Ralf: United switching to 4-3-3

Positive move in theory, but the lack of CDM options is a worry. Need a player, but I doubt we'll get one.
 
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giggs-beckham said:
Inclined to agree. It's why I posed the question. Pog left front three?
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Most ideal solution has always been the same, since the first day. Make a choice between them.

At some point, we absolutely have to try to start building a quality unit and play a blend of players who, when combined collectively, make the machine better. I’m not confident we will do that, personally.
 
To get proper balance and to get the best out of our players I think a 4-3-3 needs to consist of Bruno/Pogba/VDB, McTominay/Fred and Matic. Biggest problem is that Matic is the only player who is natural at DM, second biggest problem is that we need to upgrade on Fred/McTominay.

Also, our two best midfielders play the same role.
 
I thought this would be the formation we'd use when we first appointed him.
 
Other than a 100 y.o Matic, none of our player has brain for no. 6.
 
Leftback99 said:
It worked for half an hour on Saturday. We need a better 6 than Matic or McTominay though.
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Matic got booked in the 31st minute. From that moment on he was unable to tackle & we lost control of the midfield. Not saying that wouldn’t have happened anyway as we all know Matic tires badly & as such isn’t a proper option for anything more than a substitute nowadays but having watched the game back I think that’s the moment the game really began to turn.
 
A new formation won't have as much impact as some expect.

Ole would still have been sacked playing a 433. Under Ralf 4222 was bad and 4231 while better was still well below the required level. It seems that we play well for a half whenever RR tries a new formation and we turn to shit after. Going by the 433 against Villa, it looks like we are on course to follow the same pattern.
 
I’d rather give Jones a shot at the 6 role than have Matic there every fecking game.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
Good, I hope this is real news. Will suit our players and give us more control in midfield which we desperately need.
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Yep. Our midfielders aren't good enough to hold their own as a two. Plus a front 3 plays to our strengths with the likes of Greenwood getting more space.
 
I think Varane can play as a six. But of course why sacrifice your best defender and play thim out of position?
 
Step in the right direction, feel like the players don't have the footballing intelligence in positioning (especially the midfield) to navigate the 4-2-2-2 effectively. 4-3-3 is brilliant the club's best periods post SAF have come under this system and the most consistent run to date was with Pogba, Matric and Herrera in the middle.
 
Good, but do we have enough midfielders to do a job there?
 
DRJosh said:
Why is he releasing tactical plans to the media?
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I don't think formation and tactical plan are interchangeable in terms of sensitive information. To be honest, one can literally just look at how the team lines up at kick off and they'd be able to work out our formation.
 
Love it ! Have been crying out for this for over a year, especially against the smaller teams. Think McTominay will play as the DM and then Fernandes + Pogba will complete the midfield when the latter is fit.
 
Great news. Rashford shouldn't be getting anywhere near the starting eleven right now. Elanga and Greenwood for me.
 
Doing the lineups kind of makes one realise how inconvenient it is our creative outlets need 2 DMs while our best forwards are best in a front 3. I'm with the 433 though so the midfielders need to pull their own when we don't have the ball. Tired of high maintenance players who aren't even that great. Worst part is this could be directed at any 4 or 5 players in our first team. Permanent manager has some tough unpopular decisions to make.
 
This is the most suitable formation for this group of players though we are short of 1 DM. Everyone compliments each other in attack and defence but we will still be cooked 1 goal a game due to the lack of a good DM.

Good to see ralf trying different ways for getting the best from the players. Would love this midfield.

Scott/Matic
Bruno/Vdb Pogba/Fred
 
We can play 4-6-0 and still get dominated in midfield because we have players who are not utd quality and they're downing tools aswell.

Onwards to brentford having the lions share of the possession.
 
Aside from the #6 issue, there's also the question as to how Ronaldo fits into that shape alongside our other attackers. He's not exactly the ideal lone CF.
 
4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 doesn't make difference, it's not the formation that controls the game, it's the playing principles of coach and how he implements it. You can dominate and control game with 1 or 2 midfielders, likewise you can look completely out of sync playing 3 CMs. We should start playing as a team irrespective of which formation.
 
Hopefully Bruno will actually play as part of a three rather than effectively make it a 4231. Also we'd have to see how McFred especially the Mc part does.

Theoretically I like it.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Hopefully Bruno will actually play as part of a three rather than effectively make it a 4231. Also we'd have to see how McFred especially the Mc part does.

Theoretically I like it.
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We don't have good enough player to play as 6.

Matic doesn't have legs, Fred is more suited to box to box role and 6 negates his best attribute, pushing higher up the pitch and press.

McT doesn't have the ability to move off the ball to be an option, it will be hard to build the game with him as 6.

Only option I see is de Beek, not sure if he suits that role. Also with him, his best attribute is making runs in the box.
 
Carrick made us play in a 433 when in possession, which transitioned into a 442 / 4231 when defending. It seemed to suit our players.
 
No way we can play in that 4-3-3 if we don't buy a DM, Fred and McT cannot be trust to play as DM recently.
And we all see that Matic declined after 60mins when he played last game.
 
Tarrou said:
Cool

we don’t have great 6 options though

I’d pick Fred there
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I wouldn’t necessarily be mad seeing it tried again as we’re low on options there, but I recall Fred doesn’t have a good track record playing that deep. He hasn’t developed consistency with passing, and has a habit of losing the ball on his off days.

Personally I’d sooner see Jones there until the inevitable happens.
 
roonster09 said:
4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 doesn't make difference, it's not the formation that controls the game, it's the playing principles of coach and how he implements it. You can dominate and control game with 1 or 2 midfielders, likewise you can look completely out of sync playing 3 CMs. We should start playing as a team irrespective of which formation.
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I think it does matter a bit because it dictates team selection: You are either playing an extra midfielder (instead of a forward) or you're asking Bruno to sit much deeper than he typically does (no more runs into the box pretending to be the second striker).

For #1 - In a 4-3-3 we can never play Greenwood, Rashford, Ronaldo, Cavani as our front four, with a 4-2-2-2 that was what we did.
For #2 - (If Bruno plays) He will sit deep next to someone like Fred.

And before you say it, I do think overall having that extra midfielder instead of a forward makes a difference.
 
VanHaal'sRedArmy said:
Donny at the 6 incoming in 3...2...1
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I'd love to see this but based on current subs under Rangnick, he's a Bruno backup. I think it'll be Pogba #6.

Ole tried this and it was a disaster but I think that's more to do with our tactical intelligence at that point than anything else.
 
Teja said:
I think it does matter a bit because it dictates team selection: You are either playing an extra midfielder (instead of a forward) or you're asking Bruno to sit much deeper than he typically does (no more runs into the box pretending to be the second striker).

For #1 - In a 4-3-3 we can never play Greenwood, Rashford, Ronaldo, Cavani as our front four, with a 4-2-2-2 that was what we did.
For #2 - (If Bruno plays) He will sit deep next to someone like Fred.

And before you say it, I do think overall having that extra midfielder instead of a forward makes a difference.
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All this changes is Bruno will play bit deeper, it won't magically fix all the issues like our players not making enough off the ball runs, our players not making themselves as option to receive pass, not playing with enough intensity.

In this set up all it changes is Bruno will play bit deeper. We didn't play forward as attacking mid, it was always Bruno or at times De beek.
 
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