The main criterion: Coaching a team to the level of Klopp and Pep

[Josh 76]

People have very short memories about Pep and Klopp. Yes they were outstanding for a lot of their careers, but questions were being asked about Pep at Bayern when he was getting hammered in the CL and Klopp’s final season at Dortmund was much worse than Poch’s at Spurs. Pep to a lesser extent, but Klopp was not this sought after manger people think he was. He was even Liverpool’s second choice after Ancheloti at the time.

Every manager has a dip. Even Fergie was being question in 2003.

 

[CanadianUtd]

This is by far the best argument as to why Ten Hag would be preferable. Well argued.

Not sure if Pochettino can't build a system that works - but can't argue against that Ten Hag has shown eminent ability to do just this.

Tyty

 

[He'sRaldo]

People forget that all of Pep, Tuchel and especially Klopp played pragmatic football for a period of time too. But it was a ultimately a temporary thing. And in fact, their ability to adapt to various situations by not sticking dogmatically to their initial philosphy, and ultimately come out on top, is commendable.

Regarding Poch, his Spurs team generally scored a lot of goals and had a dangerous attack, with him taking a lot of credit for molding the individuals and collective. If he's who we go for, he's a good option. Regardless of whether he might have been more pragmatic at some points.

 

[adexkola]

People have very short memories about Pep and Klopp. Yes they were outstanding for a lot of their careers, but questions were being asked about Pep at Bayern when he was getting hammered in the CL and Klopp’s final season at Dortmund was much worse than Poch’s at Spurs. Pep to a lesser extent, but Klopp was not this sought after manger people think he was. He was even Liverpool’s second choice after Ancheloti at the time.

Every manager has a dip. Even Fergie was being question in 2003.

Questions were being asked about Pep by casuals and armchair managers. No top club with sensible manaagement has ever been in doubt about Pep, or Fergie, or Klopp, or Tuchel... and the qualities they have, regardless of short term results.

 

[eire-red]

And that’s exactly it. We don’t want good, we want great and exceptional. I don’t prefer a known commodity that can’t stand toe-to-toe with the best managers (track record speaks for itself) as our primary target when there’s someone with a higher ability+ceiling out there.

…and the investment bit, that’s another thing that tips in favour of Ten Hag. Ajax have very limited funding in comparison to even a Tottenham. Ten Hag won’t fall short because of backing as he makes up for it with his intricate and complex style of play. In fact as I’m typing this, it’s another reason why I don’t want Poch over Ten Hag. I don’t want a manager who’ll fall short due to backing/funding. I want someone who’s system and on-pitch play won’t miss a beat regardless of which players are in or out — Ten Hag has a far superior record of showcasing that at Ajax with all of their top players having gone away in the previous few years.

Do you think our squad is capable of adapting to Ten Hag's style? I think we have built a team that would for the most part suit Pochettino.

Pochettino is PL proven, Ten Hag is a much bigger risk. It's not a given that he'll cut it at United, whereas I think Pochettino would be a good fit.

It may be the case that Ten Hag has a higher 'ceiling' as people like to say. But to date his only notable achievements are 2 Dutch titles in his 3 seasons, and ironically being knocked out of the semi's of the CL by Pochettino's Spurs.

I just struggle to take it seriously when I hear people talk about Ten Hag like it's so obvious he's on a different level to any other option out there. He's much more of a risk than Poch, and that doesn't automatically mean there's more upside potential.

 

[DeGea]

Ten Hag for me. I think whenever I reflect on Poch's teams or hear him speak, I don't get that he is a visionary, you know what I mean? He is just a solid manager who is clearly better than most out there but I don't think he will be special. His time at Spurs was the closest for him to break into that "special" category if he had won that Champions League or won a domestic cup etc, but Levy messed it up by not investing. That opportunity for him is gone now, I don't think he'll win the Champions League at PSG either, despite having one of the best squads and almost limitless money. You have to make hay while the sun shines.

For us to claw back our reputation over the last 8 years, we need the next manager to be a revelation, someone truly special akin to Pep, Klopp and Tuchel etc. With Poch, I just cannot see him beating those 3 consistently to re-establish ourselves as a powerhouse. Because that is what we need. Tuchel was actually a bit of a gamble for Abramovich when you look back on it, because he didn't win the Champions League at PSG, and yes he won league titles there but it is Ligue 1 afterall. Abramovich could have gone for someone established like Brendan Rodgers for example but what is the point? You know what you will get, and it won't be good enough to beat Pep/Klopp.

