This I'm not sure of. I think that if he does well they may give him another season as manager.
Rangnick & Ronaldo
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
He'll close passing lanes and compress the space like the rest to force it wide or long.
The striker position is the one that presses less in most systems, Ronaldo is smart enough to know where to be. Our only historic pressing has been individuals such as Cavani/Tevez so understandbly i think that's what people expect.
The striker position is the one that presses less in most systems, Ronaldo is smart enough to know where to be. Our only historic pressing has been individuals such as Cavani/Tevez so understandbly i think that's what people expect.
I don't think he will be interested in that. Over the last 15 years he focussed on building clubs as a whole and only managed single teams as an interim if necessary (for example in Leipzig to bridge the gap between Hasenhüttl and Nagelsmann who he signed for the following season).
The more successful he is in the next 6 months the more influence the board will allow him I think, but he won't become the permanent manager.
Listen man...Liverpool still hockey teams without Salah and De Bruyne was injured for how long and city looked just as competent...My point exactly...it’s a system, a way of playing that these managers implement and indoctrinate their players into for the good of the team.
don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what my own points were. We are beyond discussion. You argue the points you want to reinforce...I will maintain that Ronaldo in his current state would need to adapt significantly to operate effectively in a pep team and I have seen no evidence of a willingness to adapt at any point in his last 7 or so years...other teams have made him the focal point and he has scored goals but not necessarily improved that teams potency...just became the main Goal scorer. At his age and current ability it makes no sense to change the way a team plays to make him your number one goalscorer...unless it improves the team as a whole...I don’t think it would improve City if they have to change their style to get the best from Ronaldo... and I hope Rangnick recognises that and builds a Utd team that can perform at a high level without relying on one main goal scorer.
Personally I think Ronaldo will do whatever he feels like will win trophies and games. He’s not lazy, he does conserve his energy for attacking which there is no issue with when you’re as effective as he is. However I do think he’ll have to adjust a few things and probably work more on defensive positioning mother than harrying people. Blocking passing lanes and compacting space for people. He doesn’t have to play at a stupid intensity to do that.
However, if his scoring stats weren’t what they are and he wasn’t Ronaldo, then there wouldn’t be a conversation Cavani would be your first choice.
Anyway hopefully Ragnick will have the leadership to say to Ronaldo not this game. He probably shouldn’t be playing every game as is and there should be better rotation so he’s good for the run in.
However, if his scoring stats weren’t what they are and he wasn’t Ronaldo, then there wouldn’t be a conversation Cavani would be your first choice.
Anyway hopefully Ragnick will have the leadership to say to Ronaldo not this game. He probably shouldn’t be playing every game as is and there should be better rotation so he’s good for the run in.
Ronaldo isn’t the problem …he‘s always the solution! The best goal scorer of all time who just needs half a chance from positions most top strikers wouldn’t even try from. Allied to this there is also a fantastic football brain and bullet proof confidence and positivity Rangick would be a fool not to embrace CR7.
Why not both? Rangnick often used a front two, and Ronaldo has usually played off another true 9.
It is possible that we will see this happen.
Carrick is setting things up for Ralf.
Ronaldo ends his days as flat track bully?
What people don't understand is they think "pressing" is the only defensive work, and then think Lewandowski is a passenger in the game.
I haven't seen Bayern recently but the season when they won the CL, they played one of the most absurd high line in the whole world. You can't play that way if have even one passenger out of possession. He might not do the "pressing", but he runs and do excessive work for his teammates.
Messi too in the Pep days, Messi started to become a passenger in the mid 2010s, go look at the 2009 Champions Final game. He constantly cooperates with the team movement to keep possession and when looses the ball he automatically reacts with the rest of his teammates to retain the ball again.
Both of them (Lewandowski and prime Messi) never just stand at the top waiting for the ball to come to them. Messi nowadays does and that is why PSG is not going to win the Champions League.
Let's see how that goes, personally I think now United have a better chance.
I haven't seen Bayern recently but the season when they won the CL, they played one of the most absurd high line in the whole world. You can't play that way if have even one passenger out of possession. He might not do the "pressing", but he runs and do excessive work for his teammates.
Messi too in the Pep days, Messi started to become a passenger in the mid 2010s, go look at the 2009 Champions Final game. He constantly cooperates with the team movement to keep possession and when looses the ball he automatically reacts with the rest of his teammates to retain the ball again.
Both of them (Lewandowski and prime Messi) never just stand at the top waiting for the ball to come to them. Messi nowadays does and that is why PSG is not going to win the Champions League.
Let's see how that goes, personally I think now United have a better chance.
