I used to like Fight Club too, until I watched it again recently. Pitt ruined it for me.
Problem with certain actors
- Thread starter Mihajlovic
- Start date
I just think that he was an extremely dedicated actor who wanted to be perfect in every role he was playing. Assuming he was quite fit before the role in Cape Fear and the fact that he prepared for 9 months I think it is quite possible to get in that kind of shape without using steroids even though he was quite old.
One interesting thing about him in this film is that he isn't really that big and he just looks normal when he has a shirt on. But when he's shirtless he looks fecking massive and built like a weapon because so little body fat and so much muscle gives that illusion.
Is it just me or Matt Damon also kinda manifested this problem somewhat? Jason Bourne appeared in The Departed, Will Hunting is a thief in Ocean's gang 
I have to agree about Tom Cruise. Whatever you feel about his beliefs/personal life the guy is talented. He was pretty solid in War of the Worlds and again pretty solid in Walkure. I even thought MI:3 was good. MI:2 on the other hand is quite possibly the worst movie I've ever seen ;p
Agreed. I used to hate him, but after seeing good movie after good movie of his I grudgingly came around to the fact that my dislike came from his media profile, not his acting. Leonardo DiCaprio is another in the same boat. I quite like both of them nowadays.
Tom Cruise is similar as well. Hate the bastard, but unfortunately he's quite a good actor and he's in two of my favourite movies (Last Samurai and War of the Worlds).
I think most people have come around to leo dicaprio... except those who think they are too manly to like such an actor (in other words they do like him but are too busy bumming their mates to admit it)
Yea, DiCaprio is another fantastic actor that gets unfair stick for rising to prominence with a couple of romantic roles based around his looks. I'd say he's actually a much better actor than Pitt though, one of the finest of his generation, and one who has always taken on interesting and different roles, despite the common misconception that he's just a pretty boy.
Even in those roles: "Romeo + Juliet" and "Titanic", they must have been enticing prospects for any upcoming actor. The first is a modern interpretation of a Shakespearean classic, done in an extremely original and contemporary style. The latter, which is the one he gets the most criticism for, was directed by James Cameron, who's previous work included "The Terminator", "Judgement Day", "Aliens", "The Abyss" and "True Lies". It's a story about one of the most famous and intruiging tragedies in recent history. I thought he did a commendable job in both, considering that he was, IMO, miscast in both as this isn't his type of role.
What you have to realise, is that those roles are far from what he was ever capable of. Prior to them, he was in "This Boy's Life", where he starred alongside Robert De Niro and Ellen Barkin as a rebellious youth with an abusive step-father. He acted De Niro off the screen in a couple of scenes and showed enormous potential. Then he was in "What's Eating Gilbert Grape", where he played a mentally retarded kid, and again stole every scene he was in, including the many with Johnny Depp. He was nominated for an Academy Award for this performance and very possibly should have won. Then he starred in "The Basketball Diaries", portraying a lad who becomes addicted to drugs. He had to alter his performance throughout the course of the film, as it covered a number of years as you see him growing up with these problems.
So he was never about exploiting his looks for a few corny romantic roles, he was a very gritty young actor. Since then, he has been nominated for another 2 Academy Awards and 6 Golden Globes, appearing in "Gangs of New York", "Catch Me If You Can", "The Aviator", "The Departed", "Blood Diamond" and "Revolutionary Road". He was brilliant in every one of those, especially "Blood Diamond", where he was noted for pulling off the usually very difficult South African Afrikaner accent to perfection.
I think a lot of the people that still don't rate him, either haven't seen those films, or just can't get past him being in "Titanic".
I agree. DiCaprio is a very good actor, the problem with him is, however, similiar to the things I explained in my opening post, for many people he's still just 'the good looking, sweet DiCaprio' and not the character he plays. I especially rate The Aviator, he was awesome in that one and I was able to see beyond his Titanic face and grasp Howard Hughes or whatever his name was.
