U.S. Presidential Race: Official Thread

Obama or McCain/Democrat or Republican..you decide

  • McCain

    Votes: 14 7.5%
  • Obama

    Votes: 173 92.5%

  • Total voters
    187
  • Poll closed .
Hillary and her George Wallace Campaign Playbook have gotten beyond pathetic.

Because she can't attack him on policy grounds she does everything else imaginable.

This while calling a press conference on Saturday to say "shame on you" because he pointed out that during her husband's regime (you know, the one where she got all of that "experience" she's been bragging about) she wholeheartedly supported Bill's getting NAFTA passed.

The sooner they and their hate politics are finished the better.

I'd never vote for Obama because I don't even remotely like a lot of his policies, but he is an honourable man and represents the beginning of the post-racial era in American politics. It couldn't come sooner, and at a better time.

I was worried (a lot) about him being too inexperienced and lightweight to be president. I placed him firmly in the clueless "haircut" category - in the John Edwards/Charlie Crist mold. In recent months he has shown that he has a better grasp of some of the issues (from a leftist pov, mind you) than she does.

I look forward to Obama and McCain actually talking politics instead of whispering about imaginary affairs, spreading false religious bigotry and fueling wild paranoia. They're running to try to make America better. She's running to try to make herself a monarch.
 
Hillary and her George Wallace Campaign Playbook have gotten beyond pathetic.

Because she can't attack him on policy grounds she does everything else imaginable.

This while calling a press conference on Saturday to say "shame on you" because he pointed out that during her husband's regime (you know, the one where she got all of that "experience" she's been bragging about) she wholeheartedly supported Bill's getting NAFTA passed.

The sooner they and their hate politics are finished the better.

I'd never vote for Obama because I don't even remotely like a lot of his policies, but he is an honourable man and represents the beginning of the post-racial era in American politics. It couldn't come sooner, and at a better time.

I was worried (a lot) about him being too inexperienced and lightweight to be president. I placed him firmly in the clueless "haircut" category - in the John Edwards/Charlie Crist mold. In recent months he has shown that he has a better grasp of some of the issues (from a leftist pov, mind you) than she does.

I look forward to Obama and McCain actually talking politics instead of whispering about imaginary affairs, spreading false religious bigotry and fueling wild paranoia. They're running to try to make America better. She's running to try to make herself a monarch.


good post jason...
 
This is going completely to format so far. Hillary and Bill get to go out and shake their fingers and scold people. Nader is going to come in and screw yet another Dem. McCain is showing he is all words with his lobbyists on staff. Got to love this countrys system. If we could just have some of the brawls on the floor of the house like some countries do I'd be extatic.
 
is it just me, or do other people also not get why the obama pic is a big deal?
 
Land deal 'mistake' piles the pressure on Barack Obama

James Bone in New York and Dominic Kennedy in London


A British-Iraqi billionaire lent millions of dollars to Barack Obama's fundraiser just weeks before an imprudent land deal that has returned to haunt the presidential contender, an investigation by The Times discloses.

The money transfer raises the question of whether funds from Nadhmi Auchi, one of Britain’s wealthiest men, helped Mr Obama buy his mock Georgian mansion in Chicago.

A company related to Mr Auchi, who has a conviction for corruption in France, registered the loan to Mr Obama's bagman Antoin "Tony" Rezko on May 23 2005. Mr Auchi says the loan, through the Panamanian company Fintrade Services SA, was for $3.5 million.

Three weeks later, Mr Obama bought a house on the city's South Side while Mr Rezko's wife bought the garden plot next door from the same seller on the same day, June 15.

Mr Obama says he never used Mrs Rezko's still-empty lot, which could only be accessed through his property. But he admits he paid his gardener to mow the lawn.

Mrs Rezko, whose husband was widely known to be under investigation at the time, went on to sell a 10-foot strip of her property to Mr Obama seven months later so he could enjoy a bigger garden.

Mr Obama now admits his involvement in this land deal was a “boneheaded mistake”.

Mrs Rezko’s purchase and sale of the land to Mr Obama raises many unanswered questions.

It is unclear how Mrs Rezko could have afforded the downpayment of $125,000 and a $500,000 mortgage for the original $625,000 purchase of the garden plot at 5050 South Greenwood Ave.

