I really don’t think that this is the reason behind why footballers commit crimes against women.
Should we de-brand our youth set-up?
- Thread starter Scholsey2004
- Start date
I really don’t think that this is the reason behind why footballers commit crimes against women.
None of the things you've mentioned in the first sentence are remotely close in nature to the event that provoked this thread.
The bolded is an utterly absurd standard to hold any person to, let alone teenagers.
I don't think this idea makes any difference at all. Forgetting the potential connection between overly rewarding these players and violence for a second, look at the actual landscape that creates these millionaire young players:
The fact is that football connects talent, even if it is perceived talent with excessive financial reward. That is due to the competitive nature of the industry, football financing and access to a limited pool of talent. So what you get is clubs feeling they have little choice but to reward these players with large contracts.
Whether you rename our youth is so far from addressing the crux of why football finances are as they are it seems like it must be a joke. As soon as they become promising first team players the rewards flow and what you did with the youth team makes bugger all difference aside from the fact that hopefully we had good influences on these young players.
No, football economics need addressing completely from every angle but it's not going to happen.
The fact is that football connects talent, even if it is perceived talent with excessive financial reward. That is due to the competitive nature of the industry, football financing and access to a limited pool of talent. So what you get is clubs feeling they have little choice but to reward these players with large contracts.
Whether you rename our youth is so far from addressing the crux of why football finances are as they are it seems like it must be a joke. As soon as they become promising first team players the rewards flow and what you did with the youth team makes bugger all difference aside from the fact that hopefully we had good influences on these young players.
No, football economics need addressing completely from every angle but it's not going to happen.
We can try and create good footballers surrounded by a decent culture from good people. If certain individuals are felons in their personal life, it is a consequence of their free will and could happen across any industry to any organisation. We take a lot of shite and rightly so most of the times but the Greenwood situation cannot be blamed on the club.
Having said that, there’s always this feeling that a Fergie like figure, who kept a close eye on the young players overall development could’ve inculcated a culture which doesn’t put so much cash in immature hands.
Having said that, there’s always this feeling that a Fergie like figure, who kept a close eye on the young players overall development could’ve inculcated a culture which doesn’t put so much cash in immature hands.
Didn't SAF rule the club with an iron fist, I seem to recall he drove to a party to turf out some of the first team players once? Sure someone mentioned it in an autobiography.
But he also knew when to put the arm around the shoulder. Ole, while complimented for his man management skills, was too much of the latter.
I thought we'd been very careful with Mason, not allowing him to do interviews etc.
Unfortunately you will always get some bad apples, however the money players, including those at such a young age, get is obscene. I'd be interested to know what Mason's parents are like, have they instilled in him life morals and ethics?
There's no sense of accountability in the senior team, which I've said before. They can perform awfully day in day out, but still pocket more in a week that most of us make in years. Look at them crying and whinging about having to train after dark.
Do we not have some football equivalent of HR that can create a proper wage structure with performance criteria added to contracts. The player power at this club is ridiculous.
There's very few role models in the senior team for the academy players.
I'd like to see them get lessons (do they?) In money management and social media awareness and taking responsibility for their actions off the pitch
I'd love to see an amazon documentary on us like they did with City/ Tottenham etc. No wonder we decline them as the whole club has been so badly run, at so many levels, for so long.
But he also knew when to put the arm around the shoulder. Ole, while complimented for his man management skills, was too much of the latter.
I thought we'd been very careful with Mason, not allowing him to do interviews etc.
Unfortunately you will always get some bad apples, however the money players, including those at such a young age, get is obscene. I'd be interested to know what Mason's parents are like, have they instilled in him life morals and ethics?
There's no sense of accountability in the senior team, which I've said before. They can perform awfully day in day out, but still pocket more in a week that most of us make in years. Look at them crying and whinging about having to train after dark.
Do we not have some football equivalent of HR that can create a proper wage structure with performance criteria added to contracts. The player power at this club is ridiculous.
There's very few role models in the senior team for the academy players.
I'd like to see them get lessons (do they?) In money management and social media awareness and taking responsibility for their actions off the pitch
I'd love to see an amazon documentary on us like they did with City/ Tottenham etc. No wonder we decline them as the whole club has been so badly run, at so many levels, for so long.
Big call but get them off social media. The Daddy stuff etc, why was this allowed?