DiCaprio could have been like many others of his generation like that guy from Fast and Furious, Ryan Reynolds, Orlando Bloom, Ryan Philipe, and many other pretty faces, yet he developed in a class of his own.
Nice read..
What do you think of Johnny Depp?
What do you think of Johnny Depp?
Good choice actually, Johnny Depp is one of best examples around right now for an actor that really can sink into a role completely. He's a difficult one though, because if I'm being honest, I don't rate his dramatic acting chops quite on the same level as Day-Lewis, Bale, Hoffman, Norton or Penn, but he is definitely an actor I love watching and one with great range.
Off the top of my head, the only films I've seen him in where he could be taken completely seriously are "What's Eating Gilbert Grape", "Donnie Brasco" and "The Ninth Gate". He's good in them, but like I say, not outstanding by any means; "Donnie Brasco" would be the standout and he was very good there, but probably on the same level as say, Ray Liotta in "Goodfellas". He's an intense actor (as is Will Smith), and is very believable (as is Tom Wilkinson), but doesn't really put me on the edge of my seat like Daniel Day-Lewis in "Gangs of New York" or Edward Norton in "American History X".
His work in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" trilogy, especially the first one, is terrific. No other actor could have played that role as well as him, because he created a fresh and original character in Jack Sparrow. He was no longer Johnny Depp the world famous actor, now unrecognisable as the man who had appeared as Edward Scissorhands or Donnie Brasco or his character in "Once Upon a Time in Mexico". You could watch him as Jack all day without thinking that it was him playing a character, because you just can't take your eyes off him and want to believe that somebody like that actually exists. That's an excellent performance, whether it's comedic or dramatic.
He's done a lot of those quirky roles, actually that's what he's made his name off. But they all required different qualities and he threw himself into all of them entirely and believably. When I see him in a film, perhaps he doesn't always grip my attention as others would, but I do believe that character, which is the aim of the game I suppose and also the point of this topic.
Lately, Johny Depp is basically the same guy in every movie.
Johnny Depp is awesome. I think he is unique, a perfect example of character variety. Too many good movies to even mention. My favourites are Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Sleepy Hollow, Scissorhands, From Hell, but I also liked him in more convenient roles, Donnie Brasco, Blow, or Public Enemies.
Best thing about Johnny Depp is that I dont know who Johnny Depp is, if this makes sense. You only see him in movies, playing the most diverse characters than any other contemporary actor, imo. He doesnt exist beyond or outside of the screen, due to his hollywood bullshit resentment, which is always a good thing. I approach every movie he's in quite unbiased.
Depp's stopped trying now. But to be fair to him, up until the Pirates sequels he never took the easy big-money roles. Great actor, though he might not be remembered because he's not been in many truly great films.
Iron - fair points re Brando. I guess it's that, as people have pointed out, even great character actors inevitably bring something of themselves to the part, and Brando was such a huge personality that it came through a lot, whoever he was playing.
Anything - I don't really see the relevance of Clooney being smug...
Iron - fair points re Brando. I guess it's that, as people have pointed out, even great character actors inevitably bring something of themselves to the part, and Brando was such a huge personality that it came through a lot, whoever he was playing.
Anything - I don't really see the relevance of Clooney being smug...
Hmmm, I wouldn't say so. He does very extreme characters, but that doesn't make them similar. "From Hell", "Finding Neverland", "Pirates", "Sweeney Todd", "Public Enemies" -- all very different moods of film with a range of characters on display.
For instance, he's quirky in "Pirates" and "Sweeney Todd", but for different reasons. Jack Sparrow is full of life, certain that nothing can stop him and he exudes confidence. Sweeney Todd on the other hand, is a depressed, spiteful soul seeking revenge for a lost love.
