Protest planned before Norwich game

The Glazers deserved our contempt but in the end it was executive management that has squandered the riches that the Glazers have made available to them. Someone decided to hire Moyes, then Van Gaal, then Mourinho and then Ole. All failed as managers. The players failed too, and there's not enough space here to go through every mistake but a few gems stand out, such as Fellaini and Sanchez.

Some seemed a great idea, like Pogba, but no coherent strategy was ever put together to get the best out Pogba. There was no vision for achieving footballing success under the executive management responsible for the footballing side of the -- well, football club -- over the last decade.
 
No one else feel its a strange time to protest against the owners?

They bought back Ronaldo (lot of people wanted that)

They sacked Ole and put in an interim with a view to consult on a path for the club from one that hasn't worked

Potentially bought in a manager that everybody really wants in ETH

Obviously spent loads on buying players, albeit there were issues with who they recruited. But now seem to have learnt the lesson of an ad-hoc policy.

I wouldn't say I am happy with the owners and all that surrounds the takeover, dividends etc and I could see the point of the red and gold protests. But now?? Not so sure

The players getting booed i can understand
 
To force a real change, you guys know what you have to do. I do not condone it, but any type of shakeup from the Glazers has to come from the Mancs in the city.
 
downxandxout said:
It's a shame that our fanbase is so divided on this. Surely doing something is better than doing nothing.

As for those saying the Glazers aren't the problem, sure they gave Ed money to spend which he messed up, but the main reason we're so far behind our rivals is the lack of investment in the structure of the club. We've been left behind when it comes to our training facilities, youth facilities, our stadium etc and these things have a massive impact on the way we play.

Having empty seats, even for 17 minutes, will get media coverage which is the best way to get the Glazer's attention.
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The amount of division, apathy and ridicule going around this thread is shocking. The reason why the Glazer leeches get away with it every year. Wow.
 
Chripper said:
War in Ukraine. Thousands dying and dead. Women and children being raped. Possible start of World War III.

But yeah, let's protest about football. The potential of finishing 8th in the EPL... the horrors...

The self of self entitlement is shocking. Yes. We might finish 8th. Actually, I think we will. But the Glazer's aren't totally to blame: The fans wanted rid of Moyes. Done. The fans wanted rid of LVG. Done. The fans wanted rid of Jose. Done. The fans wanted rid of Ole. Done.

On the face of it, the fans keep getting what they want and yet they still bitch and whine.

No wonder the players think they can rule the roost. All they have to do is down-tools, look like they've never kicked a football in their life, the manager will blamed by the fans. Fired.

Rinse and repeat.

But fine. If fans want to protest against the Glazer's. Fine. By all means.
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The Glazers are largely to blame and people can protest that while caring about other things. I watch TV when I could be volunteering to help homeless people. Hell, you made your post when you could have been volunteering.
 
I hope one day somebody like Michael Crick writes a warts and all book about this period of United’s history.
 
ReallyUSA said:
To force a real change, you guys know what you have to do. I do not condone it, but any type of shakeup from the Glazers has to come from the Mancs in the city.
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Kidnapping?

I dislike the Glazers as much as anyone, but a mere demonstration will do nothing.

A mass boycotting of matches and boycotting merchandise is really the only way to go. That isn't feasible, though. I mean, everyone has their own opinions and everyone has their own methods of demonstrating and supporting the team.

The people at the head of the demonstration came out with a "Nothing will change until the head of the snake is removed" slogan. Well, Manchester United is the Golden Goose to them. They won't sell.
 
steffyr2 said:
Do you think the Glazers should do what redcafe says? Or some other fan group?

There was the group that said Utd would be bankrupt 5 years ago or so. Didn’t seem to happen, do you think the owners should take financial advice from people on the internet?

Fans would like a promise that we win everything all the time. Oh and play entertaining football all the time to. And be beloved, don’t forget
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Of course football clubs should interact with their fans. Without fans there is no club. No idea where you get the other shit from about them listening to redcaf as I didn’t state that and it’s just plain silly.
 
Red_toad said:
Of course football clubs should interact with their fans. Without fans there is no club. No idea where you get the other shit from about them listening to redcaf as I didn’t state that and it’s just plain silly.
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Strawman. He didn't say they shouldn't interact with their fans. He specifically said should the Glazers do what they say.
 
Chripper said:
War in Ukraine. Thousands dying and dead. Women and children being raped. Possible start of World War III.

But yeah, let's protest about football. The potential of finishing 8th in the EPL... the horrors...

