U.S. Presidential Race: Official Thread

Obama or McCain/Democrat or Republican..you decide

  • McCain

    Votes: 14 7.5%
  • Obama

    Votes: 173 92.5%

  • Total voters
    187
  • Poll closed .
..you have missed the point.
The Democratic party rules are What they are....

Hillary was willing to overlook the polular vote and was lobbying the Super-delagtes last month to overturn Obama's momentum...
....and it is ridiculous for you to mention Obama's 'adavntage in cacusses.....what does she work under different rules???

read my explanation about the close shop tactic...which the Clintons may employ....that will gurantee a Republican win in Nov...and probably set back the Democratic party for a generation....

..to sum it up...Clinton solidifys the Republican base....They would love for her to be the nomineee...Obama will win the election if he is nominated....

...but Clinton is not about the party...she is about herself....

Exactly the Democratic party rules are what they are, NOWHERE in the rules does it say superdelegates have to vote in line with pledged delegates, if they need a "reason" to vote differently to the pledged delegates, the popular vote (if she wins it) will be a very good excuse.

I know the Clintons is all about power and herself, and any underhand tactic in the convention is a terrible idea, but with her being in the last chance saloon, they will try every trick in the book to bulldoze her way to the nomination.

Also, how can you be so sure that Obama will win if he gets nominated? Her red phone ad seems to have worked very well in the past week, so why shouldn't it work just as well for McCain?
 
Obama's biggest strength is 'change'...people want change more than the experience issue which the red phone BS is about...actually it is just fear mongering...

'it is the Economy stupid'....we will be in deep recession come November....if the Dems cannot win this one...they should dissolve the party....

So how do you explain the exit polls indicating that 2/3 of the voters who decided in the last few days voting for her? They like her new pantsuit? :rolleyes:

Of course the economy will be the biggest issue come Nov, but Hillary will provide McCain with a lot of ammunition on Obama if she doesn't win it...
 
If Hilary gets in I'm gonna lol pretty badly. Second inept, no mark twat to get in on the back of a relatives name in a row.

Good luck voting for which ever candidates your ruling class preselects for you. Celebrity obsessed morons.
 
If Hilary gets in I'm gonna lol pretty badly. Second inept, no mark twat to get in on the back of a relatives name in a row.

Good luck voting for which ever candidates your ruling class preselects for you. Celebrity obsessed morons.

1. Clinton is not winning the presidency.

2. If that second sentence is directed at Americans in general, then go take a flying leap. :lol::lol: USA! USA! USA!
 
Funny how everyone seems to be a American political analyst these days
 
I can't see how Obama could go on to win the Presidency now (I know, I know he has to get nominated first) but since Super Tuesday the press have seemingly coronated him, he has become their darling and all they do is speak of his greatness whilst the only attention Clinton has been getting is when is she going to drop out, if Obama on those terms gets beaten very convincingly in Ohio and Texas then what hope has he got potentially in November when the press will be far from complimentary?
 
Hillary is Queen of the Idiots of Middle America. End of story.

The thing is though Obama is on the whole winning the Republican leaning states, virtually the entire mid-west and great plains states are going for him whilst the traditional democratic power bases are going Clinton- if he is not first choice amongst democrats within powerful states then what does that say about his durability?
 
1. Clinton is not winning the presidency.

2. If that second sentence is directed at Americans in general, then go take a flying leap. :lol::lol: USA! USA! USA!

Why do you think that?

I can't see how Obama could go on to win the Presidency now (I know, I know he has to get nominated first) but since Super Tuesday the press have seemingly coronated him, he has become their darling and all they do is speak of his greatness whilst the only attention Clinton has been getting is when is she going to drop out, if Obama on those terms gets beaten very convincingly in Ohio and Texas then what hope has he got potentially in November when the press will be far from complimentary?

Clinton did not win convincingly looking at the figures. I am always annoyed when a candidate gains votes through attack ads and the politics of fear. Bollocks to her.
 
There's only one winner from this Democratic battle - the Republicans

Well, that was the worst possible outcome for the Democrats - and for all those, in America and beyond, yearning for change after eight failed years of Republican rule. The results of Tuesday's contests in Ohio and Texas promise a slow disaster for the party for whom 2008 should have been an easy and golden year.