It's almost a bit of a gamble (as Ten Hag might be a total disappointment), but we have no choice, we have to go all in now. You just know what you will get with Poch and it will be good, but not good enough.



Listen to him, you'll know he is worth a punt.

 

[World Game]

That to me automatically includes making a risky appointment. There is obviously no one out there who guarantees this as they are simply the best club managers in the game today, but there are managers who are progressive and proactive in how they want their teams playing. It's pointless to appoint someone who isn't, because that's the level we need to get to.

Whether it is ten Hag, it certainly requires someone with that kind of philosophy. And I'd much rather wait till next summer to appoint someone of that ilk than to see a big name come in now.

We appoint Pochettino and what? We become a more solid 3rd or 4th side, harder to play against, but still relying on individual brilliance in the final third? What's the point? I'd rather the club decide on a progressive vision and if the first appointment doesn't work, they make another in line with that vision. Throughout the players will develop as a better footballing side.

Exactly this. Getting Poch is just resigning ourselves to being 3rd/4th best. We won't be winning league/CL with him while Pep and Klopp are around. Risky appointment with higher ceiling is the way to go.

 

[GMok]

I’d go back to watching Spurs beating Klopp’s Liverpool 4-1 in 2017 if I were you before Liverpool spent all that money. The way Spurs played then was nothing like Mourinho. Pochettino’s Southampton were arguably the most high pressing team in PL history, they overwhelmed opponents on the front foot off the ball. Poch is a Bielsa disciple. Mourinho is meanwhile arguably the least pressing manager in modern football.

Ah, that infamous 4-1 match. But before that, I will suggest to watch the matches between those two teams in the previous season. Where an inferior Liverpool squad beat Tottenham 2-0 at Anfield and Spurs were toothless for most of the match. And that 2-0 win was during Liverpool's worst January run, even worse than last season. At WHL, it was 1-1, which should have gone Liverpool's way if Mane and Coutinho did not miss sitters.

The 4-1 was purely down to Calamity Lovren and Klopp's insistence on playing Lovren and not buying a competent defender. That stubbornness is Klopp's biggest fault. The same thing got his team undone last year when he thought that he can compete with three center-backs.

Pochettino's Spurs is as pragmatic as you can get it from a pressing team, where his team relied more on off the ball pressing to pounce on the opposition's mistakes. That's where he is similar to Mourinho, or specifically Mourinho's first Chelsea team. Tottenham's best position in the league coincided with Dembele's world class showing and Ali and Kane's end product. Once Dembele was out, Tottenham was never challenging. Also, people tend to forget that the best Spurs version could not clear the group stage and bombed out of Europa. Klopp with a distinctly average Liverpool side reached Europa final, and the CL final next year (that was a bit of fluke like Spur's CL final run).

Anyway, I am not here to argue that Pochettino is a bad manager. Not at all, he is very good. But he is below the elite level where Klopp and Pep are at (Pep is the best imo). If he was so good as you implied, he would have at least had a good h2h record against Klopp. He didn't. That 4-1 is the only win he could muster at Tottenham against Liverpool in about 10 matches.

Sorry for my late reply due to my post limit.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

You’re right, it’s a weird narrative that caught on for whatever reason.

People have very short memories about Pep and Klopp. Yes they were outstanding for a lot of their careers, but questions were being asked about Pep at Bayern when he was getting hammered in the CL and Klopp’s final season at Dortmund was much worse than Poch’s at Spurs. Pep to a lesser extent, but Klopp was not this sought after manger people think he was. He was even Liverpool’s second choice after Ancheloti at the time.

Every manager has a dip. Even Fergie was being question in 2003.

It's not really worth the effort to try and reason with the "Pochettino is yesterday's news" crowd.

Pochettino spent five seasons at Spurs, the 6th-biggest team in England with a wage bill that's absolutely dwarfed by the 5 clubs above. He kept them consistently in the top four, finished above each of Guardiola, Conte, Klopp and Mourinho at least once, and he played very good football (the comparisons with Mourinho are absolute garbage: I can only assume United fans have blocked the memory of the four league games in four consecutive seasons where we got played off the park by Spurs).

