Seemingly it was Kamara who was offered to us for 10million. Surely we could have taken a chance here, as he is only 23 next month and would have a sell on value if he didn't work out.
Should the Glazer stop backing our Managers? | United are Europe's most wasteful club
- Thread starter Amadaeus
- Start date
I think in terms of expedtiure on transfers and wages what the glazers have sanctioned has been more than suffcient (we are near the top of every transfer net spend and wage list going) obviously the argument is there that the investement has not been there in other areas of the club most notably Old Trafford, but in terms of money spent on players its hard to fault them, how the money has been spent has been the issue.
The Glazers biggest sin though in the post fergie era has been not holding Woodward accountable, not seeing he clearly did not know how to run the football side of the club and not insisting he bring people in around him who could handle that aspect of things.
Do I think the Glazers should with hold funds for the next manger, no that isnt going to make it any better. Then we would just be and under funded badly ran club, in stead of an well funded badly ran club. What the glazers need to do is insist Arnold brings in people who have a proven track record of managing the football side of the buissness.
Of course there seems to be minimal chance that happens we will likley be stuck with people like Murtough and Fletcher, who for all the world just seem like token appointments rather than a clear desire to mend a fundemental floor in the clubs setup.
The Glazers biggest sin though in the post fergie era has been not holding Woodward accountable, not seeing he clearly did not know how to run the football side of the club and not insisting he bring people in around him who could handle that aspect of things.
Do I think the Glazers should with hold funds for the next manger, no that isnt going to make it any better. Then we would just be and under funded badly ran club, in stead of an well funded badly ran club. What the glazers need to do is insist Arnold brings in people who have a proven track record of managing the football side of the buissness.
Of course there seems to be minimal chance that happens we will likley be stuck with people like Murtough and Fletcher, who for all the world just seem like token appointments rather than a clear desire to mend a fundemental floor in the clubs setup.
Last edited:
I get what you're saying but that feels a bit of a romantic view, especially because i think we all acknowledge the squad needs some improving. If you were coming into the club as the manager and seeing the position our squad is in, you'd either be saying:
1. I need a budget to be able to improve the playing squad; or
2. The Board and the fans need to accept we are playing for 4th spot at best, and top 6 is a realistic target.
For me we should back the manager, but have parameters they work within (probably the DoF point).
What the Glazers should do is what Newcastle's owners have just done: Get an experienced Director of Football to make sure the resources of the club are being used properly.
Its obvious that they will never leave. Not until they have squeezed every penny they can out of United. So we just have to hope, in future, their greed causes them to act less like absentee landlords and ask more questions about how the club has spent £1 billion with only a few cups to shot for it
With the revenue the club generates, even with the Glazers leeching off it, United could be much more competitive if it was run properly. Its just not and hasn't been for years.
We're paying some players £300k a week to compete for fourth place. We've got a backup keeper earning the same as Bruno Fernandes. We buy players because they're good in isolation, not cos we have a vision of how they will fit together and an idea of the kind of football we want to see. Its a mess. And to solve it we've appointed John Murtough, who has never been a Football Director before.
Basicaly yes.
Official site
Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, aligned with Manchester United’s values and culture
What Rio said
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-united-fletcher-technical-director-20321562
He said: “John Murtough is obviously the football director and Darren Fletcher is the technical director.
“Fletcher is on the football pitch, he’s got his boots on and he’s working with the first-team every day and he’ll be the person that plugs back into John Murtough from a football angle.
“When they’re recruiting players, the type of player that they want, the Manchester United philosophy from years gone by that they’re trying to implement today and what the effect that player will have on the dynamic of the squad, etc.
“I think it’s having that real football energy that comes from the training field and understands the squad totally from a day-to-day perspective to then feeling for when they’re recruiting, all the areas and departments that are feeding back into John Murtough and how that looks on the football pitch as well.
“I think it could be a good partnership.”
Did you just start a new thread just to remind us that, in your opinion, Poch is an elite level manager? You totally did, didn't you
Go on then, I'll bite. What has Poch achieved within the game to be named alongside the likes of Pep, Klopp and Conte?
Yes, technical director not DoF. Read what I wrote again. I said his job is transitioning young uns from reserve teams to first team squad and all that entails, a bit of coaching and ASSISTING in other areas. In other words, what’s your opinion on this Darren?
I say again murtough is the DoF. Fletcher shoukd not be held responsible for any decisions taken by John or Ralf as consultant
In the IT world there's a saying ie garbage in garbage out. So if this very inexperienced technical director who had like 2-3 promotions in 6 months solely on merit I guess is feeding Jon Murtough crap then that will have an impact on our recruitment strategy. What I find fascinating in a very tragic way is United's obsession with inexperience. During Ole's time we had a CEO with no experience in managing a football club, a DOF with no DOF experience, a technical director with no TD experience, a manager with no experience in managing a top club and assistant managers with no experience in being assistant managers. Some might say that this formula still exist with the rare exception of Ralf Rangnick joining the club
It's not just about the Glazers. It's about the entire structure in the club.
