Rio Ferdinand says Manchester United must write off the next two years in their latest rebuild. But is he being too optimistic?

A lot of people who seem to know better then the next... We need a midfield for the lesser than smart here. Again I respect every opinion.
 
Let's not put an artificial timeline on getting back to the top. Let our new formed football structure.
 
Stop listening to ex players. They know as much as horsechoker. At this point the club is so random even Fergie himself wont be able to tell what's gonna happen in the next 5 years.
 
A club of Manchester United's stature could have a legit contender within two years, with the right moves they have the resources and the pull to do so still, but there hasn't been any indication the people in charge have a clue on how to go about doing that.
 
Forever rebuilding.

2yrs later we'll be saying we need another 2yrs as Bruno pogba ddg etc are now too old
 
So stupid. We’ve been witnessing the shit, rinse and repeat, since SAF retired some nine years ago. We witnessed City do the same shit before putting all their eggs in the Pep basket and do everything to set up the club for him to run. Liverpool did it with Klopp, buying into his ideology and demands.

Yet year after year we are witnessing all this bullshit because of the incompetency/foolishness of the board running this club.

We’ll have to wait and see come end of the season what moves the club makes, which manager we hire, before we give them 2 years or 4 or 20.
 
So much for Ole "rebuilding" the team huh. That notion can kiss my arse. Rio is right. Ole left us in a horrible state with a disjointed disgruntled squad. He's on par with Moyes as the worst manager post SAF
 
Jackal981 said:
So much for Ole "rebuilding" the team huh. That notion can kiss my arse. Rio is right. Ole left us in a horrible state with a disjointed disgruntled squad. He's on par with Moyes as the worst manager post SAF
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If that helps you sleep at night.
 
Is this a joke? How many years have we had to rebuild! We just need the right manager to get these players happy again and playing together. Our squad is definitely good enough to challenge for trophy’s. Yes we might need a couple of new signings which will complete us but in no way should we not be challenging for the league next year. Didn’t it take pep 2 years to win the league with city? Took klopp about 3 years to start winning things../ meanwhile it’s took us about 9 years to find the right manager! It’s getting Ridiculous now!
 
There isn’t a new manager that will come in and have us competing next season or even the season after. Ole’s rebuild was a disaster and it’s not just bringing in new players but massively improving the fitness, attitude and commitment of the players. Huge changes needed in how we play on and off the ball as well, two years is best case scenario, given incompetence of this club it will probably be a lot longer.
 
Aretak said:
The reality is that nobody knows. You could build a side to challenge for the title in one summer transfer window if you got everything right. It's equally possible that it could be decades before Manchester United win another Premier League or Champions League. Look at how fast the last nine years have gone by. Season after season of "writing off" and "rebuilding" that's all torn down when the manager leaves and another one comes in. I'm sick to death of hearing those phrases at this point.
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I agree. The top two are at a very high level within hstory of domestic sides so always be har dto challenge, it can take decades but look at some of the sides that have won and how cuikly the right manager and recruitment cn change things, it is possible for us to have a very good side next season gettig a good manager, the right coachign set up, the right recruitment and the right number of players out of the club as well. Of course trusting the cluib to do any of this based on recent history is another ting altogther
 
at least two years to challenge for the title - at least. Soon, at the end of the season, we will find ourselves as follows:

- in goal relatively OK, we'd probably need to sign a back up keeper in case Henderson leaves which is likely given De gea's comments about Manchester being is home now.
- in defense, it's clear we are shaky at full backs. The fact that none of the 4 full backs has cemented his position in the starting line up speaks volumes about the situation. I am hoping Shaw regains his form and AWB/Dalot improve their overall game - but as we stand now, the full back positions aren't solid. At CB, is Varane-Lindelof the long term partnership? For me it seems so, probably signing a DM (which is expected to happen) will help the CB partnership. Maguire is the captain ("until the end of the season" as per Ralf). Players like Jones, Tuanzebe, Williams, Bailly are all doubts to continue with the lack of game time they get. So as a conclusion, we need to rebuild at the back as well.
- in midfield, Paul will probably leave. VDB will return most probably but will he walk into the starting 11? I doubt that. Matic is almost 34. We need signings there. A DM signing seems eminent, so it might be Fred, McTominay, VDB and the new DM. Probably we'd also need someone to replace Pogba. So as a conclusion, in addition to a DM, we'd need to sign a creative CM.
- in attack, soon we'll find ourselves with an aging Ronaldo, underperforming Rashford and Sancho/Elanga. Cavani, Martial, Mata and Lingard will all be gone - add to that Greenwood. Amad will be back, but is he ready to be a full first team player? So as a conclusion, we are in terrible shape up there and we need reinforcements too.

