[NK86]

So why bother watching?

Because our players have the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat and take us over the line. Did you stop watching when LVG was boring us to death, Moyes was crossing opponents to death or when Jose was on a self-sabotage mission?

You can say United is a part of life for most folks. Even if you feel that we are struggling, you still tune in with blind hope.

 

[NK86]

Oh I agree with the issues in the background and I 100% know we will revert back to the usual 4231, mcfred bullshit against Everton. My points were mainly to point out the promise I could see if we were to persist with bedding in playing the way we set up last night. It wasn't the best performance by any means but I just saw things that could work in the future. I have no trust that ole will persist with it though.

I think we were far worse than when we are with the 4-2-3-1. Ole doesn't seem to have the ability to balance our approach. Seems far too pragmatic to coach a more progressive way.

 

[NK86]

People just ignoring that the only game they’ve lost this season was against us last night? Including games against both Madrid’s and Chelsea (which they ultimately lost on a shootout, but technically it was a draw).

Ok we weren’t great last night, but they’re no mugs and set up to be difficult to beat.

They are a good team but we got pretty dominated and on another day would have been 3-0 down at half time. That was not an even contest. Also, they didn't just counter, they scythed through our entire midfield at will every time they tried and that clearly shows how little control we had during the match.

 

[Jaxa]

There is no excusing our really bad performance last night but damn,

Has anyone looked at Villareals results in the last year, this team very rarely loose, they usually win or draw, actually the amount of draws they have is mad, that was a massive result last night.

 

[LJJT]

Do you think we should let Pogba go?

I’m starting to think maybe so, certainly if he’s commanding huge wages as he can’t seem to consistently play well in a disciplined midfield role and I prefer Rashford on the left.

 

[Stevondo8]

They are a good team but we got pretty dominated and on another day would have been 3-0 down at half time. That was not an even contest. Also, they didn't just counter, they scythed through our entire midfield at will every time they tried and that clearly shows how little control we had during the match.

I don’t disagree. My point was more towards people taking a glance at the league, seeing them in 11th and thinking they therefore must be shite without any sort of context of what their results have actually been this season.

 

[Hammondo]

The midfield was shambolic with Pogba and McTominay last night, it was better vs Villa but still shit.

Midfield is a massive problem, play 2 of those is better than having McTominay by himself while Pogba was making runs in behind the defence most of the first half. We were always going to get killed on the counter with that.

Agreed. He's simply not proven himself good enough for CM.

 

[largelyworried]

I’m starting to think maybe so, certainly if he’s commanding huge wages as he can’t seem to consistently play well in a disciplined midfield role and I prefer Rashford on the left.

That's where I'm at too. A nice player to have on the bench, but that's obviously not going to keep him happy and certainly not worth the big contract he would demand to stay.

 

[Darlington Padgett]

People just ignoring that the only game they’ve lost this season was against us last night? Including games against both Madrid’s and Chelsea (which they ultimately lost on a shootout, but technically it was a draw).

Ok we weren’t great last night, but they’re no mugs and set up to be difficult to beat.

They've also won 1 game out of 10. Yet we looked clueless for most of the game.

 

[Hugh Jass]

The XG heavily favours Villareal. De Gea saved us big time.

 

[NICanRed]

So often this is the venue for the AWB haters. Nice to see how many writers are saying "If only AWB had been playing......"

 

[JJ12]

Agreed. He's simply not proven himself good enough for CM.

The problem mostly is him and Bruno both working best in ‘free’ roles. Pogba was playing off the shoulders of defenders early yesterday - I just can’t understand that tactic.

 

[Hammondo]

The problem mostly is him and Bruno both working best in ‘free’ roles. Pogba was playing off the shoulders of defenders early yesterday - I just can’t understand that tactic.

Even when he doesn't push forward, he fails completely with the CM role.

 

[Stevondo8]

They've also won 1 game out of 10. Yet we looked clueless for most of the game.

Well there’s that too. Minor miracle it didn’t end as a draw!

Im in no way defending the performance, just saying they’re not crap, which people seem to have been suggesting they are as they’re currently mid-table.

 

[littleman]

So often this is the venue for the AWB haters. Nice to see how many writers are saying "If only AWB had been playing......"

AWB hasn't been good. Tell your employer he needs to play better.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Because our players have the ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat and take us over the line. Did you stop watching when LVG was boring us to death, Moyes was crossing opponents to death or when Jose was on a self-sabotage mission?

You can say United is a part of life for most folks. Even if you feel that we are struggling, you still tune in with blind hope.

