[elmo]

What was the system then today? Where were the differences? It was a 4-2-3-1 (even if Bruno certainly made more effort to participate in midfield) it was still McFred doing what they are known for, at some point we had 3 Strikers plus Rashford on and Bruno theoretically next to McTom in midfield. That is exactly what Ole did on a few occasions. We had these controlled performances under Ole as well (think of last years match against Milan for example), granted they weren't the norm but they were there.

I can't stress it enough - what kind of control is it, when you end up with with 3 shots on target and an xG of 0.62 after 88 minutes? Ask yourself, is there a chance, that we were not really more in control than back under Ole when teams knew they could give us the ball and defend deep because we aren't particularly creative?

I know, fans want to see more structure and the beginning of something new and better. And I am with you, I hope we will see it. But until now, the difference are marginal (based on the "normal" Ole performances, not the bad ones at the end). And I personally get a little worried about it.


That seems pretty hollow to be honest. I'd like to know which kind of patterns of play you recognized. Because it is just a few games into Ralfs reign, if there are patterns, I'd think, it would be a bit difficult for fans to actually recognize them. And our transitional play didn't really change, we stopped giving it to Bruno so he can try a hollywood pass all the time. But apart from that, it didn't really change.

And what is being talked doesn't really mean much. Ole talked the talk really well for many on here. Didn't help him or us. Will be the same with Ralf.

You need your eyes checked if you really think we played like this under Ole.

Players are actually putting in effort to press and chasedown players and our attacking play is no longer centred around Bruno. Fred and Scott are given more freedom to join up further upfield and to provide more passing outlets nearer to goal.

Greenwood's charging across the pitch to help defend when we were being countered shows the difference Ralf has done with the squad so far, no chance Greenwood would have done that under Ole where he basically camped in the opponents half for most of the game.

If anything, we resembled LVG's team, choking off possession for the opponents but still struggling to get goals.

 

[NK86]

A little suprised with all the good ratings and the overall feeling that we had a good match but probably my sights need new calibration. I thought, we did well in the first 30-40 minutes. We were quote controlled, didn't really create anything, but did deny the opposition very successfully. I liked the midfield setup, Bruno was quite involved, I think, that lesson has finally sunk in.

I thought we lost a little bit of control in the 2nd half, it was more long ball stuff, more blind alleys and the only goal came from a lucky break. Its 3 mighty important points but this match just resembled the Ole days way too much for my liking. Even though admittedly not the control aspect. But apart from it, it was more or less the same: little to no creativity, the longer the game went less patience with the ball, passes played in behind. Then we didn't really change the setup but just brought on more attackers (even if it turned out to be the lucky punch).

I find it worrisome, that Ralf is so reluctant to get rid of players who don't provide anything to our play. Ronaldo was tragic today and he played 90 minutes... Imagine we would had somebody like Antonio in the team, who would harass the opposition engine room, blocking players... I don't know, maybe I need a break from United, a reset of expectations. It is a bit discouraging looking at a Moyes team which seems so comfortable playing the ball on the ground in one touch moves. Undeniably, they had no punch at all today but still. I really hope, that Ralf is focussing on control first, so control can bring security and security then will provide confidence to then give us some more...


And it had little to no effect if it wasn't for a lucky break at the very end... I thought that move resembled Ole to a tee. If you have no other ideas, just add more attackers.

You keep saying there is no improvement and then also admit we are controlling games better. Doesn't make sense. We are playing through the middle a lot more than under Ole. Bruno has a starkly different role. We are playing a much higher line and our shape in defense is also much, much better.

If these aren't improvements, then what is? Yes we need to keep on improving as it's not the finished product but we are now seeing signs of where we want to go. We aren't just depending on a moment of magic all the time and are probing for an opening. Even Fred and McT are doing much better than ever compared to the last 3 years.

Your Antonio and Moyes comment must have been a joke. West Ham play a lot like the old Moyes teams. Just that they have some better players. You really need to see them more often.

 

[NK86]

That second photo that shows Cavani well onside shows him miles offside according to Alan Shearer

Maybe because Alan Shearer is thick and doesn't understand the concept of parallax error.

