Seriously, will another 'rebuild' take us any closer to the title?

Conte was the one we should have hired. Winning mentality, hard taskmaster and proven champion. I think we need to win big in 1-2 years to bust the rut we are in. The longer this rut goes the more difficult it will be to come out of it. Winning is something hard to make a habit of. And since we have already lost it really don't see us getting it back with long term plans.
 
Conte was the one we should have hired.
I was of that opinion too. But second thought with his temper and spartan approach he'd probably punch a number of guys here, make hell of a big scene while walking out.
 
I was of that opinion too. But second thought with his temper and spartan approach he'd probably punch a number of guys here, make hell of a big scene while walking out.

The probability of that happening was the same as that of us winning a PL title in a full season under him. Our players getting to know what it is like being champions. I would take a bad breakup with Conte after that, all day long. Right now our players are highly paid divas who turn up with a don't care attitude and have no goals or objectives whatsoever.
 
The probability of that happening was the same as that of us winning a PL title in a full season under him.
Given our current squad, our board and their history I'd seriously doubt this.

More like the probability of that not happening would be the same as us winning a title in his first full season.
 
Doesnt matter who the manager is, we will still overpay and buy completely wrong.
Lets be sensible. FIrstly, there was NO rebuild. Nothing, just spin. Ole just came in and tried to play nice guy, buying presents for staff and be nice to players. It worked a bit after the toxic Mou, but that was it. Zero football philosophy, so the drift and disconnect between youth, scouting and recruitment and first team continued. Ed was happy as the top reds idolised Ole and took the heat off him for his inept running of the club. Lots of PR fed to gullible journos about new scouting, data, background checks. All bullsh*T. This great new system unearther two unknow gems like Maguire and AWB, way to go. Imagine all the data that proved AWB was the next attacking full back, must have been impressive. Then all the data brought us VDB, good deal. Then we sign two promising young wingers when we cant sign Sancho. Then we sign Sancho. Then we seem to have no idea what do with young players and where to loan them, as some agents are now starting to say to press. Wow, great job board and Ole, though its 99% on board. After years of DoF planted stories and going to the great lengths of interviewin Rio (????), we hire Fletcher (???). Though noone can quite pin down what his job is. Good job Ed. Once again you f*ck up some of the most simple tasks.

So here we are. And we have fans on here spouting the same garbage. Get the 'right manager'. Ok, easy then. So he can clear out all the deadwood again, sign the right players and get the youth system where it should be? Lst like Ole did....So no DoF and football structure that might actually make that happen, instead Arnold (mini Ed) makes all the contract decisions. What could go wrong, I mean its worked really, really well so far.

Now we see all the PR regarding for Ralf for what it was. More smoke to appease us lot of gullible fools. Ralf has no power, been told not to rock the boat or change our great football philoposophy (might impact social media follows), consultant role looks dead in water. Good chance he walks in summer, club will blame him if we dont get top 4. Carry on with same disaster of last few years. Then lets debate which players and/ or manager to blame. Well done top Reds too.
 
Lets be sensible. FIrstly, there was NO rebuild. Nothing, just spin. Ole just came in and tried to play nice guy, buying presents for staff and be nice to players. It worked a bit after the toxic Mou, but that was it. Zero football philosophy, so the drift and disconnect between youth, scouting and recruitment and first team continued. Ed was happy as the top reds idolised Ole and took the heat off him for his inept running of the club. Lots of PR fed to gullible journos about new scouting, data, background checks. All bullsh*T. This great new system unearther two unknow gems like Maguire and AWB, way to go. Imagine all the data that proved AWB was the next attacking full back, must have been impressive. Then all the data brought us VDB, good deal. Then we sign two promising young wingers when we cant sign Sancho. Then we sign Sancho. Then we seem to have no idea what do with young players and where to loan them, as some agents are now starting to say to press. Wow, great job board and Ole, though its 99% on board. After years of DoF planted stories and going to the great lengths of interviewin Rio (????), we hire Fletcher (???). Though noone can quite pin down what his job is. Good job Ed. Once again you f*ck up some of the most simple tasks.

