Should the Glazer stop backing our Managers? | United are Europe's most wasteful club

Amadaeus

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Not a headline no United fan want to see.

Link: https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp367/en/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nt-1-3BN-10-years-won-just-FOUR-trophies.html

Issue number 367 of the CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post ranks current big-5 league clubs according to their net spending on transfer operations concluded over the last ten seasons. Manchester United tops the table with a negative balance of more than one billion euro, ahead of Manchester City and Paris St-Germain. Fourteen English clubs are in the top 20 of clubs with the most negative net transfer spending.
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Should Glazer starts thinking twice before opening their pockets? I believe that our past managers has failed to utilize the talents they have been giving. If we had elite managers like Pochettino, ten hag, pep, klopp, or even Conte we would not have been so wasteful as we would have actually won something significant. As such, I believe that if we get our next manager right, the Glazer should continue to back the managers. Else, if it isn't one of the managers listed, then we should refine our approach and focus more on developing youth and hidden gems. The latter is still a good approach for elite managers. A lot of times big transfer doesn't work out.
 
Glazers don't put their money into the club. Thread/

Longer version is that because Glazers hand off the operation of a wealthy football club to bussiness men, these man turn the club into corporate, letting manager regimes having their own way before every hard reset. As a whole the organization is directionless with people pulling different directions while the club stagnating.

An actual culture reboot is required. The top men should be football focused and be accounted for the football side too. The manager needed help and actual DoF, board to help him as well as supervising him. And perhaps owners with serious interest in the club, putting their own money on the line, may have taking heads for the failure. Here the owners are happy with club value appreciation which means football result; progression means little to them
 
They are businessmen so they probably understand that there will be always a risk related to a transfer. What they need is help from someone who is familiar with running and directing the club which is why I really want Ralf to step up than to be a permanent manager. He might not be the best manager but he knows how structure works and knows if a manager will fit the players or not.

Since Moyes we were jumping around appointing managers that contradict another. From Moyes to Van Gaal is understandable because nobody could be as bad as Moyes. But from Van Gaal to Jose is a complete change in direction favouring short term over long term. Then after that we went from Jose to Ole, again a complete shift in direction ftom short term to long term. Not to mention all those managers have a completely different view on tactics. Had we picked Conte to be Jose's successor theres no doubt in my mind that we would have won more trophies and had less player transfers, although it only works for short term.

Tldr the glazer should support people that know what theyre doing since they and their (soon to leave) CEO knows feck all.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not a headline no United fan want to see.

Link: https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp367/en/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nt-1-3BN-10-years-won-just-FOUR-trophies.html



Should Glazer starts thinking twice before opening their pockets? I believe that our past managers has failed to utilize the talents they have been giving. If we had elite managers like Pochettino, ten hag, pep, klopp, or even Conte we would not have been so wasteful as we would have actually won something significant. As such, I believe that if we get our next manager right, the Glazer should continue to back the managers. Else, if it isn't one of the managers listed, then we should refine our approach and focus more on developing youth and hidden gems. The latter is still a good approach for elite managers. A lot of times big transfer doesn't work out.
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Er wait what....

So summer will be hey Poch you want the job, we'll never give you any cash to buy anyone and expect you to be happy with that....
 
ti vu said:
Glazers don't put their money into the club. Thread/

Longer version is that because Glazers hand off the operation of a wealthy football club to bussiness men, these man turn the club into corporate, letting manager regimes having their own way before every hard reset. As a whole the organization is directionless with people pulling different directions while the club stagnating.

An actual culture reboot is required. The top men should be football focused and be accounted for the football side too. The manager needed help and actual DoF, board to help him as well as supervising him. And perhaps owners with serious interest in the club, putting their own money on the line, may have taking heads for the failure. Here the owners are happy with club value appreciation which means football result; progression means little to them
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Exactly. The Man United company has direction, Man United the football club doesn't.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not a headline no United fan want to see.

Link: https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp367/en/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nt-1-3BN-10-years-won-just-FOUR-trophies.html



Should Glazer starts thinking twice before opening their pockets? I believe that our past managers has failed to utilize the talents they have been giving. If we had elite managers like Pochettino, ten hag, pep, klopp, or even Conte we would not have been so wasteful as we would have actually won something significant. As such, I believe that if we get our next manager right, the Glazer should continue to back the managers. Else, if it isn't one of the managers listed, then we should refine our approach and focus more on developing youth and hidden gems. The latter is still a good approach for elite managers. A lot of times big transfer doesn't work out.
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I read it last night in the BBC, surprised no one opened a discussion about it.
Yep, not a headline no United fan want to see.
 
A billion Euros in 10 years means a net spend on transfers of a hundred million Euros per season.........doesn't sound right?
everyone on here complains about the lack of spending!
 
Speculate to accumulate right? We might be the most wasteful in terms of trophies to investment, but name another set of owners who've made more in personal wealth from a football club than the Glazers. I would say the money they've made the investments have been worth it.
 
Should Glazer starts thinking twice before opening their pockets?

A wum or just a little bit clueless, history suggests this poster is both.
 
