Ralf: United switching to 4-3-3

[sparx99]

it isn’t. He has still misplaced passes and lost the ballhigher up the pitch on serval occasions - hauled off at half time vs Newcastle and on the bench for the next 2 shows that he isn’t polished enough at times and it costs him when he decides to take that extra touch or play a ball to a player that has 3 of the opposition around him. It’s the same mistakes happening, he isn’t the only one but it’s a simple example that there needs to be more to it than just changing our shape a bit.

That’s not terminal to being a key part of the team. The problem is we don’t have a Kroos or Jorginho. He’s still got the physical attributes to play a similar role as Casemiro or Kante. Neither Kante or Casemiro play as a DM. They are ball winners and box to box who get about the pitch recovering possession before giving it to the playmakers.

We’ve been asking too much of Fred and McTominay by playing them in a two. One of them as part a three will get more out of them.

 

[Tibs]

If so, will need a solid DM to make up for Pogba/Bruno in the middle

 

[Solius]

It worked for half an hour on Saturday. We need a better 6 than Matic or McTominay though.

On a side note he also said Matic contract was expiring in the summer which was odd.

He also said Sancho was 23-24 which was strange.

 

[Carl]

I think CR could be dropped in the new 433 system with Bruno playing the pseudo-9. Mcfred will be fine doing the double 8 (at least for the rest of the season). the 6 is the most concern position and i don't trust Pogba in 6 at all.

Ronaldo isn't getting dropped mate.

 

[Carl]

433, 4231, 4222, 442, 4141, whatever. It’s the same players. All this is irrelevant until we sign a fecking DM.

Aye. The obsession with formations on here is something to behold.

 

[TwoSheds]

Well if nothing I'm glad we're finally going with it.

I don't think we have a striker or DM that can adequately do those roles, but anyway. We'll see. Maybe he uses McTominay as the lone 6. Hope to see more of Greenwood centrally too, he needs development there IMO.

feck that, the lad needs to learn how to pass to teammates in better positions, putting him centrally will only make him shoot from stupid positions even more IMO. I'd like him to play really wide, ideally on the left but on the right if Elanga or Rashford are playing.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Finally we're giving it a shot. Does this point to getting another midfielder in or are we banking on either Matic or one of McFred holding when it's not really their suited position? Presume Bruno will play a more withdrawn role. Hell there could even be more chance for Donny.

Or RR will try to continue Carrick and McKenna job in coaching McTominay to DM

 

[Infra-red]

Difficult to see where Fernandes fits in. Also quite difficult to see how we can make this work with only one #6 at the club (Matic).

 

[Leftback99]

He also said Sancho was 23-24 which was strange.

He's from the future.

 

[Borys]

That is Bruno ‘in a 3’ tbf - he can’t play there. He’s a number 10/second striker, asking him to play in central midfield isn’t natural to his game. He’s always looking to peel high up the field.

Absolutely true. We've seen Bruno a bit deeper lately, and although he is helpful there, he makes up for half of a midfielder and a quarter of "Bruno #10".

 

[Alfie092]

About time as it was clear for all the see that a double pivot, whether in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-2-2-2 wasn't working. However, I still have concerns about our midfield and our ability to control games as the players we have are just not that good to be honest but I do feel an extra man in the middle would help with controlling games a bit better. Feel that extra man would be Bruno, who will be playing a bit more deeper. He needs to buckle up his ideas though as while he produces a lot of assist, mainly through taking a lot of risks with his passing, when playing deeper it could be a major problem for us so he has to play it a bit more safe but at the same time you do not want to fully restrict Bruno.

My front 6 would ideally be with a fully fit squad:

Bruno -- I hate picking the no 6 -- Pogba

Sancho -- Ronaldo -- Elanga

Until Pogba is back we can hopefully see some VdB in a number 8 role but I doubt it. You could also play Pogba on the left of a front 3 and play Bruno and VdB as two number 8's.