I was one of those people for a long time. Now he's one of my absolute favourites. I've also grown quite fond of Brad Pitt (in a completely non-gay way
).I think that's because he hasnt had a decent 'evil' character to play yet. Day Lewis is insane anyway, and Norton was disgustingly evil in the first part of the movie. For me this creates that tension. Something wicked and dramatic like Harvey Keitel in 'Bad Luitenant', De Niro in 'Cape of Fear', Jack Nicholson in 'Shining', or even Ralph Fiennes as Amon Goeth. The closest Johnny Depp got to play something not even closely similar was maybe 'The Astronout's Wife', and a bit in 'Public Enemies'. I dont think it's his type of role, for some reason, nor am I convinced that he would choose to play something like that (for personal reasons).
Got to say, Sean Penn has astonishing range. Best actor of his generation, maybe one of the best of all time. De Niro and Pacino are parodies of themselves now.
Sorry i wasn't clear enough, i meant that he played most of his roles as a smug character to the point that it just seems like he's playing himself, which makes me question whether or not he really was an excellent actor.
Depp is insanely popular because he is such an enjoyable actor, but unfortunately he will probably be mostly remembered for Pirates. The same thing happened to Bale and Batman, once they take on such a popular role they become superstars and their other work becomes underrated. I think some Bale groupies still remember him for The Machinist though, IMO his best work ever.
Bale did a lot of great work before the Batman films. He's been unfortunate with the press and attention he's recieved as a result of his last couple of roles, and most notably the allegations of assault against his wife and mother, and then the episode with him going crazy at the lighting guy on the Terminator set.
Before he did Batman though, when he was under the radar as a celebrity, he did some great work. He starred in Spielberg's "Empire of The Sun" at the age of 13, which earnt him the first ever "Best Performance by a Juvenile Actor" award from the National Board of Review of Motion Pictures. The Board actually created the award especially for his performance.
Then he did "American Psycho", where he was incredible, one of the best performances you'll see from any of this generation's actors. He was depressingly wonderful in "The Machinist" as you say, and the amount of weight he lost for that role is actually quite frankly staggering (he lost 60-pounds in months, eventually weighing just 120-pounds
). Then he put on 100-pounds for "Batman Begins" just the next year. The guy is insane for commiting himself to any given role, and like Depp, he's one of the best examples of an actor truly becoming a character."The Prestige" is another top performance, although I don't think he really got the credit he deserved for it, as always seems to be the case for him. The scene with his wife, where he's showing her how the bullet-catch trick works is exceptional acting, it really is. He starts off in good spirit, talking playfully with her, but then in a single moment he becomes serious when he points out how dangerous it can be, and the whole mood and feel of the scene changes a little. It's subtle, but definitely noticeable.
"Rescue Dawn" and "3:10 to Yuma" are both great performances too, the former being the more impressive: Like in "The Machinist", he had to lose a lot of weight for the role, making him almost unrecognisable from his performance in "Batman Begins" the year before.
I'd say he's one of the most subtle actors around, and one of the best for drawing you in and making you believe that he really is the character he's portraying. He can do any role you give him and adapt to it, as Plech says, like a chameleon. It's also a good point about actors becoming celebrities away from the screen, and this having an effect. Bale has always shied away from the spotlight, again like Depp, and you could possibly say that neither have done anything as challenging as they did before their big breakthrough work ("Batman" and "Pirates").
How would you rate Heath Ledger Easy V ?
Heath Ledger is nothing special, imo. He had the role of his life in Dark Knight, apart from that I can hardly remember any previous outstanding performances. I must say I havent seen Brokeback Mountain. Maybe his time was just about to begin when he died.
Well funnily enough, and to contradict the claims about Bale and Depp, here's an actor that actually couldn't have benefited any more from the media exposure he recieved, unfortunately that attention came from his own death and he never got the chance to see how highly he was regarded. I have to admit that I didn't really take much notice of him before his death and the subsequent hype around his performance as The Joker. I'd seen him in a few films, but rather ironically, I took the stance that many others did towards Pitt and DiCaprio, in that I saw him as nothing more than a pretty face.