So here we are. And we have fans on here spouting the same garbage. Get the 'right manager'. Ok, easy then. So he can clear out all the deadwood again, sign the right players and get the youth system where it should be? Lst like Ole did....So no DoF and football structure that might actually make that happen, instead Arnold (mini Ed) makes all the contract decisions. What could go wrong, I mean its worked really, really well so far.

Now we see all the PR regarding for Ralf for what it was. More smoke to appease us lot of gullible fools. Ralf has no power, been told not to rock the boat or change our great football philoposophy (might impact social media follows), consultant role looks dead in water. Good chance he walks in summer, club will blame him if we dont get top 4. Carry on with same disaster of last few years. Then lets debate which players and/ or manager to blame. Well done top Reds too.
Too sensible. You'll never make it here mate. Forget your brain for once and just jump on the hype train.
 
Too sensible. You'll never make it here mate. Forget your brain for once and just jump on the hype train.
What depresses most of all beyond the money (our money) the club wastes on stupid signings and contracts, is that its really not that hard to do well. Football is full of incompetent and egotistical people that dont understand the game but want the glory. City show how with money and time and experienced football professionals running things you build an incredible football machine, Chelsea have done somethign similar. United should just follow their footprint, we also had plenty of money. Ed could ahve done it, but hes too stupid and want the glory. The secret of management is hiring the right people to do the jobs they are qualified to do, the exact opposite of what Ed has done. Instead, he makes it hard for everyone. 10 years since we made it to FA YOuth Cup final, to me much greater concern than first team trophies. Shows the foundations of this club are still rotten
 
We don't know how big "rebuild" we need. It's not just about the players quality. These last few weeks have clearly proved, that some of the players lack the right mentality to play for United. So the football quality might be ok, but if the mentality isn't up to United standards, they need to leave.
First, the club needs a new manager and a coaching set-up. How are we going to play etc. Then get a squad that fits into this. It sounds easy, but it is quite difficult - especially as it seems United try to do everything the hard way. If done right, United can fight for the title in two years time.
 
Only hope we have of getting near a title is when the leeches sell the club.

Don't know why its so hard for some to see, but the one constant in the shit storm the footballing side has been over the last 8/9 years, is those leeches in charge.

Overpay for mediocrity, left the footballing structure lagging so badly behind our competitors it will take atleast 5 years to catch up to them, if not longer.

Hire unqualified finance people to run a football and what did we expect to happen?
 
Surprised majority on here saying no rebuild needed just a good manager. The manager is just a part of the rebuild. Lets not talk f the last seven years just the current squad.

We have a squad of about 35 players, its too large, four players over 35, several reaching the end of there contracts, sevreal injury plagued players, we still have a first eleven that looks very weak in at least three positions, beyond DeGea not really a single consistent performer this season, several players that have under performed in there time here.....etc etc etc

Does anybody genuinely think any manager would take over this group of players and with just a couple of signings transform them into title winners or champions league winners?

In terms of consistency of performance individually and as a team, entertainment, desire, quality we are a long way behind City and Liverpool. Of course a rebuild is needed, but we need to do it right, for me:

1) A good manager - Of course this is important, our timing of hiring managers has been unforunate and poor. Think we definately missed a trick timing wise for both Klopp and Nagelsmann and this summer I really cant see anybody beyond Pochettino that fits

2) A clear out of players - For me this is one of the things we have got the most wrong season after season over the last decade pretty much and this summer with so mnay players out of contract and wanting to leave AND considerign our squad is so big, the excuse of struggling to offload players due to the salareis they are on....sinply isnt there. From the likes of Grant and Pereira who simply havent played to the talented failures like Pogba and Martial, our departures should be into double figures in my opinion, comfortably

3) Signing the RIGHT players in the RIGHT positions. Since Ferguson retiring, we have signed 40players and lets face it, barely any have been a huge success and for me personally so many looked the wrong signings at the time:

Moyes spent £70m on Mata and Fellaini, both were totally the wrogn players I thought at the time
LVG bought Blind, Rojo, injured Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Depay for £100m...none looked right to me
Mourinho spent £150m on Lukaku, Fred and Lindelof after a good first summer of deals....awful business, didnt think much of any of them when saw them before comign here
Ole spent close £120m on Maguire, James and VDB when for me there were far better options around

Thats approacing half a billion on players that were never right between them for me before they signed.