 

[SirMattlives]

Even at 0-0 I was thinking we were better today than I'd seen in a long time. Denying West Ham any real opportunities, moving the ball quicker, and generally being purposeful in possession. Thought to myself, even if we don't win today, if we can play like this from now on we'll give opponents a lot of trouble The late winner was icing. Love that vid of the goal celebration - Cavani celebrates like a fan!

 

[croadyman]

HUGE win and could prove to be massive win come end of the season, however only 3 shots on target out of 18 isn't good enough

 

[Kopral Jono]

You need your eyes checked if you really think we played like this under Ole.

Players are actually putting in effort to press and chasedown players and our attacking play is no longer centred around Bruno. Fred and Scott are given more freedom to join up further upfield and to provide more passing outlets nearer to goal.

Greenwood's charging across the pitch to help defend when we were being countered shows the difference Ralf has done with the squad so far, no chance Greenwood would have done that under Ole where he basically camped in the opponents half for most of the game.

If anything, we resembled LVG's team, choking off possession for the opponents but still struggling to get goals.

I agree with all of this. We did play some nice stuff under Ole, let's call a spade a spade, but last night wasn't anything like we played under him.

 

[Foxbatt]

HUGE win and could prove to be massive win come end of the season, however only 3 shots on target out of 18 isn't good enough

That's a problem Ralf identified. I think playing Martial did help in the end.

 

[PaulRich]

Putting the score line aside that performance was levels above anything we've turned out recently - still a few quality issues and I suspect our midfield is on borrowed time. I thought Martials cameo helped change the dynamic up front a little and hats off to Maguire, rightly slagged for recent levels but he was at it yesterday.

 

[suheilsworld]

Massively tricky game and coming away with a win was so so important before that break, point wise and morale wise .
Big big February month coming with PL games against Burnley , Southampton, Leeds and Watford, FA cup tie and CL tie.
We should be winning them all

 

[Andrew Richmond]

Must be me, but I didn’t see and haven’t seen any improvement on what OGS was delivering. Home game, 90 minutes of insipid uninspiring football with a winning goal in the last play of the game. Great to get the three points but seriously this team is underwhelming.

 

[Laurencio]

I think we're seeing a steady improvement from the team now. Greenwood looked sharper both offensively and defensively, Ronaldo pressed well, midfield seemed to know what patterns to look for, and we finally have some youthful zest in the squad. Elanga has increased the tempo on the left hand flank and I'm loving the impact he's had on the team. Varane kept things tidy at the back and Maguire did not make any huge mistakes. Rashford who has looked down and timid for a whole now looked well up for it and actually tried to take his man on again - even if it didn't really work out he didn't shy away from it - which was great to see. We're still not quite there in terms of spacing and movement in the final third, but it is clearly getting better game by game.

What pleased me the most about yesterday in particular was how we played in the last 14 minutes of the game. For the past, I dunno, 8 years? we've sort of slumped and booted it up there in the hopes that maybe we can get something - but yesterday we actually looked like we believed we'd win the match. We had a plan, and we executed it well. Great precise passes from the CBs up to the flanks followed by high tempo movement in midfield and disruptions in the final third. I haven't seen that from us in a very long time. It made me all nostalgic to be honest.

We still have A LOT to work on when it comes to set pieces, our midfield's need for a higher level of passing ability is still glaring and our defence needs to improve so that it can handle being put under pressure. I thought Bowen got too much of a free run through the middle of the park, Dalot wasn't quite up for that challenge, and Maguire's lack of pace gets him in trouble sometimes - but luckily we managed to deal with it before it became a huge issue.

However, this is clearly a step in the right direction in terms of playing style, player performance and mentality.

 

[tenpoless]

Win : I love Ralf, guy knows his stuffs
Lose : Ralf is clueless, I dont like Ralf, Ralf the next Van Gaal

 

[Nordmore]

Win : I love Ralf, guy knows his stuffs
Lose or draw : Ralf is clueless, I dont like Ralf, Ralf the next Van Gaal

Fixed it for you mate. Imagine the scene here if Rashford didn't score yesterday

 

[Gehrman]

Players looked like they had trained together for the 1st time.

 

[RedBanker]

Moyes showed exactly why he does not belong at a top club.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Must be me, but I didn’t see and haven’t seen any improvement on what OGS was delivering. Home game, 90 minutes of insipid uninspiring football with a winning goal in the last play of the game. Great to get the three points but seriously this team is underwhelming.