Good post. I truly believe the way a career goes can be determined a lot by the correct support they have as a young person, as well as what is in their own nature. I'm 100% sure the club are doing sessions with the young players about the modern challenges they face being young people in the spot light and that's as much as they can do, as well as ensuring they have a good support structure at home.
The problem with my highlighted part is that if you don't offer the child prodigy what the prodigy is worth, with the agent power that they have now you will end up losing the player to someone who is willing to pay it and you can end up losing a world class player. Imagine if we had not offered a certain player the money they were on and lost him and none of these events happened. The fan base would be fuming, myself included, as to why we didn't offer them what they were worth.
Imagine you're Phil Jones
This. Everyone needs to simmer down honestly.
The club identity in the academy has completely changed with us buying in players in the u15s and down with few of the players being at the club from a young age. The players brought in are generally early developers with many of them being born abroad. I was told by a parent from Crewe at work last week that in our U14s almost half the team are not UK born with two boys playing supposedly aged 10 from Cameroon who looked more like 17. This race to the bottom is hardly going to establish any identity or culture with learnt values and will see limited development over the coming years unless a rethink is undertaken. Sadly. Those in charge may no longer be at the club once this is realised.
I agree with " Bigsid", the whole youth structure at Utd., has changed which has in my opinion had a detremental effect on the ability of the club to look after the welbeing, education and the pastoral care of these young players.
Many years ago the young players were local, living with parents etc., those that were not local were put into digs which had been selected by the club, and also some would live with senior players so there was a level of supervision and examples of behaviour and what was expected of them as a UTd., player.
However, now the younger players can afford to buy their own property, and other them in training, match days they have I suspect very little contact with the seniors players, the link of the teaching of expectations of a UTd., player has been broken, plus there are certain senior players at the club who are not the best examples for young players to follow.
Many years ago the young players were local, living with parents etc., those that were not local were put into digs which had been selected by the club, and also some would live with senior players so there was a level of supervision and examples of behaviour and what was expected of them as a UTd., player.
However, now the younger players can afford to buy their own property, and other them in training, match days they have I suspect very little contact with the seniors players, the link of the teaching of expectations of a UTd., player has been broken, plus there are certain senior players at the club who are not the best examples for young players to follow.
The club identity is driven by developing youth players. Not by the Academy itself.
Before 1999 we didn't have an Academy and yet we had a 65 years history of youth development by that point. All of those players were brought in at 15 and 16 years old...that's always been part of our strategy and always will be.
Players have been coming to United at different ages from different countries since 1937...virtually all of our players in the U/14's and U/15's are UK born and we have a history of developing small players and ignoring the age profile you mention.
In our U/15's the likes of Bailey, Higgins, Lacey, Missin, Oriola have all featured and are very small. I don't think there are many very big lads in that team at all. Same with the U/16's.
If you are saying it is all changing in the years below that then we will have to see.
But I don't see any loss of culture or identity.
It’s just silly season now.
Speaking of de-brand, does he-who-shall-not-be-named also have artwork in Carrington? I think there's a wall dedicated to all youth players, I see Pogba, Lingard and Rashford on this one.
This is a myth.
The club does more today to look after the well-being of the young players than any time in our history. The level of activity is unbelievable and anyone thinking that the club doesn't facilitate a range of educational programmes is mistaken. They include media training, diversity and inclusion, racism, environmental awareness and the youngsters are encouraged to do charity work with the MU Foundation. It's well advertised but isn't the type of sensationalism that modern fans seem to enjoy.
The Academy players who live local still live with their parents. The ones who come from further afield are still put into digs. Not many young players ever lived with senior pros...those older players had wives and children to look after and so never got involved with youth players outside of football. Sure there was an odd occasion with George Best moving in with Paddy Crerand for a few weeks....but that was a one-off.
Scholars who are under 18 and therefore not on pro contracts earn about £160 pw so they aren't going around buying houses.
I reckon most of the senior pros at United are excellent role models...and most kids know what is right and what is wrong.
There are a lot of people joining dots with certain off-field activities and then trying to find non-existent dots with our Academy...it isn't connected at all.
You never know what someone is really like but there are things you can do.
Keep them away from major endorsement deals/sponsorships until they're 21 or at least they have shown they are mature enough to handle the extra attention.
Bring in psychologists/mental health workers to speak with them regularly.
