The Athletic: "Man Utd coaches trying Jadon Sancho as RWB"

[The Irish Connection]

To be fair, if Conte came in I could see him doing similar but that style arguably didn’t suit us.
Its a shambles though.
I just pray to Jesus that the next appointment works out for us and that they’re working on it.

 

[Fortitude]

On the bright side, perhaps making too many disastrous decisions in a short span of time will force a sacking.

I dunno, this one really rubs me up the wrong way: Sancho's a legitimate special talent, or however you want it phrased, and we've chased him for years, then we finally snag him and have absolutely no idea what to do with him, compounded by putting him at wing-back?

It's the kind of thing, alongside how Amad and VdB's situations have gone, that will be a serious turn-off for young talent deciding on their next club. We're sending out so many bad signals at the moment that I cannot believe it isn't some kind of thought experiment.

If the collective they of Ole and his staff are left to their own devices and even attempt this kind of thing with what are top class players, you have to wonder how much damage they can cause and how long it'll take to undo.

The most telling word in your post is the 'perhaps' because by now, none of us really know what the end game actually is and how bad things have to get for the plug to be pulled. What's more frustrating is it shouldn't take it being indisputable for that action to take place, unless it's a contractual penalty that reduces the payout.

It's like every story coming out about us is designed to stoke the fires that bit more, and it'll be crazy if they're all rooted in truth because it just tells you how bad things are.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Here’s a crazy idea, just bare with me for a second why don’t we just play a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 properly were all or players you know stay in position and play what resembles a coached team, instead of a 4-2-4 and just say feck it won’t work 5 at the back..

Problem is 433 isn’t natural either. Matic is the only decent DM we have and the 2 number 8’s our players are probably too attacking. The only trio I can see with any balance is Matic (deep lying role linking the play), Fred (ball winner), and one of VDB, Pogba, and Bruno. I think we saw against villareal a 433 with Bruno and Pogba didn’t work.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Putting Lingard there would mąkę more sense

 

[VP89]

I very much doubt with this coaching staff we would get it to work and even with Conte it didn’t last that long.

What I’m suggesting is we play an actual formation the players are used to without throwing the baby out with the bath water because of a formation that was just mental to say the least, a few tweaks rather than a full system overthrow but coaches who let’s face it are very inexperienced.

Conte's systems are sustainable but his implosion at Chelsea were off the football pitch rather than on it.

I agree with you we should have a set philosophy and not change unless it's a pre-emptive tactical tweak for certain games. Here it's obviously just reactionary because we are surviving game to game.

 

[Moby]

Yes I think his role and of course the 6 will need to be upgraded upon, but broadly speaking its a good system suited to get the best of our big players. So is a 4321 or 433 provided the coach is right.

Even Shaw for me isn't a great LWB and probably would make a better LCB similar to how Azpi plays as RCB. You watch how TAA, Chilwell, Alonso, Davies, Marcelo etc play and how much width they provide and we don't have anyone on either side who is that dynamic and effective on both sides.

And if you play that 343, where do you play Bruno?

 

[El Zoido]

That's the problem, giving players 10 or 20 minutes at a time saying 'rescue us' doesn't work. Then he doesn't see the following game because he didn't have a direct effect on the outcome. Fecking Michael Owen said it, sometimes you need to go through a bit of pain trying a player in a position and let them settle and learn the role and the team. Benching them almost immediately is pointless, they will sit for months on the bench in that case. See VdB, Sancho, Telles, and loads more. We are hopeless the now, at least fecking try something different. Fed up of how clueless we look.

I completely agree, it’s maddening.

 

[JPRouve]

Even Shaw for me isn't a great LWB and probably would make a better LCB similar to how Azpi plays as RCB. You watch how TAA, Chilwell, Alonso, Davies, Marcelo etc play and how much width they provide and we don't have anyone on either side who is that dynamic and effective on both sides.

And if you play that 343, where do you play Bruno?

On the bench.

 

[devilish]

Yeah, but buying Sancho was the right thing to do. It is how he is being used thereafter that is the problem all of the transfer moves have merit to them. I don't beleive for a second that the transfer of Jadon Sancho has been authorised on the basis that he can be developed as a wing-back, it is something that Ole is having to do because he is incapable of getting a tune out of almost a billion £'s worth of footballers in his desired formation.