Settle for nothing less than a 6-0 drumming, prime Barcelona style eh? That’s what we want to see damnit!

 

[GueRed]

Looked liked a proper unit for a change. Against a decent team.

Maguire and the defence a standout. De Gea made his first big save in what the 89th min?

0-0 would've been a fair result, both teams cancelled each other out in the end...

but i'll take an exhilarating injury time winner any day

 

[devips]

I agree with all of this. We did play some nice stuff under Ole, let's call a spade a spade, but last night wasn't anything like we played under him.

The fan memory is so short! Recall last season's Southampton match which we won 9-0. The same energy, pace and purpose was evident then too.

The problem with Ole has been these were mostly isolated events. Hope with Ralf, we become much more consistent.

 

[rooney2009]

Nothing special happened during the game but expect that with Ronaldo upfront
We defended better but eh we won so we can’t complain
Still waiting for us to start controlling games better whilst crashing loads of chances.

 

[elmo]

The fan memory is so short! Recall last season's Southampton match which we won 9-0. The same energy, pace and purpose was evident then too.

The problem with Ole has been these were mostly isolated events. Hope with Ralf, we become much more consistent.

The fact that you needed to point to a game where we had the numbers advantage for nearly the entire game tells you how bad it was under Ole.

It's still early days, but the signs are encouraging under Ralf because he's getting more players to buy into the need for pressing and stopping us from ceding the initiative to the opponents every game.

 

[Bestietom]

Get the feck in. Rangnick’s positivity in the substitutions won it.

That really surprised me. With their midfield I thought they were going to overrun us in last few minutes but fair play to him for doing this.

 

[Deery]

If we were more clinical with the ball up front I think we would have stuffed them, lost the ball so many times in attack if was funny, but that only leads me to believe it was a good thing as can only improve and we were brilliant in every other department.

 

[mitchmouse]

That was a really difficult watch, a trend these days. Not so much the "beautiful game" as a long, hard slog through sticky mud but at least we did win and kept a clean sheet and beat a side above us at the time; a pretty good side too.

What i don't understand is how time and again we seem to be controlling a game and seconds later go totally off the boil. Something is very very wrong.

Some good performances, however, Scott looked good again, Varane's best game, and the substitutions worked, but oh boy do we need a top, top goal scorer who gets goals out of nothing (because that's pretty much what we served up for long periods...

 

[Andrew Richmond]

Settle for nothing less than a 6-0 drumming, prime Barcelona style eh? That’s what we want to see damnit!

Not at all. I didn’t expect goals. We are a poor side, it’s rather sad.

Im in Australia so doesn’t impact on me greatly, but fir the fans who have to endure our football home and away it is dire.

 

[Laurencio]

If we were more clinical with the ball up front I think we would have stuffed them, lost the ball so many times in attack if was funny, but that only leads me to believe it was a good thing as can only improve and we were brilliant in every other department.

I felt we rushed the shot. Bruno took pot-shots with Greenwod and Ronaldo clean through. Dalot took a few pot-shots instead of playing it wide to the wings, or playing a one two with Bruno. Telles had one or two as well I think. We seem to be lacking that last pass in the final third to get that great chance to score. We were one pass away from going from a good chance to a great chance - hopefully this is something they look at more closely with their reported video-analysis homework.

 

[Wheato]

I'm a season ticket holder, and I have watched us getting ripped apart by literally every team that has come to Old Trafford this season. Even against Leeds which was our best performance, they still cut us open and scored. David DeGea has been our MOM for every game, because he has had to make point blank saves to keep us alive. West Ham did not have one shot on goal, yesterday. Let that sink in.

Also, we played a full strength West Ham side, who fully deserved to be above us in the table. They had players all over the pitch who could hurt us and our in form this season. Bowen didn't get a sniff out of Telles, and Elanga tracked back to support. Cresswell didn't get over the halfway line, because Dalot and Greenwood were pinning him back. Antonio was totally dominated by Varane on the floor and Maguire in the air. He didn't have one dangerous effort or moment. Soucek, Rice and Lanzini didn't get any passing moves going, because McTominay and Fred kept intercepting and tackling them at the right moments. Another big difference was that we stopped them from playing out from the back. Our forwards pressed them in their own back 3rd, so they ended up having to go long and then we would win it back via Maguire and Varane.

