Should the Glazer stop backing our Managers? | United are Europe's most wasteful club

[Danish Wizard]

like who?

Was it right to sell Johnny Evans? I doubt it. He has been great for Leicester, where we gave 80 millions to them and got Maguire, who is not a huge upgrade.
I would like to have kept Daley Blind. Telles is not a better left back. And Blind could also do a better job in def midfield than Matic and several others.
Chicharito could have been a good option up front as well.

 

[Stacks]

Was it right to sell Johnny Evans? I doubt it. He has been great for Leicester, where we gave 80 millions to them and got Maguire, who is not a huge upgrade.
I would like to have kept Daley Blind. Telles is not a better left back. And Blind could also do a better job in def midfield than Matic and several others.
Chicharito could have been a good option up front as well.

Are you having a laugh? none of these players would have made any difference and made little mark when they were here. Of course it was right to sell them. They could not hold down a first team place. Did you forget how they ended with us? Forget Johnny Evans. when he was here he was never our best defender and was sold because he could not replace Jones, Rojo, Smalling or Blind so was like 5th choice. He made 12 apps. of course it was right to sell him. did he not get relegated with WBA? Leicester have a team of rejects so I guess we should also buy Drinkwater too since he won the league with them? Blind was way to weak for midfield in the premier league. He is the prototype Donny

 

[Matthew84!]

Well its money generated by the club so its not like they're taking it out their own pockets, Utd spent very little in Fergies last years and it let everyone catch up,
100m a summer isn't that much for a club the size of Utd.

 

[Skills]

I get what you're saying but that feels a bit of a romantic view, especially because i think we all acknowledge the squad needs some improving. If you were coming into the club as the manager and seeing the position our squad is in, you'd either be saying:

1. I need a budget to be able to improve the playing squad; or
2. The Board and the fans need to accept we are playing for 4th spot at best, and top 6 is a realistic target.

For me we should back the manager, but have parameters they work within (probably the DoF point).

If that's your attitude you shouldn't be interviewing for the job quite frankly, and the club should never have shortlisted said person in the first place.

The club needs to be less of an art project for incoming managers to implement some vision. They need to be coming in to do a very specific job with the group of players already at the club. The group of players that the club might be able to get in the future should have nothing to do with them, because he might not even be the right person to manage that squad.

 

[IWat]

Who picks the managers? Seems bizarre for them to not back someone they've picked unless they've lost confidence in them. The fact they've made a stream of bad appointments is their own fault.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I get what you're saying but that feels a bit of a romantic view, especially because i think we all acknowledge the squad needs some improving. If you were coming into the club as the manager and seeing the position our squad is in, you'd either be saying:

1. I need a budget to be able to improve the playing squad; or
2. The Board and the fans need to accept we are playing for 4th spot at best, and top 6 is a realistic target.

For me we should back the manager, but have parameters they work within (probably the DoF point).

What ever you think of the Glazers every manager post Fergie has been given the budget to improve the squad.
The problem has been money has been wasted

 

[M Bison]

If that's your attitude you shouldn't be interviewing for the job quite frankly, and the club should never have shortlisted said person in the first place.

The club needs to be less of an art project for incoming managers to implement some vision. They need to be coming in to do a very specific job with the group of players already at the club. The group of players that the club might be able to get in the future should have nothing to do with them, because he might not even be the right person to manage that squad.

Every manager a so-called top club would appoint, would ask those questions though surely?

The club would set an expectation of where they expect league performances to be and the potential manager would assess whether thats achievable based on budget and current squad ability before deciding to take the job (I assume).

 

[M Bison]

What ever you think of the Glazers every manager post Fergie has been given the budget to improve the squad.
The problem has been money has been wasted

Yeah i agree, that wasnt the point i was making mate, it was part of a different conversation.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

It's shocking that we have out spent City, PSG, RM and Barca while struggling to finish Top 4 again. With this fact alone (forget about our negative football for the last 9 years), the entire board in charge of football side of things should be sacked.

So far only Ed has gone but the rest who was heavily involved in the failed system are still leading figure here i.e. Arnold, Murtough, etc. With the new board, we still can't really see any improvement especially with what happened in the last transfer window except appointing Rangnick to modernise the style of play.

Sometime I really think we need to revamp the whole football structure and not just Ed passing the baton to his mate Arnold to continue the mediocre structure.

It's shameful to say this, we should learn from City how they build such a successful football structure so rapidly in the last decade. They are so dominant in the PL. No team come close to them.

