Rebuild job needed…again

markhughes said:
I know we have to do better with the players we have and a new coaching team is obviously required however I actually think we need a HUGE rebuild.

Coaching team - needs replacing, including the manager.

Stadium - Old and knackered, needs serious investment.

Training facilities - Dated in comparison to our rivals.

US owners - Genuinely don’t care about the club, the bottom line is all that matters.
And now the team…

AWB - Not good enough for a top team.
Maguire - Just not good enough and is a liability at times.
Victor - Has never been good enough, decent squad option.
Shaw - Lacks consistency.
Fred - No need to explain
McTom - Not good enough, squad player at best.
Pogba - Needs to move on.
Cavani - It’s clear he won’t be here for too long
Ronaldo - Obviously will only be here for a year or two.
Martial - Enough is enough
Eric - How is he still here?
Jones - No need for an explanation.
Jesse - Squad player at best
Telles - Is not good enough

That is 13 players who are just not good enough or who will be gone in the next couple of years. Obviously we are not going to get rid of all of them and so we are stuck with our investments for a number of years.

That is a bigger job than most people realise I think, our first 11 seemed decent this year on paper but the midfield and defence need rebuilding and some of the big names will be gone within a couple of years.

No quick fix here I am afraid, I don’t see a manager being able to be successful with this group and in this environment.
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AWB - could be a very useful player if we accept his limitations on the ball and utilise his excellent one-vs-one defensive skills
Maguire - one of the first names on the team-sheet for one of the best national football teams in the world. Has mostly been very good for us, looks poor when we try and play progressive football...but then who doesn't? I believe it's down to coaching, leaving individuals massively exposed.
Victor - Captains the Swedish national side, clearly a very good '3rd-choice'
Shaw - Hailed as the second-coming of Roberto Carlos in the Summer, excellent last season, again, suffering from the defensive chaos and lack of organisation
Fred - Not great but starts for Brazil and is a useful tool if used effectively
McTom - Should be a squad player but we know we need two CMs...that doesn't really qualify as a 'rebuild'
Pogba - Wouldn't disagree here, been more bad than good for the most part. Not a PL CM and we can't afford 2/3 luxury players in the side.
Cavani - Will do for now. Need a long-term CF
Ronaldo - Will do for now. Need a long-term CF
Martial - Sell
Eric - Sell
Jones - Release
Jesse - Good squad player. Should probably be used more
Telles - Absolutely fine as a backup

I think what you are seeing currently is the result of total lack of confidence, inspired by poor coaching, individuals being exposed during games and lack of belief in the plan. I am not having that these players are poor players. In the past, I highlighted the fact that hardly any of our regulars where starts for their national teams, well, that isn't the case now.

We look at teams like Liverpool and Chelsea...are their players a million miles better than ours? I'd say no. What they have is a clear plan, that every single player buys into and understands. Our lads are just thrown onto the pitch and asked to work it out for themselves, which is always going to end in disaster at the top level.
 
Lentwood said:
AWB - could be a very useful player if we accept his limitations on the ball and utilise his excellent one-vs-one defensive skills
Maguire - one of the first names on the team-sheet for one of the best national football teams in the world. Has mostly been very good for us, looks poor when we try and play progressive football...but then who doesn't? I believe it's down to coaching, leaving individuals massively exposed.
Victor - Captains the Swedish national side, clearly a very good '3rd-choice'
Shaw - Hailed as the second-coming of Roberto Carlos in the Summer, excellent last season, again, suffering from the defensive chaos and lack of organisation
Fred - Not great but starts for Brazil and is a useful tool if used effectively
McTom - Should be a squad player but we know we need two CMs...that doesn't really qualify as a 'rebuild'
Pogba - Wouldn't disagree here, been more bad than good for the most part. Not a PL CM and we can't afford 2/3 luxury players in the side.
Cavani - Will do for now. Need a long-term CF
Ronaldo - Will do for now. Need a long-term CF
Martial - Sell
Eric - Sell
Jones - Release
Jesse - Good squad player. Should probably be used more
Telles - Absolutely fine as a backup

I think what you are seeing currently is the result of total lack of confidence, inspired by poor coaching, individuals being exposed during games and lack of belief in the plan. I am not having that these players are poor players. In the past, I highlighted the fact that hardly any of our regulars where starts for their national teams, well, that isn't the case now.

We look at teams like Liverpool and Chelsea...are their players a million miles better than ours? I'd say no. What they have is a clear plan, that every single player buys into and understands. Our lads are just thrown onto the pitch and asked to work it out for themselves, which is always going to end in disaster at the top level.
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Very good summing up of the squad.
I would also like to add that we should also have moved Mata and Matic on last season, along with Pogba and Lingard, assuming other clubs wanted them, that would have left space in the team for the likes of Hannibal, Amad and Elanga to get valuable match day experience, and we could have brought in a good solid midfielder, or two (Bissouma).
My other gripes were the purchases of VDB and Sancho. Donny just doesn't seem the right fit for the team, and Sancho may well become a top player in time, but realistically we needed someone who could hit the ground running, otherwise in 12 months time Amad or Pellestri could be the solution to the right wing question.
 