In a sworn statement a year later, Mrs Rezko said she got by on a salary of $37,000 and had $35,000 assets. Mr Rezko told a court he had "no income, negative cash flow, no liquid assets, no unencumbered assets [and] is significantly in arrears on many of his obligations."

Mrs Rezko, whose husband goes on trial on unrelated corruption charges in Chicago on March 3, refused to answer questions about the case when she spoke by telephone to The Times.

Asked if she used money from her husband to buy the land next to Mr Obama's house, she said: "I can't answer these questions, I'm sorry."

Asked how long she and her husband had known Mr Auchi, she replied: "I will not be able to answer this question."

Mr Auchi's lawyer, asked whether the Fintrade Services loan was used to buy the land which became Mr Obama's garden, stated: "No, not as far as my client is aware."

Mr Auchi's links with Mr Rezko are a new political headache for Mr Obama, the charismatic Illinois senator vying to become America’s first African-American president.

Hillary Clinton has sought to make Mr Rezko, who has bankrolled Mr Obama's political career since his first run for the Illinois state senate in the mid-1990s, into an election issue by calling him a "slum landlord" in a televised debate. She has repeatedly suggested that Mr Obama has effectively not been "vetted" by media scrutiny and will not withstand "the Republican attack machine".

Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr Obama, told The Times: “The bottom line is Obama does not recall ever meeting him [Mr Auchi].”

The house-and-garden deal raised questions about whether Mr Rezko, a property developer and fast-food restauranteur, made it possible for the Obamas to purchase a mansion they could otherwise not afford.

Mrs Rezko paid the asking price for the garden but the Obamas bought the house for $1.65 million, - $300,000 less than the asking price. The sellers deny they offered the Obamas a discount on the house because the garden had fetched full price from Mrs Rezko.

Mr Rezko has since been indicted for allegedly scheming to pressure companies seeking business with the state of Illinois for kickbacks and contributions to the governor Rod Blagojevich's campaign. He goes on trial on March 3.

A prosecution document filed last month alleged that a "political candidate" - identified by the Chicago Sun-Times as Mr Obama - received a $10,000 campaign contribution from what is said to be a $250,000 kickback in the corruption case. That means Mr Obama's name could figure in Mr Rezko's trial, although he is not accused of any wrongdoing.

Mr Obama insists he never used his office to do favours for Mr Rezko but admits that, as an Illinois state senator, he once wrote letters to housing officials urging them to provide money in support of a proposed apartment building for elderly people which Mr Rezko wanted to build.

Mr Obama has publicly sought to atone for his closeness to Mr Rezko, paying $150,000 to charity to distance himself from a man accused of political corruption.

The spotlight fell on Mr Rezko's ties to Mr Auchi last month when the Chicago businessman was thrown in jail for violating his bail terms by failing to declare a different $3.5 million loan from the British billionaire, made in April 2007. Prosecutors feared Mr Rezko, who travels widely in the Middle East, might flee to a country without an extradition treaty such as his birthplace of Syria.

Mr Auchi was convicted of corruption, given a suspended sentence and fined £1.4 million in France in 2003 for his part in the Elf affair, described as the biggest political and corporate scandal in post-war Europe. He, in a statement from his media lawyers, claims he is appealing against the sentence.

Mr Auchi founded his Luxembourg-based General Mediterranean Holding (GMH) in 1979, a year before he left Iraq. He says that he did business with his native country when it was considered a friend of the West but ceased to trade with the late Saddam Hussein's regime once sanctions were imposed after the invasion of Kuwait.

Mr Rezko has told a court that Mr Auchi is a "close friend." Mr Auchi's lawyer told The Times: "It is untrue that my client and Mr Rezko are 'close friends'. Mr Auchi first met Mr Rezko after the 2003 Iraq war and they have a business relationship."

Mr Rezko and Mr Auchi have been partners in a pizzeria business in the Mid-West and a major 62-acre land development in Riverside Park in Chicago.

According to court documents, Mr Rezko's lawyer said his client had "longstanding indebtedness" to Mr Auchi's GMH. By June 2007 he owed it $27.9 million.