People are saying that Ronaldo didn't have his best game, but he was heavily man marked. He did set the example of pressing them for the entire game, and making sure that everyone else did the same. He plays more like a captain, instructing his team mates when to hold shape and keep the ball. I think if there is one thing that we need to work on in the next few weeks, during the winter training camp, and that would be our distribution to the strikers. When you see Portugal or any team with Cristiano in it, they fire crosses into the box because he is so good in the air. We don't seem to be able to get decent service into the area that Ronaldo is at his best. We need to solve this, because Telles and Dalot are good at crossing, we just need to whip it in there quickly before the opposition have time to set themselves.

Yesterday was a massive improvement all over the pitch. We were solid and on the whole we deserved the win. Not often can you say that this season.

 

[Deery]

I'm a season ticket holder, and I have watched us getting ripped apart by literally every team that has come to Old Trafford this season. Even against Leeds which was our best performance, they still cut us open and scored. David DeGea has been our MOM for every game, because he has had to make point blank saves to keep us alive. West Ham did not have one shot on goal, yesterday. Let that sink in.

Also, we played a full strength West Ham side, who fully deserved to be above us in the table. They had players all over the pitch who could hurt us and our in form this season. Bowen didn't get a sniff out of Telles, and Elanga tracked back to support. Cresswell didn't get over the halfway line, because Dalot and Greenwood were pinning him back. Antonio was totally dominated by Varane on the floor and Maguire in the air. He didn't have one dangerous effort or moment. Soucek, Rice and Lanzini didn't get any passing moves going, because McTominay and Fred kept intercepting and tackling them at the right moments. Another big difference was that we stopped them from playing out from the back. Our forwards pressed them in their own back 3rd, so they ended up having to go long and then we would win it back via Maguire and Varane.

People are saying that Ronaldo didn't have his best game, but he was heavily man marked. He did set the example of pressing them for the entire game, and making sure that everyone else did the same. He plays more like a captain, instructing his team mates when to hold shape and keep the ball. I think if there is one thing that we need to work on in the next few weeks, during the winter training camp, and that would be our distribution to the strikers. When you see Portugal or any team with Cristiano in it, they fire crosses into the box because he is so good in the air. We don't seem to be able to get decent service into the area that Ronaldo is at his best. We need to solve this, because Telles and Dalot are good at crossing, we just need to whip it in there quickly before the opposition have time to set themselves.

Yesterday was a massive improvement all over the pitch. We were solid and on the whole we deserved the win. Not often can you say that this season.

Good analysis.

 

[arthurka]

xG is the killer of football with VAR being close second. Stop looking at stats and enjoy the bloody game. We played well, controlled most off the game but we need to be a bit better in the final third. xG can Feck off that winner was great, first time in a long time the house came down and erupted and it felt just a bit special to be honest. Tough game against a team that was above us in the table and we needed that. Rashford was great to see coming on again, Dalot and Elanga both very solid and the defense played really well. It was a hard fought and well deserved victory.

 

[VP89]

What was the system then today? Where were the differences? It was a 4-2-3-1 (even if Bruno certainly made more effort to participate in midfield) it was still McFred doing what they are known for, at some point we had 3 Strikers plus Rashford on and Bruno theoretically next to McTom in midfield. That is exactly what Ole did on a few occasions. We had these controlled performances under Ole as well (think of last years match against Milan for example), granted they weren't the norm but they were there.

I can't stress it enough - what kind of control is it, when you end up with with 3 shots on target and an xG of 0.62 after 88 minutes? Ask yourself, is there a chance, that we were not really more in control than back under Ole when teams knew they could give us the ball and defend deep because we aren't particularly creative?

I know, fans want to see more structure and the beginning of something new and better. And I am with you, I hope we will see it. But until now, the difference are marginal (based on the "normal" Ole performances, not the bad ones at the end). And I personally get a little worried about it.


That seems pretty hollow to be honest. I'd like to know which kind of patterns of play you recognized. Because it is just a few games into Ralfs reign, if there are patterns, I'd think, it would be a bit difficult for fans to actually recognize them. And our transitional play didn't really change, we stopped giving it to Bruno so he can try a hollywood pass all the time. But apart from that, it didn't really change.