 

[kopviolator]

Well they might as well put it in their pocket as it seems it does the club no good.

 

[FreakyJim]

what a waste

 

[Stacks]

I think in terms of expedtiure on transfers and wages what the glazers have sanctioned has been more than suffcient (we are near the top of every transfer net spend and wage list going) obviously the argument is there that the investement has not been there in other areas of the club most notably Old Trafford, but in terms of money spent on players its hard to fault them, how the money has been spent has been the issue.

The Glazers biggest sin though in the post fergie era has been not holding Woodward accountable, not seeing he clearly did not know how to run the football side of the club and not insisting he bring people in around him who could handle that aspect of things.

Do I think the Glazers should with hold funds for the next manger, no that isnt going to make it any better. Then we would just be and under funded badly ran club, in stead of an well funded badly ran club. What the glazers need to do is insist Arnold brings in people who have a proven track record of managing the football side of the buissness.

Of course there seems to be minimal chance that happens we will likley be stuck with people like Murtough and Fletcher, who for all the world just seem like token appointments rather than a clear desire to mend a fundemental floor in the clubs setup.

bingo. Failure after failure and he did not pay the price.

It is incredible to see Real Madrid ranked 25th in that list!

Them and Bayern don't need to spend and remain more successful regardless

Well its money generated by the club so its not like they're taking it out their own pockets, Utd spent very little in Fergies last years and it let everyone catch up,
100m a summer isn't that much for a club the size of Utd.

later years? let them catch up? like who
1) 2012 we spend £56mill to Chelsea's 86 mill (which included the likes of Lukaka, Mata, Raul Meireles, De Bruyne - most of these flopped)
2) 2013 we spent £70mill to Chelsea's 98mill (included flops like Oscar for 31mill and Victor Moses for)
so you telling me this is what made Chelsea catch up? From 2013 (post Fergie) we have outspent Chelsea and everyone. Its a lame excuse. Teams were buying guys like Andy Caroll. How did Liverpool overtake us? Was it due to glazers lack of spending in Fergie years because they were shite in 2015 like us.
3) 100m a summer is more than virtually every club in the world based off the net transfer chart which we are top of and we aren't the biggest club in the world so I dunno what you mean when you claim "club the size of united". NO ONE spends 150-200 every year or even near to it

 

[ManchesterManchester]

This has to be a rival fan trolling or someone working for the Glazers?

Should the Glazers stop investing some of the clubs money back into the club? You want the Glazers to keep even more money for themselves??

 

[devilish]

Some might say that zidane had little experience before he took over madrid and pep has little experience before he took the Barca hot seat.
let’s not go over this again and see how they get on in the next window

Zidane took over a Real Madrid who had just won La Liga and had reached the CL semi finals while Pep was youth manager of possibly the best youth team the world had ever seen in the past 30 years. We're the biggest spenders in football and yet we're close of not having won the EPL title for a decade. Its evident that whatever we're doing is wrong and that we lack the internal structure to be a success. Yet strangely enough we keep hiring from within and promoting inexperience.

While I do put a large share of the blame on the 'bankers' I refuse to believe that Woodward, Judge and co were the ones who spotted the many 'talent' United had wasted money upon. These players were spotted by our scouts and were given the nod by our transfer committee which included but wasn't solely made up of Ole.

 

[Ish]

I mean, everyone picked up on that immediately:



All that's left is to jujitsu that shit and turn the thread into a bit of friendly ribbing and entertainment.

OP recently posted he has zero managerial bias, unlike other posters on the Caf

 

[Mr PG]

With a show of hands...how many of you here kept uttering the phrase...just pay the money! when Dortmund wanted 110m pounds for Sancho?
How many of you said the same thing for Maguire when City pulled out of the race?
How many of you want us to pay 100m for Rice? same midfield that got dominated by Italy at the euros? all while City(the team with the best midfield) paid 30m for Gundogan and 60m for Rodri..

 

[crossy1686]

With a show of hands...how many of you here kept uttering the phrase...just pay the money! when Dortmund wanted 110m pounds for Sancho?
How many of you said the same thing for Maguire when City pulled out of the race?
How many of you want us to pay 100m for Rice? same midfield that got dominated by Italy at the euros? all while City(the team with the best midfield) paid 30m for Gundogan and 60m for Rodri..

The Sancho thread was embarrassing. Lot's of hate towards the board for not spending the money because he was 'definitely' going to Liverpool this summer instead.