We have sold players, who should have been kept. And bought expensive players, who never fitted into the club/team. We have been extremely poor in the scouting & recruitment department for almost a decade. That is not just entirely down to the Glazers.
Scouting must improve. The structure must be clear - who is tha man taking the final decisions. The coaching set up must have a clear vision. All these things have been poor.
The Glazers are bad, but they don't throw money at United. Them leaving (won't happen atm), will not change anything, unless the things mentioned above are fixed as well.
We have sold players, who should have been kept. And bought expensive players, who never fitted into the club/team. We have been extremely poor in the scouting & recruitment department for almost a decade. That is not just entirely down to the Glazers.
Scouting must improve. The structure must be clear - who is tha man taking the final decisions. The coaching set up must have a clear vision. All these things have been poor.
The Glazers are bad, but they don't throw money at United. Them leaving (won't happen atm), will not change anything, unless the things mentioned above are fixed as well.
How many transfer windows do you have to go through to see the parasitic Glazers leave it to dead line day, argue about a trivial million or two, blame there is not the right player right now for sale etc etc !! A lot of the the money they have spent are on players who are past it but can still sell shirts.
I honestly believe that who ever takes the next managers job will will be hamstrung under these leeching parasitic owners.
We all know we need a DM . I bet you they"ll sign someone just before the start of next season so they keep us hanging by a thread and get as many clicks as they
can .
As to backing the managers. That is their job too. Unless they're not confident in the manager they have hired. FFs
I honestly believe that who ever takes the next managers job will will be hamstrung under these leeching parasitic owners.
We all know we need a DM . I bet you they"ll sign someone just before the start of next season so they keep us hanging by a thread and get as many clicks as they
can .
As to backing the managers. That is their job too. Unless they're not confident in the manager they have hired. FFs
Why do you think Ralf would be making decisons as a consultant ? You say fletchers role will be limited too, whats your opnion on this, thats basicaly what a consulatnts role is. Its not to make desions its to give an opnion on a decsion.
Plus Fletcher is going to be having a massive infulence over the the decions made, as his feed back from the training ground is going to shape the decions being made. For someone with minimal experince outside of playing thats a huge role.
Ridiculous money is being spent on transfers. Whether it's their money or not is not especially relevant other for the purposes of whining.
Now, the state of Old Trafford is a different matter, and that truly can be laid on their doorstep.
Now, the state of Old Trafford is a different matter, and that truly can be laid on their doorstep.
The problem is not whether they back us or not. THe problem is there NO football structure, no coherent philosophy or scouting guidelines. Woodward thought he could follow the Perez gallactico strategy at RM, without understanding the football world or having the contacts, or even appreciating the pull factor that RM always had.
As you say, players then bought by Ed to sell shirts and social media, not to build a squad for the present and future. Many, many times we hear how United desparately pick up the phone as deadline day approaches in a panic
Which comes back to the problem of no DoF, poor scouting. Remember we have reports of scouts watching the same player and submitting very conflicting reports. Its a mess, and the signings of AWB, Maguire, and Ronaldo show absolutely nothign has changed. Last window some progress, but with Lingard, who is making the decions, who gave him time off. Joke, joke, joke
Some might say that zidane had little experience before he took over madrid and pep has little experience before he took the Barca hot seat.
let’s not go over this again and see how they get on in the next window
Well yes Fletcher will give training ground perspective but one would presume that’s backed up by the other coaches and not just one persons opinion. That would be a bit silly.
as for Ralf he was hired to bring build structure and probably add a bit more experience whilst the CEO changes again. Murtough will have the final say on squad building matters. Whilst he will make the decisions I hope/presume that Ralf will be a team mate and help with contacts for recruiting
Rangnick himself has said that no discussions have taken place regarding recruitment. But as we saw with the arrival of LVG in 2014, we were gonna buy Clasie, Robben, De Vrij, Vlaar etc according to reports, but ended up signing none of the aforementioned names. And the player linked to us via Rangnick is Haidara, whose attributes are of a high energy #8 and not the profile we require.
Rangnick is also a place holder until someone permanent comes in, so it would be stupid to back someone in the market whose in a temporary role. And his experience as a DoF was at two small clubs (Hoffenheim & RB Leipzig) who are both bank rolled by two of the richest owners in the game in Dietmar Hopp and the Leipzig owner Dietrich Mateschitz who is worth £20 billion.
