Rio Ferdinand says Manchester United must write off the next two years in their latest rebuild. But is he being too optimistic?

Tuchel has shown that this whole notion is utter nonsense. You don't need to have individually great players in every position to win trophies. Ole was in first more than a year ago, reached the EL final and came second, despite the fact that he wasn't cut out for the job and our squad not exactly being without issues.
 
There is no such thing as a rebuild. We never built anything to begin with so what are we rebuilding. We need to buy better betters and bring in a world class manager, there’s no secret to success.
 
shamans said:
No season should be a write off. That's ridiculous. Also, it doesn't take that long to see if a team is building something or just buying time/excuses like LVG/Ole
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If you look at it that way then I guess all our managers after SAF fits the criteria of being sacked as quickly as Moyes, as none can live up to what he did, much less in under a year. Managers can come and go but I don't think our policy on that is the main contribution to our lack of success. Blame all these individual men for not being up to the task but the owners and Ed Woodward is the one consistent that has followed us these years, and they have not only been in charge of hiring these guys but also made the conditions for them to thrive. Either way you look at it, it's their lack of knowhow that has led to our managers failing spectacularly rather than being phased out naturally like some managers.

They have appointed managers, thrown money at problems, learnt lessons in one situation then turned around and inflicted those lessons as solutions where problems didn't exist, thus creating more problems. We should have invested better under Ole and really used all those windows to create a fresher environment. They are playing catchup and by the time they get to one problem, another one needs sorting, and before they get to that the manager gets fired, while some of these players live on. For me it's not about putting blame on the players either, it's just that the lack of assertiveness and staleness from upper management is trickling down and bleeds into both the manager and the players. It's like everything isn't being worked on enough. They all have that last minute desperate reminder of our past that sneaks in and sometimes scores an important goal or buys a good player. Generally though, our board and upper management is not of a top level, so how can we expect our team to be? Sport fanatics, owners with less money can get more out of their team by tracking down the right profile of manager and players.
 
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Progressive improvement or change. Lets stop with these grand "rebuilds"
 
I said this in another thread.

We are writing this season off.
We will write off next season.
And we will find reasons to write off the following season (the reason for the write off will be found closer to the time).
Unfortunately, we are never a team who have to succeed now - always a team who will, in future, win something. Most fans are quite content with this loser's strategy.

And this is an example of what I'm talking about.

UnofficialDevil said:
I think that if we get a proper manager for the first time since SAF retired in May, and he chooses and gets three players he wants this summer, we can challenge.
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We can buy 11 new players, all from the ball on dor shortlist and we would still need to write off next season and the next.

We brought in a serial winner and our last 2 trophies came in his first season. Now there's an idea. Hire a serial winner and he wins you trophies.
I think we need to follow CFC's strategy of hiring proven winners, keeping them for 2-3 years and winning trophies that way.
 
We need to change manager to head coach title. Get RR And Murtough to build the squad and decide what brand of football we want. Hire a head coach to train the players. RR and Murtough bring in coaches under him that's the only way forward.
Each manager we have hired has bought in different players that don't work with the next manager. This way if one head coach doesn't work playing the utd new way get another coach in that matches that style.
 
Pep and Klopp will be gone in a couple of years IMO.
Potentially too Salah, VVD and many of the non English contingent at City will look elsewhere.

The Teams will replace, but there is a good chance that their dominance will be there for the taking.

Sow the seeds the next couple of seasons, and with the right appointments, backing and signings, we have as good a chance as anyone.

The important thing is to manage expectations during the transition. Continuous improvements in all areas.
Harmonious Squad, Quality Players and Tactics, Fan Support and a bit of luck.
 
The same fans who are critical of a potential new rebuild, that could arguably take longer than 2 yrs, are likely the same who're desperate for us to bring in Ten Hag...for a new rebuild.
 
FrankDrebin said:
The same fans who are critical of a potential new rebuild, that could arguably take longer than 2 yrs, are likely the same who're desperate for us to bring in Ten Hag...for a new rebuild.
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If there are no measurable improvements after a season he should be shown the door like anyone else.
 
FrankDrebin said:
The same fans who are critical of a potential new rebuild, that could arguably take longer than 2 yrs, are likely the same who're desperate for us to bring in Ten Hag...for a new rebuild.
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The idea behind wanting Ten Hag isn't to wanting the next Bob the rebuilder. It's just to hire the most competent coach on the market.
 