For some reason, this is spun as him being a "known quantity" who couldn't possibly go higher than 3rd/4th given the reins at a club with literally twice as much money as Tottenham (strongly suspect most people here haven't actually compared the numbers).

Klopp with a distinctly average Liverpool side reached Europa final, and the CL final next year

No, two years later. He wasn't in Europe at all the next year.

 

[GMok]

It's not really worth the effort to try and reason with the "Pochettino is yesterday's news" crowd.

Pochettino spent five seasons at Spurs, the 6th-biggest team in England with a wage bill that's absolutely dwarfed by the 5 clubs above. He kept them consistently in the top four, finished above each of Guardiola, Conte, Klopp and Mourinho at least once, and he played very good football (the comparisons with Mourinho are absolute garbage: I can only assume United fans have blocked the memory of the four league games in four consecutive seasons where we got played off the park by Spurs).

For some reason, this is spun as him being a "known quantity" who couldn't possibly go higher than 3rd/4th given the reins at a club with literally twice as much money as Tottenham (strongly suspect most people here haven't actually compared the numbers).



No, two years later. He wasn't in Europe at all the next year.

Thanks for correcting me. Yes, it was 2017-18 season. My point was that it was pretty unbalanced team, although Liverpool got lucky going to final. Just like Tottenham with Pochettino in 2018-19.

 

[Stacks]

Ten Hag is the man for the job.

His ceiling is much higher than Poch and plays a brand of football we have to transition to in order to compete imo. Yes there are more ways than one to skin a cat but we need a modern approach imo.

If he gets it right here (and if you look at his CL record he definitely can) he could stay as long as he likes and tick the long term appointment box the club (and a lot of the fans) prefer as well.

This. It’s basically Ten Hag or bust.

If we miss out on him, then it’s a given whoever else we bring won’t be able to reach that upper echelon of managerial wonders. Anybody else (maybe apart from Zidane who doesn’t look likely) falls short of that meaning so would United and thus the same story will keep repeating itself.

The Zidane disrespect is unreal. started management in 2016 and won 3 x CL, 2 x La Liga, 2 x Club world cup. it would probably take Ten Haag 15 years to even get a portion of that as its unprecedented. he is the most successful manager of the past 5 years. NUMBER ONE

 

[harms]

Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.

It’s not like Klopp had a ridiculously successful spell at Borussua before hand…

I also like the reasoning that Poch struggled because his team haven’t spent enough and now he’s struggling because his team spent too much. It’s certainly true to an extent but it doesn’t work well as a joint argument.

 

[Waynne]

Wow, that's some statement.
Eric Ten Commandments Hag

Eric 5x2 Hag has the credentials to succeed at United.

I hope then he’s not aware of who United have upfront


(bar Sancho, they run so little compared to the rest of the league it’s pathetic)

If you want to build a pressing team you start with Bruno, Fred, Sancho, Cavani and VD.Beek. Not sure about the other guys. Definitely not Pogba or Martial that's for sure.

 

[Waynne]

I hope then he’s not aware of who United have upfront


(bar Sancho, they run so little compared to the rest of the league it’s pathetic)

If you want to build a pressing team you start with Bruno, Fred, Sancho, Cavani and VD.Beek. Not sure about the other guys. Definitely not Pogba or Martial that's for sure.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Do you think our squad is capable of adapting to Ten Hag's style?

I just struggle to take it seriously when I hear people talk about Ten Hag like it's so obvious he's on a different level to any other option out there.

Yes I do believe Ten Hag can implement his system on the team and the players are capable of adapting to it. If anything, it’s Poch who’s had trouble doing that at PSG with the player personnel there at his disposal / not being able to adapt to it. Ten Hag is the one who’s shown the beat keeps on going with all the roster turnover he’s dealt with at Ajax these past years.

It’s because he is on a different level compared to Poch.

Ten Hag for me. I think whenever I reflect on Poch's teams or hear him speak, I don't get that he is a visionary, you know what I mean? He is just a solid manager who is clearly better than most out there but I don't think he will be special. His time at Spurs was the closest for him to break into that "special" category if he had won that Champions League or won a domestic cup etc, but Levy messed it up by not investing. That opportunity for him is gone now, I don't think he'll win the Champions League at PSG either, despite having one of the best squads and almost limitless money. You have to make hay while the sun shines.

