The Positive of Being Rubbish Now

The significance of being rubbish now needs to be juxtaposed on the exact moment we hit rock bottom.

I would argue that we are still very close to the bottom but in the narrow ascendancy
 
podurban2 said:
Yes we need a big overhaul. We need a CM, a DM, a new RB, CB, LW, CF.
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In fairness even under Ole we already knew we definitely needed a DM and a CM because the midfield is rubbish and there were question marks over RB. We strengthened CB with Varane and had tonnes of players for the LW, we signed Ronnie for CF along with Mason.

So arguably we still need what we already knew we needed under Ole. Priority: DM (for the love of god a DM!!!!!) then CM imo. The midfield is so far off the rest of the league, even comparing us to Wolves is night and day as we saw last night.

IMO this team still would see a massive improvement with a single, top-level, DM. It's the one position that can have a positive effect on both your defence and your offence. Start by addressing the holes we knew we had. I honestly believe there is quality in this team that can be brought to life with the right signings and management.
 
TheLord said:
The only positive is that the club will at least sincerely try to get the hottest non-Pep, non-Tuchel, non-Klopp manager in Europe at the moment - Eric ten Hag.
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For the players to not put effort in for him either. Genuinely doesn't matter who we get in as manager. The squad is rotten.
 
This won't be pretty but the positive is it is happening and we're not dragging it out another season or two - Ronaldo, Pogba, Cavani, Lingard, Martial, VdB, Matic, Mata are likely all off by next summer, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more exits as well. For the first time since SAF there is going to be an actual rebuild with a large amount of exits, incoming players and a distinct tactical style being put onto the team. Another bi product which is positive is we will inevitably see more youth coming through in this transition period.
 
we are the worst we have been since saf left. i am all for patience, and letting ralf make changes. but the performances and his management that have lead to those performances have been unbelievably bad. he isn't a manager, simply isn't, but he needs to find a way to improve the performances. we have been playing the worst teams in the league, so his job will get harder and harder.

we can't just get thrashed every week for the next twenty games while he picks a new manager, the squad is too good to allow that to happen. my dream is that ronaldo leaves in jan somehow, and that we can just play a workman like team for the rest of the season, and at least put up a fight if ralf can't get anything out of the big name / highly technical players
 
sillwuka said:
I'm not totally convinced by Rangnick but I'm glad that we now have an outsider who can pass judgement on this set of players without any bias.
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Rangnick the club builder / DOF / Consultant - yes
Rangnick the first team coach / manager - not so sure

Unfortunately he’s being asked to do both roles simultaneously at the moment.

In hindsight perhaps we would have been better leaving Carrick in the former (until the end of the season) and leaving Rangnick to focus on the latter
 
There's a rot in this team that's been there for many years now. Ever since Fergie left, the players felt like they've had more power and they knew that whinging to the press would force the higher ups to sack the manager. Moyes wasn't good enough for sure, but he had no help from the players. Everyone complained about LVGs training methods because they were being made to work a bit harder than absolute zero. Mourinho had the balls to fight against the players but his toxic nature and our weak-willed players was always going to end in disaster. There's no wonder everyone talked about how happy they were under Ole, he was an absolute pushover whose tactics relied heavily on individual brilliance. Must have been paradise for our overpaid divas.

What this club needs to do is not bend to the will of the players. Get rid of the rotten apples who care more about their image than the results and we'll see a change in mentality that can allow strong-willed players to thrive and work together. It's unfortunate that we're going to have to go into yet another rebuild but this has been a massive elephant in the room under multiple managers, there's no easy way to sort it. Ralf's got a huge job on his hands.
 
Lentwood said:
We don't do proper clearouts though because we aren't honest about our players abilities and their limitations.

We started the clearout brilliantly under Solskjaer but ran out of steam when tougher decisions had to be made. Why is Matic still here? Why is Mata still here? Why is Lingard here? Why is Pereira here? Why is Tuanzebe still here? Why is Williams still here? I could go on.

