Should we consider selling Harry Maguire?

I can't see the club selling him. But he's bang out of form and the defensive system as a whole isn't working. In fairness, today he got no protection from the midfield.
Keep reading Maguire needs a partner with pace to make up for his deficiencies. Hopefully next time we spend big on a defender they're good enough in their own right and not as dependent on their partne to bail them out.
There were a lot of posters on here who were against Maguires signing, either because they felt he wasn't good enough, was too expensive or a combination of both. I thought they were wrong but I'm not so sure now.
 
£40 mil tops ...Leicester fecked us over good and proper
 
RC89 said:
I disagree that Bailly is on another level. Agree that he's not good enough but Maguire doesn't get called out for just how poor he is. What was he thinking when he was dragging Shaw down? He's a joke of a defender.
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This place seems to forget we were very good defensively last season . Yes he's been poor but so has AVB so had Shaw so has Lindelof and Bailly is abysmal.
Liverpool conceded 7 tonight against Villa fecking 7 . VVD is the best defender ever according to some . It happens
 
No. We would get peanut for him, then rinsed for the replacement. He should be Okay for now, but like everyone in this team right now, can be upgradable.
 
Tel074 said:
This place seems to forget we were very good defensively last season . Yes he's been poor but so has AVB so had Shaw so has Lindelof and Bailly is abysmal.
Liverpool conceded 7 tonight against Villa fecking 7 . VVD is the best defender ever according to some . It happens
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Indeed it does happen, but VVD has plenty of world class performances under his belt and is regularly one of the best if not the best CB in the league so you can call it an off night.

Since signing for us, Maguire has at best been average and at worse been shocking. It's not an off night for him.

Last season, the amount of times he would be the one player playing the attacker on side.... Thankfully it didn't cost us too often. If a player shapes up to run him down the outside but instead drops the shoulder and comes inside, it's all over for Maguire, zero mobility. He fancies himself as Beckenbauer but he's a more expensive, less injury prone Phil Jones.



Today, Shaw is about to try and clear, Maguire drags him down.

Today, he literally heads the ball OFF Bailly's head. Bailly stood no chance to control it.

Bailly today actually made some crucial challenges. Maguire gets it easy cuz he's English.
 
RC89 said:
Indeed it does happen, but VVD has plenty of world class performances under his belt and is regularly one of the best if not the best CB in the league so you can call it an off night.

Since signing for us, Maguire has at best been average and at worse been shocking. It's not an off night for him.

Last season, the amount of times he would be the one player playing the attacker on side.... Thankfully it didn't cost us too often. If a player shapes up to run him down the outside but instead drops the shoulder and comes inside, it's all over for Maguire, zero mobility. He fancies himself as Beckenbauer but he's a more expensive, less injury prone Phil Jones.



Today, Shaw is about to try and clear, Maguire drags him down.

Today, he literally heads the ball OFF Bailly's head. Bailly stood no chance to control it.

Bailly today actually made some crucial challenges. Maguire gets it easy cuz he's English.
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So how come we had one or the best defensive records last season ?
Is he worth 80 million? Of course he isn't but the absolute idiots on here talking that he's been shit since he joined .
Bailly looks brain dead on a football pitch
 
Tel074 said:
So how come we had one or the best defensive records last season ?
Is he worth 80 million? Of course he isn't but the absolute idiots on here talking that he's been shit since he joined .
Bailly looks brain dead on a football pitch
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Probably due to Maguire concussing him.

In all seriousness, I'm not sure why we had such a good defensive record. Maybe because our FB don't do such a good job going forward when a lot of teams depend on their FBs to join attacks? I'm not entirely sure but Maguire has been poor and has recently been terrible.
 
Maguire has been awful, so has all of our defenders. Defensively, we have bought a few players in the last 7 years but they are all awful. Does anyone thinking our defence coaches are just not doing there job? Maguire looked fantastic under rodgers for a few months before he joined us. AWB looked great going back but its been going on a downward slope for a while. Bailey is a great talent in my opinion, but looks like a crazy man. I quite like Smalling but he is all but gone, which i think would be criminal if we let him go at this point.
 
youmeletsfly said:
When we lose I also overreact like this. Harry's alright, not VVD but he's an alright defender.

I'd be curious to see these players with a proper coaching staff. Other than Martial/Greenwood I see 0 improvements in our player since Ole came in. (maybe Fred as well)
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No he isn't and the CB scapegoated to cover for him didn't play today and look what happened
 
Not at all. It will take us 4 transfer windows and double the money to buy a replacement. Also no one would take him off us. Sanchez was exotic at least. This is what happens when you look at “culture fit” instead of talent.
 
Mindhunter said:
Not at all. It will take us 4 transfer windows and double the money to buy a replacement. Also no one would take him off us. Sanchez was exotic at least. This is what happens when you look at “culture fit” instead of talent.
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Well I wouldn't even say that we got "cultrue" part rigth with Maguire. We should get rid of the guy. He sucks.
 
I still can't believe we haven't signed a centre back this window. City, who have the same problem area, went and spent £65 million to address it. Our board, naturally, ignores it and signs a striker. It's so amateurish.
 