And what is being talked doesn't really mean much. Ole talked the talk really well for many on here. Didn't help him or us. Will be the same with Ralf.

It was a 433 which we never played once under Ole. Control doesn't mean you have lots of shots.

I think you're just being lazy in thinking less shots = Ole ball.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Unreal celebration. The fans inside OT for it were so lucky.

Pity anybody who left early to beat the traffic.

 

[Varun1]

Moyes showed exactly why he does not belong at a top club.

While we played well, I thought West Ham played like a mid-table team more than a top 4 one. Or maybe we were just that good.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You keep saying there is no improvement and then also admit we are controlling games better. Doesn't make sense. We are playing through the middle a lot more than under Ole. Bruno has a starkly different role. We are playing a much higher line and our shape in defense is also much, much better.

If these aren't improvements, then what is? Yes we need to keep on improving as it's not the finished product but we are now seeing signs of where we want to go. We aren't just depending on a moment of magic all the time and are probing for an opening. Even Fred and McT are doing much better than ever compared to the last 3 years.

Your Antonio and Moyes comment must have been a joke. West Ham play a lot like the old Moyes teams. Just that they have some better players. You really need to see them more often.

It was a typical Moyes games away at a top team. Defend, hope to hit on the break. Get a point if they when then even better. We wanted to win, we deserved to win.

 

[RedIan]

I thought Antonio was very poor, never had a sniff and our defence handled him easily, westham fans saying he’s been off it for a while…it’s not quite happening for Ronaldo atm but he did Ok yesterday. Connect with that diving header and it would all look different.

 

[RedBanker]

The fan memory is so short! Recall last season's Southampton match which we won 9-0. The same energy, pace and purpose was evident then too.

The problem with Ole has been these were mostly isolated events. Hope with Ralf, we become much more consistent.

Against 10 men for 80 mins. Nice game to pick.

 

[thebelfastboy]

That was a really difficult watch, a trend these days. Not so much the "beautiful game" as a long, hard slog through sticky mud but at least we did win and kept a clean sheet and beat a side above us at the time; a pretty good side too.

What i don't understand is how time and again we seem to be controlling a game and seconds later go totally off the boil. Something is very very wrong.

Some good performances, however, Scott looked good again, Varane's best game, and the substitutions worked, but oh boy do we need a top, top goal scorer who gets goals out of nothing (because that's pretty much what we served up for long periods...

The only way to fix that issue is through creativity. Mcfred offer very little in the regard as neither of them have the ability to consistently, quickly see and make the killer pass.

 

[Ixion]

The fan memory is so short! Recall last season's Southampton match which we won 9-0. The same energy, pace and purpose was evident then too.

They had someone sent off in the 2nd minute and another in the 86th which we scored 3 more goals after. Bit of a weird game to champion

 

[redmanc]

Finally chasing down second balls and winning them, better defensive performance from some of the front players, less/fewer dumb goals conceed.... nope things arent improving at all under RR.....

 

[Foxbatt]

The only way to fix that issue is through creativity. Mcfred offer very little in the regard as neither of them have the ability to consistently, quickly see and make the killer pass.

This is a point I have been making. Especially Fred. Too many times he doesn't know what is happening behind him. Both when he has a player on him or when he has time. Many a times he could have controlled the ball and turned around and made a forward pass yet he passed it back or square.
The forwards especially Greenwood play as individual players. Yes he came back to defend especially in the second half.
A motivated Martial could be a very good option to bring on. Especially he has the best close control especially inside the box.
I hope Ralf uses him until he leaves.

 

[devips]

They had someone sent off in the 2nd minute and another in the 86th which we scored 3 more goals after. Bit of a weird game to champion

.
Red card explains the number of goals. It is hardly relevant for the dynamism and brilliant movement and passing the team displayed.

 

[Sultan]

Defensively we improved yesterday. Strikers are living on scraps.

Watching games live you can just see how limited our back 6 are at missing the obvious pass or even misplacing the obvious. When any decent cross comes in Ronaldo is the only forward in the area and is easily crowded out. There's just not much creativity in the team with the exception of Bruno. Hopefully, Pogba returns wanting to prove he's worth the money to his future club and go on to have a good end of the season finale.