With that said, it seems that after spending 9 years rebuilding, we need to rebuild more. We need reinforcements across the pitch and this will require lots of financial resources as well as some sort of stability in the team to attract players. The fact that we might miss out on CL football will also impact recruitment. One should not write off academy players, but Hannibal, Garner, Savage, Iqbal, Mengi, Laird and co all need time to be introduced to the first team (if they ever make it that is - and I hope they do). There is a lot of work to be done to win the league/CL but in the process we should always be looking for cups (Europa League, FA and Carabao). Writing this last sentence made me feel like a supporter of an average team, but sadly, we are an average team now.
 
It happens every time. Jose said he needed more time, Ole said itl be a couple seasons etc etc.

If I am being honest its a get out of jail free BS card. Ole probably the worst as he just damaged the living shit out of it here.

A manager can come in and start getting back to relevance within a year. Hargreaves is correct in saying recruitment is a huge factor. You get that right and it can be fast tracked.
 
VP89 said:
It happens every time. Jose said he needed more time, Ole said itl be a couple seasons etc etc.

If I am being honest its a get out of jail free BS card. Ole probably the worst as he just damaged the living shit out of it here.

A manager can come in and start getting back to relevance within a year. Hargreaves is correct in saying recruitment is a huge factor. You get that right and it can be fast tracked.
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The level of recruitment needed (as in the number of players) makes very difficult to see significant improvement by next season.
In every line we have issues (except keeper) and I don't see how it gets corrected fast
 
Until we have a manager who knows how he wants to play and buys players in to suit an actual system we’ll see the same thing over and over again, each manager that’s come in has been completely different to the one prior so we see a whole change player wise.

It pains me to say it but the only manager who actually had a system and was buying players in to suit it was LVG although his recruitment in terms of quality was piss poor, Jose and Ole was much more a scattergun approach leaving us unbalanced to the point we have the squad we currently do.

We need a whole structure brought in like other clubs, look at City and Liverpool do it here then clubs like Ajax or Bayern do abroad. I know Van Der Sar isn’t Director Of Football at Ajax but with Arnold just coming in that’s the best job Van Der Sar could get so bring him AND Ten Hag in with Rangnick as Senior Consultant then bring in a coaching team to implement the style and tactics they want.

Looking at City and Liverpool they aren’t squads packed with world class superstars outside of maybe 4 or 5 players each and much more of a balanced yet interchangeable squad with players set up to play a certain way and everyone fits, also they’re both coached properly from tactics to fitness whereas we hope for isolated individual brilliance to nick a result and hope for the best.
 
We need a winner as a manager and some smart buys. Look at Tuchels effect for Chelsea.
Our board is useless though.
 
There are many, many things that we've learnt over the past few years. It will take time, possibly more than 2 years, to become a juggernaut like Liverpool and City have become. And that comes with doing many small things rightly. At this point, we have to look at how each squad member was chosen to be signed/contract be extended and what role they fulfil. Not only have we created a squad which isn't balanced or good enough to win the league, to top it off, we've done that by spilling money all over the place. It is shambolic and needs a complete rebuild to clear out.

The reason we're always rebuilding is because our previous rebuild had a starting point of 130 million on Maguire and Wan Bissaka. While there are merits to both these players, but if we had a smart scouting system and decision makers, we can add players of similar quality for less than half of that. The problem that accompanies the big money moves is that when these players eventually start sucking, their price tag inflates their ego into thinking that the club needs them more than they need the club and its the manager who's unable to get the best out of them. A similar scenario is there with Rashford as well.

Under Ole, we had an illusion of a rebuild. Our tactic has always been to throw money and hope it sticks. Rather than identifying the player vis-a-vis a position, we also need to account for their suitability to the managers system, their mentality, the output we expect out of them and contingency if they don't work out. For example, we still don't know whether we want a destroyer as a CDM or a Carrick style temp-controller/interceptor nor do we have clarity for the striker position (#9 vs False 9). Does our new manager want to play 3 at the back which requires wing backs while we have none currently?

Under the right manager, we can easily become a club for which top 4 becomes obvious because barring the two at the top, every other club is on shaky grounds. And we can't go from where we are right now to Liverpool/City level within two years. The rebuild requires patience and throwing money at a big name is not going to be the solution. We've had almost 9 years worth of bad decisions to guide us. The next 6 months will tell us whether we have matured as a club or are we looking at another decade of pain.

Despite everything that we've faced over the past 3 months, I do believe that Ralf has been a step in the right direction and if he were given more control over future squad building decisions, we'll be in a much better place than we are now. Let's see how we actually use his consulting stint.
 