And blind faith that this time we'll be better. I will never stop watching us just because we play shite. I'd just like us to not play shite. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Shimo]

Posted once already (missed the first half) and after reading through the thread, seeing Pogba getting stick for being at fault for our midfield issues with them cutting through. Hearing Ole's interview - that was purely the fault of the tactics. Ole said we played with 2 #8s - Bruno and Pogba. Seemed to put it a bit on the players but, surely that is mostly on him and the staff.

Pogba for his defensive deficiencies, when he is tasked with a deeper role next to another CM, he doesn't just decide he is going to be all over the place in the attacking 3rd and leave his partner to fend for himself.

If Ole was going to let him loose along side Bruno to support the front 3, then the fullbacks should have been more conservative and ready to cover at the very least.

I was actually looking forward to Scott and Pogba together in double pivot role. Fred's had a poor start and thought Scott would provide that bit extra while still letting us have a good passer/dribbler from deep in Pogba.

 

[CallyRed]

 

[antohan]

And blind faith that this time we'll be better. I will never stop watching us just because we play shite. I'd just like us to not play shite. Is that too much to ask?

Some of these debates often read like it's not a site for football fans but masochists.

That includes people wanting Conte so we can have Dalot and Telles at WB.

 

[sport2793]

The problem mostly is him and Bruno both working best in ‘free’ roles. Pogba was playing off the shoulders of defenders early yesterday - I just can’t understand that tactic.

The only way that works is with FBs, or at least one FB, sitting in a 3 with the two CBs, even that didn't happen. Was a really bizarre setup.

 

[HailtotheKing]

The only way that works is with FBs, or at least one FB, sitting in a 3 with the two CBs, even that didn't happen. Was a really bizarre setup.

And with the world’s best CDM which clearly we don’t have. It just seems as though he wants as many individually brilliant players as close to goal as possible and f the balance. And the only way that doesn’t leave is wide open is to have McFred. But that won’t even work once Rashford comes back and Pogbas back in midfield. Why can’t he just instruct Pogba to stay back and keep it more simple? And let Bruno and Sancho provide more? Or instruct Bruno to come closer to mid to prevent this humongous hole between our attack and midfield.

 

[tjb]

Posted once already (missed the first half) and after reading through the thread, seeing Pogba getting stick for being at fault for our midfield issues with them cutting through. Hearing Ole's interview - that was purely the fault of the tactics. Ole said we played with 2 #8s - Bruno and Pogba. Seemed to put it a bit on the players but, surely that is mostly on him and the staff.

Pogba for his defensive deficiencies, when he is tasked with a deeper role next to another CM, he doesn't just decide he is going to be all over the place in the attacking 3rd and leave his partner to fend for himself.

If Ole was going to let him loose along side Bruno to support the front 3, then the fullbacks should have been more conservative and ready to cover at the very least.

I was actually looking forward to Scott and Pogba together in double pivot role. Fred's had a poor start and thought Scott would provide that bit extra while still letting us have a good passer/dribbler from deep in Pogba.

Ole shouldn't have listened to the fans on the 2 8's. It works for Pep because of the type of system he runs. His ability to maintain possession whilst building up slowly allows the 8's to get into dangerous positions without threatening the team's ability to defend or attack. We already struggle with the build up phase, mostly because we don't have the cm's to provide support to our defence when building up.

Ole works best with formations that would work best with formations that allow him to get the ball quickly up the pitch without having to build up too intricately or rely on movement. The 4231 works in this regard, a 4411 would also work. A 442 would also work for him, whether narrow or wide. As would a normal 433 ( with more of a target man as the 9).

 

[tjb]

And with the world’s best CDM which clearly we don’t have. It just seems as though he wants as many individually brilliant players as close to goal as possible and f the balance. And the only way that doesn’t leave is wide open is to have McFred. But that won’t even work once Rashford comes back and Pogbas back in midfield. Why can’t he just instruct Pogba to stay back and keep it more simple? And let Bruno and Sancho provide more? Or instruct Bruno to come closer to mid to prevent this humongous hole between our attack and midfield.

Problem is, we don't actually get them as close to goal as we would like. Greenwood close to goal would be destructive, Ronaldo with more chances and link up available to him would be scoring 2 goals a game. Nothing wrong with the 4231 but we really need to work on how we build up so that we can get some of these really dangerous players as close to goal as possible

 

[Sea-Cow]

Going down a rabbit hole here but I think the new social media, 10 second video generation struggle to watch full football matches these days. People nowadays are checking their phones, posting on the cafe, on whatsapp, flicking between games etc.

What you end up with is a combination of finding 90 minutes of United a bit of a chore because it isn't constant entertainment mixed with highlights of other teams that erase all the dull stuff, and the resulting opinion is that United are boring and all the other sides are brilliantly consistent and consistently brilliant every single time they take to the field.