We aren't FC Ronaldo, we are Manchester United. Under a top manager we will see less of Ronaldo imo. For all the raving about his goals, his workrate is non-existent these days and his overall game declined a lot. Juve had similiar issues here and there with him too. Especially in top games we will need to find a solution for that to balance our attack and overall game. In the end the results on the pitch are the most important thing, not who scores the goals
Everyone who is saying Ronaldo saved us all the time already and where would we be without him forgot that Bruno did pretty much the same all the time last year and we were overall much better? In Ole's whole time attacking players hit good form and saved our ass over and over again and his whole plan relied on putting as many class individuals on the pitch to get away with the lack of our tactics and it totally backfired this year. Bruno and Ronaldo don't really work together, Bruno was basically like a kind of striker in his time here so far, now he has to drop deeper and his game suffers for it, because Ronaldo is occupying the free role upfront and his weaker performances for Portugal show something similiar. Haven't really seen many convincing performances from Portugal lately either despite Ronaldo scoring a good amount of goals, so in the end we have to ask ourselves the question if sacrificing a bit of his goal output actually helps the team to perform better. It's not as simple as just adding Ronaldo's goals on a very good team if you put him into a side and we saw that at Juve who declined with every further year and also with us beeing much worse than last year.
I think we have to choose between both here and there or try out Bruno in a wide attacking role. Ronaldo obviously is not the problem or the only issue but he is definitely one of many things our next manager has to figure out.
For me it's fine. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, but at 37 I never expected him to start every game like he did under Ole. It's not healthy for everyone bar Ronaldo's stats. He will be great and useful for us in several scenarios but I don't think he will feature as much under Rangnick and someone like Ten Hag potentailly in the summer. I still expect them to use him obviously and find the best balance for our team.
That's why I am a little bit worried if we go for Pochettino, seems like he struggles to drop someone at PSG for the sake of balance and he might have similiar issues here. Carrick showed a first glimpse for that today, let's see how it works against Tuchel, I would be more confident if the midfield wouldn't be so inferior in comparison to Chelsea.
Everyone who is saying Ronaldo saved us all the time already and where would we be without him forgot that Bruno did pretty much the same all the time last year and we were overall much better? In Ole's whole time attacking players hit good form and saved our ass over and over again and his whole plan relied on putting as many class individuals on the pitch to get away with the lack of our tactics and it totally backfired this year. Bruno and Ronaldo don't really work together, Bruno was basically like a kind of striker in his time here so far, now he has to drop deeper and his game suffers for it, because Ronaldo is occupying the free role upfront and his weaker performances for Portugal show something similiar. Haven't really seen many convincing performances from Portugal lately either despite Ronaldo scoring a good amount of goals, so in the end we have to ask ourselves the question if sacrificing a bit of his goal output actually helps the team to perform better. It's not as simple as just adding Ronaldo's goals on a very good team if you put him into a side and we saw that at Juve who declined with every further year and also with us beeing much worse than last year.
I think we have to choose between both here and there or try out Bruno in a wide attacking role. Ronaldo obviously is not the problem or the only issue but he is definitely one of many things our next manager has to figure out.
For me it's fine. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, but at 37 I never expected him to start every game like he did under Ole. It's not healthy for everyone bar Ronaldo's stats. He will be great and useful for us in several scenarios but I don't think he will feature as much under Rangnick and someone like Ten Hag potentailly in the summer. I still expect them to use him obviously and find the best balance for our team.
That's why I am a little bit worried if we go for Pochettino, seems like he struggles to drop someone at PSG for the sake of balance and he might have similiar issues here. Carrick showed a first glimpse for that today, let's see how it works against Tuchel, I would be more confident if the midfield wouldn't be so inferior in comparison to Chelsea.
Yes! great post! This is exactly what I am trying to say. Ronaldo would be a amazing player if used in certain scenarios but if he needs to start every game then he IS a problem.
Ronaldo is one of those professionals who will work well with anyone. Take him to league 2 and he will be among top scorers there too.
Well that would come as a shock if he wasn’t.
I think its aklso worth rememberring that Ronaldo will almost certainly of had playing time requirement put into his Utrd contract, probably 'Start 70% of games' or something close to that. So in the end it doesnt matter what the new boss wants, or thinks.
It could mean Ronaldo going after his 2 years is up though, which would be a shame for me.
It could mean Ronaldo going after his 2 years is up though, which would be a shame for me.
What
I don't care if Ronaldo plays or not, so long as Ragnick ends up doing what is best for the team.
Ronaldo is a great goal scorer. But if dropping him turns us into a better team, do it
Ronaldo, despite not being at his peak, still does a lot more running than some people make out, though.