For us to claw back our reputation over the last 8 years, we need the next manager to be a revelation, someone truly special akin to Pep, Klopp and Tuchel etc. With Poch, I just cannot see him beating those 3 consistently to re-establish ourselves as a powerhouse. Because that is what we need. Tuchel was actually a bit of a gamble for Abramovich when you look back on it, because he didn't win the Champions League at PSG, and yes he won league titles there but it is Ligue 1 afterall. Abramovich could have gone for someone established like Brendan Rodgers for example but what is the point? You know what you will get, and it won't be good enough to beat Pep/Klopp.

It's almost a bit of a gamble (as Ten Hag might be a total disappointment), but we have no choice, we have to go all in now. You just know what you will get with Poch and it will be good, but not good enough.



Listen to him, you'll know he is worth a punt.

Excellent post!

The Zidane disrespect is unreal. started management in 2016 and won 3 x CL, 2 x La Liga, 2 x Club world cup. it would probably take Ten Haag 15 years to even get a portion of that as its unprecedented. he is the most successful manager of the past 5 years. NUMBER ONE

I did mention him but it’s unlikely he wants to come here from reports. And even if it came down to Zidane or Ten Hag, I’d go for the latter purely off longevity/sustainability. We know Zidane comes and goes as he pleases and any little thing that bugs him can cause him to leave. It’s a great trait don’t get me wrong but I don’t want the risk of that if it did come down to the 2 (which it won’t because he’s not linked to us anyways). I’d much rather the exceptional manager who’ll stay for 5+ years and build a lasting legacy than the exceptional manager who’ll stay for a couple years. Same reason I want Ten Hag over Poch, the sustainability/long term aspect to it without going into again him being a superior tactician to Poch to begin with.

 

[DRJosh]

The fact that Pep had Zinchenko in the line up against PSG suggests his attention to detail and how he isn't afraid to mix it up when required. That's the sort of manager we need.

 

[Regalia]

Take Ten Hag out of that structured Ajax ecosystem into our Disneyland and he's going to drop down a level. A bit like Messi without Barca and La Liga (Argentina/PSG). Poch, while perhaps not as 'exciting' these days (he was pretty much Ten Hag to the kneejerkers here 3-4 years ago), brings more certainty of being able to work with the dumbasses we have upstairs having done that with Levy for years. Also, just from a quick funny look test, our squad definitely looks a lot more adaptable to Poch's style than it will be to a Ten Hag 'total football' regime. Personally would not have qualms whichever we get, since both are like 10++ levels above Ole but geez, all the Ten Hag echo chambering is getting quite tiresome.

 

[The_Midfielder]

We need to stop comparing klopp and Pep. Klopp is vastly superior. Let’s start there.

You think so? Pep is way ahead for me

 

[The_Midfielder]

I hope then he’s not aware of who United have upfront


(bar Sancho, they run so little compared to the rest of the league it’s pathetic)

But Rashford/LW and Bruno can run and will run to implement a plan.. PSGs front 3 will not run period

 

[RUCK4444]

The Zidane disrespect is unreal. started management in 2016 and won 3 x CL, 2 x La Liga, 2 x Club world cup. it would probably take Ten Haag 15 years to even get a portion of that as its unprecedented. he is the most successful manager of the past 5 years. NUMBER ONE

By all accounts he wants nothing to do with the job and is waiting for the France gig, turning down all clubs in the meantime.

I agree he’s a great option but not for United if he doesn’t want to be here.

 

[Greck]

I don't know where this Ten Haag love in started. He literally plays in a two team league.

it shocks me too. It's not like he's perfect or anything, Ten Haag just hasn't been around long enough to have high profile low points like the other managers. Klopp, Tuchel, they were once the Ten Haag of the football world. After some lowpoints in germany and France this place would have said they weren't good enough. The pendulum here swings too far too fast.

 

[Foxbatt]

Tuesday showed that Ten Hag knows how to change things when things are not going his way. I like the way his team plays always. Now by the end of the CL campaign we would know how good he is even if Ajax goes out. They certainly play an extremely good team football. A lot more than PSG for sure. Yes he does not have any world class players but to get this far in the CL for the current Ajax says a lot about him.
It would be interesting if we have to play against Ajax in the CL.
I certainly prefer him to anyone else right now because he knows how he wants his team to play. Poch had world class players in his side even at Spurs.

