Barcelona — under managers and administrators like Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelotti, van Gaal, Gill, Moggi, Beenhakker, Dein, Begiristain (all of whom must have subtly informed their cross-disciplinary approaches).
Zidane watched how Lippi went about his business at Juventus, and then del Bosque and Ancelotti at Madrid — you can find fingerprints of their influences in his methods. Guardiola had the most varied education of them all: Cruyff, van Gaal, Robson and Mourinho as coaches at Barcelona, Capello at Roma, and then Lillo in Mexico — all while having a deep sense of admiration for Sacchi and Bielsa; and his ideology includes a lot of their principles. Even with Bayern, current or former administrators or advisors like Rummenigge, Salihamidžić, Breitner, Sammer played in Serie A and La Liga as well as the Bundesliga, under a wide range of really good managers and administrators like Trapattoni, Lattek, Hitzfeld, Miljanić, Magath and so forth.
A lot of former United players have only Ferguson as their top-level reference point(s) — a historically great model, no doubt about that; but you sometimes get the sense (based mostly on their media appearances...which might be misleading) that because of his longevity (and unquestioned authority), many of them have rather constricted, nostalgic, and I dare suggest, doctrinaire-ish, footballing beliefs. That isn't to denigrate their aptitude/expertise or assert that appointing former players as staff members would compulsorily be a bad thing mind, you could find plenty of contradictory evidence and there's no hard-and-fast rule to competence/success in that sphere — and for all we know, they might be the exact ingredient we've missed. Apologies for the tangential post, btw.
One of the biggest misconceptions in sport is that athletes know the sport they were good at. In some cases, it's true, but it's not necessarily the case, by any means. The lack of elite level players who became elite managers us a testament to that, the two don't always correlate.
I tend to avoid podcasts with ex-players for this reason. They just don't tend to be that knowledgeable, so I don't see what they can offer a club like United which should be far more professional than pandering to media figures.
I tend to avoid podcasts with ex-players for this reason. They just don't tend to be that knowledgeable, so I don't see what they can offer a club like United which should be far more professional than pandering to media figures.
The only one that might be a shout in hearing opinions of is Neville because of his work with Salford. No one else.
Do you even know what day it is?
but his managers stint wasnt so good though was it?
No one is suggesting him to be a manager, even Arnold. Its just to hear his thoughts about the organizational structure of the club and looking at it from high level.
I think that's reasonably what the tweet is insinuating.
Hopefully, Neville would do the hosting duty when Pogba announces his contract decision in a live stream.
Some of you need to calm down.
The collaboration will be about avoiding PR disasters like the European Super League fiasco that happened under Woodward.
United already have lots of people looking after sporting matters at the senior level: Fletcher, Murtaugh, Arnold, Rangnick et al. There's no room to be adding anyone else into the mix.
These media ex-pros will be there to advise on public relations. After all, they're the ones who often set the agenda on TV.
In a lot of ways, this would be a genius move to control the narratives before, during and after they happen. I actually think this compromises Neville, Rio, Keane and Scholes more than it does the club.
The collaboration will be about avoiding PR disasters like the European Super League fiasco that happened under Woodward.
United already have lots of people looking after sporting matters at the senior level: Fletcher, Murtaugh, Arnold, Rangnick et al. There's no room to be adding anyone else into the mix.
These media ex-pros will be there to advise on public relations. After all, they're the ones who often set the agenda on TV.
In a lot of ways, this would be a genius move to control the narratives before, during and after they happen. I actually think this compromises Neville, Rio, Keane and Scholes more than it does the club.
Genius plan. How?
Let's try and start acting like a properly run football club and let someone with the knowledge and experience of laying the foundations for the long-term good of the club have a go... ok let's hire Rangnick ... well that didn't last long... sorry (feck you) Ralf you don't have the Utd DNA...Gaz, Keano, Rio, Scholesy can you regurgitate some Fergie-isms?!
Wtf!! this isn't Hogwarts, where the incantations of some old magical spells will make everything right again!
Let's concentrate on Man utd the football team and not Man utd the club brand.
As someone said earlir...BOllox!!
Wtf!! this isn't Hogwarts, where the incantations of some old magical spells will make everything right again!
Let's concentrate on Man utd the football team and not Man utd the club brand.
As someone said earlir...BOllox!!
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I like the idea of listening to Keane because he’ll be brutally honest. I don’t think he’d have an agenda.
This is a quality post. The last paragraph especially regarding SAF. Alot of them still call him boss, even ones who played under other managers.This might be slightly meandering and beside the point (and not based on a lot of concrete data), but there is a lot of value in venturing out to experience a lot of different things, especially in the formative stages of your education, as your perspectives will be challenged/reformed, and you will ultimately be able to draw inspiration from a broad palette of great footballing cultures, individuals and circumstances. The likes of van der Sar and Overmars are former Ajax players, but if we scratch the surface — they also had eclectic adventures with clubs in England, Italy and Spain given their careers at United, Arsenal, Juventus and Barcelona — under managers and administrators like Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelotti, van Gaal, Gill, Moggi, Beenhakker, Dein, Begiristain (all of whom must have subtly informed their cross-disciplinary approaches).