The list of players I genuinely thought were the right signings in the last few years is really small.....Shaw, Falcao, Romero, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Bailly and Bissaka (Varane and SAncho this season not really including as early days)....not even a player a season addign them up and only the older experienced ones have had some amount of success consistently over there time here if you forget Shaw last season, som ehav ebeen very dissapointing.

So for me THIS summer we really need a good manager 10-15 players out a centre back, right back, two central midfielers and one or two attacking options also in......get the right ones out and in and a good manager, a nucleus of 20 players with a few youngsters around them.....we could be transformed....simply a manager and 5 or so out and a couple in, no chance whoever the manager is
 
We'll get it right when we get
1)The right manager
2)The right system
3) The right players

So simple, yet so very difficult at the same time.

You skipped the 2 most important steps. The right football structure and the right club philosophy.
 
I don't think a total rebuild, just an injection of the right players in the right areas.

Firstly, the whole spine of the team needs to be replaced with players who have the right mentality, strong willed and leaders on the pitch. Goalkeeper, Centre back, 2 midfielders and 1 striker.

That's 5 players, there's about twice that amount that could be shipped out of the squad and they wouldn't be missed. Could fill in around the edges then once that is done.
 
I don't think we need "another rebuild" -

I'm quite happy with the team but it has gaps that has been needing of fixing for some time.

More a "patch up" than a rebuild.

The patch up needs to be done with the right coach though - because they end up targeting more the right style player.
 
Not rocket science actually. Our fortunes would have been vastly different had we appointed Conte, Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti when the time was right. Instead we chose Moyes, Lvg, Mourinho and OGS. None of the permanent managerial appointments have been right ones till now. I think the next one will make us. Or break us for good.
 
I don't know why people are focusing on the word "Rebuild" and being highly dramatic about it.


Could mean a few different things depending on how you look at it.

To me just means adding more better players to the team, and shipping a load off. And I think everyone is in agreement here we NEED to do that because currently our bunch are showing us this season they no where close to winning it even with the team looking top notch on paper at one stage hasn't panned out that way at all.

Obviously the right manager and systems have to be in place as well.


So not sure why "rebuild" would be annoying people, I'd say 99% of people would agree with the above. I'd be surprised if any one thinks a manager could come in here right now and win us the league as it stands, especially after seeing the antics of players this season
 
Depends what manager we get and what business we do in the summer. They got to go big. They got to make the right decisions. Probably the biggest summer for the board they have had since they have been at the club.

I hope they are ruthless.
 
I’m done with rebuilds. We’ve been to here too many times before. We need to make the most of what we have right now and take it from there. Recruiting managers with grossly different takes on the game has been our biggest problem.
 
We don't need a rebuild. We need three key things to happen.

First, we need to clear out the deadwood over the next 6 months. Some players are out of contract, others need to go, I see at least 12 players have to be moved on. If Regnick has his way this will happen.
Second, we need to appoint the correct manager- either Ten Hag or Pottecinio.
Third, we need to start signing players that will take us forward, players who are ambitious and want to win titles, stop signing players who are only interested in money and who are weak mentally. We need to start to carry out proper due diligence to make we don't waste money as we have over the last 8 years.
 
I'm not sure about anything with United anymore but just hope we'll start playing some progressive football in near future with modern manager.
 
I'm not sure about anything with United anymore but just hope we'll start playing some progressive football in near future with modern manager.
I’m starting to think Rangnick might get enough of a tune out of this squad that they’ll give him the job permanently instead of the consultant position (DOF I guess). Then it will all inevitably go to shit within 12 months, he’ll get sacked and we’ll be without a manager or a DOF. Again.
 