 

[Greck]

Questions were being asked about Pep by casuals and armchair managers. No top club with sensible manaagement has ever been in doubt about Pep, or Fergie, or Klopp, or Tuchel... and the qualities they have, regardless of short term results.

the vast majority of fans are casual and armchair managers. Pep was especially berated for only knowing one style of football and only being able to succeed with the best squad in a league. As for the other, Jurgen Flopp anyone? This was even the name of one of the threads on here. He was called a bottler and serial runner up. Tuchel was one of the guys being referred to as hipster managers with some going as far as using his PSG stint as evidence Ole was a better manager.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I agree with the basic stance of the OP.

I would add, though, that in order to get to a position where you can - more or less - comfortably try out various promising managers who may or may not have that cutting edge you need in order to genuinely challenge, you need a foundation in place: you can't keep hiring managers with the job description United have operated with thus far (i.e. managers with a major influence on player recruitment and overall "philosophy").

This in itself is a reason why I'm not thrilled with the prospect of hiring Poch. He seems to want influence, part of what makes United attractive to him (compared to his current job) is - seemingly - that he'd have more control with us. Which is understandable from his point of view - but for me, we should move away from the very "model" which makes us attractive to prospective managers who fancies the idea of building a team on the grand scale.

 

[largelyworried]

I prefer Ten Hag but the idea that Poch isn’t a modern progressive manager is just rubbish. I honestly don't know what people were watching when he was in the Prem.

 

[The Boy]

That to me automatically includes making a risky appointment. There is obviously no one out there who guarantees this as they are simply the best club managers in the game today.

I don't think Guardiola was anyway a risky appointment, he had the reputation as the top club manager when he came to City. Klopp was maybe a bit riskier as he had gone downhill in his last season at Dortmund, but his record at Mainz and Dortmund stood out. So why having a top mnager automatically includes making a risky appointment makes little sense.

Whether it is ten Hag, it certainly requires someone with that kind of philosophy. And I'd much rather wait till next summer to appoint someone of that ilk than to see a big name come in now.

I don't understand this bit, why would you want to wait until the summer to get your manager if a good one was available now, unless you are speaking specifically about Ten Hag. Also I haven' seen anyone yet explain the massive difference between Poch and ETH's approaches. Both like to play an attack orientated style with a high press and with high intensity.

We appoint Pochettino and what? We become a more solid 3rd or 4th side, harder to play against, but still relying on individual brilliance in the final third? What's the point? I'd rather the club decide on a progressive vision and if the first appointment doesn't work, they make another in line with that vision. Throughout the players will develop as a better footballing side.

Why would you become a 3rd or 4th placed side under Poch, this is written and accepted all over the forum as though it is a fact, which is bizarre. Also Poch doesn't rely on individual brilliance at all, his Southampton and Spurs teams were clear well organised units. I haven't watched enough of PSG to see exactly how they pklay, but reading about it the problem seems to be Mbappe, Neymar and Messi play as a separate unit to the rest of team despite his management, rather than as a planned part of it.

I'm not saying Poch would be better than ETH, but I find it odd that Ten Hag is seen as an all conquering hero, who would revolutionise United and turn you into serial winners once again while Poch will get you into the top 4, when all the evidence points to a different outcome!

 

[The Boy]

I prefer Ten Hag but the idea that Poch isn’t a modern progressive manager is just rubbish. I honestly don't know what people were watching when he was in the Prem.

It's a weird accepted fact for lots of posters, based I think on the fact that Poch has been around for a few years so is no longer the bright new upcoming manager. ETH is more of an unknown and people see he ECL results and reckon he can replicate that and build on it at United, which is possibly true, but a much bigger gamble than Poch, in my mind.

 

[BridgeBanter]

The people snubbing their nose at Poch are absolutely ridiculous tbh, almost spoiled like.

It’s the same narrative people tried to paint about Tuchel saying he was a failure at PSG etc. For a decent portion of the last decade Poch had a team that had the 6th highest wage bill routinely challenging for the league and competing against other top 6 teams whose wage bill was significantly higher. Lads we’re talking about Spurs here.

With Poch at the reigns and with the squad and resources that United have they will certainly be capable of challenging Liverpool and City. If people ultimately just want Ten Hag because they like his football philosophy and the overall “make of his jibs” then that’s totally fair. However, the notion that Poch basically resigns United to the role of “also rans” is nonsense.