I think it's quite realistic given how we usually go about rebuilding

but if any other big club had our squad weaknesses they'd go out and sort it a lot quicker, say Chelsea or Real for example

we like to take 4 or 5 windows and by the time we're done a bunch of other positions need sorting
 
In two years, he'd be saying we need to write off the stadium and he'd more correct on that than the idiocy he's spewing here.
 
fastwalker said:
In an article in the Daily Mail Rio Ferdinand suggests that it could be another two years before United can compete for the Premier League trophy and the Champions League.

Worryingly in his article Rio suggests that the new manager will need a minimum of two years (without offering an upper limit). In the article Rio: "urges his old club to 'humble themselves' and take a leaf out of Liverpool's book when they appoint a successor to Ralf Rangnick." However, if I am not mistaken Klopp's rebuild from appointment to first major trophy took four and a half years? Not only that but Liverpool's transformation under Klopp, is not just about Klopp. It is also about having owners who invest transfer money wisely, having an outstanding recruitment operation, using data analytics intelligently, keeping players wages competitive (but not exorbitant) and building a strong team ethic where players are hungry for success.

Whilst I hate to sound pessimistic, is Rio being too optimistic at the lower end of his expectations?
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He stole my fecking post!
 
We can call it a rebuild, or call it putting together a squad capable of challenging at the highest level.

Our current players that have shown that they can do this is DDG, Varane, Shaw, Pogba, Bruno and Sancho. For Pogba and Shaw there is the question of consistency and if Pogba will stay.

With the right manager we might get more out of players like Dalot, Rashford and some youth players (Mejbri, Elanga, Diallo, Garner, Laird etc.)

Lindelöf, Maguire, Fred, McT, Telles, AWB I don't think will ever be good enough, other than maybe squad depth. Others are or will soon be to old, such as Mata, Matic, Cavani, Ronaldo.

If the new manager can utilise our squad to the maximum, and we get three or four signings correct before our best players starts declining, then I think we can get to where we want to be.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Someone else said it but this is the most important decision the club will take that will have repercussions for the next ten years.

If you we look at it that we can compete inside the next 12-18 months, we will be finished as a club.

To compete inside of 12-18 months would need Luis Enrique/Antonio Conte/Jupp Heynkes level manager and £300m net spend.

This isn't going to happen. So to think like this is folly and will lead us further astray because we will hire Poch or Keep Ralf and will spent £100m and we get nowhere. Another year of struggling for top four and set our course back again, delaying progress.

The club need to start thinking 24-36month timescales for competing. So not next season or the season after but the next season.

Pick a manager that is going to create a tactic, playing style and ethos (almost doesn't quite matter who really). Realise that this manager needs two years with their players, players they have chosen, four windows worth of recruitment, in and out.

Focus on the youth players to embolden the squad and add players under 25 who match attributes the playing style needs

High press? Stamina and pace. Dominate possession? Technical players from possession dominant clubs. Counter attacking? Vertical and direct passers and pace etc.

Don't be afraid to buy the best players from relegation zone teams. Make sure you triple the scouting teams or steal them from clubs like Leicester, Leipzig, Lille and Dortmund.

Whoever you get in to manage, it has to be a three year timescale project. If you get on Poch and give him £50m he will be finished inside of 18months.
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Bloody Rio, stealing my ideas
 
Rio knows a winning team and anyone defending this team is ridiculous. Just my opinion I'm happy to take questions.
 
I think most United fans are writing off every year the Glazers are still owners, so 2 years is very, very optimistic.
 
There's no rebuild in progress, we're just flailing around aimlessly trying to stay afloat year on year (ie, top 4).

If we (i.e the board) had genuine title challenging aspirations, the rebuild would need to be dramatic. Realistically, top sides need to add on average 2-3 players a season to keep on top, to replace ageing players or upgrades those not quite cutting it. As in, if we were in City's position, we would need to add 2-3 players each season to stay there. For us to get from where we are to where City are, it'd probably require 8-10 changes of personnel. Which I just can't see us doing. Nor could I see us managing to make signings that actually work logically towards building a balanced and functional squad. We will instead continue adding 3 or 4 players a season, probably overpriced players who don't fulfill the immediate pressing need, with no direction or oversight in terms of playing style or squad balance, and scratch our heads why it's not working.

I'm always willing to be proven wrong, cos the club have obviously tried to do something with the introduce of a footballing director, and Rangnick moving into some kind of consulting role, but I will believe we're on the right track when I see it.
 