Even a week ago, Democrats had March 4 circled on the calendar as the day of closure. Barack Obama did not need to extend his winning streak over the past 11 contests by much, just enough to confirm that the momentum he had built over February - measured in votes, money and top-drawer endorsements - was irreversible. A narrow win in Texas would have done it. Bill Clinton had said as much, noting that if Hillary did not win both of Tuesday's big states, she'd be finished. The party bigwigs would have closed in, tapped Hillary on the shoulder and told her it was time to step aside.

Instead, Hillary Clinton won 51% of the vote in Texas and took Ohio by much more - and she's not about to give way to anybody. This fight will go on. Which means that the Democrats now brace themselves for months more rancour and division, tangled up in a battle with each other. Occasionally, they'll be able to pause from their wrestling, look up from the mud bath and see a smiling John McCain strolling towards November. For the Republicans resolved their nomination fight on Tuesday night, just as Democrats ensured protracted indecision in theirs. McCain now has a clear path before him. He can simply press ahead, framing the general election debate on his own terms and defining himself before his opponent gets a chance to do it for him.

Optimistic Democrats see a sunny side to this never-ending saga of primaries and caucuses. For one thing, with the drama all on their side, the media spotlight stays on them. And, say the Pollyannas, it's actually healthy that the Democratic rivals test each other in combat now. It means that the eventual winner will be battle-hardened, their hide thick enough to repel anything McCain and the Republicans hurl their way. After all, if Obama can't beat Clinton - or vice-versa - then how could they hope to beat McCain?

But put down the rose-coloured glasses and another view is possible. For the Clinton camp is sure to conclude that it won on Tuesday by going negative, setting out to rob Obama of his halo. Clinton attacked him for his links to a slum landlord now on trial in Chicago, his apparent double-talk on the North American Free Trade Agreement and, most arrestingly, with a TV commercial featuring sleeping children, which suggested that Obama was simply too inexperienced to deal with a 3am call to the White House warning of a foreign crisis.

Even if Obama had a good response to the TV ad - noting that when the "red phone" rang for Hillary in 2003, asking whether America should invade Iraq, she gave the wrong answer - he was clearly knocked off his stride by the Clinton barrage and by the intensified press scrutiny that came with it. That was bad news for him, but it's also bad news for the party as a whole. The ringing phone ad was the kind of scare commercial Republicans habitually run against Democrats, its tone similar to the cold war "bear in the woods" ad Ronald Reagan used to crush Walter Mondale in 1984. If Obama is the eventual nominee, McCain will simply have to hit rewind and play it back as his own. The same is true of Hillary's declaration that she and McCain both have long records of national security experience - while all Obama has is "one speech".

Until now, Obama has avoided hitting back in kind - but now, almost an underdog once more, he may have to. That will mean weeks of hand-to-hand combat over "ethics and disclosure and law firms and real estate deals", in the words of Obama strategist David Axelrod. It will mean dredging up Hillary Clinton's Arkansas past as well as probing into the sources of the Clintons' current fortune. Why, for example, has Hillary refused to release her tax return? Obama can start dismantling Hillary's talk of "experience", based on her eight years living in the White House: does that make Laura Bush qualified to be president?

Such negative campaigning would not only taint Obama, perhaps fatally undermining his claim to embody a new kind of politics; it would also contaminate the entire Democratic effort. Whoever emerges as the nominee will be damaged goods. Republicans will have been handed their attack lines for November and, worse, the Democratic party will have been plunged into a bitterness that may prove impossible to heal in time. An early warning of that came in Tuesday's exit polls: now only four in 10 Democrats say they'll be satisfied with the nominee, whoever it is. A month ago it was seven in 10. That suggests a sullen, defeated chunk of the Democratic faithful will slink off the battlefield come the autumn rather than fight for the winner. If there is a protracted legal battle over the status of delegates from Michigan and - you guessed it - Florida, excluded for breaking party rules but whose inclusion would favour Hillary, then bitterness will turn into toxicity.