The self of self entitlement is shocking. Yes. We might finish 8th. Actually, I think we will. But the Glazer's aren't totally to blame: The fans wanted rid of Moyes. Done. The fans wanted rid of LVG. Done. The fans wanted rid of Jose. Done. The fans wanted rid of Ole. Done.

On the face of it, the fans keep getting what they want and yet they still bitch and whine.

No wonder the players think they can rule the roost. All they have to do is down-tools, look like they've never kicked a football in their life, the manager will blamed by the fans. Fired.

Rinse and repeat.

But fine. If fans want to protest against the Glazer's. Fine. By all means.
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So you can only protest anything once all the ills of the world have been dealt with?
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Glazers are not the problem (yes, they take dividends every year).
We have the highest spent for the last decade. More than Real, Barca, BM, City and Liverpool.
They have also committed to improve the club's infrastructures.

The problem was the management team he entrusted especially our dear Ed.
We have an accountant who ran our football club disastrously making every rookie mistakes you can think of for the last 8 fecking years.

The current team, Arnold delegates the football side to Murtough. Early days but it seems not much improvement from the previous team.
They brought in a gegenpressing interim coach only to completely abandon the philosophy 3 months in.
They have also completely abandon the plan of laying foundation for next season high intensity football.
Now the players jog around the pitch match after match.

Who is calling the shots to implement a system and stick to it for long term benefit to the club?
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Of course the Glazers are responsible. They appoint these know nothing slimeballs on the basis of whether they know how to pay dividends, not on the basis of whether they know how to run a football club. Then of course you've the rumours of Joel Glazer personally blocking the sale of Martial because he thought he was a modern day Pele.

They're not as evil as some owners in the league but that is a very low bar to set these days. We deserve better, the league deserves better, football as a whole deserves better.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Glazers are not the problem (yes, they take dividends every year).
We have the highest spent for the last decade. More than Real, Barca, BM, City and Liverpool.
They have also committed to improve the club's infrastructures.

The problem was the management team he entrusted especially our dear Ed.
We have an accountant who ran our football club disastrously making every rookie mistakes you can think of for the last 8 fecking years.

The current team, Arnold delegates the football side to Murtough. Early days but it seems not much improvement from the previous team.
They brought in a gegenpressing interim coach only to completely abandon the philosophy 3 months in.
They have also completely abandon the plan of laying foundation for next season high intensity football.
Now the players jog around the pitch match after match.

Who is calling the shots to implement a system and stick to it for long term benefit to the club?
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Read this thread and tell me again they aren’t the problem:

 
The best protest would be to not turn up, which at the moment is ideal. An empty stadium on a match day would have a bigger impact.
 
Red_toad said:
Of course football clubs should interact with their fans. Without fans there is no club. No idea where you get the other shit from about them listening to redcaf as I didn’t state that and it’s just plain silly.
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Just checking. I was just wondering who you thought they should listen to.
Coxy said:
Read this thread and tell me again they aren’t the problem:

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Maybe there's some advantage to making the club owners feel welcome at the club they own.
 
TwoSheds said:
Of course the Glazers are responsible. They appoint these know nothing slimeballs on the basis of whether they know how to pay dividends, not on the basis of whether they know how to run a football club. Then of course you've the rumours of Joel Glazer personally blocking the sale of Martial because he thought he was a modern day Pele.

They're not as evil as some owners in the league but that is a very low bar to set these days. We deserve better, the league deserves better, football as a whole deserves better.
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I'm not defending Glazers. Everyone hope that we have better owners. But it is what it is. What I was saying is that they are not our main problem. Yes, they took dividends and didn't manage to get a right CEO for football side.

Now, we need to focus on the real problem which is getting the right football people (hopefully Murtough is the one) to establish a football structure in the club and then identify the right managers and players for the club long term.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I'm not defending Glazers. Everyone hope that we have better owners. But it is what it is. What I was saying is that they are not our main problem. Yes, they took dividends and didn't manage to get a right CEO for football side.

Now, we need to focus on the real problem which is getting the right football people (hopefully Murtough is the one) to establish a football structure in the club and then identify the right managers and players for the club long term.
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None of which the fans can affect. All the fans can do is show how pissed off they are. I think protests are under-utilised in this country in general as a way of letting those in charge know that the public is unhappy.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I'm not defending Glazers. Everyone hope that we have better owners. But it is what it is. What I was saying is that they are not our main problem. Yes, they took dividends and didn't manage to get a right CEO for football side.

