Rangnick couldn't build Bolton in 1000 years.
Rome wasn't built in a day
- Thread starter VP89
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This 100%. I was basically saying the same to someone who said we should have got Conte. If we got Conte, i give it two years at best before the players down the tools again and we are back to looking for a new manager. The only way we can justify this is by winning the PL or CL. Which if i was betting i doubt we would do, given the competition.
The impression i get from the club now is they are trying to go down the route of an attacking philosophy. But it will take time. It took klopp two years.
Ole did a reasonable job for the last 2 seasons. I certainly thought it was headed the right direction. This season for many reasons has gone south badly and ultimately he deserved to lose his job.
Ralf has come in and hasn’t so far been able to correct the course. But he absolutely deserves more time and patience to fix things. There have been a few positive signs I think including the 1st half today were I thought we were pretty impressive.
Ralf has come in and hasn’t so far been able to correct the course. But he absolutely deserves more time and patience to fix things. There have been a few positive signs I think including the 1st half today were I thought we were pretty impressive.
I at least agree with all of this.
It easier to implement straight away a counter attacking style where you have ten men behind the ball and hit them on the break.
I'm not going to get all top red about him but he's doing the right things in my opinion. It's always seemed likely to me that some of these players wouldn't fit into a pressing team without a massive coaching project. And some won't ever fit in. This is major surgery.
Is true but remember that Liverpool had to change their ownership structure (twice) to achieve their current level of relative success. I don’t see any circumstances where this will happen here, and with zero confidence that our current owners can implement let alone see/identify the required changes necessary for long term sustainable success. They are not going any time soon. The next few years against the state owned clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea etc will require strategic thinking off the pitch that is clearly lacking at this club based on recent history.
I've seen this sentiment in this thread a couple times now, and I must ask - what things is he doing right at the moment, in your opinion? What has he had now, 10 games? And we've had maybe one where one could argue we were actually better than our opponent on the day.
He keeps chosing the same starting XI as Ole and expecting different results, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable change since he came in? Compare that to the change Chelsea, Tottenham etc have had after changing a manager? Could probably include Crystal Palace in there as well, maybe even Villa at a push.
We seem to constantly be making the wrong (or the least right) decision in every possible aspect, from the CEO to the tea lady, it's almost like a cloud of uncertainty and doubt over the whole place, constant bickering and other avenues to take focus away from what's happening on the pitch.
It's been years and years since we consistently moved forwards as a club, we've been peddling water (at best, moving backwords at worst) the last decade, with absolutely nothing to prove we're currently heading in the right direction.
No one is asking us to build rome. All most want is to not be dominated by every side.
We're much better tactically under Ralf than Ole.
Ole had zero shape defensively as a defence and a team.
Ole managed to get approx 3 seasons to make the squad and players better.
I feel Ralf would do more in less time if he was backed.
The problem is we hire very knowledgeable managers in Jose and Ralf and don't then back their ideas when they say certain players are shit and not good enough.
Maybe we should try backing the managers that know what they're doing.
Ole had zero shape defensively as a defence and a team.
Ole managed to get approx 3 seasons to make the squad and players better.
I feel Ralf would do more in less time if he was backed.
The problem is we hire very knowledgeable managers in Jose and Ralf and don't then back their ideas when they say certain players are shit and not good enough.
Maybe we should try backing the managers that know what they're doing.
Precisely this. There is no quick solution. We need some bloody good midfielders to take control of the matches as required.
Yes, hiring Conte would have gotten us through the season with his defensive tactics and 352 formation. But that's only papering over the cracks. I am quite confident that by end of Feb, he would have figured how to play. Yes, will be too late but it will be a good head start for next season.
This is our level. We will finish 4th or 5th and the teams above us are rightfully there. The gulf in quality justified our current level.
Dalot, McT, Fred, Matic, Rashford etc. These are not players of top 3 quality.
Dalot, McT, Fred, Matic, Rashford etc. These are not players of top 3 quality.
The previous regime obviously got more faith from being a living legend at the club, and being a world class football player in his career, while Rangnick's career highlight is playing for VfR Heilbronn and promoting random shite German clubs.
That's a really odd accusation to say he's choosing the same 11 as Ole. He effectively changed both full backs very quickly and there's no way Ole wouldn't have played Maguire and Rashford today.
There's really only one furthee change left which Ralf could make and that's VDB.
They're still working on it to this day to be fair.
Fair enough, I should've specified I wasn't talking about just the game today. Overall, Rangnick's teams and Ole's teams have been fairly similar, yes he might have changed the full-backs, but let's be honest, they were not the major problem in our squad anyway. Telles and Dalot has done well, but they were already in and around the squad under Ole, obviously playing less than currently. I don't know why Maguire was missing today, and if Ole had played Rashford after his performance last week, this would've been the week he got sacked.
