Maybe we shouldn't go for one of those managers then? We finish the rebuild in oles vision?
Steve Bruce for the next manager?
Should we consider selling Harry Maguire?
- Thread starter TsuWave
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Maybe we shouldn't go for one of those managers then? We finish the rebuild in oles vision?
Steve Bruce for the next manager?
I wouldn't. People forget he had a good season last season. We conceded about 20 goals less than the year before.
Obviously his start to the season has been as bad as anything I've seen in a United shirt, but 3 games shouldn't overrule a good opening season. Id reassess around Xmas but I think his form will improve
Obviously his start to the season has been as bad as anything I've seen in a United shirt, but 3 games shouldn't overrule a good opening season. Id reassess around Xmas but I think his form will improve
Yes.
I've been repeating the same thing constantly..
1 less goal than City, 3 less than Liverpool, 3rd best in the league.
When it comes to clean sheets, before the break we had 2nd best record in Europe behind PSG.
Merson is full of bollocks. I remember when he did this, it was when we signed Maguire. He absolutely pasted Maguire and then that weekend we beat Chelsea 4-0 at home (albeit a bit lucky) and Maguire got Man of the Match. Then a few days later Merson came out and apologised and said he was wrong about Maguire!
The truth is, I don’t believe Maguire is good enough for us. But Merson went back and forth on his views.
I have to disagree with his biggest bollocks though that you only play 3 at the back when your defenders aren’t good enough?
Did he never watch Maldini, Costacurta, Baresi, Nesta play football? And more recently the likes of Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini forming a formidable defence for many years at Juve.
With regards to Maguire, I don’t believe he’s good enough. Yes he had a “decent” season last season, but even a decent season never made us look solid and reliable defensively. There was never a run of games where I felt confidence about our defence. It was more a case of being confident that we would out score the opponent or we would sit deep and counter teams.
Naive fans. We can barely sell a good Cb for £10m and we want to sell an asset that we paid £80m for last year.
Granted he hasn't had a good start but lets not be real here. Yes we may have over paid but he isn't as bad as people think.
VVD looked awful this season too, why? the protection infront is poor. When you have CB's exposed, I don't care which CB it is they will struggle.
Under Fergie, every time our CB's were exposed they struggled too.
If we go back to games we played City, Chelsea where Maguire looked good, we played with a shape and structure which meant our defenders were not being exposed every 30 seconds and we looked better.
This is not down to individual problems, the system they are playing in is flawed.
Granted he hasn't had a good start but lets not be real here. Yes we may have over paid but he isn't as bad as people think.
VVD looked awful this season too, why? the protection infront is poor. When you have CB's exposed, I don't care which CB it is they will struggle.
Under Fergie, every time our CB's were exposed they struggled too.
If we go back to games we played City, Chelsea where Maguire looked good, we played with a shape and structure which meant our defenders were not being exposed every 30 seconds and we looked better.
This is not down to individual problems, the system they are playing in is flawed.
Yes we need a Captain who can't be bothered to have an opinion in anything that happens on the pitch
That non committed attitude is what makes a real leader
He really didn't have a good season and he will not improve . What level he is at now is his best and that is pathetic
How many players have played well in the first 3 games?
The entire team have been poor. We win together, we lose together.
The reality is that he’s going nowhere, and he’s our best CB. He’s had a bad start to the season, as have many others. He needs to pull his finger out and cut out the mistakes. We saw last year that he’s a good defender.
Should we sell him, no. We do need a better partner for him. If in a couple of years we are in a position to replace him for someone better, then great - they will need to be a top player. He’s not as bad as the first 3 matches would suggest.
The entire team have been poor. We win together, we lose together.
The reality is that he’s going nowhere, and he’s our best CB. He’s had a bad start to the season, as have many others. He needs to pull his finger out and cut out the mistakes. We saw last year that he’s a good defender.
Should we sell him, no. We do need a better partner for him. If in a couple of years we are in a position to replace him for someone better, then great - they will need to be a top player. He’s not as bad as the first 3 matches would suggest.