Why are Rashford and Martial on £200K and £250K respectively, doing bugger all? Why do we have one of the best 10/15 GKs in England sat on the bench for two seasons? Why is Pogba still here, toying with the club again? That's a real clearout for me. Get rid of all those, bar maybe Rashford, who I would offer a reduced deal of £150K per week to stay or go.

Then we reverted to type and started buying "stars" again. The early AWB, James, Maguire, Fernandes approach went out the window - say what you like about them but we came 3rd and 2nd with these players who all had something to prove. Then the "names" started arriving again...Cavani, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho...all on massive wages.
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Agree with all that.

Ole's reign will end up being characterised in one particular fashion when in fact the first two years were very good in terms of getting the club on the right track. Then like you say we reverted to type.

Hopefully we now see a strong response in terms of shaping the squad like we had post Mourinho.

If the club does it right they can make this current rubbish a positive.

Step one - stop filling the bench with players we know don't have a future here and aren't trusted to have an impact in the meantime.
 
podurban2 said:
Yes we need a big overhaul. We need a CM, a DM, a new RB, CB, LW, CF.
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Why are we the only big team in the Premier league that constantly needs an overhaul or about 7-8 deadwood selling and replacing with better players. I genuinely can't understand it. We spend a fortune. We can't even say 'it's the manager' either because we chop and change those these days too.

The positive at the moment for me is the hope that eventually we get it right and we get better, that's it.
 
The best positive that I can come up with right now is that I do still believe that there is almost a winning team within this squad. The gaping hole we have in our midfield is so obviously what is holding this team back that one or two strong signings there will improve us immensely. We simply have to hope that a club with our resources can bring in the right players.
 
Marwood said:
Step one - stop filling the bench with players we know don't have a future here and aren't trusted to have an impact in the meantime.
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Exactly. It's ridiculous to pay players £160K to sit on the bench and be a "last resort" type selection.

The role of the Academy should be to fill the bench/squad. Right now, I'd have Bailly out (unreliable) and Menghi as cover. If they are not good enough to be considered 4th choice at 19/20, get them sold for £15/20m and stick a buyback in
 
Lentwood said:
Exactly. It's ridiculous to pay players £160K to sit on the bench and be a "last resort" type selection.

The role of the Academy should be to fill the bench/squad. Right now, I'd have Bailly out (unreliable) and Menghi as cover. If they are not good enough to be considered 4th choice at 19/20, get them sold for £15/20m and stick a buyback in
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Rangnick should be forced to explain why he puts Lingard and VDB on the bench if he never wants to use them, why not put some academy players there.
 
sullydnl said:
The positive I see is that any top level permanent manager we get (Ten Hag, Poch, whoever) will almost certainly want to introduce a high-level, organised press. And if we're going to struggle this badly in moving in that direction (either due to physical or mental limitations within the squad) then I'm glad some of those teething problems are being dumped on the interim manager. Let him deal with as much of the shit as he can.
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The problem is I am starting to wonder if the players are prepared to put in the effort for a manager who wants them to press
 
Ixion said:
Rangnick should be forced to explain why he puts Lingard and VDB on the bench if he never wants to use them, why not put some academy players there.
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Agree with the sentiment but bit harsh to lay that at RRs door. Only just walked through the door so we can hardly hold him accountable for the amount of deadweight we are carrying.

Genuinely think there are only upsides to having the young lads in training and in the Match Day squads. Imagine the intensity of Menghi, Elanga, Garner, Amad, Laird etc...knowing they are one injury or suspension away from being first backup on the bench. I can't believe they would be any worse than Matic, Mata, Lingard. We wouldn't miss those players if they had gone three seasons ago, but here they still are. Why?
 
We shouldn't see the manager after Rangnick as the savior. For all intents and purposes, he may turn out shit and we'll have to change again.
 