Nah the squad lacks depth and quality in CM but is more than capable of competing. The issue firmly lies at the feet of the coaches/management. They're not getting even 25% out of this squad.

This is easily the best squad we've had since Fergie and it's shining a light on the ineptitude of our management.

But we've known this from day 1. Ole was brought in to steady the ship, rekindle the ethos and move along the dross/make sound replacements. He has achieved all of that, and we are now in a position where a top manager can come in and work with a very enviable squad. The problem is, there aren't any managers available/willing to come!
 
markhughes said:
I know we have to do better with the players we have and a new coaching team is obviously required however I actually think we need a HUGE rebuild.

Coaching team - needs replacing, including the manager.

Stadium - Old and knackered, needs serious investment.

Training facilities - Dated in comparison to our rivals.

US owners - Genuinely don’t care about the club, the bottom line is all that matters.
And now the team…

AWB - Not good enough for a top team.
Maguire - Just not good enough and is a liability at times.
Victor - Has never been good enough, decent squad option.
Shaw - Lacks consistency.
Fred - No need to explain
McTom - Not good enough, squad player at best.
Pogba - Needs to move on.
Cavani - It’s clear he won’t be here for too long
Ronaldo - Obviously will only be here for a year or two.
Martial - Enough is enough
Eric - How is he still here?
Jones - No need for an explanation.
Jesse - Squad player at best
Telles - Is not good enough

That is 13 players who are just not good enough or who will be gone in the next couple of years. Obviously we are not going to get rid of all of them and so we are stuck with our investments for a number of years.

That is a bigger job than most people realise I think, our first 11 seemed decent this year on paper but the midfield and defence need rebuilding and some of the big names will be gone within a couple of years.

No quick fix here I am afraid, I don’t see a manager being able to be successful with this group and in this environment.
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You can add Mata, Matic and Dalot to that list. Thats £300k a week right there. Then we have a sub keeper in Dean Henderson on £100k a week.
What we doing? We are pissing money up the wall on players that aint got it or are way past their best.
Mata is good example. Plays 9 league games last year and is given a two year contract. Why?
 
This is not a bad squad. Room for improvements, but no team has world class players in every position. Most of these players have showed in the past that they're good enough, at least as squad players, but they're currently subjected to mismanagement and a dysfunctional club culture. In the last eight years, how many times have we signed a player who did well at his last club, watched him disappoint here, sold him after a few years, and then watched him do just fine at his next club?

We certainly do have some that aren't good enough, but we're not talking about half the fecking squad here. With proper coaching and management, and a better overall club structure, this squad would absolutely be challenging for trophies every season. Unfortunately, I suspect all that'll change is the manager while everything else stays the same.
 
I defended ole when he didn’t make subs last season because I said, well who of quality can he bring on? This season he gets no defence. The squad is fine, one or two changes (RB, CDM) and that’s good enough to challenge for the league.

Sancho, Ronaldo should ideally improve the attack. A better manager would have been able to get something cohesive out of Fred, Bruno, Pogba, VDB, McTominay, Matic. Defence and goalkeeper needs organisation. Something that capable coaching could fix
 
Its quite clear that we need a rebuild again. How do we end up making the same mistake every fecking time? Tear everything the previous manager has built and start again.

Pogba, Lingard, Donny, Martial, Hendo , AWB ,Mata will leave.

Ronaldo may leave depending upon where we end up ,end of the season.

Shaw and Maguire is not going to leave but definitely rumors are they aren't good enough.

Another couple of windows ,shhh !!
 
bond19821982 said:
Its quite clear that we need a rebuild again. How do we end up making the same mistake every fecking time? Tear everything the previous manager has built and start again.

Pogba, Lingard, Donny, Martial, Hendo , AWB ,Mata will leave.

Ronaldo may leave depending upon where we end up ,end of the season.

Shaw and Maguire is not going to leave but definitely rumors are they aren't good enough.

Another couple of windows ,shhh !!
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Sometimes things are blown out of proportion. We do not need to tear it up.

If we can get rid of the players you have mentioned, we will have freed up over £1m in wages and got £60m transfer fee at the minimum.

£30m RB
£60m on two CM
£60m on a ST

We will be a competitive team, we still have some good players imo.
 
romufc said:
Sometimes things are blown out of proportion. We do not need to tear it up.

If we can get rid of the players you have mentioned, we will have freed up over £1m in wages and got £60m transfer fee at the minimum.

£30m RB
£60m on two CM
£60m on a ST

We will be a competitive team, we still have some good players imo.
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£60mil for two CMs will get you a Longstaff and maybe half a Xhaka.
 
Definitely dont need a rebuild. We need to coach our players better. Get them motivated, get the hunger back into them. Create competition for places again. Get the manager position sorted out. Theres always natural turnover as in any business.

Agree with most 2 x CM's would really help. Thats the priorty this summer.
 
I'd like to see a cool, smart rebuild.

Lots of old-timers and past-it/unmotivated players are shipped out and bang-for-buck, young, talented and driven players in. Max 100 mil and 5-6 players for bench/XI. I enjoy the feeling of a bargain deal and miss these - Chicharito, Vidic, Evra, VDS (last 3 during the same window, wow!) Tevez, Rafael. VdB would have been that one, but usually we overpay or just buy players who are known already.