After two years, we will be here again saying that we need to write of another two years. We just need a proper manager, preferably Pochettino and give him unlimited funds. Most top clubs don't need that long of a rebuild. One year is all they need, some manager can make an instant impact though
 
There is an implicit presumption that the Glazers will back the rebuild and not put commercial objectives ahead of footballing ones as they have consistently done since they arrived.

That is the fear over Poch. He has shown at PSG that he will accommodate that kind of thing.
 
Depends entirely on how quickly we react in the Summer with the transfer market, if we keep to the same recruitment strategy of buying in 3/4 players then 2 years minimum.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah this squad is at least 7 players short, therefore will take another few windows to sort out those issues
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This is something that pisses me off. Not saing signing players doesnt mean it doesnt take time to turn a side into trophy winners, nor are we a bottomless pit...but why should signing seven players take several windows exactly?

I know we aret bankrolled like City or Chelsea, but Ole fro ecample talked about a "process" and "stages" bringing players in to build a team, was utter rubbish.

The year Klopp signed, the club bought in nine players, his first full season he bought in six.

The year Mourinho took over it was about fifteen okayers, his first full season he bought in eleven

Guardiola in his firts year bought in eleven

Two of those managers were successful straight away, all this beddign in seeral new players in nonsense. If your current players arent gelling or performing, why shouldnt a new replacement do better?

I think this squad is actually seven players top heavu in size, it is also is probably double that number with players competing for the frist eleven, of which many are actually just squad players in performance/attitude/ability.

We should seriously be moving on 10-15 players this summer and buying in 6/7, doing things over several windows is something we have alreayd been doing and it leaves us in te predicament we are in now.

We have several players out of contract who will leave, a few that want to leave and we also have a coupel of good young prospects and there are several good free transfer options to bring in this summer as well as young talented players that wont cost more than £40m. We should be able to do loads in the transfer market this summer....of course, we wont though, we will make 2/3 signings and 4/5 will leave, and people will say we can challenge for the title when we are still seriously short onn a couple of positions to the degree we cant challenge
 
sullydnl said:
Because we keep fecking up the rebuild time after time with poor recruitment and poor manager choices. If you do that then you will of course still need to rebuild, no matter how many cycles you go through.
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The problem is because we don't address all of our main issues, therefore by the following summer other issues have cropped up as it's a never ending cycle
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
I think he’s right to some degree. I’d rather we ‘streamline’ a little, like LVG did a few years back. We don’t need loads of expensive squad players on huge wages like Mata, Lingard, Jones, Matic (although he’s still absolutely class on occasion and unique in his role) and so on. There should be more youngsters filling out the squad.

Also, we should try to sign more cheap but promising players than go crazy on one or two expensive signings like Rice. They might not be total class next season but both City and Liverpool signed players who didn’t really come good in the first year but ended up being tremendous.

As for 2 years… I don’t think that’s overly optimistic. Football can change very quickly. We need major squad surgery and more agile transfer strategy/negotiations but hopefully the new regime (if indeed it is truly new with Arnold in situ, Murtough given more autonomy and Rangnick’s influence) will succeed.

Also, the lack of CL football as I suspect might actually force us to consider more under the radar targets for cheaper so we can, counterintuitively, implement more squad changes than expected.
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Your second paragraph sums up perfectly what needs to happen in order for us to succeed again eventually
 
The sheer delusion from some in here who are stubbornly blind to the realities of where this club is at scares me. City and Liverpool are two world class squads that have won major trophies for years under the leadership of two world class managers. Even if we bring in ETH and let him spend 300M this summer, we’re still biting at the heels of two absolute juggernauts.

I get it if some have issue with the idea of writing seasons off, but I think it’s more about prioritizing building for a successful decade plus ahead of us, and less about doing whatever we can to squeak out a trophy the next couple of years. Not that thinks can’t go perfectly from the jump and lead to a league title next year, but that should only come about if it’s on top of a solid foundation that will serve us well moving forward.
 
We’re absolutely miles off, the recruitment team scouts etc should hang their heads in shame. We’re too busy saying we’re the most popular on social media rather than dealing with the massive issues in the squad.

issues all over the pitch goalkeepers enough said. Full backs disastrous, centre half we have the worst 80 million player in the history of time.
Centre midfield have nobody who can dominate the possession other than matic who is 4 years past his best.

wingers is honestly the only place there isn’t a real outstanding need rashford needs to sort his sh1t out though that’s for sure.

upfront 35 year old Cavani who elusive as the scarlet pimpernel. Ronaldo who has moments of brilliance and is the best of all time but sorry he hasn’t got it in the premier league. There is always greenwood….. oh hang on.

the subs bench is full of rot also mata Phil Jones, Fred and no youth actually coming through given a chance. There is no way this gets better in 5 years. If we started tomorrow and did everything right we are 4 or 5 seasons away. The issue is these owners aren’t going anywhere. They’ll squeeze every penny they can out of this club, just pray there is a billionaire owner who cares as much as we did.
 
