Ralf’s 4-2-2-2

His insistence in playing two wingers there and leave the creativity to matic/McT is baffling
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Let’s face it, it’s not 4222. It’s 442. 4222 is when you have number 10 wide. We have wingers playing wingers and static forwards. It’s bog standard 442 from the 1990s. Well actually Fergie’s ones were more complex with more technical players.
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We'd be better if it was just a simple 4-4-2. At least there might be some kind of link up on the wings.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
We controlled games under LVG most games we had 80% possession, our problem was creativity. I dont remember teams playing us off the park under him.
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3-0 against Arsenal for starters
 
Bastian said:
It's not working. But it doesn't excuse the players lacking the ability to pass a football or fight for 2nd balls.

Rangnick surely will have to recognise now that we don't have a strong enough midfield to handle this formation, and our weak midfield is not supported by a technically and mobile central defense to compensate, or from hard working wide attackers. We need 3 in the middle.
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Exactly. Why is he so stubborn? I know he hasn't had time to train them properly and they're almost certainly not fit. But we just don't have the players for this formation. So why can't he see that and switch it? I'm a little worried tbh. He talks a good game and I'm sure he will be good once (and if) he steps upstairs. But right now he seems to be making some really obvious bad decisions and I don't get it.
 
We’re playing a 4-4-2 in attack.. it’s really not the formation but touches, passing weight, tempo, movement that’s the problem.

Formations are useless if your defense doesn’t have a way to connect to your midfield and midfield doesn’t have a way to connect to your forwards.
 
RedCurry said:
We’re playing a 4-4-2 in attack.. it’s really not the formation but touches, passing weight, tempo, movement that’s the problem.

Formations are useless if your defense doesn’t have a way to connect to your midfield and midfield doesn’t have a way to connect to your forwards.
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If you change formation you can have an extra man in midfield to be able to achieve that link up.
 
It doesn't seem much different from Ole's derided and imbalanced throw-the-kitchen-sink 4-2-4. Sancho, Greenwood, Cavani and Ronaldo is basically a front four, and a flat one if that image above is anything to go by. You're only really getting any tracking back out of Sancho, and none of those four are particularly good at playing in the space between the midfield two and the attack.
 
The problem of this formation is lack work rate of our team. Ronaldo, Matic cannot press during 90 mins as well in this age, it needs two CF to drop back and go forward to create the space which need a lot of stamina who Ronaldo haven't. Also, CM need to push forward to compress the space which need a lot of stamina who Matic haven't.
Three aged player cannot play within 4 days is also a problem of the selection.
 
It’s astonishing how some people in here expect any new system or tactics to work immediately and if they don’t then they should be changed immediately. Everyone wants change here but if we don’t win 4-0 next game with the new system, then they’ll want change again.

If football was that easy to completely change a team with just a few games of management, then we would have so many world class managers all around the world. There’s a reason why most people are better off just posting on forums and not being managers.
 
Long Time Red said:
He definitely looks naive at the moment. This 4-2-2-2 system was supposed to bring control but we haven't really controlled any of the games thus far.
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How can we possibly control it when we aren't playing players that can keep hold of the ball, we don't have a strong enough CDM, nor god enough full-backs to provide the width and then we're compounding this by playing two up front, one of which can barely press? It's clear as day that this isn't working yet we're continuing with it. Surely the two 10s are supposed to provide creativity but we're using wingers up there, along with Matic who's not quick enough and McTominay who's not creative. We have zero creativity and the entire formation is working against us due to our players not fitting it. Very worrying if he's not seeing this.
 
Created nothing in about 5 games yet plays 2 strikers? Completely pointless if you can’t get on the ball or better yet put 3 passes together
 
Any players and managers will suffer from MCT in 2 men midfield. Look at how neves gives so much space for teammates by simple smart positional games, and moutinho dodging presses just like simple turns. It's just how bad our midfield is, everything, everyone including prime Messi, Ronaldo will look bad with this joking pair of midfielders
 
Chief123 said:
It’s astonishing how some people in here expect any new system or tactics to work immediately and if they don’t then they should be changed immediately. Everyone wants change here but if we don’t win 4-0 next game with the new system, then they’ll want change again.