Zidane watched how Lippi went about his business at Juventus, and then del Bosque and Ancelotti at Madrid — you can find fingerprints of their influences in his methods. Guardiola had the most varied education of them all: Cruyff, van Gaal, Robson and Mourinho as coaches at Barcelona, Capello at Roma, and then Lillo in Mexico — all while having a deep sense of admiration for Sacchi and Bielsa; and his ideology includes a lot of their principles. Even with Bayern, current or former administrators or advisors like Rummenigge, Salihamidžić, Breitner, Sammer played in Serie A and La Liga as well as the Bundesliga, under a wide range of really good managers and administrators like Trapattoni, Lattek, Hitzfeld, Miljanić, Magath and so forth.
A lot of former United players have only Ferguson as their top-level reference point(s) — a historically great model, no doubt about that; but you sometimes get the sense (based mostly on their media appearances...which might be misleading) that because of his longevity (and unquestioned authority), many of them have rather constricted, nostalgic, and I dare suggest, doctrinaire-ish, footballing beliefs. That isn't to denigrate their aptitude/expertise or assert that appointing former players as staff members would compulsorily be a bad thing mind, you could find plenty of contradictory evidence and there's no hard-and-fast rule to competence/success in that sphere — and for all we know, they might be the exact ingredient we've missed. Apologies for the tangential post, btw.
I think it makes sense. For eg, take note of everything Evra says, and do the exact opposite.
Loved them as players but this doesn't sound like a good idea.
Our obsession with our storied past will undermine our appetite for adaptation and change to the increasingly unpredictable world of modern football
Salford is a mid-table League two club. Why would United need his experience with a league two Club organizational structure?
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Fixed.
It is just PR. Don't fall for it. We need more organisational structural nouse than ex players can give.
What is in the article? It's like headlines and just people have to guess the content. Everyone starts writing their own version.
The foundations for success at City were laid by Brian Marwood
who brought Begiristain to the club in 2012, when City were reigning champions. Begiristain's record in the transfer market hasn't exactly been stellar either and a combination of state backing and Guardiola's tactical acumen has saved him from being exposed imo.
Michael Edwards was ridiculed by Liverpool fans and journos alike before Klopp arrived. Had Liverpool hired a head coach after Rodgers, who like Rodgers was allowed his own recruitment staff, then we might not be talking about Edwards in glowing terms today.
All the clubs that are successful, have one thing in common, and that is the person heading the football department is aligning the recruitment from top to bottom with total control to make decisions independently from the head coach. That won't work if you bring in a Manager and then allow him total control to bring in his own scout, like we did with Solskjaer who was our head coach, as well as DoF, and was assisted by his personal scout Simon Wells. We also allowed his assistant Mike Phelan to sit on the transfer committee and we ended up signing his former player from Hull City for a world record fee for a CB.
Atletico Madrid have a Lawyer as DoF, and they've punched above their weight against two powerhouses in La Liga.
How dare he contact them to discuss stuff we know nothing about.
Personally think we should be concentrating on creating new legends not worrying what ex players think. We don’t need a job for the boys culture at the club. Many would argue there has been enough of that over the past few years.
This thread is hilarious. What are the chances of United asking media personalities their advice on how to run the club?
Media personalities have a huge impact on how anything is perceived by the general public. People are time poor and many football fans aren't the brightest. They will hear something from a media pundit and immediately adopt that as their opinion, whether it's true, logical or even possible. All that's required is that they want it to be true.
Controlling the media narrative is extremely powerful and not just for public perception. Remember when Howard Webb was deigned a United fan for the penalties he awarded to United (all completely justified) and then proceded to turn down the most blatant penalties you will ever see as a result.
Klopp's rubbish about United getting so many penalties also impacted ref's willingness to award, even obvious and blatant penalties to United.
These are media stories that become true because nobody is challenging it and it has a genuine impact on the team's success.
The United hierarchy doesn't do publicity. They are not visible, they don't issue statements, and so, when damaging stories or stories portraying the United hierarchy as clueless morons come out, they need allies in powerful media positions to sell the narrative.
That's all this is. Not "please help us understand how to run a football club because we're absolute muppets".
Media personalities have a huge impact on how anything is perceived by the general public. People are time poor and many football fans aren't the brightest. They will hear something from a media pundit and immediately adopt that as their opinion, whether it's true, logical or even possible. All that's required is that they want it to be true.
Controlling the media narrative is extremely powerful and not just for public perception. Remember when Howard Webb was deigned a United fan for the penalties he awarded to United (all completely justified) and then proceded to turn down the most blatant penalties you will ever see as a result.
Klopp's rubbish about United getting so many penalties also impacted ref's willingness to award, even obvious and blatant penalties to United.
These are media stories that become true because nobody is challenging it and it has a genuine impact on the team's success.
The United hierarchy doesn't do publicity. They are not visible, they don't issue statements, and so, when damaging stories or stories portraying the United hierarchy as clueless morons come out, they need allies in powerful media positions to sell the narrative.