I think the positive of being rubbish now means it’s hard for anyone on the board to hide from the fact that there needs to be serious changes in how the football side of the business is ran.

When Ole came in and got a few good results it allowed the powers that be to ignore the issues stick some stooges in the director of football roles and ignore the issues.

The fact that squad is an absolute joke with how imbalanced it is,young players the club have stoped developing, the squad is beyond bloated, we are no way near where our budget and expenditure would imply we should be.

Because of this it shows heads need to role from top to bottom of the club, there is no hiding from this.
 
SER19 said:
Can a loss be a win :lol: That's not what this is.

There's plenty of fallout from last night's performance, one that was so bad it could have been from any time under Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho or Solskjaer at their worst. Among the noise is a somewhat bizarre early turning on the new manager, who has had 5 games, with players who have consistently failed, and who many have argued for months are a terrible squad built by Solskjaer.

The only positive I can take from how stark the last 5 games have been is that we will have no false 'new manager bounce', which we had under Ole. I saw one thread suggesting we should have stayed with Carrick, which would have been exactly the same and left a summer appointment with the same psychological and personnel mess Rangnick inherited.


Being as poor as we are, is laying very bare just how unsuited some of these players are to a more aggressive approach. In his first two summers at Liverpool, not including free transfers or youth team moves, Klopp let 13 players leave. Can anyone imagine Skrtel, Ibe, Lucas, Sakho, Allen or Benteke among Liverpool's recent success? This is the extent of clearout needed it seems, and I say that as someone who argued that Solskjaer had in fact built a good squad. Maybe he had, but what he hadn't built was one remotely suited for the type of football it seems most of us want. (Incidentally, in those two summers, Klopp brought in Mane, Salah, Robertson, Wijnaldum and others. It was a clear and obvious shift in type of player, and that's what is needed)

So my opinion is to write off these 6 months, see them as a blessing that means hopefully a new progressive manager is inheriting a much clearer, calmer set up with all the weak willed and lazy rooted out.

As painful as it is, I'd sooner this than see us fluke a 10 game winning run that continues to mask all our problems. Blaming Rangnick this early would be a very very foolish stance, when given just how different he is from solskjaer, it's so clear that some problems wont change no matter who is in charge.

There is simply no hiding place for some of these players who can't make simple passes or bother to pressure opponents. Don't give them one.
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Spot on post
 
Lentwood said:
We don't do proper clearouts though because we aren't honest about our players abilities and their limitations.

We started the clearout brilliantly under Solskjaer but ran out of steam when tougher decisions had to be made. Why is Matic still here? Why is Mata still here? Why is Lingard here? Why is Pereira here? Why is Tuanzebe still here? Why is Williams still here? I could go on.

Why are Rashford and Martial on £200K and £250K respectively, doing bugger all? Why do we have one of the best 10/15 GKs in England sat on the bench for two seasons? Why is Pogba still here, toying with the club again? That's a real clearout for me. Get rid of all those, bar maybe Rashford, who I would offer a reduced deal of £150K per week to stay or go.

Then we reverted to type and started buying "stars" again. The early AWB, James, Maguire, Fernandes approach went out the window - say what you like about them but we came 3rd and 2nd with these players who all had something to prove. Then the "names" started arriving again...Cavani, Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho...all on massive wages.
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You guys didn't do proper cleaning out , not when the players ole got rid of turn out to be successful somewhere else. I remember Mourinho said "See where they play, how they play, if they play" if you guys can still see them around playing in good club / team , then they aren't deadwood. While the players Mourinho got rid of after LVG era , we no longer know whether they are still exist or not. Remember James Wilson ? Morgan Schneiderlin ? Bastian Schweinsteiger ? Victor Valdes ? If any Ole got rid a wrong set of players and brought wrong set of players too and here you are , struggling.
 
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Ah so getting absolutely turned over at home by the team with the least attacking ability in the prem was a blessing in disguise.

So that's ok then.
 
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