No.
For starters I think he is an overhyped and is an average defender. There is nothing special about him which warrants the money or hype

But at the same time, our club doesn't have the money to keep throwing and buying new players. Besides we don't have the scouts or negotiation team to buy any quality players. So even if we bring out the money it is just going to go down the drain on another hyped defender who is the flavor of the season.
That's what Woodward and his team are capable of.

So no.
 
He has feck all awareness of what's around him, he regularly jumps into our own players going for headers and dragging down Shaw highlights this again.

Awful player.
 
Sky1981 said:
A prime baressi would still be leaking goals partnering him.

You need both cb to perform. 2 average CB works better than 1 world class and a clown
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Like it or not, we spent 80 million on him and he is probably our best overall defender in the squad. We need a great defender to partner him and take the pressure off him. It really seems like he is cracking.
 
RC89 said:
Indeed it does happen, but VVD has plenty of world class performances under his belt and is regularly one of the best if not the best CB in the league so you can call it an off night.

Since signing for us, Maguire has at best been average and at worse been shocking. It's not an off night for him.

Last season, the amount of times he would be the one player playing the attacker on side.... Thankfully it didn't cost us too often. If a player shapes up to run him down the outside but instead drops the shoulder and comes inside, it's all over for Maguire, zero mobility. He fancies himself as Beckenbauer but he's a more expensive, less injury prone Phil Jones.



Today, Shaw is about to try and clear, Maguire drags him down.

Today, he literally heads the ball OFF Bailly's head. Bailly stood no chance to control it.

Bailly today actually made some crucial challenges. Maguire gets it easy cuz he's English.
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Smalling is English but he never had it as easy as Maguire.
 
He's a decent enough defender but we should have went for other options considering the price we paid. He's nowhere near worth £80m.

I think he's improved our defence, he's not afraid to stick his foot in and try win the ball at the cost of getting beaten and looking stupid. He's solid in the air and decent on the ball. You could tell he made a difference last season. This season so far, he's been awful and needs to step up soon.

In terms of selling him, there's no real point atm, he's our best CB, combined with us not being able to get anywhere near the same resell value as what we bought him for, and he's our captain (rightly or wrongly).
 
Worst part about Maguire is he is no better than much maligned Lindelof and if both are put for sale he won't be fetching more the him and I am quite certain of it. We were well and truly fleeced by Leicester, 85 m for such an ordinary defender was day light light robbery.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I said he was a stupid signing and guess what.. he was.

How are the board so inept? I'm a fecking dope with zero real knowledge of footie yet even I could see that he was an average player and that £80m was bonkers for him, and yet.. they went and bought him. His purchase is everything wrong with our club.

Ole has to take blame for his stupid "British core" policy that summer too. Maybe sign the right players for your system, not just cause they're British n' 'ard innit.
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This.
 
Forget about the 80m. That price tag is not his fault. Just compare him to his peers and if you look without bias and without agendas, you will quickly realize that Harry Maguire is our best defender. And it's not even close. Don't believe me? Well let's look at the numbers and compare Maguire to Lindeloff but also compare him to VVD. And seeing as so far this year nobody remembers how to defend (indluding VVD), we will look at the 2019/20 season:

------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

So what do these stats tell us? They tell us a lot. First off, they tell us that Lindeloff is nowhere near Maguire in any defensive category. Oh, and to be clear, I used every defensive stat available and didn't pick and chose stats to help curve the argument to Harry's favour. What else does it tell us? That over all VVD is a better defender, the stats aren't far off from each other with Maguire leading in some areas while VVD leads in others.

So in conclusion, should we sell Harry Maguire? That's a big ole hell no. You don't improve your team by selling your best players, and he is in fact our best defender whether you like to admit it or not. Should he be captain? No he shouldn't. And the recent Greece trip would have been a perfect excuse to take that away from him without controversy. But don't kid yourself into thinking Lindeloff (or even more laughable) and Bailly are better players. It's not even close...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Forget about the 80m. That price tag is not his fault. Just compare him to his peers and if you look without bias and without agendas, you will quickly realize that Harry Maguire is our best defender. And it's not even close. Don't believe me? Well let's look at the numbers and compare Maguire to Lindeloff but also compare him to VVD. And seeing as so far this year nobody remembers how to defend (indluding VVD), we will look at the 2019/20 season:

------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50

Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost

https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274

So what do these stats tell us? They tell us a lot. First off, they tell us that Lindeloff is nowhere near Maguire in any defensive category. Oh, and to be clear, I used every defensive stat available and didn't pick and chose stats to help curve the argument to Harry's favour. What else does it tell us? That over all VVD is a better defender, the stats aren't far off from each other with Maguire leading in some areas while VVD leads in others.