Now, we need to focus on the real problem which is getting the right football people (hopefully Murtough is the one) to establish a football structure in the club and then identify the right managers and players for the club long term.
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To be honest, I hope they have good accountants. My theory has been for a while that there are plenty of people happily lining their pockets with some of the $1B the Glazers have spent on players in the last few years. I also think that the 'protests' are events that show up when the Glazers start to pay too much attention to the club.

BTW, what's a better owner? It seems to come down to lots of free money. Not a very high standard.
 
Butty19 said:
The best protest would be to not turn up, which at the moment is ideal. An empty stadium on a match day would have a bigger impact.
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We just had a whole year of empty stadiums, and what difference did it make??

Fact is protests are pointless, and are there to just satisfy the ego's of those that turn up, they don't help to bring a change of ownership, after this protest the Glazers will still be in charge, people the next day will go into the megastore and buy merchandise.

Nothing will have changed due to this protest, it is just being done to get a few likes and clicks for those individuals twitter and YouTube accounts.

I get the cathartic nature, if wanting to do something, anything, to vent one's frustrations, and anger towards the Glazers, that much is obvious, as they have left Old Trafford especially to rot away, plus taken huge chunks of cash out of the club.

However, a few people chanting for a couple of hours, or setting of a few flares, whilst they sit in America, will change absolutely nothing, the day to day running of the club will remain unchanged.

So, these protests, just seem all a bit futile really.
 
MUW4Eva said:
We just had a whole year of empty stadiums, and what difference did it make??

Fact is protests are pointless, and are there to just satisfy the ego's of those that turn up, they don't help to bring a change of ownership, after this protest the Glazers will still be in charge, people the next day will go into the megastore and buy merchandise.

Nothing will have changed due to this protest, it is just being done to get a few likes and clicks for those individuals twitter and YouTube accounts.

I get the cathartic nature, if wanting to do something, anything, to vent one's frustrations, and anger towards the Glazers, that much is obvious, as they have left Old Trafford especially to rot away, plus taken huge chunks of cash out of the club.

However, a few people chanting for a couple of hours, or setting of a few flares, whilst they sit in America, will change absolutely nothing, the day to day running of the club will remain unchanged.

So, these protests, just seem all a bit futile really.
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I'd say the fact that you have bothered to write a response on a thread based around a 'potential' protest proves that protests do in fact work.

To quantify that, you are correct in saying the Glazers will still be in charge, however what the protest will do is get people talking about the ownership and the fact that the changes they specified will be made after the last protest really haven't been implemented yet.

The merest fact that you are discussing it online and it hasn't actually happened yet should disprove your point that protests are futile, as the more people that hear about this the bigger the discussion, and that fundamentally is what this protest is designed for.
 
Champ said:
I'd say the fact that you have bothered to write a response on a thread based around a 'potential' protest proves that protests do in fact work.

To quantify that, you are correct in saying the Glazers will still be in charge, however what the protest will do is get people talking about the ownership and the fact that the changes they specified will be made after the last protest really haven't been implemented yet.

The merest fact that you are discussing it online and it hasn't actually happened yet should disprove your point that protests are futile, as the more people that hear about this the bigger the discussion, and that fundamentally is what this protest is designed for.
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Okay.....because a discussion on here, has or will help to bring about a complete change in mindset from the Glazers, or to even make them sell the club, or to find a new owner, or group???

Protests are great fodder for debate, news shows to discuss, people to go to; to vent their respective frustrations, and anger, all of that, sure.

What protests are not good for, is creating solid change, what has changed since the Liverpool protest??
Something about a share scheme which hasn't yet come into force, and errrrrrr.....

People are still going to games, both at Old Trafford, and at Leigh Sports Village to watch both of our first teams, people are still buying merchandise, both in the physical store, and online.

Nothing has changed due to that Liverpool protest, so why will anything change due to this one, or subsequent ones?

There will be headlines about it on the day sure, but after that, what will happen outside of Old Trafford the next day?

The only people that will be there the next day will be those on the tour, or to go to the Megastore, so why should the Glazers pay any attention to a group of people for a few hours??

Answer, they most likely will not.
 
MUW4Eva said:
Okay.....because a discussion on here, has or will help to bring about a complete change in mindset from the Glazers, or to even make them sell the club, or to find a new owner, or group???

Protests are great fodder for debate, news shows to discuss, people to go to; to vent their respective frustrations, and anger, all of that, sure.

What protests are not good for, is creating solid change, what has changed since the Liverpool protest??
Something about a share scheme which hasn't yet come into force, and errrrrrr.....

