Ralf: United switching to 4-3-3

No formation in the world can work if our cm's can't hold the ball or string together three passes.

They're turd and cannot be polished.
 
I cant believe switching to 433 hasn't fixed all of our problems.
 
Feel like Pogba will have a strong end of the season in the role Fred played today in order to ensure Madrid do buy him and don't cast their eyes over at someone else like Bellingham or Barella.
 
Of course, we need a very good no.6 for this. But I am liking this formation. It should work against weaker things for now.

Fred in particular suits his role really well with his energy and pressing. Having Bruno and Fred as no 8 gives us a bit of urgency up front.
 
romufc said:
Its our biggest issue. Look at the goals we concede, if we had someone in the midfield who can recognise danger, we win the game against Villa.

If we have a midfielder that senses danger, Moutinho is closed down.
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Saw I got quoted a few times so will just reply once!

I don't disagree that ultimately upgrading midfield, including a DM is v.important to us progressing as a team but I don't think it's what's stopping us from being able to compete for top 4 personally. I think there are wider issues in the team, including how casually we have been giving the ball away, that until that is fixed, signing a top DM is not going to solve. They might do a better job of nullifying the danger but there is only so much one person can do.
 
433 is the way to go. The key to it working is the whole team pressing together and attacking as one.
Our FB's need to able to bomb up and down the pitch and the CH's need to cut out the mistakes. Neither McT or Fred are holding midfielders they need to be in front of a DM, then it should work.
 
Ash_G said:
Saw I got quoted a few times so will just reply once!

I don't disagree that ultimately upgrading midfield, including a DM is v.important to us progressing as a team but I don't think it's what's stopping us from being able to compete for top 4 personally. I think there are wider issues in the team, including how casually we have been giving the ball away, that until that is fixed, signing a top DM is not going to solve. They might do a better job of nullifying the danger but there is only so much one person can do.
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I agree that one of the biggest problems we have is ball retention, that will come through coaching IMO.

However; we are not compact when we defend though, which a CDM will help us, marshal the back line and the midfielders, winning the ball back and making sure the spaces in the midfield are not big.
 
romufc said:
I agree that one of the biggest problems we have is ball retention, that will come through coaching IMO.

However; we are not compact when we defend though, which a CDM will help us, marshal the back line and the midfielders, winning the ball back and making sure the spaces in the midfield are not big.
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Agree- my point was that I feel that the coaching for the ball retention and more widely making us a more cohesive team where the team are playing for the collective good rather than at times seemingly playing for themselves is the biggest thing we could change to get us into top 4 (as title is gone) and would have more impact that adding a DM in. Going fwd to improve the team I agree we'd want to look at midfield as a priority.
 
Ash_G said:
I don't disagree that ultimately upgrading midfield, including a DM is v.important to us progressing as a team but I don't think it's what's stopping us from being able to compete for top 4 personally. I think there are wider issues in the team, including how casually we have been giving the ball away, that until that is fixed, signing a top DM is not going to solve. They might do a better job of nullifying the danger but there is only so much one person can do.
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The tricky thing with the current team is that I think there is the framework of a very good team there. There are just a lot of little niggles that need ironing out. I think that some sort of catalyst would solve some of those. Ultimately we are low on confidence, fitness and our work rate on and off the ball isn't good enough. A string of good results would solve a couple of those issues and its amazing how much more energy you have when you are happy and winning.

When you are winning, the odd misplaced pass doesn't bother you, the run that wasn't made doesn't put you off making the pass next time.

There are some serious issues that will take time and effort to sort out but a decent DM would give the team a boost and take a bit of pressure off in a lot of areas. One that can actually marshal the defence and midfield would be amazing.
 
There is some logic in this formation in that we get some natural width and try and patch over our midfield holes with numbers. It doesn't completely resolve that situation by any means but even Matic can probably hold if he's got 2 proper bodies around him in deeper areas.

The downside is I'm not sure Ronaldo as a front man in a 4-3-3 is the best fit. But there is not a single formation that comes without problems for us in some areas.
 