For all we know a lot of the rumblings about getting rid of Ole are coming from inside the club (I.E Murtough and Fletcher).

Given how little time they have been at the club I don't think any of what we are going through now can be attributed to them, that goes for both the positives (transfer business) and the negatives (Ole)

“Squad development is never-ending and constantly evolving. We're sitting down with Ole and we're talking about future plans in terms of where the squad will go and how we think it will develop.

“We want to balance squads with the right profile in terms of positions and in terms of age. The current squad has good balance with young, exciting players coming through, and those in the middle in the prime of their careers. And then you've the more experienced group – we can learn a lot from them, and they’re already having an impact on some of the younger players."

"We want to achieve sustained success by building on those foundations and having a proper strategy and people in place, key that the Manchester United culture rings through everything we do."

Do you think that the squad is balanced? Do you think that the plans made up to this point make sense? Is this the right move for Sancho and Manchester United? Do you think that United have a proper strategy and the right people in place?

 

[VP89]

Even Shaw for me isn't a great LWB and probably would make a better LCB similar to how Azpi plays as RCB. You watch how TAA, Chilwell, Alonso, Davies, Marcelo etc play and how much width they provide and we don't have anyone on either side who is that dynamic and effective on both sides.

And if you play that 343, where do you play Bruno?

Shaw has never been tested as a wingback by a capable coach. Telles played wingback when we triumphed vs PSG and Shaw's run at LWB vs Spurs was decent but I put that down to Spurs being shite.

I think Shaw has very good skillsets to flourish as a WB if coached well.

Bruno would be deeper in a 343 but be in the middle with licence to join the attack, just like Fabregas under Conte.

 

[Moby]

On the bench.

Booooo. Bruno plays.

Shaw has never been tested as a wingback by a capable coach. Telles played wingback when we triumphed vs PSG and Shaw's run at LWB vs Spurs was decent but I put that down to Spurs being shite.

I think Shaw has very good skillsets to flourish as a WB if coached well.

Bruno would be deeper in a 343 but be in the middle with licence to join the attack, just like Fabregas under Conte.

Not a big fan of playing Bruno deep. He should play as a number 10 or a SS.

Overall far too many changes would be needed in our squad to make this work in the first place while also leaving out a few of our attacking players.

 

[Deery]

Problem is 433 isn’t natural either. Matic is the only decent DM we have and the 2 number 8’s our players are probably too attacking. The only trio I can see with any balance is Matic (deep lying role linking the play), Fred (ball winner), and one of VDB, Pogba, and Bruno. I think we saw against villareal a 433 with Bruno and Pogba didn’t work.

I wouldn’t play Pogba and Bruno together honestly would just bench Pogba he’s liable to so many mistakes in midfield he can’t be trusted and bring him on as a sub for Bruno later in games. We haven’t got another decent DM besides Matic but McTominay can play there if needed I think he’s been scapegoated a bit because the team has been terrible but a new midfielder would be welcome all the same.

 

[pocco]

It does smack a bit of when someone new to a field tries something ‘new’ because it ‘feels creative’ and therefore it must be original and useful because no one else is doing it.

Like when someone new to cooking half-jokingly suggests using Kool-aid powder in a recipe, or crushed Oreos on a pizza.

Part of me wonders if he's seen Tuchel use Hudson Odoi as a RWB and it's got his cogs turning.

 

[VP89]

Not a big fan of playing Bruno deep. He should play as a number 10 or a SS.

Overall far too many changes would be needed in our squad to make this work in the first place while also leaving out a few of our attacking players.

Eh? Bruno isn't deep in a 6, he's just playing as a creative CM rather than an out and out 10. He's actually got the chops for it and wouldn't have to adjust too much.

You can't have Bruno in 10/SS and then say you don't want to leave too many big players out. You either play Bruno into a creative midfielder role with licence to join the attack in periods of play (Rather than the whole 90) or you say you're sacrificing a couple big players.

Overall there's hardly any changes needed in the squad in a 343. You'd have Bruno compromising very slightly to play a bit deeper, but all other players play in roles they are fine with. Shaw can focus a lot more on creating in fact which he's best at, AWB can have more space to run into, Harry Maguire can push out more in possession to sustain attacks with 2 CBs behind him.

The key is coaching the system well. If not coached by a proper tactician, you'll get pulled apart like Sunday. But we do have a squad that can make it work, just need to upgrade the 6 and arguably RWB only.