Ridiculous thread, can’t believe this is being discussed. The question really comes down to this: Why has Maguire looked like a good defender on England and at Leicester? Ole insists on our CBs playing a high line when he knows they lack pace and then adds to the chaos by playing Matic as a DM.
That’s why there was pressure by Ole to get a CB with pace. That didn’t happen so clearly Ole needs to change things up rather than constantly leaving our CBs exposed. If Ole can’t do that then we know what the problem is and it’s not all on Maguire.
That’s why there was pressure by Ole to get a CB with pace. That didn’t happen so clearly Ole needs to change things up rather than constantly leaving our CBs exposed. If Ole can’t do that then we know what the problem is and it’s not all on Maguire.
People will believe what they want to believe if it fits their agenda. I'm not saying this info was right or wrong. I don't know. But we can easily see how quickly some are to not only believe info like this, but also share it...
The state of this thread.
Maguire needs to return to his old level. He was in the Starting XI of the WC 2018, ffs. But suddenly he becomes the handsome version of Jones, and just as bad? Suspicious. Horrible pre-season and Greece broke him.
The fact people are relying on Merson’s analysis says it all.
Dear OP, have you watched McG’s career? I don’t think he was he had these types of mistakes in him and crumbs I’ve seen pallister and Bruce commit bigger bowlers than McG.
Im going out on a limbhere and saying if Ole can be defended due to a lack of funds given to him by Woodward can’t it be said sheeeetcoaching has led to this incredible drop of form and almost complete lack of confidence? The defence rests with the coaching.
Im going out on a limbhere and saying if Ole can be defended due to a lack of funds given to him by Woodward can’t it be said sheeeetcoaching has led to this incredible drop of form and almost complete lack of confidence? The defence rests with the coaching.
Plus I’ve seen pallister, Bruce, Rio, Wes, GNev, PNev, Vidic (every game almost against Torres) and the rest make similar bowlers and have similar drops in form. McG and VVD are two of the best headers of the ball in the prem.
Lindelof on the other hand is an absolute liability virtually every game. This will impact you as the other CB as for Bailly he seems to want to head balls he should be booting and boot balls he should be heading and is a nightmare positionally. So, no, McG stays, the rest go.
Lindelof on the other hand is an absolute liability virtually every game. This will impact you as the other CB as for Bailly he seems to want to head balls he should be booting and boot balls he should be heading and is a nightmare positionally. So, no, McG stays, the rest go.
He needs time away from the spotlight and allow him to sort himself out mentally. He made a few mistakes last season but we were defensively excellent post December. Personally, I think the incident in the Summer has fecked his form up, which to be fair is understandable. We shouldn't abandon him though because he does have quality and he is our best defender. But he isn't the leader I think the club hoped for and he isn't a captain for me.
I think we need to give the man a chance to recover his form. The guy has been through a terrible ordeal just a few weeks ago and it might well have affected his game which is surely understandable. He's a good player despite what Merson says. He's in need of our support and loyalty rather than vilification. We used to be good at that.
No, but selection should be based on merits and form.
Who in their right mind would pay us even half of what we paid for him.
If we can recoup back the transfer money we paid for him, then sure.
Otherwise no.
Seriously our CB options are thin and terrible. We should try Bailly-Lindelof first before entertaining this idea.. well I'm not confident but just a slim maybe. Maybe getting in another top CB first too?
Otherwise no.
Seriously our CB options are thin and terrible. We should try Bailly-Lindelof first before entertaining this idea.. well I'm not confident but just a slim maybe. Maybe getting in another top CB first too?
If we can get 65m+ I'm up for selling him.
Not a chance we get that amount in the next year or 2, so we just got to play him back into form.
Not a chance we get that amount in the next year or 2, so we just got to play him back into form.
*Crosses himself while reciting the Lord's Prayer"
You can try giving him for free, no club worth their salt would want to spend 200k/week on him. Not to mention playing him actually weakens the team, a 35years old Johny evans is much better option.
We got robbed
Every great team needs 4 centre halves. The only way we get rid of Maguire is if we bring in 4 guys who are better than him. As it stands now he is the best centre half in our squad. So to sell him, first you have to get rid of Lindeloff, Bailly, Rojo and Jones. You don't improve a squad by getting rid of your best players. You improve a squad by bringing in players who are better than the best players you already have. Knee jerk reactions on a season that is 3 games old. Gotta love the Caf...