The spending show's we've tried to spend our way out of trouble with no idea what we're doing. Until someone who isn't the manager is in charge of recruitment we will continue to waste money on players that aren't right for us.

 

[always_hoping]

How is Pochettino an elite manager?

Only in the minds of trolls or Poch fan boys.

 

[Flying high]

This has to be a rival fan trolling or someone working for the Glazers?

Should the Glazers stop investing some of the clubs money back into the club? You want the Glazers to keep even more money for themselves??

Exactly. This place makes me despair some times.

 

[Mr PG]

The Sancho thread was embarrassing. Lot's of hate towards the board for not spending the money because he was 'definitely' going to Liverpool this summer instead.

The spending show's we've tried to spend our way out of trouble with no idea what we're doing. Until someone who isn't the manager is in charge of recruitment we will continue to waste money on players that aren't right for us.

Sancho while being a good player is not worth 70m. I kept telling people there's a reason no other big teams were in for him. Very good player but 70m would have been better spent on a midfielder.

 

[Adnan]

It's been explained a couple of times what the Glazers are and their standing in the world of the 0.001%.

If the general caf still is ignorant on that particular issue, not much can be done about it.



May we ask who are your picks for a DoF? Are there names that the Glazer-spawn will have absolutely zero awareness of? AKA if you were to mention them here and they have a pool of underpaid interns trolling the caf, you might be able to float some names up into consideration?

The role of the DoF is a simple one and it requires the DoF to keep the wheel moving. And what I mean by keeping the wheel moving, is that the the DoF's job is to make sure the departments below him are functioning to a optimal level and are aligned in unison towards a common goal which will help the DoF to then better support the head coach. There's no magic wand like some like to believe when it comes to a DoF. And the three key things required to be successful when recruiting and selling players players is for everyone on the football side of the club to be aligned in their thinking, which then creates conditions for stability and continuity.

So three words to be successful (Alignment, Stability, Continuity). And those are three things that have not happened since Fergie retired because our board have still not fully given up on the manager model and it has hence caused a split in the decision making process imo, especially since 2018 when the transfer committee was created. The transfer committee should be made up of the club's recruitment staff and the head coach. The head coach shouldn't be the manager and he shouldn't be allowed to set the directive going forward, and he also shouldn't be allowed his own personal scout(Simon Wells) and assistant (Phelan) to sit on the transfer committee like we saw with Solskjaer. What you end up doing in such a situation is that you have two sides with polarising views on recruitment and the side with less resources (the Manager) ends up calling the shots. There's no way imo, that someone like Marcel Bout who is from the Dutch school and has analysed games for some great coaches like LVG and Jupp Heynckes, would sign a limited fullback like AWB.

I'm of the thinking that whoever the DoF is, has to be someone that knows the UK market first and foremost. So I'm more than willing to give Murtough a chance. And the other candidates for me would've been Dan Ashworth before he left for Newcastle and Stuart Webber at Norwich who both follow the German model from what I've read.

And when I first mentioned Ashworth on here as someone we should bring in several years ago, I said that on the basis of him working with the youth at National Team level. I Got a lot of negative feedback at the time, but he's done well and thus far proved me right.

 

[Stacks]

With a show of hands...how many of you here kept uttering the phrase...just pay the money! when Dortmund wanted 110m pounds for Sancho?
How many of you said the same thing for Maguire when City pulled out of the race?
How many of you want us to pay 100m for Rice? same midfield that got dominated by Italy at the euros? all while City(the team with the best midfield) paid 30m for Gundogan and 60m for Rodri..

Just don't listen to the fans

 

[Adnan]

Sancho while being a good player is not worth 70m. I kept telling people there's a reason no other big teams were in for him. Very good player but 70m would have been better spent on a midfielder.

I kept saying this along with a few others but were drowned out by a large section of fans on here.

The truth is that Solskjaer prioritized other positions over midfield in his 3 years at the club. And IMO it was a very naive way of attempting to create a well oiled machine, which saw us spend huge money on players that didn't suit the brand of football Solskjaer spoke about implementing when he took charge.