The first time I saw him was in "10 Things I Hate About You", and I thought he was okay, but was more impressed with Joseph Gordon-Levitt's performance at the time. Watching it back now however, it is definitely a very good effort, although you do get the impression that he isn't giving it his all: Like he knows he's capable of more meaty roles. "The Knight's Tale" was similar, you could tell he was capable of more, although he deserves praise for a solid showing.
"The Patriot" was his first dramatic role and he was impressive there, and even more so in "Ned Kelly", which I thought would have attracted more immediate fame and star roles than he went on to. To his credit however, he chose a cameo role in "Lords of Dogtown", where he shines with very little screen time. Then he was in Terry Gilliam's "The Brothers Grimm" alongside Matt Damon; it's a poor film overall, but I like the fact he went with a more experimental and less mainstream director in Gilliam. In that respect, he seems very much like Johnny Depp as a personality, he hates the attention of the media and public and made what may have seemed odd career choices, but for the most part, were clearly the ones he felt were right for him at the time.
"Brokeback Mountain" was the first time I thought I was watching a genuinely exciting talent. After all the talk in the build-up to the release of "The Dark Knight" and him suddenly becoming everybody's new favourite actor, I decided to watch this to see what I'd been missing. He's amazing tbh, intense and passionate, powerful but caring. Very believable.
His magnum opus is undoubtedly "The Dark Knight" though. He really did put himself into the mind of that character with extreme commitment, and it was perhaps one of the causes for his eventual death. He captures your imagination for every moment he's on screen, and there wasn't any point where you could ever believe that this was the same young man that was in "10 Things I Hate About You" less than a decade earlier. That was one hell of a transformation, and it's a shame we won't be seeing any more of him in the future (other than a small showing in Terry Gilliam's latest film).
I know what you mean but in his small Band of Brothers role he was excellent and you certainly were not reminded of Friends.
I think Cruise is criminally underrated, he was great in 'the Firm' and probably had a career best in Jerry Maguire.
Whatever happened to Claire Danes (sp?). She was shit. Maybe not a bad actress, but I really couldn't stand her. Can't remember why though
Great thread...Rather than quote I'm just gonna reel through some of the names mentioned and what I think of them in terms of what kind of actor they are..
I'm talking leading me here..and what makes them so good/not so good, at their particular craft
Pitt is a better actor than most give him credit for...He can be excellent if an out there role suits him (12 Monkeys, Burn After Reading) but he's tarred by the pretty boy brush because, unlike Depp, who was just as pretty but actively shyed away from it, he took the leading man roles offered. I'd disagree with Plech about Se7en as I thought he was quite good. Problem was he was up against Freeman and Spacey who have much more natural ease in front of the Camera. What Brad's good at is charm, which is an incredibly underrated quality in an Actor. Cruise, for example, doesn't have charm when he's a goody. Brad is excellent at doing things whilst he's talking (eating, gesticulating, scratching) that make his performance more natural...Something Brando virtually invented on Screen.
Depp is great actor, but as Plech said, has stopped trying of late and is essentially playing the weird camp oddball in everything post pirates. The roles of Donnie Brasco (or recently John Dillinger) & Edward Scissor hands are so disparate yet so well done that it's a massive feat of acting for the same man to pull them both off. No one else on this list could have played both so well. I really think he'll be remembered as a true great eventually. He's one of the only actors to succesfully be both a Character Actor and A Leading Man. Comedy is a great example of what an actor can and can't do. To be able to pull off both Humor and pathos instantly elevates him above someone who can only do one in my book.
Bale is an odd one for me. He seems desperate to be a Character Actor but unable to turn down the Leading Man Roles. American Psycho remains his greatest work for me. Everything else retains a fairly obvious degree of Baleness that it's impossible to not notice. He's obviously capable, but I don't think he's really that great. He's never shown any ability to be witty or particularly charming.and whatever character he plays. I can always tell it's him..