Also you'll notice that a lot of fans will pine for DoFs from middling clubs like Monchi from Sevilla or Rangnick from RB Leipzig etc (I was the same). But none of these guys get employed by the big clubs within their own country. Take Barcelona as a example, they've had many issues when it comes to recruitment in recent years and even in their current plight, they didn't look at bringing in Monchi. Bayern brought in Salihamidzic who had never held a DoF role before over Rangnick. And why they do that from what I've read is because they know that having fully functioning departments below the figurehead (DoF) is what is gonna make the difference. And they then place people associated with the club to oversee it all.
Last edited:
I would have preferred Dan Ashworth myself, good record with Brighton. Alas he was picked by Newcastle and we have murtough. Lets see how he fares
Do you remember when I put forth the name of Ashworth several years ago and you asked me 'what has he done'
It's been explained a couple of times what the Glazers are and their standing in the world of the 0.001%.
If the general caf still is ignorant on that particular issue, not much can be done about it.
May we ask who are your picks for a DoF? Are there names that the Glazer-spawn will have absolutely zero awareness of? AKA if you were to mention them here and they have a pool of underpaid interns trolling the caf, you might be able to float some names up into consideration?
If the general caf still is ignorant on that particular issue, not much can be done about it.
May we ask who are your picks for a DoF? Are there names that the Glazer-spawn will have absolutely zero awareness of? AKA if you were to mention them here and they have a pool of underpaid interns trolling the caf, you might be able to float some names up into consideration?
What makes you think the Glazers choose the players we should sign ?
I think most probable Ole was the one choosing who to sign and he decided not to sign a DM.
We spent on transfer more than Liverpool, Chelsea and City in the last 2-3 years and we pay the biggest wages in the PL.
I believe the blame lies on the Glazers for not hiring a proper director of football, or someone competent in charge of the transfers we make.
Yes of course, but fletchers’ opinion will likely be the key one as that is literally his job. Again massive role for someone with so little experience. Doesn't mean he will be bad it but it’s a gamble, one we didn’t need to take as we could have brought in someone with a proven track record in the role.
This is hope rather than anything else. All we know is Ralf is contracted to offer opinions when asked for them over the next 2 years. Like you say the buck stops with Murtough, an internal appointment who has been present at the club through the car crash recruitment in the post fergie years, including last summer, who has no experience as a DOF (working with a technical director with no experience and a CEO with no experience) making decisions.
I don't give a flying feck about the Glazers, the money spent and so on.
I just want them to appoint people in the right position so them people spend the money, not the useless cnuts that are doing it now.
I just want them to appoint people in the right position so them people spend the money, not the useless cnuts that are doing it now.
like who?
who exactly?
again who are these past it players who sell shirts? Just Ronaldo? most of our signings are 26 and Under, especially our biggest signings.
you seem to just be venting nonsensically. They bare take 20m per year in dividends
I wish people will stop saying this. You have to a buyer who is interested in paying those valuations, and it's hard to sell players for a large fee who aren't playing. This isn't FM or Fifa where every player can be sold.
I don’t remember that, and perhaps that was before a few more years of ‘success’ with Brighton but with hindsight I was wrong
A few posters saying it: it's not about how much you spend, but rather how you spend it.
No one is complaining about the sheer amount the club has spent (not the Glazers, obviously), but how that spending has happened. It's been thoroughly moronic from top to bottom, with no plan, no nous and no competence whatsoever.
No one is complaining about the sheer amount the club has spent (not the Glazers, obviously), but how that spending has happened. It's been thoroughly moronic from top to bottom, with no plan, no nous and no competence whatsoever.
Murtough has been present since 2014 but he wasn't making decisions at first team level when it comes to recruitment. His job was to put in place structures/mechanisms etc, which created positions for 80 to 100 people who currently work in the scouting and data analytics departments. And he juggled that work with revamping the academy. And he has a history of modernising clubs that goes back almost 20 years. And before he was made the head of football (or whatever title you choose) he was working as the head of youth development and that's a role he's done since he helped Wayne Rooney come through the ranks at Everton.
Tbh with you mate, you weren't wrong and asked a fair question at the time. Ashworth wasn't well known and it was perfectly reasonable to ask what his credentials were for the job. I just found it funny that we're talking about Ashworth almost exactly 2 years to the day, hence me asking if you remembered.
Last edited:
Glazers have provided money for transfers, starting with SAF, but each time you get the feeling that they also directed how that money was spent. Which quite often appeared to lead to United's managers not getting the actual players they wanted and finished up signing their second or third choice; or in some cases the involvement of such as Woodward upped the price, Maguire being such a case!
It started with Wesley Sneijder; SAF was desperate to sign him direct from Real Madrid but Sneijder felt he was treated as a 'bargaining chip' by Madrid/United (I think its was CR's transfer going the other way) and he finished up going to Inter and winning a treble with them. There was always the suspicion of owner involvement which SAF was not happy with, because he didn't get his man.