But that is not the gloomiest thought. For Democrats could be facing a choice between a woman who can win the party nomination but not the presidency and a man who could win the presidency but not his party's nomination. Start with Hillary: it's easy to work out how she could end up as the Democratic standard-bearer. She might win enough over coming weeks to make the delegate count close and she'll brag that she bagged all the big prizes, the New Yorks and Californias, while Obama only got the minnow states. Then it comes down to those party chieftains, the superdelegates who will wield the casting votes. In that contest, twisting arms and calling in long-owed favours, the Clintons would surely beat the newcomer Obama.

Yet not many would bet on Hillary, once nominated, beating McCain. Sure, she has proved her extraordinary resilience. But McCain trumps her on both
experience and national security. And the simple presence of her name on the ballot would unite and galvanise Republicans more effectively than anything McCain could say or do himself.

Obama by contrast could reframe the entire contest, presenting McCain as, yes, a great hero - but from an era that has passed. He could tie him to George Bush, running pictures of yesterday's White House endorsement, branding them partners in the disastrous "Bush-McCain" war on Iraq. And Obama has showed that he can bring in the young, independent and suburban voters that Democrats need to win.

Yet to have that chance he has to first win the nomination, and that might be harder for him than would be winning the presidency itself. Going negative erodes his defining positive message; doing nothing allows Hillary to paint him as weak, potential snack-food for the waiting wolves of the Republican party. If it comes down to a stalemate to be settled by the Democratic establishment, he begins with an in-built disadvantage.

So this is the Democrats' plight. In a year that should be theirs, they are caught between a potential winner who can't seem to win - and a probable loser who just refuses to lose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/06/uselections2008.usa1

Agree with all of this.
 
The thing is though Obama is on the whole winning the Republican leaning states, virtually the entire mid-west and great plains states are going for him whilst the traditional democratic power bases are going Clinton- if he is not first choice amongst democrats within powerful states then what does that say about his durability?



Hmmmm is that how it happened?


Actually, it's slightly more complicated in each state situation. Almost every state has a story about Hillary's people pulling some kind of underhanded stunt to disuade an Obama voter from getting his/her vote in. (Mostly in caucus situations)
 
interesting that many articles always imply that Obama will bring in young voters. will he?

young people are historically reluctant to get out and vote.
 
interesting that many articles always imply that Obama will bring in young voters. will he?

young people are historically reluctant to get out and vote.

I wonder that too. We see lots of young people parading around towns, cities, and college campuses for Obama with signs of "change." But come November are these individuals going to really wake up early from their drunken, stoned state and vote? If they are, will they do this for the witch if she is the Democratic nominee or will the young people simply stay in bed?
 
I wonder that too. We see lots of young people parading around towns, cities, and college campuses for Obama with signs of "change." But come November are these individuals going to really wake up early from their drunken, stoned state and vote? If they are, will they do this for the witch if she is the Democratic nominee or will the young people simply stay in bed?

thanks. From my recollections, this talk of the influence of young voters has been banded about the last few elections. As you said, we always see lots of young people at the rallies and on tv waving placards and such but they don;t seem to turn out on voting day. Personally, I think Hillary would mobilize more votes from women than Obama would from a co-ed mix of young voters.

That said, I think the election is McCain's to lose, no matter who the deomcrats choose.
 
I wonder that too. We see lots of young people parading around towns, cities, and college campuses for Obama with signs of "change." But come November are these individuals going to really wake up early from their drunken, stoned state and vote? If they are, will they do this for the witch if she is the Democratic nominee or will the young people simply stay in bed?

you undersetimate the commitment of young people in this election....they truly see this as a movement....when Obama is the nominee...the election will be won by the Dems....

remember you said Obama would only appeal to minorities....

this election is the Dems to lose...which they will if the superdelegates go against the will of the voters....which they wont....

...as for the women's vote...if the nomination is decided based on the pledged delegates and popular vote...which is unlikely to be at variance...unless Hillary runs up ridiculous votes....which is highly unlikely.....
there wont be a big backlash...


but if Obama is overturned by the superdelegates...as I said unlikely...but if that happens it wont be just the black vote that stays home...the young people will do so to....and both these blocks will be lost to the party for a generation.....


Obama v McCain in November...
 
The committment you speak of has been touted by the media in many previous elections. In those cases, the young simply didn't turn up, even with P. Diddy urging them to do so.