People are still going to games, both at Old Trafford, and at Leigh Sports Village to watch both of our first teams, people are still buying merchandise, both in the physical store, and online.

Nothing has changed due to that Liverpool protest, so why will anything change due to this one, or subsequent ones?

There will be headlines about it on the day sure, but after that, what will happen outside of Old Trafford the next day?

The only people that will be there the next day will be those on the tour, or to go to the Megastore, so why should the Glazers pay any attention to a group of people for a few hours??

Answer, they most likely will not.
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This is a sad and defeatist post. The Liverpool actions forced a reaction from the Glazers. But we see now none of the promises have been met, so some including MUST were perhaps too keen to swallow the PR. Stadium revamp, even the planted stories gone quiet. Share ownership, stalled. Joel meeting the fans, no chance. Sponsors took notice before and will do again. Anyone who genuinely cares about the future of this club needs to start taking action.
 
MUW4Eva said:
Okay.....because a discussion on here, has or will help to bring about a complete change in mindset from the Glazers, or to even make them sell the club, or to find a new owner, or group???

Protests are great fodder for debate, news shows to discuss, people to go to; to vent their respective frustrations, and anger, all of that, sure.

What protests are not good for, is creating solid change, what has changed since the Liverpool protest??
Something about a share scheme which hasn't yet come into force, and errrrrrr.....

People are still going to games, both at Old Trafford, and at Leigh Sports Village to watch both of our first teams, people are still buying merchandise, both in the physical store, and online.

Nothing has changed due to that Liverpool protest, so why will anything change due to this one, or subsequent ones?

There will be headlines about it on the day sure, but after that, what will happen outside of Old Trafford the next day?

The only people that will be there the next day will be those on the tour, or to go to the Megastore, so why should the Glazers pay any attention to a group of people for a few hours??

Answer, they most likely will not.
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Did you not read the statement from the organisers?

I guess not, otherwise you would understand that this is the start of continued legal protests until the change that the Glazers promised actually happens.

Already multiple media outlets have picked up on it and its all over social media, which has led to a wider discussion already about why these protests are taking place (ie, the Glazers haven't followed through on their promises).

These protests are not about stopping people from going to OT or watching the Womans team, or stopping them from buying merchandise etc, they are taking place to put the ownership back in the public eye, which in turn will put pressure on the Glazers to follow through with their words. They even use the words 'raise awareness' in the protest staement,

Needless to say, without the protest even taking place, people are discussing the ownership and why these protests are happening, which shows that the momentum is building again.

I suggest you read the statement again in order to understand the reasoning behind them.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I'm not defending Glazers. Everyone hope that we have better owners. But it is what it is. What I was saying is that they are not our main problem. Yes, they took dividends and didn't manage to get a right CEO for football side.

Now, we need to focus on the real problem which is getting the right football people (hopefully Murtough is the one) to establish a football structure in the club and then identify the right managers and players for the club long term.
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But they really are our main problem. The problems start at the top. Years of rewarding fecking appalling management from the board, one of the only clubs where the owners actually take large amounts of money out as dividends in the whole league, stadium falling apart, occasional meddling at first team level. Absolute disgrace to the club, even more than the likes of Kenyon in the past, just a hateful omnishambles of ginger greed.
 
Hope many Norwich fans fancy the trip from Norfolk, we need as many Green and Gold scarves as possible!
 
Champ said:
I'd say the fact that you have bothered to write a response on a thread based around a 'potential' protest proves that protests do in fact work.

To quantify that, you are correct in saying the Glazers will still be in charge, however what the protest will do is get people talking about the ownership and the fact that the changes they specified will be made after the last protest really haven't been implemented yet.

The merest fact that you are discussing it online and it hasn't actually happened yet should disprove your point that protests are futile, as the more people that hear about this the bigger the discussion, and that fundamentally is what this protest is designed for.
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Exactly, my friend. The scrambling to make excuses for the owners is just odd.
 
On the regularly made point of the glazers backing the managers:

We have spent over a billion in the last 9 years. Ok, but they sucked out more than that. After selling Ronaldo for a world record fee, we brought in Owen, Obertan and Valencia. We missed out on the likes of David Silva and Eden Hazard due to ‘no value in the market’.

When Fergie retired, the squad was clearly in need of several big signings. In Moyes’ first summer he identified the likes of Kroos. The Glazers, Woodward and Judge dragged their feet. Eventually, we made the shambolic decision to sign Fellaini on deadline day for more than his release clause had been a month earlier. One average midfielder.