 

[BridgeBanter]

I don't think Guardiola was anyway a risky appointment, he had the reputation as the top club manager when he came to City. Klopp was maybe a bit riskier as he had gone downhill in his last season at Dortmund, but his record at Mainz and Dortmund stood out. So why having a top mnager automatically includes making a risky appointment makes little sense.



I don't understand this bit, why would you want to wait until the summer to get your manager if a good one was available now, unless you are speaking specifically about Ten Hag. Also I haven' seen anyone yet explain the massive difference between Poch and ETH's approaches. Both like to play an attack orientated style with a high press and with high intensity.



Why would you become a 3rd or 4th placed side under Poch, this is written and accepted all over the forum as though it is a fact, which is bizarre. Also Poch doesn't rely on individual brilliance at all, his Southampton and Spurs teams were clear well organised units. I haven't watched enough of PSG to see exactly how they pklay, but reading about it the problem seems to be Mbappe, Neymar and Messi play as a separate unit to the rest of team despite his management, rather than as a planned part of it.

I'm not saying Poch would be better than ETH, but I find it odd that Ten Hag is seen as an all conquering hero, who would revolutionise United and turn you into serial winners once again while Poch will get you into the top 4, when all the evidence points to a different outcome!

1000% spot on.

 

[Greck]

I've seen this quoted a lot, but I find it hard to believe. I remember Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali playing really good stuff, Spurs scoring a lot of goals and being generally solid throughout the squad. I'll admit, the football wasn't on the level of Guardiola, but I still remember Spurs as a good ball playing side?

I must be wrong here.. To be honest I'm not such a big advocate of Poch that I'm going to go back and watch replays of Spurs from 3 years ago, but I just don't remember Spurs under Poch as dull, or pragmatic. I think Spurs were a WC midfielder and a deeper squad away from being a real force under Poch, but it just fell apart with a lack of investment.

Yeah it's blatantly untrue. I specifically remember a CL tie with Poch getting called naive for not switching to pragmatic tactics (against Juventus I think). Spurs tried to continue dominating possession and eventually conceded a costly goal.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah it's blatantly untrue. I specifically remember a CL tie with Poch getting called naive for not switching to pragmatic tactics (against Juventus I think). Spurs tried to continue dominating possession and eventually conceded a costly goal.

Yeah, they dominated Juventus and went out, they also went toe to toe against Madrid at their peak. They didn't play defensive football, they looked to dominate games which backfired at times.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Why would you become a 3rd or 4th placed side under Poch, this is written and accepted all over the forum as though it is a fact, which is bizarre.

It's not actually a good argument against Poch (because it really applies to any possible, semi-realistic candidate) - but given how strong City, Liverpool and Chelsea look at the moment, it isn't bizarre to assume that we'd most likely be a 3rd or 4th placed side under Poch if he were to take over tomorrow (or even in June).

Right here and now, it would take someone or something special to elevate United to a level where we'd go toe-to-toe with the current big three. Poch may be a good manager, but you can't really blame anyone for not believing he's truly special.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Ten Hag for me. I think whenever I reflect on Poch's teams or hear him speak, I don't get that he is a visionary, you know what I mean? He is just a solid manager who is clearly better than most out there but I don't think he will be special. His time at Spurs was the closest for him to break into that "special" category if he had won that Champions League or won a domestic cup etc, but Levy messed it up by not investing. That opportunity for him is gone now, I don't think he'll win the Champions League at PSG either, despite having one of the best squads and almost limitless money. You have to make hay while the sun shines.

For us to claw back our reputation over the last 8 years, we need the next manager to be a revelation, someone truly special akin to Pep, Klopp and Tuchel etc. With Poch, I just cannot see him beating those 3 consistently to re-establish ourselves as a powerhouse. Because that is what we need. Tuchel was actually a bit of a gamble for Abramovich when you look back on it, because he didn't win the Champions League at PSG, and yes he won league titles there but it is Ligue 1 afterall. Abramovich could have gone for someone established like Brendan Rodgers for example but what is the point? You know what you will get, and it won't be good enough to beat Pep/Klopp.

It's almost a bit of a gamble (as Ten Hag might be a total disappointment), but we have no choice, we have to go all in now. You just know what you will get with Poch and it will be good, but not good enough.



Listen to him, you'll know he is worth a punt.

Most posters prefer not to, just call everyone who prefers ETH a hipster and point out that he isn't PL Proven.