Ronaldo is a great goal scorer. But if dropping him turns us into a better team, do it
Ronaldo, despite not being at his peak, still does a lot more running than some people make out, though.
It’s not easy for elite players to adopt the style of technically lower teams.
Should change your name to RedDrivel, because that's all you've come out with so far.
Well, I think today's game proved my point? Third big game of the season, actually worked as a team and even scored a goal.
Also, Ronaldo came in later in but honestly add nothing.
I rather see as, some people here try to understand the game and suggest something best for the team (including me) while some are just blind for the love of one player.
Even if I somehow get your point, phrasing it like that doesn't seem right. I don't know any team in the world, that I would categorize as a well-pressing side that you wouldn't also praise for their workrate. Granted, a pressing team doesn't have to press all the time therefor has periods in the game to rest but pressing is compressing space, this isn't a static thing and even if one player isn't needed to go full throttle, that certainly doesn't work for more than one player in a side. If done right, it is a team thing.
Ronaldo's pressing stats are awful and when I say awful it's literally worst performing attacking player in the PL and CL-kind of level. Even Leo "walking around the pitch all the time" Messi is outperforming him comfortably.
Just check Pressures and Succesful Pressures per 90 minutes and you will find him close to rock bottom in both competitions, it's definitely an issue and people saying "he is fit" or "look how he is running around" don't really seem to understand the issue.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/defense/Premier-League-Stats
https://fbref.com/en/comps/8/defense/Champions-League-Stats
I am pretty sure he like the rest of our players can improve in that area under a proper manager but it's important to note that he is miles off an even just bad level so far.
Putting Ronaldo into the team for his goals means sacrificing other dimemsions to our game and that doesn't even touch things like touches or build up-ability in our game where he is also one of the worse performers in our team.
Everyone wants us to play like Rangnick or Ten Hag wants to, everyone wants to see that "Gegenpressing" it's fair to say that it might not work all that well with Ronaldo in the team.
Just check Pressures and Succesful Pressures per 90 minutes and you will find him close to rock bottom in both competitions, it's definitely an issue and people saying "he is fit" or "look how he is running around" don't really seem to understand the issue.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/defense/Premier-League-Stats
https://fbref.com/en/comps/8/defense/Champions-League-Stats
I am pretty sure he like the rest of our players can improve in that area under a proper manager but it's important to note that he is miles off an even just bad level so far.
Putting Ronaldo into the team for his goals means sacrificing other dimemsions to our game and that doesn't even touch things like touches or build up-ability in our game where he is also one of the worse performers in our team.
Everyone wants us to play like Rangnick or Ten Hag wants to, everyone wants to see that "Gegenpressing" it's fair to say that it might not work all that well with Ronaldo in the team.
No, everyone doesn't want to see that. You apparently want that, that's one person.
So what do you want to see?
Yeah I just imagined Ten Hag leading comfortable the poll for our next manager and all those positive comments in the Rangnick thread. Thank you for all your arguments and the meaningful contribution to this thread.
Go look at the next manager thread and then look at how many people wants Ten Hag
I mean this would be a good point if juventus hadn't declined much further this year, it's pretty obvious Ronaldo was improving that side, they declined while he was there because they had an aging side that they hadn't bothered to replace. We're worse this year because solskjaer didn't really have much in the way of tactics and was bailed out by individual brilliance, and a lot of those individuals have been exhausted by a summer without much rest. Under a proper manager Ronaldo will be a big asset to this team, like a much better version of aguero in city's side
Agree, you cannot question Ronny nobody can. People are and I don't know how he will fit into the squad
35 year old Raul played for Schalke under Rangnick. Ronaldo would be fine.
Rooney pressed.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-be-sacrificed-at-manchester-united-vxqnwqcxf
Michael Carrick’s decision to drop Ronaldo at Stamford Bridge on Sunday was surely influenced. Against the European champions Chelsea, Carrick didn’t want Thomas Tuchel’s team to simply play through them and, afterwards, praised his front three of Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bruno Fernandes for “knowing when to press and when to drop off”.
A taster of what is to come? Rangnick’s history suggests that he is unwilling to negotiate a philosophy that led Schalke to the Champions League semi-finals, Hoffenheim from village club to Bundesliga power, and RB Leipzig from Germany’s fourth division to a force within European football.
Michael Carrick’s decision to drop Ronaldo at Stamford Bridge on Sunday was surely influenced. Against the European champions Chelsea, Carrick didn’t want Thomas Tuchel’s team to simply play through them and, afterwards, praised his front three of Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bruno Fernandes for “knowing when to press and when to drop off”.