So in conclusion, should we sell Harry Maguire? That's a big ole hell no. You don't improve your team by selling your best players, and he is in fact our best defender whether you like to admit it or not. Should he be captain? No he shouldn't. And the recent Greece trip would have been a perfect excuse to take that away from him without controversy. But don't kid yourself into thinking Lindeloff (or even more laughable) and Bailly are better players. It's not even close...
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Exactly. I totally agree. He is probably our best defender. Is he slow? Yes. Does he make mistakes? Yes. But he is still our best defender. We should be working to find someone better to partner him and take the pressure off him. And we probably should give the captaincy to Fernandes, if things continue like this.
 
tombombadil said:
Exactly. I totally agree. He is probably our best defender. Is he slow? Yes. Does he make mistakes? Yes. But he is still our best defender. We should be working to find someone better to partner him and take the pressure off him. And we probably should give the captaincy to Fernandes, if things continue like this.
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Exactly. We should also make sure that new player is left footed so Harry can play on the right side of central defense instead of the left...
 
thepolice123 said:
His head is completely gone. He made 3 errors in row for the first goal.
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No rest, tumultuous summer and no preseason has caught up with him.

I expect better after the break though. For once I’m actually glad our players are away on internationals. Gives us a time to reset and also for others to regain their fitness and sharpness
 
I hate him with a passion. Get rid of this clown, even if its for 10 million. Cut losses now before we can't get anything off him.

A team like West ham would be dumb enough to buy this guy. Overhyped english player - yet again.
 
The fact that we can't coach a defensive unit to work together is a far bigger problem. I'd much rather push Ole to reinforce his backroom staff. Between Mckenna, Carrick and Phelan, we've not seen enough on that front.
 
The Siege said:
The fact that we can't coach a defensive unit to work together is a far bigger problem. I'd much rather push Ole to reinforce his backroom staff. Between Mckenna, Carrick and Phelan, we've not seen enough on that front.
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I agree. Yesterday's performance and our 3 games in general this season tell me that we are just not getting the right inputs from the coaching side. There is no organization.
 
Maguire would have been much more suited to a Mourinho team. Him being at a team like ours where we set out to press and attack quickly with him in a high line means that he gets exposed consistently if his positioning isn't spot on. The first Son goal was laughable defending from him: Dives in needlessly to commit a foul, then just stands there after the foul while the space he gave up is run into by Son. It was arrogance at its finest from a player that shouldn't be anywhere near arrogant on the pitch.
 
Imagine if we only signed him for 40m last summer, then this season he turned shite we could still sell him for 25-30m. That would only cost us 10-15m loss instead. How good would that be if that’s the case.
 
Still ill said:
Well no, it's a legitimate conversation considering his last 3 performances. Has been God awful so far this season. Our defence has been pretty terrible since lockdown really. Or at least since the Brighton game. I don't know where it's all gone wrong. They all seem to be constantly out of position.
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I think that half the reason they are constantly out of position is they are all looking to cover for Maguires deficiencies
 
RC89 said:
Probably due to Maguire concussing him.

In all seriousness, I'm not sure why we had such a good defensive record. Maybe because our FB don't do such a good job going forward when a lot of teams depend on their FBs to join attacks? I'm not entirely sure but Maguire has been poor and has recently been terrible.
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I've been thinking about this for a while because imo our defenders can't get bad that fast. They're not very good but you don't get that good defensive record if you're bad defenders.

Imo the biggest difference between this season and last season is our tactic. And Pogba and Matic.

Last season for the bigger part we played mostly with a counter attack approach. Which suited slow but strong players like Maguire, Matic. Or good defensively player like AWB, Shaw. We only employed the current 4231 high defensive line, FB going forward very high after the Covid break. We had a decent run but truth is our defence was not solid at all. Especially against fast counter attack.

Now Matic and Pogba. Matic got a year older and can't run as much as he used to. Pogba was injured for the large part of the last season and we played Fred, McT and Pereira. Tbh I'm no fan of those especially Pereira but at least those guys run and tackle a lot. Which lead to our midfield could protect our defence. Pogba has been dogshit and we have literally no midfield recently. Which make our defence super exposed. Teams cut through us like a hot knife through butter.

Imo Ole got all this wrong. His current tactic doesn't play to the strength of his line up but rather expose all their weaknesses. He has super slow defenders and midfielders playing a high line. And bad attacking FB going as far as the box. Him keeping Pogba doesn't help either.
 
The bizarre moment where we conceded because he pulled Luke Shaw's shirt when Shaw was trying to clear a previous error he made is the worst piece of defending I have ever seen from a Premier League defender. What was going through his mind that he would 'foul' his own teammate which led to us conceding. That alone and that the fact he's just garbage is enough a reason to strip him of his captaincy. No one will buy him at this point unless we got our friend Conte to help us. Even him, he would most likely run a mile.
 
the chameleon said:
The bizarre moment where we conceded because he pulled Luke Shaw's shirt when Shaw was trying to clear a previous error he made is the worst piece of defending I have ever seen from a Premier League defender. What was going through his mind that he would 'foul' his own teammate which led to us conceding. That alone and that the fact he's just garbage is enough a reason to strip him of his captaincy. No one will buy him at this point unless we got our friend Conte to help us. Even him, he would most likely run a mile.
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Yeah, that's should end up in PL Classic moment, he pulled Shaw when Shaw was trying to clear the ball, lost balance and ended up on the deck, Ndombele had easy shot. That whole 5-6 seconds was one of the dumbest thing PL player can do.
 
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