Cruise is a similarly bizarre one. When playing the lead he is essentially always Tom Cruise. I don't know whether it's my perception of him outside of Films but I never warm to him. He's dull, driven, intense, but rarely charming or interesting. He also has a very silly run. perversely, when he's let loose of this and plays a villian (Interview With a Vampire for example) he can be all these things
Clooney I think is a great actor. Again, he can do both Comedy and Drama equally well. He's better at being a leading man than a character actor though, mainly because he always embodies a certain amount of Clooneyness...however someone like Bale or Cruise, wouldn't have been able to play his character in Burn After Reading..or even Oh Brother Where Art Thou. Bale's a better Batman though
Denzel is a fantastic Actor, but only really at one or two things. He's fantastic at pathos, anger, coolness...but I've rarely seen him truly tested as an actor
Smith Now this is going to annoy some people, but I think Will Smith is a terrific actor. He's great a comedy, and has a fantastic line in pathos as well (Happyness, Seven pounds etc) There's actually one scene in I am Legend, where he's talking to a manequin to keep him sane, that I thought was genuinely affecting. He also has the same easy going charm that pitt has. His only draw back is that he's always Will Smith. He always carries himself in the same way and always radiates the same personality..You never feel he's immersed in a character thats THAT different to who he is...it's just the different sides of Will Smith
For my Money, one of the best leading actors out there at the moment is Javier Bardem. He's a great Leading man, Villian and Character Actor..The Sea Inside is a great example of him immersed in a character
I'm talking leading me here..and what makes them so good/not so good, at their particular craft
Pitt is a better actor than most give him credit for...He can be excellent if an out there role suits him (12 Monkeys, Burn After Reading) but he's tarred by the pretty boy brush because, unlike Depp, who was just as pretty but actively shyed away from it, he took the leading man roles offered. I'd disagree with Plech about Se7en as I thought he was quite good. Problem was he was up against Freeman and Spacey who have much more natural ease in front of the Camera. What Brad's good at is charm, which is an incredibly underrated quality in an Actor. Cruise, for example, doesn't have charm when he's a goody. Brad is excellent at doing things whilst he's talking (eating, gesticulating, scratching) that make his performance more natural...Something Brando virtually invented on Screen.
Depp is great actor, but as Plech said, has stopped trying of late and is essentially playing the weird camp oddball in everything post pirates. The roles of Donnie Brasco (or recently John Dillinger) & Edward Scissor hands are so disparate yet so well done that it's a massive feat of acting for the same man to pull them both off. No one else on this list could have played both so well. I really think he'll be remembered as a true great eventually. He's one of the only actors to succesfully be both a Character Actor and A Leading Man. Comedy is a great example of what an actor can and can't do. To be able to pull off both Humor and pathos instantly elevates him above someone who can only do one in my book.
Bale is an odd one for me. He seems desperate to be a Character Actor but unable to turn down the Leading Man Roles. American Psycho remains his greatest work for me. Everything else retains a fairly obvious degree of Baleness that it's impossible to not notice. He's obviously capable, but I don't think he's really that great. He's never shown any ability to be witty or particularly charming.and whatever character he plays. I can always tell it's him..