If football was that easy to completely change a team with just a few games of management, then we would have so many world class managers all around the world. There’s a reason why most people are better off just posting on forums and not being managers.
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Just nothing happening though this isn’t players trying a new system it’s basic football gone wrong
 
Castia said:
Just nothing happening though this isn’t players trying a new system it’s basic football gone wrong
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That’s what Arsenal fans were saying for a long time with the same system they are playing now under Arteta. If it wasn’t for gradual process, Arteta would be sacked long ago and they would definitely not be sat in 4th right now.

I know we don’t have great rhythm right now, but it isn’t as doom and gloom as some are making out either. We have had some big openings which on another day end up in goals and totally change the mood.
 
charlenefan said:


I mean
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Something fundamentally wrong to have a formation based on closing down the opposition in pairs and yet somehow acheiving no control. This is with a back 6!

No real difference to Ole's back 6, front 4 and no ability to join these together.
 
It’s horrific to see this formation, we’re being dominated at home by Wolves. We have zero width and every time our full backs push forward to offer some form of width we’re left horribly exposed either side of the centre backs.

What’s the point of having Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford and Diallo if they’re likely to play as dual 10’s when they’re very much wide players or Fernandes who is a 10 on the bench ? What’s the point in playing any combination of McTominay, Fred or Matic when they’re meant to be our creativity in midfield ?

Ronaldo and Cavani are in others way instead of supporting each other, it says everything that Phil Jones has been our best player and he hasn’t played for us in over a year. Nothing has changed at all from how we played under Ole other than we play narrower but all the basics and fundamentals are still the same, piss poor and confused players.
 
It hasn't since the first 20 mins Vs Palace. Why is he still insisting on it?
 
What a failed experiment, we haven't played well in one single game since he took over.
 
Utd should have kept Carrick until the end of the season. Ralph's never won any major trophies in his entire career, nor managed a big club anywhere. He was nothing more than a classroom lecturer who came up with the principles of heavy metal football, but it was Klopp who turned it into a winning formula, and won trophies with it. Utd have basically hired another Ole, with simply more experience of being an Ole.
 
Seems bizarre, in hindsight, to hire a manager for 6 months whose preferred "system" couldn't be a worse fit for the players we have.
 
Needs to change this it’s absolutely dreadful

Been wank from the Palace game till now and he couldn’t have hand picked a better run of fixtures
 
There's a big gaping hole in the midfield. No connection between midfield and attack.
 
We don't have the players to be successful in this formation. The technical and passing ability of our mids is extremely limited.
 
It's garbage.

The very fact that no other top team in world football is using it should be a warning sign.
 
Funny people complained about Ole playing 4 - 2 - 4 and someone else came in to play the same with a more imbalanced team.

I don't mind the 4 2 4 or whatever. But what would be the like of Cavani doing in that role in that formation? It is like putting a headless chicken there and wasting him and a space.
 
I question my football knowledge because I have no idea what is the desired state and what we want to achieve with current personnel in this system.
 
Formation irritates me but we played 4-2-3-1 under Ole and tried a 4-3-3 under Carrick and didn't look any better.

There's no magical formation out there that can make up for a lack of quality in midfield and players unable to put in a quality cross.
 
It is a shit formation without very specific players that we don't have. 2 strikers on their last legs who can't press, wide players who want to play in front rather than making runs and that midfield.

Dropping our best player in Bruno to try and make this shite work is dumb.
 
It could function with a pair of midfield like Keane/ Pirlo, Viera/ Alonso, Kante/Scholes. No way you can do it with Matic and Mctominay/Fred. You will get away against Burnley and Norwich but not against 10-12 other teams.
 
It's clear as fecking day this doesn't work. He's not a footballing genius where he sees things others don't. In fact, you have to be absolute fecking dimwit to think it has any chance of being successful with this group of players.
 
This is a complete bastardisation of any 2 up-front formation. Why would you pin your 2 strikers to the opposing CBs?
 
He needs to change many things to get something this season. I hope we have a plan about the next manager.
 
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