Under a Loan Forgiveness Agreement described in court, Mr Auchi lent Mr Rezko $3.5 million in April 2005 and $11 million in September 2005, as well as the $3.5 million transferred in April 2007.

That agreement provided for the outstanding loans to be "forgiven" in return for a stake in the 62-acre Riverside Park development.

A posting last week on a GMH-owned website, middle-east-online.com, portrayed Mr Auchi as a Middle Eastern "Donald Trump" with a global business construction empire.

Mr Auchi visited the United States in 2004. Pictures show him meeting Emil Jones, the president of the Illinois state senate, an ally of Mr Obama, a former state senator.

Both Mr Auchi and Mr Obama say they have no memory of meeting each other. But, according to a source, the two may have had a brief encounter at the Four Seasons Hotel in Chicago where Mr Auchi’s visit was being honoured with a dinner attended by the Governor when Mr Obama, coincidentally in the hotel, dropped in.

An aide to Mr Obama said he did attend an event at the Four Seasons at which Mr Rezko was present but does not remember meeting Mr Auchi. "He shook a lot of hands and met a lot of people," the aide said. "We do not remember individual people."

Prosecutors say that, after Mr Auchi was unable to enter the United States in 2005, Mr Rezko approached the US State Department to get him a visa and apparently asked "certain Illinois government officials to do the same." Mr Obama denies he was approached. Mr Auchi's lawyer has emphasised to The Times that it would be entirely false to imply that money had been lent by GMH to Mr Rezko in return for Mr Rezko seeking to assist Mr Auchi to obtain a visa. The two men's relationship, the lawyer stressed, was a busines s one.

Mr Auchi's lawyer said the purpose of the Fintrade Services loan was to "assist the financial position" of a pizzeria company called AR Pizza, in which GMH held a shareholding. He said the loan had since been repaid in the form of a greater stake in the Chicago 62-acre land project.

AR Pizza has since become a defendant in a civil lawsuit by the Papa John's pizzeria chain, which alleges that it continued to operate a string of former Papa John's franchises under the name "Papa Tony's" without permission.

Mr Auchi's lawyer said: "My client played no part in the management and/or day to day running of AR Pizza, the GMH Group being an entirely passive investor in the company. Further, there was no need as a mimimum return on the investment was guaranteed. As to the court proceedings, my client is not a party to these. He denies any wrongdoing in relation to his involvement in AR Pizza."

Mr Rezko was also a major fundraiser for Governor Blagojevich. The governor's chief fundraiser Christopher Kelly, who also served as his gambling adviser, is fighting tax charges related to betting losses. The Associated Press reported that last month Mr Auchi's conglomerate also gave a loan to Mr Kelly secured on a Nevada land deal which the governor’s bagman was involved in.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3433485.ece
 
that Obama pic is been shown for what reason?
probably the same reason that the Clinton campaign staffer sent an email around saying he was Muslim. That worked to some degree as one of my not too smart neighbours thought he was Muslim, which he's not.

Quite a few folks down here in GA think he is Muslim because of those crap emails that circulate around. All one has to do is check wikipedia, snopes.com, or oh about a million web hits to find out he's a Christian, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ. I've had one clue tell me that this is strictly a cover and he's a radical muslim. :lol:

Anyhow, enjoy the vid clip below... we need a good laugh during political campaigns.

 
Quite a few folks down here in GA think he is Muslim because of those crap emails that circulate around. All one has to do is check wikipedia, snopes.com, or oh about a million web hits to find out he's a Christian, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ. I've had one clue tell me that this is strictly a cover and he's a radical muslim. :lol:

Anyhow, enjoy the vid clip below... we need a good laugh during political campaigns.



If I set up an organisation dedicated to proving he's a radical Muslim and asked for donations, do you think we could buy back United from the Glazers by November?
 
If I set up an organisation dedicated to proving he's a radical Muslim and asked for donations, do you think we could buy back United from the Glazers by November?

Prefer an organization to prove that an alien being lives inside Hillary's head. Think you'll get more donations for that.
 

Clinton can hardly play the moral high-ground on land deals, can she?

Jim Guy Tucker, Clinton's chosen successor in Arkansas, went to prison for his involvement in their deals; the McDougals as well.