We need to continue to spend, and know that we must sell players instead of hoarding. While we do that we will see some players leaving us and becoming world class elsewhere and that’s okay. We also need to let our academy players leave for some fee. We could have had 50M last summer for Lingard and Henderson but we decided to hoard.
 
Ive actually thought about this.

I don't necessarily think I have a problem with the amount of money the Glazers spend.

It's more the waste of that money on things like :
  • Players that may not be sold after with extra waste on overpriced contracts
  • Not looking for a world class manager in their prime - rather letting some random approach to dictating who manages United and who buys their players

There's this freedom approach at United I don't like. Even when I look at Fergie and his freedom to just hire Moyes as our next manager - would it have been better if we had a group of people discuss who the next manager after Fergie would have been with the pros and cons of each one?
 
Are they backing the manager though? Its evident that Rangnick wanted a CM in January. He didn't get it. Also what's the alternative to not listening to the manager? Should they listen to Jon Murtough whose got like zero experience as DOF and to Darren Fletcher whose got like 10 minutes coaching experience under his belt?
 
United are profitable despite spending loads and not getting market value for selling players.

Complete non entity of a story.
 
I've gone on this rant a dozen times on this forum, but our scouting is absolutely shambolic.

I don't even know why we have scouts, are we really paying people to just pick the stand out player form a random team every year and then paying astronomical figures to sign them?

Then there's our coaching, I can't think of many (if any) players that have improved after joining us in the recent past. I can't even think of cheap signings, let alone the ones who have come good or improved. Players like James are supposed to be those players you spot and buy for 15-25m and then work with them to make them an important player. We fail to do that too.

I'm not surprised by these numbers.
 
It’s the managerial issue that causes the problem, each time we change manager, the club has to back them otherwise there’s no point, and each time the manager invests poorly.

Hopefully Ralf’s role next season will alter that theme.
 
No, should just hire good managers who are worth backing.
 
No. Transfers need to be checked out more and areas that we need to strengthen most.
We have bought players that we didn't need, and this is a total waste.
Pellestri, Amad, Sancho, all bought for wing, when Rahford/Martial/Greenwood/James were doing fine.
We should have bought midfielders where we were most vulnerable. We bought one but never played him much.
 
No, but I do believe a 3YR period of saving and promoting Youth whilst clearing out the squad would be good for us in the long-run.

We're unlikely to catch City signing one big player every Summer because they are doing the same and starting from a much stronger base.

If we saved three seasons worth of transfer money, focused on Scouting the four corners of the World in that time, got proper football people in-place, thought long and hard about the type of team we wanted to be and how we want to play football and THEN go out and spend £400m I think we would have a strong chance of having something really good.

Plus, in that time, we would have seen at least three or four players come through the Youth system and assert themselves as useful squad players. The difference between a good, useful Youth team player and a lad who ends up getting released can often just be opportunity. We see that from how many ex-Utd alumni go on to have good careers
 
Lentwood said:
No, but I do believe a 3YR period of saving and promoting Youth whilst clearing out the squad would be good for us in the long-run.

We're unlikely to catch City signing one big player every Summer because they are doing the same and starting from a much stronger base.

If we saved three seasons worth of transfer money, focused on Scouting the four corners of the World in that time, got proper football people in-place, thought long and hard about the type of team we wanted to be and how we want to play football and THEN go out and spend £400m I think we would have a strong chance of having something really good.

Plus, in that time, we would have seen at least three or four players come through the Youth system and assert themselves as useful squad players. The difference between a good, useful Youth team player and a lad who ends up getting released can often just be opportunity. We see that from how many ex-Utd alumni go on to have good careers
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Totally agree but it will never happen for a myriad of reasons.
 
Lentwood said:
No, but I do believe a 3YR period of saving and promoting Youth whilst clearing out the squad would be good for us in the long-run.

We're unlikely to catch City signing one big player every Summer because they are doing the same and starting from a much stronger base.

If we saved three seasons worth of transfer money, focused on Scouting the four corners of the World in that time, got proper football people in-place, thought long and hard about the type of team we wanted to be and how we want to play football and THEN go out and spend £400m I think we would have a strong chance of having something really good.

Plus, in that time, we would have seen at least three or four players come through the Youth system and assert themselves as useful squad players. The difference between a good, useful Youth team player and a lad who ends up getting released can often just be opportunity. We see that from how many ex-Utd alumni go on to have good careers
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We have more scouts than any other club in Europe. The club is either not taking notice of these scouts or just want to spend BIG on known players. City have bought players that were never heard of until they came here Other clubs have done the same. We always seem to go for the costliest players who are not always the best.
 
Lentwood said:
No, but I do believe a 3YR period of saving and promoting Youth whilst clearing out the squad would be good for us in the long-run.

We're unlikely to catch City signing one big player every Summer because they are doing the same and starting from a much stronger base.

If we saved three seasons worth of transfer money, focused on Scouting the four corners of the World in that time, got proper football people in-place, thought long and hard about the type of team we wanted to be and how we want to play football and THEN go out and spend £400m I think we would have a strong chance of having something really good.