A taster of what is to come? Rangnick’s history suggests that he is unwilling to negotiate a philosophy that led Schalke to the Champions League semi-finals, Hoffenheim from village club to Bundesliga power, and RB Leipzig from Germany’s fourth division to a force within European football.
It's not that difficult imo. Play him when we face the weaker teams. Rest him when not. Or use him as a super sub, throw him in and pump balls into the final third like mad when we desperately need a goal and don't care about defending anymore. Just don't start him against any team with a better midfield than ours, until we get a better one.
I agree with this, it had several marked departures from our previous big game tactics
(a) Switch to a hybrid 4-3-3 / 5 ATB type structure with a proper DM, almost mirroring Chelsea's shape. AwB, Telles were able to close down their opposition numbers as a result.
(b) Bruno as a false 9 leading the press - in an almost a Firmino type role for Pool with Sancho / Rashford as forwards.
(c) Fred very high up the pitch trying to force turnovers. The 4 man defensive block (the current tactical meta in football) was comprised of Matic at DM, Bailly, Lindelof and McT almost at RB.
In attack the shape almost looked like this.
---------- Rashford --------- Sancho ------------
----Telles ---- Fred ------ Bruno ---- AwB ----
---------------------- Matic ------------------------------
--------- Bailly ---- Lindelof ------ McT ----------
I feel like the shape collapsed after Ronaldo came on. The press wasn't working quite as well, Ronaldo missed the runner in the last min leading to Rudiger's chance etc.
My prediction is that Rashford will be our primary goal scorer going forward.
Whatever happens Wreck It Ralf is his own man and won't be dictated to by the board about what players to pick especially since he's on a short 6-month contract it's a free hit for him in a way. So if he picks Ronaldo in his team it's on merit and vice Versa if he doesn't it's because he doesn't fit into Gegenpressing or however he wants the team to play.
The Hipsters choice along with Eric Ten Haag managing the biggest and richest club in Holland. Just please Own ya shite if it all goes wrong as you love a manager talking about tactics and buzzwords like Gegenpressing and The Professor.
The Hipsters choice along with Eric Ten Haag managing the biggest and richest club in Holland. Just please Own ya shite if it all goes wrong as you love a manager talking about tactics and buzzwords like Gegenpressing and The Professor.
Last edited:
This. Especially the bolded part hit the nail on the head. I'm baffled by the number of people who think there will be no problem with Ronaldo in the pressing system.
Apart from the fact he's 36, which plays a huge role, he never played in a high press system. Also, he was always the least involved defensively attacker, starting from his United games.
My guess is not much will change, maybe he will position himself better in regards to the team, but he won't run around closing passing lanes, because his game requires preserving energy off the ball so that he can use it when we get it back.
I only have one question, if he is this bad at pressing, why did Pep want him?
Do people not understand that these stats are largely dictated by the team's style?
Ronaldo's doesn't play for a pressing side. He hasn't played for a pressing side. His team have been pretty much always been about sitting deep and countering because he was probably the greatest player ever at doing just that.
He doesn't have to go chasing every ball down. If he can cut off one pass at a given time then he can play in the system. He's not the guy who'll be winning the ball back but the one they'll look for to finish off transitions - He'll just have to do his role and I'm sure Ralf will want to weaponise his attacking movement.. There's no way he took this job without discussions about Ronaldo's role.
Ronaldo covers nearly 2km more per game than Messi. He can still run. Maybe let's see him become this huge problem before losing our minds about it.
A missed opportunity for us. City would have been relegated if they tried to press with Ronaldo in the team by the sounds of it.
They would have tried to work around him, same as we likely will. And would have benched him in certain games, as we just did.
I mean there's no question that he's shit at pressing. He could double or triple the amount he does and still be among the very worst attackers in Europe in that regard. But that doesn't automatically mean you can't accommodate him into a pressing system. It might be a more limited system but then you get the compensation of the things he's actually good at, which can make it worthwhile.
Why would it be a shame in 2 years he'll be 39 if he's still in the team then we'll be in big trouble, we need to move on from the nostalgia of Ronaldo, id even say i wouldnt be overly bothered if he left in the summer as it would save the circus of him being left out of the team and the i cant believe he dropped him rhetoric when if we are being honest he needs to be rested at the age he is at and we need to pick and choose the games he plays in.
Furthermore i think for him to survive and play in Rangnick,s team being out of the side will actually prolong his career with us rather than be a detriment to him or the team as a whole.
And lastly if there is a playing time clause the club are morons for doing it as it would undermine the manager completely.