 

[Deery]

Conte's systems are sustainable but his implosion at Chelsea were off the football pitch rather than on it.

I agree with you we should have a set philosophy and not change unless it's a pre-emptive tactical tweak for certain games. Here it's obviously just reactionary because we are surviving game to game.

I honestly can’t see it being true or leaked just to take attention away from sack the manager because it’s such a stupid idea to play Sancho there, just bring back Williams if you want to play a wing back he’d do better than Sancho there.

 

[VP89]

I honestly can’t see it being true or leaked just to take attention away from sack the manager because it’s such a stupid idea to play Sancho there, just bring back Williams if you want to play a wing back he’d do better than Sancho there.

Athletic also said we were training for 433 didn't they? We haven't played that once this season so maybe they know feck all, or they know what's happening but the manager knows feck all

 

[Uniquim]

Not surprised at this at all. 3-5-2 seems to work, Ole sticks with it.
Tbh, before we bought Sancho, I was thinking Hakimi could be an option for us, since he'd be able to play RWB and RW.

But honestly, we needed to solve the double pivot issue, so we could have a functioning midfield.
I think the idea with Varane was to play a higher line, and eliminate the space between midfield and defence, to alleviate the some of the pressure of defensive responsibilites for the midfield, since Ole was saying we'd be moving into a 4-3-3, but none of that came to pass without the midfield investments.

Bit of a mess this, innit?

 

[Berbasbullet]

I wouldn’t play Pogba and Bruno together honestly would just bench Pogba he’s liable to so many mistakes in midfield he can’t be trusted and bring him on as a sub for Bruno later in games. We haven’t got another decent DM besides Matic but McTominay can play there if needed I think he’s been scapegoated a bit because the team has been terrible but a new midfielder would be welcome all the same.

He wasn’t great in that role against Villareal, I agree with everything else you have said.

 

[Moby]

You can't have Bruno in 10/SS and then say you don't want to leave too many big players out. You either play Bruno into a creative midfielder role with licence to join the attack in periods of play (Rather than the whole 90) or you say you're sacrificing a couple big players

Which big players are sacrificed if we play a front four of Rashford, Bruno, Sancho and Ronaldo? That was going to be the line up for which Sancho was bought with Cavani instead of Ronaldo earlier. It's what I'd go with for this squad.

Bruno needs to play in the final third. He can make assists like Cesc but has a lot more to his game inside the box both as a scorer and linking up with forwards. The Ronaldo goal vs Spurs is where he should be.

 

[bond19821982]

"Why don't you do this thing?! Clueless PE teachers!"

*does this thing*

"Why did you do this thing?! Clueless PE teachers!"

Well, if this is what he is doing, hope he fecks off from the position immediately.

 

[VP89]

Which big players are sacrificed if we play a front four of Rashford, Bruno, Sancho and Ronaldo? That was going to be the line up for which Sancho was bought with Cavani instead of Ronaldo earlier. It's what I'd go with for this squad.

Bruno needs to play in the final third. He can make assists like Cesc but has a lot more to his game inside the box both as a scorer and linking up with forwards. The Ronaldo goal vs Spurs is where he should be.

Hypothetically you can do that, but then you have a 424 which no coach in the world will be successful with. The minute you bring any top coach - be it Conte, Tuchel, Klopp or Rangnick the very first thing they'll do is bring the balance in the team. That means not having 4 up top as you've done.

 

[Deery]

Athletic also said we were training for 433 didn't they? We haven't played that once this season so maybe they know feck all, or they know what's happening but the manager knows feck all

I’d opt for the manager knowing f all at this stage.

 

[VP89]

I’d opt for the manager knowing f all at this stage.

There was a tweet from them or someone else who said the coaching staff were also bemused by Ole as they were told to train with 433 in midweeks before Ole would go out and put 4231 on match days.

 

[Moby]

Hypothetically you can do that, but then you have a 424 which no coach in the world will be successful with. The minute you bring any top coach - be it Conte, Tuchel, Klopp or Rangnick the very first thing they'll do is bring the balance in the team. That means not having 4 up top as you've done.

City literally played a 235 vs us last game and that was simply due to the fact that they knew we will sit deep. Our bigger issues have been against teams which sit deep and you need to put more pressure vs them in the final third instead of having extra CBs and a counter attacking set up. So for most of the games it would work.