I've said this before and i'll say it again by adding one more name to the list. Solskjaer failed primarily due to signing AWB and Maguire and also taking advice from Mike Phelan in my opinion. Solskjaer when he first arrived at the club was making the right noises about wanting to create a high pressing team and wanting his team to run the most etc. But then when you listen to Phelan and he quite clearly states he doesn't understand the need to run as much and also doesn't believe in improving player weaknesses but would rather focus on player strengths. Then it becomes clear that Phelan is out dated in his thinking and is someone that shouldn't be relied upon for advice in the modern game. But Solskjaer had him sit on the transfer committee and Phelan himself has said that he trusts his eye over data analysis, which then puts a spanner in the works when people like Court, Bout and Lawlor use data analysis to back up the scouting.

 

[hungrywing]

The role of the DoF is a simple one and it requires the DoF to keep the wheel moving. And what I mean by keeping the wheel moving, is that the the DoF's job is to make sure the departments below him are functioning to a optimal level and are aligned in unison towards a common goal which will help the DoF to then better support the head coach. There's no magic wand like some like to believe when it comes to a DoF. And the three key things required to be successful when recruiting and selling players players is for everyone on the football side of the club to be aligned in their thinking, which then creates conditions for stability and continuity.

So three words to be successful (Alignment, Stability, Continuity). And those are three things that have not happened since Fergie retired because our board have still not fully given up on the manager model and it has hence caused a split in the decision making process imo, especially since 2018 when the transfer committee was created. The transfer committee should be made up of the club's recruitment staff and the head coach. The head coach shouldn't be the manager

That last sentence sounds like a very important distinction.

..and he shouldn't be allowed to set the directive going forward, and he also shouldn't be allowed his own personal scout(Simon Wells) and assistant (Phelan) to sit on the transfer committee like we saw with Solskjaer. What you end up doing in such a situation is that you have two sides with polarising views on recruitment and the side with less resources (the Manager) ends up calling the shots. There's no way imo, that someone like Marcel Bout who is from the Dutch school and has analysed games for some great coaches like LVG and Jupp Heynckes, would sign a limited fullback like AWB.

I can't remember: Bout didn't have 'veto power' on transfers? Was it only Ole and Woodward?

I'm of the thinking that whoever the DoF is, has to be someone that knows the UK market first and foremost. So I'm more than willing to give Murtough a chance. And the other candidates for me would've been Dan Ashworth before he left for Newcastle and Stuart Webber at Norwich who both follow the German model from what I've read.

Bolded and underlined for the Glazer interns trawling the caf. (Yes, that means you four lurkers. Copy and paste and include in your reports)

And when I first mentioned Ashworth on here as someone we should bring in several years ago, I said that on the basis of him working with the youth at National Team level. I Got a lot of negative feedback at the time, but he's done well and thus far proved me right.

 

[shaky]

With a show of hands...how many of you here kept uttering the phrase...just pay the money! when Dortmund wanted 110m pounds for Sancho?
How many of you said the same thing for Maguire when City pulled out of the race?
How many of you want us to pay 100m for Rice? same midfield that got dominated by Italy at the euros? all while City(the team with the best midfield) paid 30m for Gundogan and 60m for Rodri..

Me. I want them to keep paying the money. It's either getting spent on players or going into their pocket. It's not as if not spending stupid money on players would mean that we suddenly have extra to spend this summer. It's not going into some piggy bank. That the signings usually turn out to be complete lemons is neither here nor there.

 

[Adnan]

That last sentence sounds like a very important distinction.



I can't remember: Bout didn't have 'veto power' on transfers? Was it only Ole and Woodward?



Bolded and underlined for the Glazer interns trawling the caf. (Yes, that means you four lurkers. Copy and paste and include in your reports)

Bout, Lawlor and Court did have a veto, I think that veto was a collective one. And it was reported during Mourinho's tenure that they'd vetoed him signing Maguire, Boateng, and Alderwereild. But 12 months later the board allowed Solskjaer to sign Maguire.

And the only plausible explanation I have for that, which is my opinion. Maguire was signed on the say so of his former Manager Mike Phelan, who was also on the transfer committee.

 

[hungrywing]

Bout, Lawlor and Court did have a veto, I think that veto was a collective one. And it was reported during Mourinho's tenure that they'd vetoed him signing Maguire, Boateng, and Alderwereild. But 12 months later the board allowed Solskjaer to sign Maguire.

And the only plausible explanation I have for that, which is my opinion. Maguire was signed on the say so of his former Manager Mike Phelan, who was also on the transfer committee.

First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement, so I must do nothin’. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the Pirate’s Code to apply, and you’re not. And thirdly, the Code is more what you’d call “guidelines” than actual rules. - Joel Glazer