While we still need major surgery in other areas of the pitch, it's quite clear to see the major weak point is the number 6 position and I really do hope we can sign one this January window to help improve on our weakness but I just don't see us doing any sort of business

 

[Ekeke]

Finally we're giving it a shot. Does this point to getting another midfielder in or are we banking on either Matic or one of McFred holding when it's not really their suited position? Presume Bruno will play a more withdrawn role. Hell there could even be more chance for Donny.

Bet it still ends up being Fred and McTominay, just with one of them supporting the attack a bit more.

 

[horsechoker]

The only solution I see to our midfield problem is to buy.

 

[Solius]

Fully fit Pogba "like a new signing" as Utd happy to wait until the summer to sign a midfielder.

 

[Zlatattack]

I'm glad he's doing this. We need the bodies and the creativity in midfield. Agree with everyone that we need a 6.

 

[Carl]

Fully fit Phil Jones "like a new signing" as Utd happy to wait until the summer to sign a midfielder.

Fixed that for you. Also look for headlines where X player will be "unleashed" to "unlock" another..

 

[flappyjay]

As I said to a few lads, Fred higher up still plays like Fred.

Heavy touches, sloppy passes. You can flip and move player’s, but if they keep repeating the same mistakes with heavy touches and sloppy passes - the same poor results will come.

our downfall in large part is our own unforced errors. Your useless pricks need to pull the finger out as no formation play will fix that.

More men in midfield would hopefully stop teams from marching through our midfield every game.

 

[Highfather_24]

If so, will need a solid DM to make up for Pogba/Bruno in the middle

We need a solid DM regardless of who plays ahead, as Matic is our only #6. And also, no matter who that DM is, playing both Pogba and Bruno is a not a viable long term plan. We should play either one, with Fred/McT/VdB as our other #8.

Now that Pogba is back, VdB falls further down the pecking order. Its so pathetic for him, its funny now.

 

[Marcus]

Time for a midfield of McT, VDB and Bruno. Let's try this Ralf!

 

[Smores]

Bet it still ends up being Fred and McTominay, just with one of them supporting the attack a bit more.

That's the thing it's never a static formation. We'll end up closest to 4231 in attack and 442 in defence i reckon.

I'd personally play Bruno on the right of the front 3 and have him drift inside with Dalot overlapping. We don't need two players to maintain width so let Elanga do that on the left.

 

[Mickson]

Aside from the #6 issue, there's also the question as to how Ronaldo fits into that shape alongside our other attackers. He's not exactly the ideal lone CF.

He will fit in nicely on the bench. Impact player last 20-30 if needed.

Also, people who think we will not get totally overrun with Pogba, Bruno, and McTominay as a midfield three are living in La La Land.

 

[Cloud7]

Nice. This suits the existing midfield players we have with the exception of Bruno. I wonder if he will be able to adapt his game to a deeper role rather than being a shadow striker.

 

[El Jefe]

Other than the fact a 433 is what most have wanted us to line up with for years RR is just scrambling from one formation to another hoping to stumble onto something. He's already tried and failed to implement a 4222 and did no better falling back onto Ole's 4231. Wasn't even like we were any good against Villa with the 433 anyway, as soon as Villa stopped being passive and actually took the game to us they were dominating.

I give it until our next defeat until Ralf tries a 5 at the back

Nail on head. Not sure how people aren't seeing this. Buendia and Ramsey were picking apart our midfield at will even with three midfielders in there.

The only positive impact on our midfield comes from Pogba returning rather than any formation change. That however comes at the expense of defensive solidity in midfield which is already quite weak.

 

[daveskimufc]

Fergie played him there.
Or Lindelof, considering he played that role for Benfica.

I think lindelof would do a job there.

he is mobile, relatively quick, won’t hold onto the ball too long and can spray a pass.

my issue would be if he is pressed, he would give the ball away too much

 

[The White Pele]

We need discipline from Bruno to make this work. I have more confidence of that happening under Ralf as I think he is quite clear in what he wants from each role.

Im not sure who would be best placed to play DM. Fred is better suited to playing higher and the same goes for McTominay.

 

[justsomebloke]

Aye. The obsession with formations on here is something to behold.