That's all this is. Not "please help us understand how to run a football club because we're absolute muppets".
Edwards was ridiculed because the Premier League status quo and the media couldn't accept a "Continental" model would work. Not because he ever did a bad job.
My point wasn't really about those two, they're just the two most prominent DoFs in the Premier League. My point is, we haven't been well-run and Woodward has made so many bad decisions it's almost beyond parody.
You need experienced people with clarity of vision and an understanding of the mechanics of the game to come in and set the agenda.
I fail to see how Rio, Scholes, Neville et al and in any way qualified to offer any advice
My initial fear was we contacted for the managers job haha. But yeh hopefully nothing to do with a role at the club. He is quite frankly clueless.
I don't think when City bought players is independent of Pep wants. And Atletico's success is down to Simeone, regardless of their DoF. If he leaves, I don't think Atletico continue to be as successful. And United has proven that a Club can be successful with head coach making decisions.
There's just no black and white which one is the best method. If you hire good manager like Fergie, Klopp, Pep, or Simeone, any method is a successful one.
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Has Scholes even expressed interest in the job ?
You still dont get it and have it the wrong way round. The first poster is spot on, teams built structures and then bring in managers. City have built probably the world's best football structure, by hiring the best people. They were not afraid to raid Barcelona for staff well before Pep came in. If they had not got Pep, they would still ahve been successful, and will be when he goes. Sure not as much, but the conveyor belt of talent and the clear football philosophy will continue. Lesser point but it also reflects the fact that the top clubs are now simply too large and complex for one person to have overall visibiltiy and control
So those posters myopically imagining that we finally get the 'right' manager and all is fine are deluded. Of course all is not lost. But what really really p*sses me off is that its not that hard. We have the money, we just need a board to get their heads out of their *rses and bring in experienced football people to run the club. That after all is the art of good management. As for them now reachig out to Neville and others, its just more embarrassment. Stop making stupid decisions and the criticism will stop.
Read Lockhurst's excellent reason piece on how Ole's soft managemetn contributed to the mess we are in, but also the inept dithering in the background of the board. Then tell its all 'fine' and we building a structure. Its not and we aren't. By apppointing Arnold we risk just cementing the current dysfunctional system for the next few years
That's the main point though. United fans would like these ex- to keep telling it like it is about the Club, instead of sugar-coating it; like what (most likely) United purpose of reaching out to these ex-.
100% this. We are still stuck in the past and nostalgia. We dont need advice from any of these jokers, and frankly Fergie should not be anywhere near desions on either transfers and managers. City brought in professionals from the top of world football. We should do the same. I can only imagine the thorough search that gave us AWB as teh modern right back was then employed to unearth Darren Fletcher as our technical director. Imagine the list of requirments for that role that he ticked, must have been a long one, starting with zero actual experience. Way to go, Ed.
I guess you can see it like this:
You need a good manager to be successful.
You need a good DoF to prevent a bad manager doing too much damage.
It's just an attempt to silence criticism. A "how can we communicate better" situation. It's not actually going to do anything other than annoy Roy Keane 
Agreed. Good DoF make it easier to fire bad manager or find good manager. We all can agree with that.
But it's still down to having good manager where Club can be successful. Liverpool was the same before and during Klopp. All their success are down to Klopp managing the team. They can give the same players, support, DoF, etc, but if they had Ole managing the team, they'd still be a non-relevant Club.
Are they telling it like it is? Do they have any idea what's going on at the club?
Create a positive relationship and they'll view what you do more positively. Like how Gary Neville will never criticise an English player he coached or how England's Golden Generation were all painted as "world class" by their mates in the media.
You mean what are the chances of United asking ex-players who are currently pundits advice on how to run the club? Who knows. I'm sure those players wouldn't possibly try to give advice on how to run the club and would just stick to promotion of the club.
I mean, what are the chances of United letting a banker with an awful track record on transfers manage that aspect of the club for over 8 years.
What are the chances of a club the size and wealth of United having a stadium that leaks and needs massive reinvestment in it.
What are the chances of the club running an outdated and unsuccessful structure for over a decade as most of our rivals modernise.
What are the chances of giving an ex-player with an awful management record 3 years to achieve nothing and rewarding him with a long term contract when anyone with half a brain could see that Ole wasn't even close to being good enough to win us serious trophies.
Most of the ex-United players have had rubbish management careers and I don't want them anywhere near the football aspects of the club.
If they keep their noses out of anything but a very limited role that doesn't effect the football side of the business then fine but most of us don't trust the club as far as we can throw it and this just seems like another stupid plan that will backfire.
The clubs main currency at this point is nostalgia and loyalty and this just feels like another attempt to play on that.
I said might. If you combine all his work in player, coach and football club owner/director capacities hes more qualified for a light consultancy role than say Fletcher is for his role.
He's a shit manager and his experience is running a mid-table League Two club. None is useful for United. Experience is important, but need to be relevant and good experience.
You can't argue his work at Salford or his coaching work for the national team is irrelevant.