 

[The Boy]

It's not actually a good argument against Poch (because it really applies to any possible, semi-realistic candidate) - but given how strong City, Liverpool and Chelsea look at the moment, it isn't bizarre to assume that we'd most likely be a 3rd or 4th placed side under Poch if he were to take over tomorrow (or even in June).

Right here and now, it would take someone or something special to elevate United to a level where we'd go toe-to-toe with the current big three. Poch may be a good manager, but you can't really blame anyone for not believing he's truly special.

I get what you're saying, but isn't a bit weird that people are now convinced they need some sort of footballing messiah to do well or go toe to to with the big three as you put it and even weirder that ETH is being imbued with almost magical potential by a lot of posters.

Tuchel certainly wasn't rated in the same bracket as Pep and Klopp when he was at PSG and there was no great clamour for him to come to United, but outside the the toxic PSG environment, which Tuchel has spoken about quite a bit now, he's flourishing.

That doesn't mean the same would happen with Poch, but his achievements at Soton and Spurs suggest it's very possible, whereas at the moment there's no evidence that ETH could reproduce his work at Ajax outside of the Overmars, VDS set up and outside of the Netherlands. Again that doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't but isn't it a much bigger gamble?

 

[RedBanker]

Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.

Superb post

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The set up at Ajax and United couldn't be more different. Ten Hag looks a very impressive coach but I don't think he would fit in with our hierarchy at all.

Personally see him taking over from Pep in summer 2023.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I get what you're saying, but isn't a bit weird that people are now convinced they need some sort of footballing messiah to do well or go toe to to with the big three as you put it and even weirder that ETH is being imbued with almost magical potential by a lot of posters.

Tuchel certainly wasn't rated in the same bracket as Pep and Klopp when he was at PSG and there was no great clamour for him to come to United, but outside the the toxic PSG environment, which Tuchel has spoken about quite a bit now, he's flourishing.

That doesn't mean the same would happen with Poch, but his achievements at Soton and Spurs suggest it's very possible, whereas at the moment there's no evidence that ETH could reproduce his work at Ajax outside of the Overmars, VDS set up and outside of the Netherlands. Again that doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't but isn't it a much bigger gamble?

The ten Hag thing is a bit ridiculous - certainly.

As for footballing Messiah...well, the fact is that we have no significant edge on our rivals anymore in terms of resources: we can't realistically overtake City/Pool/Chelsea by outspending them, so we'd need - yes - if not a Messiah, then certainly a manager/coach who's got just that edge himself.

As things stand right now, I should emphasize. Of course, things change very quickly in football - there's no telling, really, what will be necessary (in order to win a major trophy/challenge for it), say, a year from now.

 

[Greck]

It’s not like Klopp had a ridiculously successful spell at Borussua before hand…

I also like the reasoning that Poch struggled because his team haven’t spent enough and now he’s struggling because his team spent too much. It’s certainly true to an extent but it doesn’t work well as a joint argument.

the reasoning is both sets of situations didn't allow him to bring in his own style of players nor offer much flexibility. Are they even allowed to rotate the stars at PSG? Tuchel said they're more politician than coach. Tuchel's stint at chelsea has to be the biggest endorsement for not taking anything at face value. Also let's not overstate these struggles, they are 11 points ahead of the league. Not winning the CL isn't a stick to beat any manager with (hasnt even been knocked out yet) Even Fergie wasnt dominating the CL with regularity. The same Pep who supposedly schooled him yesterday hasn't won it with City. Plus people think what we have with Ronaldo was bad, PSG is like having 3 Ronaldos.

 

[JuriM]

Not a single manager in the world is able to put a random 11 of players on pitch and implement their tactic on them flawlessly and get the results and accolades.

Not all of our players will fit a high press, high intensity, short passing football we all look for. So whoever we get to manage us next, there will be player casualties.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The Zidane disrespect is unreal. started management in 2016 and won 3 x CL, 2 x La Liga, 2 x Club world cup. it would probably take Ten Haag 15 years to even get a portion of that as its unprecedented. he is the most successful manager of the past 5 years. NUMBER ONE

Zidane won everything with a side that was one of the greatest in history.

Ronaldo in his prime, Bale in his prime, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Marcelo, Benzema etc etc... it was almost harder to lose with a side like that!

Now don't get me wrong he's obviously done a great job putting it all together and keeping it working, but i'm not so sure he'd be able to replicate that at another club.

It will be interesting to see how he fares in the rest of his career.