Well, no less annoying is the steady chorus arguing as if formation doesn't matter at all. Evidently RR disagrees with this, otherwise he would hardly have bothered changing the formation.

Formation matters, and a lot of other things matter too. That a change in formation will not in itself solve our issues does not mean that finding a formation that works isn't part of the solution.

 

[justsomebloke]

Nice. This suits the existing midfield players we have with the exception of Bruno. I wonder if he will be able to adapt his game to a deeper role rather than being a shadow striker.

That would be my main objection to a midfield three too, but the Villa game does seem to suggest he can thrive in that role.

 

[Ekeke]

That's the thing it's never a static formation. We'll end up closest to 4231 in attack and 442 in defence i reckon.

I'd personally play Bruno on the right of the front 3 and have him drift inside with Dalot overlapping. We don't need two players to maintain width so let Elanga do that on the left.

I'm not saying its what I want. It is in fact what I dont. But its the most boring and the least changes and therefore what I expect

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The only solution I see to our midfield problem is to buy.

Man Utd... buying.... a midfielder?

 

[VinzentFTW]

Stupid with only Matic for the DM in the squad. It will be the same old crap wrapped up in different paper.

 

[Garethw]

I agree. 10 good games at DM. new contract. Glazernomics

I wouldn’t go that far

It shows you how bad it’s become when I honestly think that Jones would be a better option there than Matic. Crazy isn’t it?

 

[talking robot]

would rather see lindelof or garner at dm than mctominay or fred. mcfred should be competing for a spot as a #8.

 

[UnitedSofa]

433, 4231, 4222, 442, 4141, whatever. It’s the same players. All this is irrelevant until we sign a fecking DM.

Jokes on you when we sign a DM & we’re still shite

 

[Remember the geese]

The 4-3-3 in theory is the way to go, but in practice it just won't work. Not with our current options. As pointed out by everyone, we don't have a number 6 (a past it Matic aside). Also, I assume that part of the plan is to drop Bruno a bit deeper. Possibly even pair him with Pogba. Neither of which will work to our benefit. To compile the problem even further, every effort will be made to start Ronaldo too. I am yet to see much evidence that this gets the best out of anyone. Fernandes especially.

In my opinion, the only way we can make 4-3-3 work effectively is by signing a defensive midfielder. A McTominay upgrade would be nice too, but let's be realistic. If we paired the prospective new defensive midfielder with any two of Fred, McTominay or Pogba, then we would have good balance. Bruno as a false 9. Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho/Elanga/Amad up with him.

 

[united for life]

Finally. Matic should start in that cdm role. He’s the only one qualified for that. When tired, scot can fill in

 

[VanDeBank]

Who is the 6 going to be? We only have Matic who can do it for 45 minutes before he is too knackered to run anymore.

More like 60 minutes. For the remaining 30 mins: Pogs if we're behind, McSauce to shore up the game?

 

[KennyBurner]

We don't have good enough player to play as 6.

Matic doesn't have legs, Fred is more suited to box to box role and 6 negates his best attribute, pushing higher up the pitch and press.

McT doesn't have the ability to move off the ball to be an option, it will be hard to build the game with him as 6.

Only option I see is de Beek, not sure if he suits that role. Also with him, his best attribute is making runs in the box.

We will just have to depend on Matic for 60 minutes. By then we have already won the game.

 

[roonster09]

We will just have to depend on Matic for 60 minutes. By then we have already won the game.

Such a shame after spending billion, we have to rely on players who can do job for half time.

 

[VinzentFTW]

433 is the formation i want to see with United in the future, but we need two new midfielders for it. A DM like Rice, Tchouameni, Zakaria or Neves with a box to box like Haidara, or Bissouma. Knowing United they will probably buy 2 who doesnt fit together with Bruno or only 1.

 

[Cloud7]

That would be my main objection to a midfield three too, but the Villa game does seem to suggest he can thrive in that role.

I would never object to a shift in anything based on a single player. All the top teams play with three in midfield (Except for Bayern where Muller is as functional as a midfielder anyway). If Bruno cannot adapt to that then we move on.