Cruise is a similarly bizarre one. When playing the lead he is essentially always Tom Cruise. I don't know whether it's my perception of him outside of Films but I never warm to him. He's dull, driven, intense, but rarely charming or interesting. He also has a very silly run. perversely, when he's let loose of this and plays a villian (Interview With a Vampire for example) he can be all these things
Clooney I think is a great actor. Again, he can do both Comedy and Drama equally well. He's better at being a leading man than a character actor though, mainly because he always embodies a certain amount of Clooneyness...however someone like Bale or Cruise, wouldn't have been able to play his character in Burn After Reading..or even Oh Brother Where Art Thou. Bale's a better Batman though
Denzel is a fantastic Actor, but only really at one or two things. He's fantastic at pathos, anger, coolness...but I've rarely seen him truly tested as an actor
Smith Now this is going to annoy some people, but I think Will Smith is a terrific actor. He's great a comedy, and has a fantastic line in pathos as well (Happyness, Seven pounds etc) There's actually one scene in I am Legend, where he's talking to a manequin to keep him sane, that I thought was genuinely affecting. He also has the same easy going charm that pitt has. His only draw back is that he's always Will Smith. He always carries himself in the same way and always radiates the same personality..You never feel he's immersed in a character thats THAT different to who he is...it's just the different sides of Will Smith
For my Money, one of the best leading actors out there at the moment is Javier Bardem. He's a great Leading man, Villian and Character Actor..The Sea Inside is a great example of him immersed in a character
Not a fan of Tom Cruise at all, but he was good in WOTW.
Forget your Hollywood actors though - you'd go a long way to beat David Jason. Does anyone see Del Boy when watching Frost?
good shout
Sam Riley who played Ian Curtis in Control was, in my opinion, astonishing for a new actor in his first role. Unfortunately we don't get to see him much these days. I heard he'll be playing in the adaptation of Brighton Rock (written by Graham Greene) soon.
haven't yet seen him but the buzz has been good about him
Pitt was also great as the pikey in Snatch. I dont rate Bale at all, he's extremly overrated.
Sean Penn is an fantastic actor, as is Di Caprio.
Sean Penn is an fantastic actor, as is Di Caprio.
Daniel Day Lewis is one of if not the best actor around today. No matter what he does he does it well, he is a complete chameleon, even if the movie is not that great he has the ability to inject something special into it. And he has not sold out or "phoned it in" in any movie I have ever seen him in.
As for De Niro regardless of his recent run, he has probably had more "top rate" performances than just about any male actor. Apart from the obvious godfather, goodfellas, casino gangster movies and raging bull etc you cant forget about
The Deer hunter
Bronx tale
Wag the dog
Once upon a time in America
Mean Streets
This is just the exceptional, there are many more that fall "just short" of exceptional. Deniro was and still is a genius, he has probably lost some of his passion in the last decade but he will always be remembered as one of the true greats.
As for De Niro regardless of his recent run, he has probably had more "top rate" performances than just about any male actor. Apart from the obvious godfather, goodfellas, casino gangster movies and raging bull etc you cant forget about
The Deer hunter
Bronx tale
Wag the dog
Once upon a time in America
Mean Streets
This is just the exceptional, there are many more that fall "just short" of exceptional. Deniro was and still is a genius, he has probably lost some of his passion in the last decade but he will always be remembered as one of the true greats.
I'm all Bale'd out as well. Him for me, more than any other at the moment.
A mate put on 'Righteous Kill' the other day and I ad to tell him to turn it off after 10 minutes. What were those guys thinking
A mate put on 'Righteous Kill' the other day and I ad to tell him to turn it off after 10 minutes. What were those guys thinking
The beauty of Will Smith is that he can adapt his own personality to any role, yet still put in a fantastic performance. That's not to say he can't change it either. Very, very talented.
Sean Penn I agree with although he always plays the same depressive type character, at least thats the impression I have in my head of him, but he does play that role well.
On the other hand Di Caprio plays the same one dimensional character but not very well, except I though he was exceptional in Gilbert grape
I get that with the Bond actors, in whatever other films they do I see not their characters but James Bond.
Eddie Murphy will always be Eddie Murphy.
Kirsten Dunst lacks any facial expression whatsoever -it's always the one: drowsy.
Kirsten Dunst lacks any facial expression whatsoever -it's always the one: drowsy.
What's with this facial expression stuff ? Did Brando or Bogart change their facial expressions all that much ? I don't understand why that is what differentiates good and bad actors for some people.