Meanwhile, Clinton hid billing records which proved she worked for the corporation that ran the project in order to cover for her perjury in front of the Grand Jury investigating it.

Pot. Kettle. Clinton.
 
:lol: Why do political elections always feel like trying to choose the lesser of two evils?

Because the only people who ever run for the top jobs have to do a lot of murky things to get into a position to run. If we accept that all politicians, just like all people, are corruptable and focus on their policies they are promoting things would be a lot easier.
 
Why do political elections always feel like trying to choose the lesser of two evils?

If politicians are too good and keep their hands clean, they will fail to protect us; but if they have no qualms about commiting such acts as murder and torture, they are persons that shouldn't be given power over us. (Michael Walzer)
 
What about the big debate tonight?

Is it finished? What's the verdict?
 
Is it only me that looks at Obama and sees Tony Blair mk.ii?
 
If you watch them and view 'Obama experience' they show a video clip of Clinton taking the absolute piss out of Obama and his reliance on oratory- they (NBC) luaghed it off as a mistake but I'm more cynical than that, but would they have done that deliberately?
 
Is it only me that looks at Obama and sees Tony Blair mk.ii?

:lol: First time I read your post I thought you meaning he was a mix of Blair and MLK hahaha, I think he will be a bad choice tbh he has some good ideas, but is more rhetoric than anything
 
Clinton and Obama have a Musharraf type moment.

When during last night's debate in Clevland it came to naming the Russian president to be, Hillary stumbled over the name and Obama merely referred to Dmitry Medvedev as "him".

Seeing as Hillary didn't exactly ace it either, it is unlikely that she'll try and get some mileage out of it, however McCain will have been watching with some interest no doubt.

You can see him trying to back Obama [assuming he wins out] into a corner and really testing him on foregin policy issues when the debates come round. Though he'll be better briefed by that stage you would expect.
 
All i can tell you is that they were both wearing black, well that's what i heard.

There will have to have been some needle though surely.

A snoozer.

He won on style, she won on substance (and only juuust).

A goalless draw between LFC and Bolton in which most of the crowd has slit their wrists before the half hour mark.

A point is good enough for him, she needed a lot more.
 
Anyway this fight between Hillary and Obama is getting stupid now. the only one gaining anything from this is McCain. McCain vs Obama please.
 
Hillary was very vicious during the Ohio debate. I felt Obama scored more points than her as he handled himself in a very gentlemanly way. He keeps mentioning the similarities between Clinton and him, only for Hillary to rip him apart the next sentence.

Hillary wants to win it at all cost at the expense of spliting the Democratic party and giving McCain plenty of ammunition. Obama is winning, will win and should win the ticket to contest at the White House.

The top guys of the Democratic party should cut Clinton out of the race before it becomes a farce. As shown in the debate, Obama has more chance going against McCain than Hillary does, especially in the issue of Iraq.
 
Hillary and her George Wallace Campaign Playbook have gotten beyond pathetic.

Because she can't attack him on policy grounds she does everything else imaginable.

This while calling a press conference on Saturday to say "shame on you" because he pointed out that during her husband's regime (you know, the one where she got all of that "experience" she's been bragging about) she wholeheartedly supported Bill's getting NAFTA passed.

The sooner they and their hate politics are finished the better.

I'd never vote for Obama because I don't even remotely like a lot of his policies, but he is an honourable man and represents the beginning of the post-racial era in American politics. It couldn't come sooner, and at a better time.

I was worried (a lot) about him being too inexperienced and lightweight to be president. I placed him firmly in the clueless "haircut" category - in the John Edwards/Charlie Crist mold. In recent months he has shown that he has a better grasp of some of the issues (from a leftist pov, mind you) than she does.

I look forward to Obama and McCain actually talking politics instead of whispering about imaginary affairs, spreading false religious bigotry and fueling wild paranoia. They're running to try to make America better. She's running to try to make herself a monarch.

I don't really affiliate myself as a democrat or a republican, lefty or a righty. I am much more a central kind of guy. A lefty that leans right or a righty that leans left. I see that both parties have good ideas and they both have bad idea's and they are so polarized that they are almost always forced into a corner when one side comes out with a good idea.