What has changed that they will do so now?
 
you undersetimate the commitment of young people in this election....they truly see this as a movement....when Obama is the nominee...the election will be won by the Dems....

remember you said Obama would only appeal to minorities....

this election is the Dems to lose...which they will if the superdelegates go against the will of the voters....which they wont....

...as for the women's vote...if the nomination is decided based on the pledged delegates and popular vote...which is unlikely to be at variance...unless Hillary runs up ridiculous votes....which is highly unlikely.....
there wont be a big backlash...


but if Obama is overturned by the superdelegates...as I said unlikely...but if that happens it wont be just the black vote that stays home...the young people will do so to....and both these blocks will be lost to the party for a generation.....


Obama v McCain in November...

You still insist pledged delegates = the people, do you? :rolleyes:

Many superdelegates have already pledged their support, so you think the people who voted for whichever candidate because of endorsements will be happy with those superdelegates switching sides?
 
You still insist pledged delegates = the people, do you? :rolleyes:

Many superdelegates have already pledged their support, so you think the people who voted for whichever candidate because of endorsements will be happy with those superdelegates switching sides?

pleged...pleged..pleged Cal....oh bugger...what dont you understand????

not talking of the supers.....those who switched...did so because of their voters....

the reason Hillary is still marginally ahead is because no one including herself ever saw the Obama phenom coming....when the primaries started...
 
The committment you speak of has been touted by the media in many previous elections. In those cases, the young simply didn't turn up, even with P. Diddy urging them to do so.

What has changed that they will do so now?


the commitment is nothing to do with bollocks media.......

this is a movement....I cant explain it myself....

btw...yesterday Obama got another 4 million...in a single day from donors...talk about commitment....

bye bye Whitewater....
 
pleged...pleged..pleged Cal....oh bugger...what dont you understand????

not talking of the supers.....those who switched...did so because of their voters....

the reason Hillary is still marginally ahead is because no one including herself ever saw the Obama phenom coming....when the primaries started...

The pledged delegate is clearly not directly proportional to the number of voter. Do you agree?
 
the commitment is nothing to do with bollocks media.......

this is a movement....I cant explain it myself....

btw...yesterday Obama got another 4 million...in a single day from donors...talk about commitment....

bye bye Whitewater....

the bollocks media hasn't changed, they've always been and will continue to be as such.

I really don't see young people marching off in droves to vote for Obama come November, there's college football and frat parties to be had. Nothing you have noted here indicates this election will be any different, in fact I expect voter turnout to be less than average.

As for the 4 million, young people don't contribute to political campaigns. they have no money, and those that do tend to vote for the GOP.
 
the bollocks media hasn't changed, they've always been and will continue to be as such.

I really don't see young people marching off in droves to vote for Obama come November, there's college football and frat parties to be had. Nothing you have noted here indicates this election will be any different, in fact I expect voter turnout to be less than average.

As for the 4 million, young people don't contribute to political campaigns. they have no money, and those that do tend to vote for the GOP.

we'll agree to disagree then....

I did not say the 4 million was from students....that is the commitment of the 'movement'
 
...are you suggesting the Dems change the rules so 'i wont tell you where I got my money Hillary' can win?

No, it seems that you're suggesting that they should get rid of superdelegates (well, award them proportionally to pledged delegates) so that Barack "One Speech" Obama can win.
 
:nono: No, I stated he would bring more blacks to the voting booth based simply on skin color. Thus increasing his chances of winning the popular election.

and we all know how much the popular vote counts for when running against the Repulican Party...
 
It is scandalous how the Republicans have no consistency with regarding to giving out delegates- the only reason McCain is now the nominee elect is because on Super Tuesday he won 9 of 21 states in play that night, those 9 and those 9 alone give out delegates on a winner-takes-all basis, McCain only one California by six points but took home 149 delegates to Romney's 6 (superdelegates included).

Surely this is something that should be decided federally.
 
It is scandalous how the Republicans have no consistency with regarding to giving out delegates- the only reason McCain is now the nominee elect is because on Super Tuesday he won 9 of 21 states in play that night, those 9 and those 9 alone give out delegates on a winner-takes-all basis, McCain only one California by six points but took home 149 delegates to Romney's 6 (superdelegates included).

Surely this is something that should be decided federally.

Hillary would be ahead if the Dems had the same strange rules...