IWat said:
Progressive improvement or change. Lets stop with these grand "rebuilds"
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It's semantics. The slow progress is whats hampering us. We're still currently in our previous rebuild, which was needed. We replaced Carrick with Matic. Fellaini with Fred. Welbeck with Depay. Depay with Rashford. Rashford with Sancho. Di Maria with Martial. Rooney with Lukaku. Lukaku with Cavani. Cavani for Ronaldo. It just goes on. Now we need a new main striker, possibly a right winger because we used two full windows to acquire 3 RW where one has to replace our stagnated academy hero and the others were expensive kids not ready. Even if we replace Ronaldo with a new striker, and sell Cavani I assume we bring Martial back again to become backup striker? It's honestly a mess and it all comes from several bad decisions way up top. They have also been using the academy as a crutch in at least a couple of ways. Lingard, Rashford, McTominay, Pereira, Williams and more have been relied on as vital parts of our seasons under Ole. On the other end players like Mata, Jones, Matic, Valencia, Young continued to play a big part before that and took forever to replace. The trio is even still around.

Shaw only had Young as a mentor before Telles, who quite frankly was a weird signing along with Cavani, VDB and Pellestri. It's quite clear we needed genuin quality in all these positions, coming in to replace Shaw, Pogba, Lukaku and... Obertan? yet these signings all reaks of way down the list - put together in a hurry, covering all bases type of action from the board. Hardly progressive at all as we can't shift players on with a good value if they get displaced because the likeliness it happens is low and we have no backup for when Cavani isn't fit or gets too old. So we just end up with buying new squad players without a purpose, and we don't even manage to replace our previous squad players with them because we're trying to negotiate and maximise profits for these players, but with the huge contracts we have no bargaining power. So we just sort of, ignore it. Let them play out their contracts carrying bad morale through the team for years and have them go for free, that'll show everybody in the industry we means business.

- Jones Matic Mata has to leave, surely.
- Ronaldo, Cavani.
- Bailly, Martial, DVB, Pereira.
- Lingard, Pogba. Obviously now with the contract situation being what it is.

So that is 11 players either likely expecting to leave or play no major part in the team. This is outrageous. The fact we've let it come to the point 11 players going out in a single window is not only expected, but also realistic is bananas.But honestly, I think we might move on 3. We're playing catch-up so far behind we haven't got time to plan for the future. We will continue to do so under Ralph as well or whoever is in charge, until we can do a mass clear out like this to get us started.

Then you have other recent first team players different people have grown tired of and want to sell for value.
Dalot, Maguire, Rashford, AWB, Shaw, Fred, McTominay, Telles, Lindelof. Basically the whole team which is getting a bit ridiculous and I've even seen "Bruno needs to if we want to win major trophies" I think all these players will stay for now, but we could easily replace one or two but to get the quality we need we have to sell to buy, which is just not something I think I've seen us do.

In short, depending on our ruthlessness and strategy moving forward, yeah it might take a lot of time. It also can turn around pretty quickly if we have some luck in making a couple of right signings. If we don't it can get worse. We have a decent top 10 type of foundation right now, with some ageing stars and weird squad issues that might get resolved with a clear out. Wait another season, doing nothing in the summer window and we run the risk of weakening the foundation in place even further.
 
jesperjaap said:
This is something that pisses me off. Not saing signing players doesnt mean it doesnt take time to turn a side into trophy winners, nor are we a bottomless pit...but why should signing seven players take several windows exactly?

I know we aret bankrolled like City or Chelsea, but Ole fro ecample talked about a "process" and "stages" bringing players in to build a team, was utter rubbish.

The year Klopp signed, the club bought in nine players, his first full season he bought in six.

The year Mourinho took over it was about fifteen okayers, his first full season he bought in eleven

Guardiola in his firts year bought in eleven

Two of those managers were successful straight away, all this beddign in seeral new players in nonsense. If your current players arent gelling or performing, why shouldnt a new replacement do better?

I think this squad is actually seven players top heavu in size, it is also is probably double that number with players competing for the frist eleven, of which many are actually just squad players in performance/attitude/ability.