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Ole or not Ole after the manager gets sacked we will always need to rebuild. Which is why its stupid signing players in a hope that they will be succesful just because theyre still young/in mid 20s. Hiring manager that has one playstyle to the next contradicting one was not helping either. Move Ralf up, let him have a say on the direction of the club and we might see long term improvements, not forever stuck in false and dawns. It doesnt even have to be Ralf. But someone who knows how to run a football club needs to be at the club. And before anyone says we need to go for ex players, outside of Edwin they have done feck all in football management, including Rio. We have all the resources but lacking one or two very influential people at the club that make sure those resources will be used to move the club forward.
 
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What does writing off a season really means? It's nonsense really.

You play each season with the aim of doing the best you could possibly do, to win every game. If you recruit wisely, both on a manager and player level, there's no knowing what a team could achieve.
 
Some of the players that need replacing like De Gea, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, Mctominay, Rashford, the club will be too stubborn to admit that they need replacing and they'll be forced on future managers. This will further delay the completion of another rebuild.
 
How many years do we keep writing off? We've been in a coma for nearly 10 years.
 
So we have gone from 'ole has to win the league with this squad' to 'ridiculous to think new manager with two years and 400m could challenge, will need far longer'
 
A couple of class midfielders could push us a level up. I would be okay with us letting Pellestri, Amad, Elanga and Rashford fight it out of the rw and spend money to have a Manchester United level midfield. For st we might have to make do with Cristiano and Martial. A good midfield plays part in how we attack and defend. Average strikers and defenders look good when they have a class midfield playing inbetween them.
 
Back to back Top 4 finishes have been almost impossible since SAF retired. So any talk of when the next league title will be won is a bit silly.
 
fastwalker said:
In an article in the Daily Mail Rio Ferdinand suggests that it could be another two years before United can compete for the Premier League trophy and the Champions League.

Worryingly in his article Rio suggests that the new manager will need a minimum of two years (without offering an upper limit). In the article Rio: "urges his old club to 'humble themselves' and take a leaf out of Liverpool's book when they appoint a successor to Ralf Rangnick." However, if I am not mistaken Klopp's rebuild from appointment to first major trophy took four and a half years? Not only that but Liverpool's transformation under Klopp, is not just about Klopp. It is also about having owners who invest transfer money wisely, having an outstanding recruitment operation, using data analytics intelligently, keeping players wages competitive (but not exorbitant) and building a strong team ethic where players are hungry for success.

Whilst I hate to sound pessimistic, is Rio being too optimistic at the lower end of his expectations?
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The term "to write off" is just fundamentally wrong and misleading in this context, I think. It's a strange mix of defeatism and accounting terminology. And why would a team of the quality and resources of Man United say, 'oh the next two years we won't win anything'? It's an unnecessary thing to proclaim. Of course you don't write off a season or its competitions as a football team. You compete in them, even if you don't set winning the trophies as to be expected or probable. It's a fecking sport. Every game can be won.
 
It really depends. The funny thing about our squad at the moment is that I still maintain there is plenty of quality. We just lack a couple of world-class players in key areas.

I say it regularly, but if you look at a team like Liverpool, whilst they have been incredible for 5/6 years now, you would say most of their side is 'functional' rather than 'world-class'.

Robertson, Matip, Henderson (very good, but not a match-winner necessarily), Wijnaldum, Keita, Fabinho and Firminho are all definitely good players. However, they are the type of 'good players' which are readily available to a club like United i.e. they are plenty of them and they wouldn't cost the Earth.

What makes the difference for Liverpool is that they have van Dijk, Allisson, Salah and (maybe) Mane & TAA. You throw 'good/functional' players in around those players and you get amazing results.

I'm probably in a minority but I think our defence is largely fine. Our GK desperately needs to be replaced, our CM desperately needs an overhaul and we need a world-class 'central' forward. That's 3/4 players. With smart signings, we could address 2/3 of those positions in one window. I honestly think two really, really top players would have this same side 12-15pts better off now.
 
I do find it funny that we seem to be one of the only top clubs that feel the need to "write off" seasons every year. Just like Liverpool used to say "next year is our year" - pre klopp. I look at Chelsea, City, Real etc and they don't feel the need to write off season after season, after season.
 
DJ_21 said:
Is this a joke? How many years have we had to rebuild! We just need the right manager to get these players happy again and playing together. Our squad is definitely good enough to challenge for trophy’s. Yes we might need a couple of new signings which will complete us but in no way should we not be challenging for the league next year. Didn’t it take pep 2 years to win the league with city? Took klopp about 3 years to start winning things../ meanwhile it’s took us about 9 years to find the right manager! It’s getting Ridiculous now!
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Our squad is barely good enough to get 4th.
 
He's right in a way we need to take mid-to-long term actions rather than look for immediate success. Buying Ronaldo, giving Pogba fat paycheck to make him stay - those are examples of going for short term actions which will hurt is in the long run.
 