How I vote will also be difficult.

I like McCain because he comes across as a no bullshit kind of guy. He is practical and he thinks about the consequences of something not along party lines but along the lines of someone who is rational.

I like Obama because he is fresh and possibly untainted by the cynicism of long time politicians. He is straying far from the long time plotted course of American foreign policy and rhetoric and he is doing this because it makes sense.

I honestly think that this country will be in much better shape with either of those two fellows in charge.

Or maybe I won't vote and I'll move back to Canada where we have 35 different parties each for your particular shade of communism of fascism! ;p
 
Obama victory will prolong US racial divide, says British equality chief Trevor Phillips

One of Britain’s most influential black figures today accused Barack Obama of cynically exploiting America’s racial divide and gave warning that he could prolong, rather than heal the rift.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, claimed that the Democratic front-runner would ultimately disappoint the African-American community and dismissed the notion that he would be "the harbinger of a post-racial America" if he becomes the country’s first black President.

Writing in Prospect, the monthly current affairs magazine, Mr Phillips suggested that guilt over transatlantic slavery was behind Mr Obama’s support from middle class whites.

"If Obama can succeed, then maybe they can imagine that [Martin Luther] King's post-racial nirvana has arrived. A vote for Obama is a pain-free negation of their own racism. So long as they don't have to live next door to him; Obama has yet to win convincingly in white districts adjacent to black communities," he wrote.

Mr Phillips compared Mr Obama to Bill Cosby and Oprah Winfrey, prominent black “bargainers” – those who strike a deal with white America not to make an issue of historical racism if their own race is not used against them.

But, in a warning to the Democratic candidate, he added that Cosby now cut a “sad and lonely figure” because he had abandoned the moral weapon used by figures such as Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and Jesse Jackson in insisting that “in the end, salvation for blacks won’t depend on the actions of whites.”

"In truth, Obama may be helping to postpone the arrival of a post-racial America and I think he knows it," Mr Phillips wrote. "If he wins, the cynicism may be worth it to him and his party. In the end he is a politician and a very good one: his job is to win elections."

He added: "If he fulfils the hopes of whites, he must disappoint blacks – and vice versa."

Mr Phillips said that there was no “British Obama” in part because the black British community was much smaller and therefore less likely to produce such high-achievers, and because “Black Britons can't bring centuries of white guilt to bear with the devastating impact that African-Americans have done for two generations”.

The equality chief, a former Labour politician and broadcaster said he did not expect Mr Obama ultimately to win the Democratic nomination, although he conceded it was possible. However, if he did come to power, Mr Obama would not emulate JFK, he predicted, but Bill Clinton, with all the "charm, skill and ruthless cynicism" that entailed.

Mr Phillips is no stranger to controversy, having drawn criticism for past comments on multiculturalism in British society. Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, once said he was a prime candidate for the far right British National Party and his appointment to the CEHR was bitterly opposed by a number of black organisations.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3451323.ece

What a twat.
 
I don't really affiliate myself as a democrat or a republican, lefty or a righty. I am much more a central kind of guy. A lefty that leans right or a righty that leans left. I see that both parties have good ideas and they both have bad idea's and they are so polarized that they are almost always forced into a corner when one side comes out with a good idea.

How I vote will also be difficult.

I like McCain because he comes across as a no bullshit kind of guy. He is practical and he thinks about the consequences of something not along party lines but along the lines of someone who is rational.

I like Obama because he is fresh and possibly untainted by the cynicism of long time politicians. He is straying far from the long time plotted course of American foreign policy and rhetoric and he is doing this because it makes sense.

I honestly think that this country will be in much better shape with either of those two fellows in charge.

Or maybe I won't vote and I'll move back to Canada where we have 35 different parties each for your particular shade of communism of fascism! ;p

I would say that both the Democrats and Republicans are on the right.

American "left" would still be far right here in Norway.
 
he is an honourable man and represents the beginning of the post-racial era in American politics. It couldn't come sooner, and at a better time ...... I look forward to Obama and McCain actually talking politics

In an Obama - McCain Election, do you really think the USA will be able to still be in its dream. Can it collectively arrive on Election day and vote with its heart? Or will it blink and revert to stereotype and post a huge landslide in favour of the Republicans?