We should seriously be moving on 10-15 players this summer and buying in 6/7, doing things over several windows is something we have alreayd been doing and it leaves us in te predicament we are in now.

We have several players out of contract who will leave, a few that want to leave and we also have a coupel of good young prospects and there are several good free transfer options to bring in this summer as well as young talented players that wont cost more than £40m. We should be able to do loads in the transfer market this summer....of course, we wont though, we will make 2/3 signings and 4/5 will leave, and people will say we can challenge for the title when we are still seriously short onn a couple of positions to the degree we cant challenge
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I completely agree it shouldn't take several windows but have seen how these leeches operate for the last 15 years so hard to have any confidence in a huge sea change
 
Of course we need 2 years minimum. I don't think even the most optimistic reading can come to the conclusion we can address all of our problems in a summer. I understand the frustration about rebuilds and writing seasons off but that is the reality facing us, because if you keep cocking things up then the squad is inept. You can dream up a title challenge and say that should be the target but wishing doesn't make it so.

We have to appoint a new manager. He has to have a take on the squad. That may slow things down. Then we have to look at our forward options that are misfiring or leaving. We have the age old midfield issue. RB is unconvincing.

We have only just started to hint at a style of play and cohesiveness. It really is just a hint as well, it may even just be sheer optimism at this stage pending further evidence and the run out to this season. The new manager will have his own ideas.

You cannot expect the club to solve all of this with immediacy, and even if we did the league contains a couple of teams at an incredible level that challenging means being one of the top 4 or 5 teams in Europe. You could solve all that and still be coming up short.

We are a puzzle with the pieces all over the place. The only thing a manager has in his favour is finance. Which is absolutely fundamental to challenging, of course. But it's still a proper task to rearrange it all.
 
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AshRK said:
Exactly. Every 3 years we have the same conversation of how next year will be a rebuild.
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Because we have stupid owners, a stupid board and a lot of stupid fans, all of whom continue to ignore past mistakes and repeat the same errors which have led to our downfall.

See Ronaldo for the very latest example of this point.
 
We'd need to take a significant leap forward in both coaching and player recruitment to stand a chance of challenging for any titles.

That could happen in less than two years. It might also not happen at any point in the next 10 years. Both scenarios (and everything in between) are quite possible for a club with the resources and operational ineptitude of United.
 
Two years is massively optimistic. I don't think many appreciate how far this squad is away from challenging.
 
When we spent £60m+ on van de Beek, Amad and Pellistri as part of this 'rebuild', then the 'rebuilds' will continue to happen until those making the transfer decisions is replaced by someone who is competent.
 
Rebuild is a bit of a silly term anyway. Every club rebuilds every summer as we all make a number of signings that tends to be a sensible number. So what's the difference between what we'll do and what City or Liverpool will do except to say that we are shit and they are not?

Nobody except Newcastle will be making 10 signings. That's why it's a spoken of as a rebuild I guess, there is acknowledgment within that which says that financing and practicalities dictate that it takes a period of time to address a squad - so it's called a rebuild rather than a Football Manager type summer.

The bottom line is we need better players and a top manager and then he needs to transition us away from crap performances and results towards good performances and results.
 
The reality is that nobody knows. You could build a side to challenge for the title in one summer transfer window if you got everything right. It's equally possible that it could be decades before Manchester United win another Premier League or Champions League. Look at how fast the last nine years have gone by. Season after season of "writing off" and "rebuilding" that's all torn down when the manager leaves and another one comes in. I'm sick to death of hearing those phrases at this point.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
I don't think anybody is expecting our new manager to win the title in the next two seasons. If we see some progress, identity then that will mean a lot more.
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I disagree, as we can se with Ralf.
Progress is obvious, we play much better and organized football with each game, we finally have some identity on the pitch, and you still have a good chunk of our fan base being overly negative and calling RR a fraud after only three months.
Whoever we appoint next, he will need to deliver results instantly, else he will be under a huge pressure mid-season.
 
Rebuild what exactly? Another group of players incapable of challenging for the title, so that we can then say we need to rebuild it 2 years time? We will never compete until the structure of the club off the field is fixed. Rebuild that properly and then let's see what needs to be done.
 
I can only say as a united fan since 06 I see a lot of insecure people not understanding we need an academy ... Its not academic.
 
Jericho said:
Chelsea won it, came 10th the following year, and won it again the year after. I think things can turn around quick if we get right personnel in charge.
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Exactly. Things can change rapidly depending on the state of your squad, the supplementary signings and the managerial choice.
 
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