SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

All of that is wrong. You keep making up your own facts and brand of science. :lol: :lol:

Just show me what is wrong then? Surely that’s better than a green smilie? Educate me.

Ahhh now I see @Prometheus, 90,000 was the Swedish number of deaths per year. Had that in my head. UK is of course, as I said in my original post around 1500 per day.
 
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Johnson&Johnson is now "cautiously optimistic" to have a vaccine ready at the start of 2021, so might be significantly less than 12-18 months.

I also don't think the strict lockdown will last anywhere near 6 months tbh. Social distancing could probably be a thing for the rest of the year or so but the economy and people working will pick up again before summer.
I really don’t think we will loosen up anything before vaccine.
 
I really don’t think we will loosen up anything before vaccine.
They won't be able to keep the people in their homes for the rest of 2020. People would riot during the summer.
 
There's no way a full lockdown lasts more than 2/3 months, for better or worse.
 
Surely the China numbers look less and less likely? But I fully acknolwedge that I have no facts to back it up but more of logical conclusion, stepping into conspiracy theories.
I would argue it's not really outlandish nor a "conspiracy theory" to question presented data given by an unreliable source (CCP), especially with available secondary data that seem to contradict the narrative, such as huge drop in cell phone subscriptions in China, amount of urns in funeral homes in Wuhan, etc.

CCP's silencing the doctor whistleblower Li Wenliang alone should tell you who we're really dealing with here.
 
I guess when the inevitable social unrest in poor areas and regions begins, you guys would advocate for the military to step in.
What alternative would you propose in that scenario, out of curiosity (assuming it's beyond the capabilities of regular police forces)?
 
What do you do with a ventilator when it stops being a ventilator?

There will be a world wide glut of the things when this is all over, maybe Dyson are designing one that converts into a carpet cleaner when its ventilating days are done?
Donating to poor countries/hospitals who will never be able to afford it.
 
Surely the China numbers look less and less likely? But I fully acknolwedge that I have no facts to back it up but more of logical conclusion, stepping into conspiracy theories.

Unless you're homeless with no relatives (which is very rare in china), your family would be bound to at least ask how are you doing in the hospital, if you're deceased the government would release the names (data, initials, etc). I don't think it's possible for China to detain the names, if they erase it out of thin air people would start questioning what happens with their loved ones.

Say you're my uncle, you're hospitalized, I sure as hell would check up on you. If you die and the government decides you're one of the names they won't divulge then you can be sure I will raise the issue.

China isn't north korea, there are reporters there from all over the world. There are expats, there are other nation's ambassadors, tourist, attache, etc. If there are foul play we'd be hearing more concrete accusations from many other nations.

Wuhan has like 10-12M? people? If the number is much higher say 2x or 3x the official reports, there's no way that city would hold, the contagion spreadings would be 3x-4x. China released 100k positives, if you suspect there will be more people sick than hospitals, chaos would ensue, long ques outside hospital, people dying etc. And so far that hasn't happened or we would have known.
 
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I thought Derbyshire police putting black dye in the lagoon was a bit shitty. Stopping people to make sure they have good reasons to be out is one thing, but fecking with the landscape to make it less appealing just seems like an asshole move.

If it was actually anything of value then I'd agree, but it's a toxic, acidic literal dump that happens to have turned a nice colour through sheer chance of all the rubbish corroding in it.
 
Surely the China numbers look less and less likely? But I fully acknolwedge that I have no facts to back it up but more of logical conclusion, stepping into conspiracy theories.

Yes.

This curve of their recovery just looks artificially manufactured after the 'peak'.

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Increasingly, I think them changing the testing criteria halfway through was done just to muddy the data to stop anyone looking into any deeper when they started announcing recoveries.
 
We are a joke of a country for allowing this*...

https://thehill.com/regulation/cour...tening-to-fire-workers-for-speaking-out-about

Hospitals threatening to fire workers for speaking out about coronavirus shortages: report

At least two health care workers have been fired after speaking out about the need for more coronavirus tests and protective equipment as hospitals across the country warn doctors and nurses not to publicize pandemic-fueled shortages of medical supplies.

An emergency room doctor in Washington state was fired last week after criticizing working conditions at his hospital where he had worked for 17 years, and a Chicago nurse was fired after warning colleagues their assigned masks offered inadequate protection against coronavirus, according to reports.

“Nurses and other health care workers are being muzzled in an attempt by hospitals to preserve their image,” said Ruth Schubert, a spokesperson for the Washington State Nurses Association. “No health care worker should face being disciplined or fired for speaking the truth.”