It's never ending with this stuff.

Give it a a couple of years and even Rashford and Greenwood will be thought of as having failed to hit their potential and need to be moved on.
Heck, many already think Rashford is in that boat. Although he scored 2 in 2 which normally hushes them for a bit.
 
Our problem is we have been appointing managers who have very differing ideas from eachother, which prompts all these so-called rebuilds.

LVG’s ideal players and style is totally different to Jose’s ideal players and style, and then Solskjaer tried to emulate latter seasons Ferguson which was outdated and he wasn’t Ferguson.

Next manager should have fundamental similarities in style of play to what Ralf will hopefully have in place come May.
 
key to Man city success
Chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak identifies the brand of football city want to play: Barcelona 2008-2012 model.
Hire ex Barcelona vice president Ferran Soriano in 2012 as chief executive
Hire Txiki Begiristain former Barcelona technical director as director of football in 2012.
Appoint Pep Guardiola former manager of Barcelona as manager in 2016.
Backs them with financial resources to achieve this project. Walla!! Everybody pulling in the same direction, becoming the most dominant side in the premier league.
 
I’m starting to think Rangnick might get enough of a tune out of this squad that they’ll give him the job permanently instead of the consultant position (DOF I guess). Then it will all inevitably go to shit within 12 months, he’ll get sacked and we’ll be without a manager or a DOF. Again.
That's quite possible actually, would be a United thing to do. Hope it doesn't go that way. Think Rangnick is good enough option as an interim, but anything beyond that would be a mistake. He's obviously got great football knowledge but is he good enough as a manager, not sure.
 
2 midfielders and the right manager and we're right there

Any talk of rebuild is done by those who can't see further than their own nose and base their opinion on players current form rather than the player they have been
 
We’re miles off, just like always been since SAF left. We have about 3-4 players that are good enough to win titles at this stage in their career, a number that maybe could, a lot that want out and quite a few that will never be good enough.

I can’t see any manager that can come in and make these players compete at level required to win the league. The ability and or mentality just isn’t there. Concerns me
we waste another 12-18 months assessing players again or waiting for them to come good before coming to same conclusions and just repeating the cycle.
 
The truth is we haven't had a top four midfield in a decade and the game has come to revolve around having a solid midfield that is capable of controlling a game. We've fallen behind in terms of technological advancement, analysis, training methods and data-oriented tactical development. These are issues we're slowly starting to improve. However, players matter a whole lot. If we had gotten Kanté instead of Chelsea we would be doing so much better. Because then our midfield would basically be Pogba, Herrera and Kanté. Which is a title winning midfield. The second part of that is that we've missed out on managers who obviously were destined for greatness. Pep when Fergie retired, Klopp when Woodward messed up the sales-pitch completely and Pochettino (I know opinions on him are divided) when we sacked Mourinho. A solid midfield and a high quality manager is really all that stands between us and a solid foundation to build a proper challenge.

Hopefully we have changed the decision making structures at the club sufficiently to make good footballing decisions instead of prioritising profits and marketability.
 
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You don't go a decade without challenging for the title and suddenly become a challenger after a single rebuild. The club is now a top four challenger, Arsenal in Wenger's final few years.
 
The issue has always been that whenever we change a manager, the new manager brings in a completely different footballing philosophy as the previous one, and the rebuild required becomes close to a 3 year job instead of plugging in 3-4 players.

Take LVG's united for example - we lacked depth and there were weaknesses, but we genuinely were a top striker, a midfielder and maybe a RW away from actually competing. In Mou's case it was CBs away (and I'm not counting RB because Mou did buy Dalot, and while he turned out to be shit, you could have said that the rebuild was complete). In Ole's case, one has to say we were a DM and maybe a RB away. Look at the side now, and it seems we'd need to change a bit everywhere to compete as Rangnick's play style is quite different.