So many times in history, when new leaders showed hope and new promises, people all get swept away, yet in the final moment, the collective will just has a panic attack.

I pray America shows the world that it is great, that it does deserve its premier status as a beacon of hope and progress. Obama gives them the possibility of global redemption. If God really does bless America, Obama will win ... but my realistic side tells me the dream will be violently punctured on D-Day.
 
In an Obama - McCain Election, do you really think the USA will be able to still be in its dream. Can it collectively arrive on Election day and vote with its heart? Or will it blink and revert to stereotype and post a huge landslide in favour of the Republicans?

So many times in history, when new leaders showed hope and new promises, people all get swept away, yet in the final moment, the collective will just has a panic attack.

I pray America shows the world that it is great, that it does deserve its premier status as a beacon of hope and progress. Obama gives them the possibility of global redemption. If God really does bless America, Obama will win ... but my realistic side tells me the dream will be violently punctured on D-Day.

What if one votes with one's heart and votes for McCain?

The point is that race is a total non-issue, something that has not happened in previous campaigns between whites, much less between a white man and a black man.

The words "hope" and "progress" are all fine and well, but what hopes for what and what progress towards what?

The great thing about this election is that we will be able to talk about that, and not about hate and fearmongering. You sound more like the old-fashioned demogaugers that Clinton represents than either McCain or Obama.

America is going to get a chance to choose based on differences in actual policies and plans, something which has not happened in 20 years or more. Because of that, once and for all identity politics will be shattered no matter who wins.

Whether Europe likes our choice I really don't give a crap. We won the right to chose our own leaders over 200 years ago, thank you.

Oh, and God doesn't exist.
 
The great thing about this election is that we will be able to talk about that, and not about hate and fearmongering. .

If it's McCain vs Obama, you can bet that Republicans will be fearmongering regarding Terrorism and that Obama is too soft to handle it.
 
The great thing about this election is that we will be able to talk about that, and not about hate and fearmongering. You sound more like the old-fashioned demogaugers that Clinton represents than either McCain or Obama.

This is my point exactly... what happens when I am white fence sitting republican sympathiser (this group decided the 2001 election) ... I now think it is time for the best debate to win, that it is policy and values that should decide. And you know what, its this Obama chap who says the right things, who I think can be the platform for the future. SO off I pop, down to the voting booth on election day and just as I am about to vote ... I blink ... ... and realise that he is black. And that if he wins, a black man will be in charge of America. And no matter how cosmopolitan I am, how ever many friends of colour that I have, I just cant do it, It scares me. SO I vote McCain.

Its what the Republicans are dreaming of and will use every sophisticated marketing technique to plant that seed of doubt.

In the end, policy will not win this next election.


Whether Europe likes our choice I really don't give a crap. We won the right to chose our own leaders over 200 years ago, thank you.

Trust me, its not about Europe that you should be worried about. I would have hoped that post 9/11, you yanks would have learnt that it is indeed very important what other countries think about you and your leaders!!


Oh, and God doesn't exist

Respect your personal opinion ... but on this particular issue it really does not matter! I know this much .... God is very much alive and in existence in US politics! Bush Senior has gone on record as saying that "those who are not God Fearing are not patriots". God provides the backdrop for all your politics.

Great debate!
 
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We know who the Caf adverts want to win!
 
Trust me, its not about Europe that you should be worried about. I would have hoped that post 9/11 you yanks would have learnt that it is indeed very important what other copuntries think about you and your leaders!!
There is also the issue you folks need to be worried about, which is what we and our leaders think about YOUR country.

I concur
 
what do you Yanks make of the democrats talk of threatening to back out of NAFTA?

Electioneering?

tired of being found guilty of not actually honouring free trade agreements, or the power of certain lobby groups (i.e softwood lumber, florida hothouse tomato growers)?

realizing that the agreement meant the American labour force would have to upgrade their educations and finding out that many were incapable (for whatever reason) of doing so and struggling due to manufacturing jobs going to Mexico?

embarassment that the Canadian dollar, after 30 odd years of worthlessness is now worth more than the greenback?