*among other things
 
There's no way a full lockdown lasts more than 2/3 months, for better or worse.

I don't that's the intent behind it anyway. The lockdown is there to get the cases back to a manageable level again where it's feasible to test & contact trace the infected. I imagine things such as travel & mass gatherings to remain restricted, but most of normal life will resume.
 
Well not when you consider that a large chunk of those deaths would by all accounts over Europe, be part of those overall death statistics at the end of the year regardless.
What accounts?
They have underlying conditions in most cases but we don't know if any of those underlying conditions would have resulted in death this year. It might be the case but we don't know yet unless there is a study I missed.
 
They won't be able to keep the people in their homes for the rest of 2020. People would riot during the summer.
People who are home and well will riot when they know that will likely lead to them being infected whilst at the same time their health system will collapse?

Unlikely assumption IMO, if the government can still cater to basic needs.

I think the lifting of lockdown measures will be very gradual, and only when health systems have returned to a basic level of normal functioning. It's the only thing that makes sense.
 
I thought Derbyshire police putting black dye in the Buxton lagoon was a bit shitty. Stopping people to make sure they have good reasons to be out is one thing, but fecking with the landscape to make it less appealing just seems like an asshole move.
Its not the first time they have done this. The water is toxic yet is a favourite place to congregate. They probably would have dyed it even without the threat of Covid19. IMHO it is a non event and certainly nothing to get upset about in these difficult times.
 
Unless you're homeless with no relatives (which is very rare in china), your family would be bound to at least ask how are you doing in the hospital, if you're deceased the government would release the names (data, initials, etc). I don't think it's possible for China to detain the names, if they erase it out of thin air people would start questioning what happens with their loved ones.

Say you're my uncle, you're hospitalized, I sure as hell would check up on you. If you die and the government decides you're one of the names they won't divulge then you can be sure I will raise the issue.

China isn't north korea, there are reporters there from all over the world. There are expats, there are other nation's ambassadors, tourist, attache, etc. If there are foul play we'd be hearing more concrete accusations from many other nations.

Wuhan has like 10-12M? people? If the number is much higher say 2x or 3x the official reports, there's no way that city would hold, the contagion spreadings would be 3x-4x. China released 100k positives, if you suspect there will be more people sick than hospitals, chaos would ensue, long ques outside hospital, people dying etc. And so far that hasn't happened or we would have known.
Well said.
 
People who are home and well will riot when they know that will likely lead to them being infected whilst at the same time their health system will collapse?

Unlikely assumption IMO, if the government can still cater to basic needs.

I think the lifting of lockdown measures will be very gradual, and only when health systems have returned to a basic level of normal functioning. It's the only thing that makes sense.
I don't mean riot in the usual meaning, but they would simply find backdoor routes to escape the measures or don't follow them at all. Even know we still have young people throwing lockdown parties every weekend, in the midst of the crisis. Can only imagine what it's gonna be like in the summer if everyone still needs to stay inside by then. During summer you'd have people going over to their friends for BBQs and stuff (walking in the streets is allowed so who's gonna stop them from walking to another house anyway), and it will just have been to long (lockdown for 4 months) for the people to still follow the rules without complaint. Right now it's "easy" because most know it's necessary and for the greater good, but by then, they'll have developed a "feck it" mentality, especially those who aren't exactly likely to die or greatly suffer from it should they still get Covid-19.

Definitely agree that the measures will be lifted gradually. There's been talk here of schools re-opening first (as soon as after the Easter holidays is on table right now, which is April 19th), then employees getting back to work again (mid-May?) and pubs/bars/restaurants will be opened lastly (rightfully so). Regarding mass events like festivals, can't see them taking place anymore in summer or even behind that in 2020. At this point I'd be delighted to be able to throw a legal garden party or BBQ in July or August with my friends.
 
What alternative would you propose in that scenario, out of curiosity (assuming it's beyond the capabilities of regular police forces)?
I honestly don't have the means nor the expertise to give you a reasonable answer. The world leaders must take responsibility for being inadequate and not making the right decisions for the sake of the whole populace.

As I said previously, if things don't change drastically soon, I can see a huge shift in policies in the whole European Union. My country is the poorest in the EU and we simply cannot survive this due to so many factors, one of which is that our political system has been incredibly corrupt since the changes in 1989 after the fall of the Soviet Union (not that it wasn't corrupt before that, but it's a different topic altogether). It's very realistic that in 2-3 weeks, people will start to question how are they going to survive and it will get very ugly.