By this stage, we were existing in a position of weakness and became desperate. It was no wonder we struggled under Moyes.

This leads to the next manager and point. Van Gaal has been quoted as saying ‘he thought we could sign pretty much anyone’. Remember Woodward’s ‘we can do things that other clubs can only dream of’? So arrogant.
It was reported that often Van Gaal was left with players 7th on his list of candidates. Van Gaal realized that a lot of new players were needed but the bean counters again dragged their feet and we were left with several bargain basement signings like Herrera, Rojo and Schweinsteiger. Again, this all comes back to how accountants were controlling squad funds and of course, the massive debt that had to be serviced each year and the dividends that wer paid.

Moyes was called ‘dithering Dave’, but it has been made clear by how we have conducted our transfer business since, that it was the board and recruitment team causing the hesitation and delay.

We were basically signing squad players as first teamers thinking that we had saved money. And again, coming from a position of desperation and because of who we are (Woodward’s comment), we actually had to overpay to even get those signings over the line. Therefore, of course we were spending quite a bit. When you think of the prices of players in the transfer market of the last 10 years, of course the spend will be big. Andy Carroll - 35m.
The actuality is, we probably needed to spend more to get the 1st or 2nd choice players in. But of course that wasn’t allowed due to the constraints of Glazernomics.

Meanwhile, Man City, whose squad was already better than ours at Fergies retirement spent more than us. And for them, if a player wasn’t cutting it, they sell him and sign an upgrade. If not for the Glazers, we would have been able to outspend them instead of slipping backwards every season.

So, we’re in even more desperate a place. We overpay for players but if they need to be moved on at a loss, the Glazers and Woodward drag their feet and give new contracts. Martial and Pogba should have been sold years ago and the money reinvested efficiently.

To sum up, yes we have spent money, but it is far from black and white. The price of top players in the last 10 years. The amount of top players needed to stay competitive. The going for 7th choices. The United tax. The position of desperation rather than strength. Not being able to sell a player and buy a better one quickly.

Look at Barcelona and Real Madrid. They were in financial turmoil but are doing everything to stay competitive and look to be on upward trajectories again. If they had to spend two billion in 5 years to win trophies no one would care.

Basically, due to the type of board and recruitment team we had and who we are as a football club (the United tax) we actually needed to spend a lot more.
80 million on Maguire and 90m on Pogba….that’s almost 20% of a billion. If they’re not good enough two seasons later we should be able to sell them at a loss, and move on quickly. If the next player costs more then so be it.

The whole recruitment system is heavily tainted by the Glazer ownership.

Of course, if you have a shrewd, football experienced board and recruitment team, you can save money. But we didn’t until recently.
No matter what though the debt and dividends will always be a weight around the club’s neck and it’s wrong.
 
Why do we always blame the Glazers? The Glazers have spent money on players and given us what we want. Its their club, If we dont like it, lets all the fans in the world bring their savings and make them a crazy offer that they cant refuse

If we were winning trophies, we wouldn't care about the Glazers, talkless of board management
 
Chripper said:
War in Ukraine. Thousands dying and dead. Women and children being raped. Possible start of World War III.

But yeah, let's protest about football. The potential of finishing 8th in the EPL... the horrors...

The self of self entitlement is shocking. Yes. We might finish 8th. Actually, I think we will. But the Glazer's aren't totally to blame: The fans wanted rid of Moyes. Done. The fans wanted rid of LVG. Done. The fans wanted rid of Jose. Done. The fans wanted rid of Ole. Done.

On the face of it, the fans keep getting what they want and yet they still bitch and whine.

No wonder the players think they can rule the roost. All they have to do is down-tools, look like they've never kicked a football in their life, the manager will blamed by the fans. Fired.

Rinse and repeat.

But fine. If fans want to protest against the Glazer's. Fine. By all means.
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Why does everything need to be compared to war?
There's always a war somewhere.
 
Champ said:
No,

But what has that got to do with the protests?
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The fact that it sends out the wrong message to the players?

They will feel liberated, almost like the blame isn't on them for our atrocious season, when it is.

As for the Glazers, they've signed three star names last summer, have started the restructure of the club behind the scenes, and appear to be going for the manager the majority would like in the dugout. Plus Woodward is gone, I'm not sure what else people expect them to do. It's not like the club isn't well backed in the transfer window.

I'd be all for protesting the players lack of grace and effort on the pitch, but not the Glazers at this precise time.
 
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