It's not a 424 either if Bruno presses off the ball along with the rest of the midfield and the wide players track back. That is a question of workrate which is needed for that formation to work and what the players should be putting in. I mean literally West ham currently are playing with a front four of Antonio Bowen Benrahma Fornals and they can easily play on the counter using that when needed and also push up. It's not some rocket science playing 4231 especially when our number 10 is a hard working one. The problem is the CM which we need to upgrade for any setup so I'd rather just find a CM who can protect the defense and stop counters and play that.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

It took Pep one game to figure that shit formation out. I don't know why we intend to persist with it. I don't even understand why we used it for City when they put the straightjacket on Chelsea against the same formation.

 

[Deery]

There was a tweet from them or someone else who said the coaching staff were also bemused by Ole as they were told to train with 433 in midweeks before Ole would go out and put 4231 on match days.

You see it’s mistakes like this and in game decisions that will make you lose matches and more importantly the players and staff’s confidence very quickly.

 

[SalfordRed18]

 

[gorky_utd]

This is sad .

 

[Sassy Colin]

We have a RWB who needs to improve his attacking game.

Replace him with a RW who we paid £70M+ for as a specialist RW

This is the level of coaching at our club.

Here's an idea, help the existing RWB to improve his attacking game?

This whole thing thing must be a wind up, right?

 

[Redlambs]

@mazhar13

This is what I was talking about. It's not about where he can play, it's about what this bunch think they can do with him. I said he'd play RWB in this system before ever starting CF, and I stand firm in that. It just makes so much more sense for this lot to see him in that role whether we like it or not.

 

[VP89]

"Why don't you do this thing?! Clueless PE teachers!"

*does this thing*

"Why did you do this thing?! Clueless PE teachers!"

"lets play Sancho as wingback"

Said no one sane, ever. You've backed Ole for a long time, probably too long, and it's coming across even now.

 

[Champ]

I thought we didn't work on tactical plays in training though???

 

[Sarni]

I agree with @Sarni 's take now. We need to loan him out ASAP. Need to get him away from Solskjaer, McKenna and co for his own good

My most ridiculous and out of the box idea ever will soon become popular. I admit I was almost trying to be controversial there and it will soon turn out to be the best case scenario. Send him to Palace FFS.

 

[Denis79]

Well if he doesn't think he has enough pressure on him, hell let him play the England national RW as a RB. This will be awesome!

 

[Danillaco]

Here’s a crazy idea, just bare with me for a second why don’t we just play a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 properly were all or players you know stay in position and play what resembles a coached team, instead of a 4-2-4 and just say feck it won’t work 5 at the back..

Now, stop talking crazy shit. Can't you see we already have more serious problems as teaching Sancho how to be a right wing back?

 

[Zehner]

So are we going to discuss in the future if Sancho is a RWB or a LWB?

I'm saying LWB.

 

[BlueHaze]

Absolutely love how Ole keeps going on about having world class coaching staff. In nearly every single interview he says this. This shows how completely out of touch with reality he actually is. Get rid of the lot of them. They're not even good enough for Wolves i fecking swear man.

 

[Idxomer]

So are we going to discuss in the future if Sancho is a RWB or a LWB?

I'm saying LWB.

An inverted left-wingback, I like it. The players defending behind him will be pulling their hair out.

 

[Woodzy]

Spend nearly a decade looking for a competent right winger, finally drop near £80m on one of the hottest prospects in the world in that position and then within months stop playing with wingers.

Yep, sounds like us.

 

[mazhar13]

@mazhar13

This is what I was talking about. It's not about where he can play, it's about what this bunch think they can do with him. I said he'd play RWB in this system before ever starting CF, and I stand firm in that. It just makes so much more sense for this lot to see him in that role whether we like it or not.

What I'm surprised with is how they see him as a pure winger despite his role being more than that at Dortmund for his whole time there. A wing back must be a very good crosser and should have the athleticism to go end-to-end for 90+ minutes. They can contribute more in the final third, but I don't see how Sancho make the most of his skill set if he's playing as a wing back. His dribbling isn't even that quick that he can beat the opposition in 1-on-1 situations consistently, and I don't know if he's fast enough to beat the opposition on pace. That's before we even talk about his defending, which I wouldn't say is anywhere near as good as Wan-Bissaka's.