We only have 399 official cases of the virus with 8 people confirmed to have passed after having severe symptoms. But the lockdown has been severe for 2 weeks now, mainly because our health system has been organised extremely bad and is being ran to the ground by the corrupt governments. The government now passed a bill to take a €5 billion loan, because apparently we already have no money left, though it was proclaimed throughout the years how incredibly good the fiscal policy has been and how our economic growth was one of the best in Europe. In reality, none of that is true and the leaders purposefully skew the statistics and the only who benefit are the financial and criminal structures, that have influence or are influenced by the political figures in power. The majority of small and medium sized businesses live month by month, they already are burdened by loans, mortgages, overdrafts, investments in goods or all sorts of tools for their work. It will be a total nightmare very soon and the only measures proposed by the government is more loans basically. Our financial minister had the audacity to say that this crisis will weed out the inefficient and ineffective businesses of those that don't have the financial resource to survive, whilst the same person has been publicly accused of corruption, but of course no action was taken because he is part of the ruling party and ruling elite.
 
My brother's gf has been in hospital for 2 weeks with pneumonia but tested negative for corona.

A hospital worker we know was at home sick with flu symptoms, she was asked if she had a fever, ahe said no. Was told to go back to work and after feeling worse she tested positive and has infected many people in the hospital.

When will employers stop thinking about the bottom line and become human?
 
My brother's gf has been in hospital for 2 weeks with pneumonia but tested negative for corona.

A hospital worker we know was at home sick with flu symptoms, she was asked if she had a fever, ahe said no. Was told to go back to work and after feeling worse she tested positive and has infected many people in the hospital.

When will employers stop thinking about the bottom line and become human?
Never probably
 
It's really pissed me off, along with that Lord trying to get his name in the media by piping up about it.

Do people think any of us actually enjoy being in work at the moment? Having to deal with people suspected of having the virus, those that have died in the community and going into house after house dealing with other incidents placing ourselves and our loved ones at risk? We'd love to work from home, protect our families and keep ourselves out of harm's way yet we have a job to do like other key workers. This bizarre criticism will damage morale.

I'm sorry to hear that. Have you been briefed to act any differently today?

Honestly it's a terrible way to treat you. The NHS is being rightly and unanimously praised, meanwhile the police are continuing to risk contracting Covid whilst having to deal with the normal hazards and dangers of policing at the same time, yet people are shitting on them for doing their best in a very difficult situation.

For what it's worth, I'm grateful. Cheers.
 
What accounts?
They have underlying conditions in most cases but we don't know if any of those underlying conditions would have resulted in death this year. It might be the case but we don't know yet unless there is a study I missed.

@Dr. StrangeHate The elderly with underlying conditions are at the greatest risk of dying if infected with this virus.

I can only speak for Sweden but of the 180 deaths, 75 were aged 80-90 and 41 aged 90+, with underlying conditions.

So yes, this demographic with underlying conditions, many were likely to be in the numbers of deaths for this year. I’ve little doubt it mirrors everywhere.
 
My brother's gf has been in hospital for 2 weeks with pneumonia but tested negative for corona.

A hospital worker we know was at home sick with flu symptoms, she was asked if she had a fever, ahe said no. Was told to go back to work and after feeling worse she tested positive and has infected many people in the hospital.

When will employers stop thinking about the bottom line and become human?

Does the employer pay the sick leave Stan?
 
Am I the only one who has no problem with the police going overboard with enforcing the lockdown?

The media are now going after the police, saying it's heavy handed to clamp down on people driving to remote locations for exercise. It has even lead to the government to tell the police not to be so heavy handed.

As far as I'm concerned, the cops can't be heavy handed enough. People have behaved like idiots. Telling the police to back down and let people carry on being idiots sends the wrong message.
Yeah there's no way this sort of stuff could back fire on us in the future. I mean I'm sure handing over more powers to the police has throughout history being a perfectly fine thing to do. The fact is not everyone has a good relationship with the police(Even though I live in tory land central, my local force are sadly bell ends of the highest order). I get that you're scared but come on.
 
How is it possible that planes full of people are arriving in the UK with absolutely no screening whatsoever?
 
Not sure if it's posted yet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext

TLDR; the new estimated death rate for this virus is 0.66%. This is about 6.6 times higher than the death rate of regular flu. For young people it's significantly lower, for old people significantly higher.
The death rate for flu isn't constant among different age groups. The chance of dying is a lot higher for people aged 20-40 from covid compared to flu. Really, really small in both cases obviously.