Add to that, we somehow stagger our rebuild over multiple years. Like, for example, we needed a DM this season - go on and sign that DM even if it means overpaying by 20m odd as over the long term - if he becomes a success and stays here for 8-10 years - no one is going to question the transfer fee.
 
Personally, I don't believe we need a rebuild at all. For all Ole's faults, he did a reasonable job of rebuilding and establishing a young squad with a good core. The squad still needs attention in some areas, most obviously in midfield, but its not like we need five or six players anymore.

What we need is a manager who gets the most out of the talented players already at the club, and improves the young players. We need a manager who plays a modern style and isn't 10 years behind the times tactically.
 
1. Give autonomy to the club's recruitment department, who then set the mid to long term plan.

2. Appoint a head coach (not manager) who fits into the above.

3. Recruit players with a common goal in mind, as outlined in equation one, and the chances of creating a well oiled machine increase ten fold.

It sounds simple, and it is simple but old habits sometimes die hard. And our issue has always been that we've entrusted Managers, to not only coach the team but to also head the club's football department. Mourinho had his own independent scouts and Solskjaer also had his own personal scout, and they made a mess of recruitment. Fergie was a anomaly who ended up at the club for 26 years due to his genius and we shouldn't expect every manager to be like him because that's not a normal expectation in this day age and when the role in question statistically has a short shelf life.

Our rivals Liverpool and City appointed Michael Edwards and Brian Marwood to kick start their recruitment departments. If we had hired both, some you would've been in despair due to their lack of experience. Brian Marwood who joined City from Nike, had already overseen a title success before he brought the two ex Barca chaps to the club.

But the formula for success was simple, everyone works towards a shared goal, and the guys heading the football departments (Marwood and Edwards) called the shots. It wasn't always like that for Edwards, though, due to Brendan Rodgers undermining him with his own personal scouts. I feel similar has happened at United with Mourinho and Solskjaer being allowed their own personal scouts.
 
Let's not encourage mediocrity again in the name of hoping for a rebuilding, adopt the Chelsea pattern which is ;

1. Getting the one of the best available managers quickly without delay

2. Backing the manager up with transfer funds and an efficient recruitment personnel

3. If the results are not going well, give the manager some time, if it still does not improve, Sack the manager and go after the best one available.

4. Hire a director of football with a football background to oversee off pitch football affairs so that the CEO can focus on non football affairs.

5. Humbly ask the '92 class ex-players to give the club a breathing space, enough of all these hovering around.

6. Hire some quality scouting team, you can pay Dortmund and Leipzig to hire theirs.

7. Never delay in offloading non performing players, no emotion should be attached.

Have a nice day
 
I’m happy with gk options.
Happy at Cb and LB, but we do need to look at the right
If pogba goes we need 2 cms
And I think we need a striker to replace cavani and ronaldo

rb
Dcm
Cm
St

and sell the dross too
 
Let's not encourage mediocrity again in the name of hoping for a rebuilding, adopt the Chelsea pattern which is ;

1. Getting the one of the best available managers quickly without delay

2. Backing the manager up with transfer funds and an efficient recruitment personnel

3. If the results are not going well, give the manager some time, if it still does not improve, Sack the manager and go after the best one available.

4. Hire a director of football with a football background to oversee off pitch football affairs so that the CEO can focus on non football affairs.

5. Humbly ask the '92 class ex-players to give the club a breathing space, enough of all these hovering around.

6. Hire some quality scouting team, you can pay Dortmund and Leipzig to hire theirs.

7. Never delay in offloading non performing players, no emotion should be attached.

Have a nice day

You have made some good points there, but we have stumbled at point 1 the moment Fergie stepped out. We never got the best manager possible, not even the second or third best option.
 
The reality is that for us to challenge in the league we need City and (to a lesser extent) Liverpool to come back to us.

City did a brilliant job in building for Pep's arrival 2/3 years before he came. My hope is that when he leaves for his next gig, he'll take a lot of the coaching ticket with him. As for Liverpool, I think they will have a huge job replacing Klopp.
 
We don't need a rebuild, we need two midfielders and a coach. The squad is not bad, just unbalanced.