Call out bad attitudes/comments straight away and don't let things escalate.
Use the example of Rashford and get them involved in regular community projects.
Forgetting everything else, those things will allow them to succeed outside of football if they don't make it.
Keep them away from major endorsement deals/sponsorships until they're 21 or at least they have shown they are mature enough to handle the extra attention.
Bring in psychologists/mental health workers to speak with them regularly.
Call out bad attitudes/comments straight away and don't let things escalate.
Use the example of Rashford and get them involved in regular community projects.
Forgetting everything else, those things will allow them to succeed outside of football if they don't make it.
Why can't they clean their own boots?
I don't think young players acting very stupid is a new thing. It happened in the past too but we heard a lot less about it.
Nice to see Gareth Bale taking a tour of CarringtonSpeaking of de-brand, does he-who-shall-not-be-named also have artwork in Carrington? I think there's a wall dedicated to all youth players, I see Pogba, Lingard and Rashford on this one.
I've always like the traditional Italian way of doing things ie send a kid to loan for a season or two irrespective of how good he is. Thus he'll stay out of the limelight and focused on a returning home.
Changing the name of the youth teams to Melchester Rovers won't stop a very small minority of players doing bad things.
No we should not, but we should think about how to train charactersat the club. Young men and women must learn to act responsible and empathetic. Fame and money won't teach them anything, it is up to the club support young players to become real man or women, who can solve conflicts with words and respect, who accept others, who can handle frustration and rejection. Why? Because all the young players spend more time with the club then with their family.
I agree, why do you think Nicky Butt left?
Don't be ridiculous.
Academy players train twice a week and play once on the weekend on average. That's about 6 hours out of 168 or 3.5% of their time.
They live at home.
Values are learned at home first with family and friends...reinforced at school by a good education...encouraged by mixing with the right peer group.
When they enter the world of work, or sign professional contracts as footballers, if these things are missing it's too late. They are adults.
The club already does more than necessary to encourage the right behaviours in those six hours.
At 14 Austrian youth teams train up to 7 times a week and the kids go to school too. Most of the kids have host families or live at a boarding school. They spend most of their time not at home. So the clubs often have special programs for these kids.
that they've just seen someone throw away a career / lifetime of glory and adulation and potentially 100s of millions in earnings (and in no sense is he the victim here), on their doorstep, if thats not enough to focus their minds then nothing will.
I think it's worth asking how do you define a successful academy?
1. Players making it at United?
2. Players making it in football (outside of United) and having a good, long career in the game?
3. Players going on to become good, honest members of society (inside the football industry or even outside of it)?
Shaping young minds is a difficult job anywhere but can only imagine what its like when players are earning ridiculous wages from the age of 17/18.
1. Players making it at United?
2. Players making it in football (outside of United) and having a good, long career in the game?
3. Players going on to become good, honest members of society (inside the football industry or even outside of it)?
Shaping young minds is a difficult job anywhere but can only imagine what its like when players are earning ridiculous wages from the age of 17/18.
I think we should invest more in inculcated the right value system into these kids. For the biggest talent the system has produced in aons to turn out to such a scumbag is a huge blow. Its worth it to invest more time and money into training them to be better human beings. Yes we can't control everything but we should (and maybe we are) try to educate them more.
To be fair we have only had three youth players in recent times that have caused trouble (Giggs, Greenwood and Morrison) as far as I can remember although correct me if I'm wrong. When you consider the hundreds and thousands of players who have come through the youth ranks there will always be some scumbags on a personal level.
We also have to remember that there are many more players who came through the youth system that are generally good guys like Scholes, Beckham, Neville (x2), Fletcher, O'Shea , McTominay, Rashford etc etc
I don't think it's really fair for the club to absorb any of the blame from the actions of some individuals. Our academy has done way more good than bad even going back to the Busby Babes.
We really need to celebrate the good guys who came through the ranks and remove the bad ones from our history altogether
We also have to remember that there are many more players who came through the youth system that are generally good guys like Scholes, Beckham, Neville (x2), Fletcher, O'Shea , McTominay, Rashford etc etc
I don't think it's really fair for the club to absorb any of the blame from the actions of some individuals. Our academy has done way more good than bad even going back to the Busby Babes.
We really need to celebrate the good guys who came through the ranks and remove the bad ones from our history altogether