It's like the club is too rich and doesn't care about smart accounting.

But yes, I'd like to see additions in LB, CB, RB, CM, DM and ST. Would be difficult, but arranged. Hope that Ralf has a very, very clear vision and plan to start executing and with a 100 mil 5-6 players can be arranged, definitely.
 
romufc said:
Sometimes things are blown out of proportion. We do not need to tear it up.

If we can get rid of the players you have mentioned, we will have freed up over £1m in wages and got £60m transfer fee at the minimum.

£30m RB
£60m on two CM
£60m on a ST

We will be a competitive team, we still have some good players imo.
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I agree with most of this, I think RB isn't that big of a concern, dalot looks like he can do a job, but with that midfield it's hard for him to have the freedom to go forward. A left winger might be needed as I don't think rashford is the answer their and I wouldn't like to risk elanga being our main left winger.

Also Cavani wages will be freed up as well. I'd say telles and Bailly will want to go for first team football as well.

Greenwood needs to be moved into the center forward position next season. He'll have to sink or swim because imo he's not a wide man.
 
romufc said:
Sometimes things are blown out of proportion. We do not need to tear it up.

If we can get rid of the players you have mentioned, we will have freed up over £1m in wages and got £60m transfer fee at the minimum.

£30m RB
£60m on two CM
£60m on a ST

We will be a competitive team, we still have some good players imo.
Click to expand...
Agree, we will have to build smartly.

That right back kid at Ajax is available for free. We have our own Laird coming back.Lot of midfielders are available for free and we have Mjebri ready to step up.Elanga has already replaced Martial .

A forward and 2 passing midfielders is a must.
 
Steve Bruce said:
I agree with most of this, I think RB isn't that big of a concern, dalot looks like he can do a job, but with that midfield it's hard for him to have the freedom to go forward. A left winger might be needed as I don't think rashford is the answer their and I wouldn't like to risk elanga being our main left winger.

Also Cavani wages will be freed up as well. I'd say telles and Bailly will want to go for first team football as well.

Greenwood needs to be moved into the center forward position next season. He'll have to sink or swim because imo he's not a wide man.
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I guess, we also have Laird back, hopefully his loan spell at Bournemouth is successful so he can be integrated next season.

If that is the case, we will need another forward, I would like to see us get someone like Nkuku that can play various positions.
 
bond19821982 said:
Its quite clear that we need a rebuild again. How do we end up making the same mistake every fecking time? Tear everything the previous manager has built and start again.

Pogba, Lingard, Donny, Martial, Hendo , AWB ,Mata will leave.

Ronaldo may leave depending upon where we end up ,end of the season.

Shaw and Maguire is not going to leave but definitely rumors are they aren't good enough.

Another couple of windows ,shhh !!
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We're not really going to miss any of these players though (AWB excepted, not sure why he is on there). I'm looking forward to them all leaving.

The midfield needs some work, but we don't need to think about rebuilding the entire squad.
 
bond19821982 said:
Agree, we will have to build smartly.

That right back kid at Ajax is available for free. We have our own Laird coming back.Lot of midfielders are available for free and we have Mjebri ready to step up.Elanga has already replaced Martial .

A forward and 2 passing midfielders is a must.
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That is the word, smartly.

Instead of going for the £100m stars, we should build based on what we need. Elanga can play backup, Mejbri id he can step up, I would like to see him given a go this season just to see if he is ready.

If we are out of the top 4 race, we should play him and gear up for next season rather than play Matic, Donny when we know they wont be used.
 
romufc said:
Haidara is £30m
Kessie is out of contract
Touchameni is £30m
Zakaria is out of contract.
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Where do get the Tchouameni valuation? Would be genuinely surprised if he goes for that. He’s playing in the same league that got €80mil for Pepe, €60mil for Ndombele and €75mil for Osimhen.
 
Short to Medium term we need to get rid of/replace Cavani, Ronaldo, Bailly Jones, Mata, Henderson, Donny, Matic, Lingard.

Get rid of all of them and bring in 3/4 younger and more hungry players. We’d be a lot more formidable with a happy and super fit squad.

I’d get Kessie, Alvarez/Vlahovic or the best young RBS striker to develop and Tchouaméni.

if we were smart we could get all those (not including Vlahovic) for about the same price as Sancho, save a lot on wages and visibly improve the squad. So much more energy and strength there. We need to scout smart not expensive
 
romufc said:
https://www.football.london/chelsea...meni-chelsea-transfer-manchester-bid-22549822

https://www.givemesport.com/1806803...xtobox-36m-star-could-move-to-anfield-in-2022

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aurelien-tchouameni/profil/spieler/413112
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Cheers mate. In regards to Transfermarkt I find it very common that players go for more than their valuations. Pepe was on €65mil - sold for €80mil. Grealish €65 - sold for €117mil. Lukaku on €100mil. - sold for €115mil. Just a few examples. I reckon Tchouameni will be at least €50mil.
 
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