Biggest issue is Ronaldo in a 4-3-3. It’s not that he cant be effective in that formation necessarily but it’s not something he has ever done. He tends to drift left and against Villa he was very deep which doesn’t suit him because he is not particularly good on the ball.

My feeling would be that the focus should not be on fitting Ronaldo in but instead on how we make Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood and Elanga into an interchangeable and dynamic front 3. Yes the work rate and positioning out of possession need to improve but the thought of Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford linking up developing a chemistry - considering their ages, is so exciting. RR needs to get on it.
 
Missed the last few games how has this been working? Who has RR been picking? Hoping for McT/VDB/Bruno or even Pogba being used with Bruno but imagine it will be same old McFred/Bruno. Either way quite excited to go back and watch them, even McFred should improve with Bruno closer to them.

Not that i want to dig up the past as a stick to beat the guy with any further but cant deny it was a big reason my circle of friends started to dislike Ole as a manager quite early on in that the 4-3-3 was a significant part of his caretaker success. Really felt like he was building something, only to switch upon becoming permanent that punted Pogba (basically his only consistent form in a United shirt) back to a 2 while pushing Lingard/Pereira as the main creative outlet instead. Which was of course dreadful until Bruno came two years later.
 
Newtonius said:
Missed the last few games how has this been working? Who has RR been picking? Hoping for McT/VDB/Bruno or even Pogba being used with Bruno but imagine it will be same old McFred/Bruno. Either way quite excited to go back and watch them, even McFred should improve with Bruno closer to them.

Not that i want to dig up the past as a stick to beat the guy with any further but cant deny it was a big reason my circle of friends started to dislike Ole as a manager quite early on in that the 4-3-3 was a significant part of his caretaker success. Really felt like he was building something, only to switch upon becoming permanent that punted Pogba (basically his only consistent form in a United shirt) back to a 2 while pushing Lingard/Pereira as the main creative outlet instead. Which was of course dreadful until Bruno came two years later.
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Its been McFred and Bruno. VDB was loaned to Everton a couple of days back. The West Ham game was probably the most we've controlled a game under Ralf. Bruno playing as an 8 with Fred gives us more control by the looks of it. Bruno is good enough to influence things from deeper but he needs to stop rushing some of his passes sometimes. With Pogba back from injury, you'd think that we'll see a few other combinations being tried in the coming weeks - McT/Pogba/Bruno and Fred/Pogba/Bruno although Fred seems much better off as an 8 than a 6. Players coming back from injury (Pogba,Shaw, Sancho) hopefully gives us more options and unlocks the right combinations soon.
 
Newtonius said:
Missed the last few games how has this been working? Who has RR been picking? Hoping for McT/VDB/Bruno or even Pogba being used with Bruno but imagine it will be same old McFred/Bruno. Either way quite excited to go back and watch them, even McFred should improve with Bruno closer to them.
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Even when we played McFred + Bruno, it's actually fairly different from Ole-ball. Bruno basically gets a free role in attack with additional defensive duties and Fred is a proper #8 - gets forward quite a bit and doesn't sit back and screen alongside McT.

McT in the Fabinho like role - not a natural there, but he'll learn or we'll sign someone new.
 
Teja said:
Even when we played McFred + Bruno, it's actually fairly different from Ole-ball. Bruno basically gets a free role in attack with additional defensive duties and Fred is a proper #8 - gets forward quite a bit and doesn't sit back and screen alongside McT.

McT in the Fabinho like role - not a natural there, but he'll learn or we'll sign someone new.
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That sounds pretty much like Ole to me.
 
McFred played in a double pivot for majority of Ole's reign. It was only in the last 6 to 9 months that they played in more of a 1+1 midfield two.

Rangnick's midfield three is quite different to both of the systems that Ole played.
 
Are we playing a proper 4-3-3 with Pogba and Bruno. I felt like off the ball it was more of a 4-2-3-1.
 
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