United don't have the talent in their playing personal to be a successful side at present (which is alot different to the foundation Tuchel had at Chelsea when he walked in last year) and, going by one of the threads below : How many positions in the first XI are actually settled ?, the fans don't seem to think that either, with the majority thinking we need atleast 6/7 first team players brought in.

Sure we could fast track it but that's not going to happen under the current management. The Glazers won't sanction moves for 5/6 first team players.
Anyone thinking they will are deluded.

So, yeah, it probably might take a while before we're challenging again.
 
Yeah best case scenario is a 2 season rebuild until a 24/25 true title challenge IMO. That's if the new manager gets things right with signings and play style.
 
Backroom staff is critical.

Too many focusing on getting in the right players. No such thing if your foundation is non existant.
It's in the backroom staff that gets the building blocks into place for the right players.

Recruit the best in class football experts for key positions and let this be done by someone who has a clue for what a future Man United team should look and play like and the rest will fall into place.

Without that incredible support structure Liverpool and City have right now, they wouldn't be anywhere near consistent as they are now.

Remember City brought in Begiristain years before Guardiola. So they got their house in order first and it's what our club needs to focus on. I'll take that over Messi, Halland or any other world class player at the moment.
 
fastwalker said:
In an article in the Daily Mail Rio Ferdinand suggests that it could be another two years before United can compete for the Premier League trophy and the Champions League.

Worryingly in his article Rio suggests that the new manager will need a minimum of two years (without offering an upper limit). In the article Rio: "urges his old club to 'humble themselves' and take a leaf out of Liverpool's book when they appoint a successor to Ralf Rangnick." However, if I am not mistaken Klopp's rebuild from appointment to first major trophy took four and a half years? Not only that but Liverpool's transformation under Klopp, is not just about Klopp. It is also about having owners who invest transfer money wisely, having an outstanding recruitment operation, using data analytics intelligently, keeping players wages competitive (but not exorbitant) and building a strong team ethic where players are hungry for success.

Whilst I hate to sound pessimistic, is Rio being too optimistic at the lower end of his expectations?
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I don't think he is being too optimistic, we made the Europa Final last season and finished in the top three for two consecutive years and you have to be a bit good to reach those heights imo. We have imbalance issues that make it difficult for our defense to compensate for but take the team we had last season and add Sancho, Varane and a DM we would be safely top four even with Ole.

The next challenge was always going to be where to find a consistent 30 goal striker and we thought we had hit the jackpot with that scumbag but it wasn't to be.

Obviously right now we need at least four new players to replace the old guard in Matic, Ronaldo and Cavani and to rectify Ole's mistake in spending a king's ransom on AWB. We aren't far off from being competitive and that's why we are fourth right now.
 
jesperjaap said:
This is something that pisses me off. Not saing signing players doesnt mean it doesnt take time to turn a side into trophy winners, nor are we a bottomless pit...but why should signing seven players take several windows exactly?

I know we aret bankrolled like City or Chelsea, but Ole fro ecample talked about a "process" and "stages" bringing players in to build a team, was utter rubbish.

The year Klopp signed, the club bought in nine players, his first full season he bought in six.

The year Mourinho took over it was about fifteen okayers, his first full season he bought in eleven

Guardiola in his firts year bought in eleven

Two of those managers were successful straight away, all this beddign in seeral new players in nonsense. If your current players arent gelling or performing, why shouldnt a new replacement do better?

I think this squad is actually seven players top heavu in size, it is also is probably double that number with players competing for the frist eleven, of which many are actually just squad players in performance/attitude/ability.

We should seriously be moving on 10-15 players this summer and buying in 6/7, doing things over several windows is something we have alreayd been doing and it leaves us in te predicament we are in now.

We have several players out of contract who will leave, a few that want to leave and we also have a coupel of good young prospects and there are several good free transfer options to bring in this summer as well as young talented players that wont cost more than £40m. We should be able to do loads in the transfer market this summer....of course, we wont though, we will make 2/3 signings and 4/5 will leave, and people will say we can challenge for the title when we are still seriously short onn a couple of positions to the degree we cant challenge
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Liverpool brought in Mane and Salah for a combined fee of under £70m, until we are able to pull off deals like that and lose our obsession with fading stars who gave their best years elsewhere we can forget about being competitive. We are like Microsoft trying to take on Apple with their pitiful Windows Phone.

Like Neville said a few years back, we needed to bring in the best in class DOF to direct our then rebuild. What did Woodward do, he hid behind a club legend and £400m later we are still talking of the same shite - lazy, overpaid and overrated players. Imagine where we would be if a top DOF like Campo or Rangnick had overseen the last four or five windows?

The sad thing is that the Glazers are so scared of taking financial hits that they would protect underperformers. Instead of backing a much needed clear out that sends a message to the dressing room we will go for a diplomat that won't confront the deep-seated rot in the dressing and start off by pandering to the same snakes sinking us.
 
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