Toni Kroos another one (LvG and Jose both wanted him) who got away! There have been many others as well. Now its possible the players just didn't want to come to United, but when the name keeps appearing, season after season, you begin to wonder!
Think this kind of 'interference' just might be the thing that pushes Ralf out the door!
It started with Wesley Sneijder; SAF was desperate to sign him direct from Real Madrid but Sneijder felt he was treated as a 'bargaining chip' by Madrid/United (I think its was CR's transfer going the other way) and he finished up going to Inter and winning a treble with them. There was always the suspicion of owner involvement which SAF was not happy with, because he didn't get his man.
Toni Kroos another one (LvG and Jose both wanted him) who got away! There have been many others as well. Now its possible the players just didn't want to come to United, but when the name keeps appearing, season after season, you begin to wonder!
Think this kind of 'interference' just might be the thing that pushes Ralf out the door!
Firstly, lets remember the Glazers are not some kindly uncle who give the club money. The money all comes one way or another from the fans, who are the club. Unlike, many owners who do put their own money in (often loads and loads), all the Glazers has done is load the club with debt and then pay themselves millons for doing nothing.
Secondly, to be any way a contender for trophies you need to spend lots of cash. They actually stopped utd spending sas you noted in the early days. The absolute worse was after the Ronaldo sale, when Utd could have almost signed anyone inteh world, they needed the cash on the balance sheet to help them refinance their debt. So we bough the likes of Valencia and others on the cheap.
The more recent issue is then how we spend. Because the Glazers dont really care, they dont care about trophies, they left it to Ed. Who had no clue and thought he was doing a Perez, when actually he was just being taken for a ride. From manager appointments to signings, he was clueless.
Which all goes to show why we need a proper football structure, a football identity, a proper DoF (ralf) and hire managers to fit that. Its really, really not hard to do, especially given our resources. But the Glazers again dont care so allow idiot bankers to run the club,
Elite managers like...............Pochetino 
Yeah, we’re not only pissing money up the wall on transfers. We’re also a fecking shambles when it comes to controlling spend on wages. Wonderful.
Elite managers like...............Pochetino
I mean, everyone picked up on that immediately:
All that's left is to jujitsu that shit and turn the thread into a bit of friendly ribbing and entertainment.
It doesn't matter whether they wasted their own money or the club's (while paying themselves handsomely for it)? Interesting take..
who exactly?
again who are these past it players who sell shirts? Just Ronaldo? most of our signings are 26 and Under, especially our biggest signings.
you seem to just be venting nonsensically. They bare take 20m per year in dividends
[/QUOTE]
Schweinsteiger, Alexis Sanchez, Zlatan Ibramahimovic all past their prime but could sell shirts
again who are these past it players who sell shirts? Just Ronaldo? most of our signings are 26 and Under, especially our biggest signings.
you seem to just be venting nonsensically. They bare take 20m per year in dividends
[/QUOTE]
Schweinsteiger, Alexis Sanchez, Zlatan Ibramahimovic all past their prime but could sell shirts
It's shameless wumming at this point.
20mill a year isn't game breaking and it is run as a business whereas before what was it a PLC? anyways the point of the thread was expenditure on players
Schweinsteiger, Alexis Sanchez, Zlatan Ibramahimovic all past their prime but could sell shirts
[/QUOTE]
so like 3% of our players. One was excellent and free, the other was still Arsenal best player recently and we thought we would be great. He was part exchange also
Your solution is to say to a new manager "you weren't our favoured choice so here's 20 million to spend"?
The problem with this idea of speculating on low value, relatively unknown players and youth is that you may just end up with the results that tend to follow from that. What do we think that teams lower down the league do? They buy in Aldi and Lidl as well, it's once in a blue moon you unearth someone of genuine quality that would be capable of CL football. Possible to unearth some gems yes, but to get a whole team together is improbable. If we think it's bad now how bad is it going to look when the manager you have already conceded is not a first choice finishes 10th because you have alighted on a managerial and recruitment strategy that epitomises mediocrity.
The results pretty clearly follow the money in football, but the money being spent doesn't guarantee that you are right in your assessments. That's what we need to seriously look at within our footballing departments.
The problem with this idea of speculating on low value, relatively unknown players and youth is that you may just end up with the results that tend to follow from that. What do we think that teams lower down the league do? They buy in Aldi and Lidl as well, it's once in a blue moon you unearth someone of genuine quality that would be capable of CL football. Possible to unearth some gems yes, but to get a whole team together is improbable. If we think it's bad now how bad is it going to look when the manager you have already conceded is not a first choice finishes 10th because you have alighted on a managerial and recruitment strategy that epitomises mediocrity.
The results pretty clearly follow the money in football, but the money being spent doesn't guarantee that you are right in your assessments. That's what we need to seriously look at within our footballing departments.
It is incredible to see Real Madrid ranked 25th in that list!