EDIT: The less said about the enigma that is DVB, the better.
We have 2 games in hand though lets not forget.
What a stupid thread title!
The Colosseum is probably in better shape than Old Trafford. Perhaps we could play there.
He's telling the players to high press and trying to show them how. Very occasionally some even do it. Most of them just look grumpy and knackered. Maybe he's a crap coach. Maybe they aren't listening. Maybe they are trying but aren't able to do it yet. Maybe a mixture of all three.
The next step will be to get rid of the ones who don't do it. That might even turn out to be most of them. So be it.
I really don't mind if we finish one place above the relegation zone while this plays out. There is no real alternative so we might as well get on with it. Yes it would be better if Poch or ETH was here now but that's not possible. RR is far from ideal but rather him than a more charismatic coach who is ultimately a tactical dead end like Conte or Zidane.
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I agree with putting more blame on the players. Some of them have been through a good few managers now and have consistently been playing below par. There is only a handful out of the current squad (bar the youngsters) I'd be opposed to getting rid of, and a good few I'd be happy to see the back of. Sacking managers and relieving the players of any blame is like shooting yourself in the foot, and it's baffling to me how little blame the players have received over the last few years, compared to our managers.
Something definitely has to change, we've tried changing the manager, it's time to put our focus solely on the players and what they're producing.
I might be in the minority, but I honestly don't see any single manager, available or not, that would take our squad into title winners as is.
Blame yes, I'm not sure it's their fault tbh. They weren't recruited with this style of play in mind, and they have received sub par coaching from " pe teacher " for a few years so what can you expect? The reality is that some of them just aren't suited to gegenpress football and the ones that are will take a while to learn it.
No I agree with that as well, I don't think any one group is solely responsible for what has happened to United. They are all to blame, but so far under Moyes, Mourinho and Ole the players have pretty much escaped unscathed in the aftermath of a manager getting the sack. Hopefully the people above, pulling the strings are finally realising changing the manager (and playstyle) every few years is just papering over the cracks. The issues run deep, and as you say will take time to sort out. I'm just worried we'll sink another few years chasing this play style, only to realise it's not working and doing another 180, only to repeat the same process.
I realise the days of Fergie and Wenger are gone, and we're not likely to see any manager vacate a position for that length of time again, but we're so far behind other clubs, with clear and precise plans on how to constantly move forward and improve, while it seems we're constantly fumbling in the dark, no idea what might happen next.
Completely agree but just like everyone else in the last 15 years any manager is operating with one hand tied behind the back
Some day we'll get the right manager and players, we'll be back.
oh God not again! We have now been through enough to know when the process is in the wrong direction. Everything at this club is a mess.
I don't really care about how Mourinho is going to rebuild Roma. But lets focus on Man Utd and how are we going to improve our midfield this winter.
Sack Nero, sell Ceaser
47 days......
If you were alive.
Sure, but I bet the Roman's made some pretty decent progress after 8 years, rather than keep getting it wrong, pulling it down, and starting again.
Ah I see what the thread title means - we both need 10,000 windows.
Still waiting for tactics and patterns.
I don't agree or disagree with the OP, but it's just hilarious to me that I could probably do a search and find similar threads made after the appointments of Moyes/LVG/Mourinho/Solskjaer.
The players have packed it in. They're happy to let a temp manager take the fall. If players aren't on board no progress can be made
I don't trust this club to get, anything right in the foreseeable future.
We've had so many false dawns, that I've accepted the fact that we're shit, and that we will remain shit for years to come. We won't win the league and/or the champions League within the next 15 years.
An FA Cup every now and then would be absolutely marvelous. Our time is officially over.
We've had so many false dawns, that I've accepted the fact that we're shit, and that we will remain shit for years to come. We won't win the league and/or the champions League within the next 15 years.
An FA Cup every now and then would be absolutely marvelous. Our time is officially over.
- Tried his 4222 = failed (press and half press)
- Tried a 532 = failed (press and half press)
- Trying a 4231 now (press)
- Carrot approach with the players = failed
- Stick approach with the players = failed (we all have seen the fallout).
He even played Jones and is starting to drop players using injuries as the reason, old school techniques. All the players needed a kick and in the long run they'll be better for it.
The club needs to back him and do this now, as we need two CDMs and clear out the unused players, for the good of the players and the team.
Then the next step will be another youth player then. Because that is what he has just done on the left - dropped a 73m player.
I hope to see that Norwegian kid soon I think he's fecking ace.
If a youth player is on the bench in the next match, they'll be the next up.