Plus, in that time, we would have seen at least three or four players come through the Youth system and assert themselves as useful squad players. The difference between a good, useful Youth team player and a lad who ends up getting released can often just be opportunity. We see that from how many ex-Utd alumni go on to have good careers
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No top manager is going to write off 3-4 years of their own careers gambling on enough decent youth players coming through to get Champions Lesgue football. Top managers(like top players) want almost instant success.

We would be looking at managers like Roy Hodgson being the only ones interested under your scenario.
 
Bestietom said:
We have more scouts than any other club in Europe. The club is either not taking notice of these scouts or just want to spend BIG on known players. City have bought players that were never heard of until they came here Other clubs have done the same. We always seem to go for the costliest players who are not always the best.
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I think it's because we panic. We might have loads of Scouts, but it hasn't been clear who they are reporting to or if they are even pulling in the same direction with regard the type of player they are looking for.

We do seem obsessed with the idea that "the next player" will always fix everything. We need to be less precious about the idea that there are only one or two players who we could sign and more open to targeting a multitude of players and see who we can get the best deal out of / who wants it most.
 
robertsoncrusoe said:
A billion Euros in 10 years means a net spend on transfers of a hundred million Euros per season.........doesn't sound right?
everyone on here complains about the lack of spending!
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Well the average glazer budget has been about 85m pounds. So sounds right to me
 
Lentwood said:
I think it's because we panic. We might have loads of Scouts, but it hasn't been clear who they are reporting to or if they are even pulling in the same direction with regard the type of player they are looking for.

We do seem obsessed with the idea that "the next player" will always fix everything. We need to be less precious about the idea that there are only one or two players who we could sign and more open to targeting a multitude of players and see who we can get the best deal out of / who wants it most.
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Rangnick can spot a good player coming through, but will we listen to him. NO
 
devilish said:
Are they backing the manager though? Its evident that Rangnick wanted a CM in January. He didn't get it. Also what's the alternative to not listening to the manager? Should they listen to Jon Murtough whose got like zero experience as DOF and to Darren Fletcher whose got like 10 minutes coaching experience under his belt?
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Why do people keep including Fletcher in DoF conversations? It’s not his job. His job is transitioning reserves to first team squad and all that entails. A bit of coaching too. Perhaps ASSIST in other areas if he’s got time.
It’s on murtough and Ralf to at least set on us the right track this summer. They will need to work their contacts harder than before
 
golden_blunder said:
Why do people keep including Fletcher in DoF conversations? It’s not his job. His job is transitioning reserves to first team squad and all that entails. A bit of coaching too. Perhaps ASSIST in other areas if he’s got time.
It’s on murtough and Ralf to at least set on us the right track this summer. They will need to work their contacts harder than before
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I hope that's right @golden_blunder . But wasn't Murtough the one who shot Rangnick down from bringing in a CDM this January window. I read it on here by someone who showed source.
 
robertsoncrusoe said:
A billion Euros in 10 years means a net spend on transfers of a hundred million Euros per season.........doesn't sound right?
everyone on here complains about the lack of spending!
Click to expand...
hobbers said:
The Glazers should stop backing the clueless bankers picking the managers. That's the root of the problem.

Our board is so inept and spineless they were circling around a clown like Brendan fecking Rodgers after turning their noses up at Conte, because he genuinely scared them.
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everyone knows we are the biggest spenders but the "penny pinchers" excuse keeps coming out just because people want someone to lash out to and the glazers are easy target because of their hands off approach, the way they purchased us and the "no value in the market" during Fergie's years. Truth is we spent enough to build a competitive team but a combination of past it managers and our transfer committee team just keep cocking up
 
What the Glazers should do is what Newcastle's owners have just done: Get an experienced Director of Football to make sure the resources of the club are being used properly.

Its obvious that they will never leave. Not until they have squeezed every penny they can out of United. So we just have to hope, in future, their greed causes them to act less like absentee landlords and ask more questions about how the club has spent £1 billion with only a few cups to shot for it

With the revenue the club generates, even with the Glazers leeching off it, United could be much more competitive if it was run properly. Its just not and hasn't been for years.

We're paying some players £300k a week to compete for fourth place. We've got a backup keeper earning the same as Bruno Fernandes. We buy players because they're good in isolation, not cos we have a vision of how they will fit together and an idea of the kind of football we want to see. Its a mess. And to solve it we've appointed John Murtough, who has never been a Football Director before. :wenger:
 
M Bison said:
It’s the managerial issue that causes the problem, each time we change manager, the club has to back them otherwise there’s no point, and each time the manager invests poorly.

Hopefully Ralf’s role next season will alter that theme.
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You absolutely don't need to back a manager. In fact, it's the wrong thing to do.

As a club, you need to find the right marriage between the group of players you already have at the club and the guy managing them. The manager or head coach is the cheapest and most disposable part of this relationship.
 
I would sooner bring in 3 Good Players on 100k a week each that will give you 110% every game than One player who demands to be paid 400k a week and plays when he feels like it.
 
I find it very difficult to believe that some other clubs haven’t spent more. If unofficially
 
I think our bigger issue is the enormous contracts we offer, and extensions to players that just clearly aren't worth the amount involved in such renewals.

The waste of wages is a bigger problem.
 
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