We should have sold Rio too, right? Especially after missing that drug test and his lackadaisical early performances?
Not really believing it's gonna happen, but let's say it will, then if 65m or even 50m would be reinvested into two young fullback talents in mood of Pellistri or Traore plus perhaps even one talented CB, that could be step in interesting direction.
Depends whos making that judgement.
United were the 3rd best team and had the 3rd best defence in the league last season, conceding 36 compared to City 35 and Liverpool 33. You may class it as rubbish, I class as it as not great but good.
This season so far is rubbish, and that's what has swayed alot of peoples opinion of what actually happened last season.
I mean by your logic can the statically 3rd best attack in the league and 2nd best in all competitions in Europe be a shit attack?
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I'd pump it all back to getting the best CB we can for 65m tbh. I'm sure there are a fair few quality CBs for that price.
We need to also sell Bailly, Rojo and Jones and get another 40-50m valued CB.
Back up for these 2 CBs can come from Lindelof as well as the youth team
We are playing the exact same system as last year
Really? go check our results and the system we played against Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc.
We played 5 back with Matic and Fred in midfield.
Before lockdown we played 4-2-3-1 with Fred and Matic holding.
The system is completely different. We had James tracking back, now we have Greenwood and Rashford staying up top.
There is a difference between formation and system.
Playing the same formation does not mean we are playing the same system.
Yes really.
We do change formations for certain games, yes.
But we predominately play a 4-2-3-1. The personnel change, which has a massive impact on defensive cover, for example - Pogba offers no defensive cover whole Fred does. James offers more than Greenwood.
Its the same set up, only too many half arsed performances and individual errors are effecting us more.
We are just playing crap
Yes playing 4-2-3-1 does not mean the system is the same when players change.
As you said playing Pogba means less defensive cover, this is because he is not playing to the system.
If you put AWB and Shaw in Liverpools team, they will not be the same even though the formation would be the same, because the system has changed.
Players have defined roles in formations, playing 2 in DM means you protect the back 4, if Pogba is not doing so, he needs to be dropped.
Maguire was the one that had fallen of the rails to that point. It was still 2-1 at that point and we were down to 10 men while their player seemed to be getting away with what also should have been a red card. Things were still being checked, they could have insisted on having the ref go look at the monitor or at least persuade him to do so - who knows what he decides then. But, captain meek wanted us to just take it.
So, what you are saying is, he doesn't fit the style the manager wants to play with. Then did we bought him in the first place?
Actually he doesn't fit any style unless you play with 3 in the back like England, or with a deep block like his 2 seasons with Leicester City. He is weak in 1v1 situations against any fast opponent, and frankly speaking, I find difficulties trying to think of any defensive qualities that he excels at apart from aerial clearances.
Leadership! I thought not coming out to the media after a heavy defeat at home is something a leader should not do. But hey, let's change every thing to suit him maybe he will improve.
He didn't did he? He talked to the ref before and if I think someone has put it up here now. What he said to Rashford was afterwards. Yes he had a shit show and he make a mistake for sure for the first one too. But people having a go at him for the second is being unreasonable. Did he come apart? Absolutely.
That’s a question everyone should be asking Ole. He’s the one who sanctioned the deal when Dias and Koulibaly were available. Ole as the manager needs to find a way to get the best out of Maguire. Rodgers and Southgate have, so time for Ole to adjust.
That aside, this thread is a sad state of where we’re at when Maguire is being called a flop already. He’s not, he’s a good defender just having a bad run of form.
First strip the armband off him. If he is still crap for a few more matches, bench him. Then sell.
He can only go off the team at the time of speaking. At the time of making those comments we hadn't signed Bruno. Prior to the Bruno signing we were very much looking to finishing fifth or six. If two weeks ago I said we'd finish sixth based on our business and then we go and sign Koulibally, Sancho, Telles, Cavani and Partey on deadline day, the situation changes entirely. He was bang on the money with us. Was obviously wrong with Chelsea.
Context.