How dare you sir. Surely this level of an unprovoked personal attack is ban worthy? Where are the mods??

On "big" matches I have to put my phone in a different room. Its embarrassing how addicted I am.

 

[Hughie77]

There is no excusing our really bad performance last night but damn,

Has anyone looked at Villareals results in the last year, this team very rarely loose, they usually win or draw, actually the amount of draws they have is mad, that was a massive result last night.

Agree, I was pissed after the 1st half it was poor, and Villarreal could have been a few up, but you are allowed to have a very good keeper! Some tend to forget that, the 2nd half show after there goal and the changes made were positive. They had 1 decent chance in the 2nd half DDG saves us again. There were alot of positives to take out of the 2nd half at least, and a lot learned from the 1st. I think UTD were the more aggressive side in looking for a winner, and like you say to get a win against this side who have a very good record is big plus. It may like I've said papered over a few cracks that remains to be seen .

 

[Longshanks]

Posted once already (missed the first half) and after reading through the thread, seeing Pogba getting stick for being at fault for our midfield issues with them cutting through. Hearing Ole's interview - that was purely the fault of the tactics. Ole said we played with 2 #8s - Bruno and Pogba. Seemed to put it a bit on the players but, surely that is mostly on him and the staff.

Pogba for his defensive deficiencies, when he is tasked with a deeper role next to another CM, he doesn't just decide he is going to be all over the place in the attacking 3rd and leave his partner to fend for himself.

If Ole was going to let him loose along side Bruno to support the front 3, then the fullbacks should have been more conservative and ready to cover at the very least.

I was actually looking forward to Scott and Pogba together in double pivot role. Fred's had a poor start and thought Scott would provide that bit extra while still letting us have a good passer/dribbler from deep in Pogba.

The full backs were more conservative, they were rarely caught out of position its just they were getting done one on one by villareals wide players everytime, in particular dalot which is where near enough every chance come from.

 

[HailtotheKing]

I’m starting to think maybe so, certainly if he’s commanding huge wages as he can’t seem to consistently play well in a disciplined midfield role and I prefer Rashford on the left.

I'm coming around to the same opinion. But I also wonder if Pogba is just doing what Ole wants. He's played games where he stays back and keeps it simple but I think Ole wants him further forward because he's another player that can pull something out of nothing. But when he does, it leaves us horribly unbalanced. And I'd also prefer Rashford on the wing or any actual winger.

 

[Houdini]

Congrats

@Berbasbullet
@BestRed
@Biggins
@Cmz'
@Houdini
@kudiak
@OT1214
@RedOldBoy
@seegoblu
@Stormsurfer21
@Suvvernmanc
@Walters_19_MuFc

yay

 

[FerociousCorgis]

for me the 2nd half wasnt even united playing better, just villareal playing worse and looking more like how we looked.

 

[sport2793]

And with the world’s best CDM which clearly we don’t have. It just seems as though he wants as many individually brilliant players as close to goal as possible and f the balance. And the only way that doesn’t leave is wide open is to have McFred. But that won’t even work once Rashford comes back and Pogbas back in midfield. Why can’t he just instruct Pogba to stay back and keep it more simple? And let Bruno and Sancho provide more? Or instruct Bruno to come closer to mid to prevent this humongous hole between our attack and midfield.

Well I think it's because had he done that, people would complain that he's being too passive. I've heard so many pundits call for the formation we saw yesterday and there was a reason Ole had not done it for so long. With that said though the team will need to learn to play that way and that starts with the coaching being on point.

 

[stevoc]

Some of these debates often read like it's not a site for football fans but masochists.

That includes people wanting Conte so we can have Dalot and Telles at WB.

Yeah that really would be cruel and unusual punishment, the very idea of that sent a shudder down my spine and brought back flashbacks of the LVG days. And some people are wishing for it. Nutcases.

 

[sport2793]

The full backs were more conservative, they were rarely caught out of position its just they were getting done one on one by villareals wide players everytime, in particular dalot which is where near enough every chance come from.

Na there was one attack early in the first half where Dalot was out of position and he was behind the play due to pushing too far forward. He got better in his positioning after that but he's such a shambolic defender it didn't matter.

Ironically the formation would have suited AWB well as he could have just been told to sit back and defend so it is bizarre that Ole decided to try it with Dalot in there. In fact, AWB would have shut down Danjuma and Villareal wouldn't have had a single good chance ironically.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The XG heavily favours Villareal. De Gea saved us big time.

We were due one after getting robbed over and over this season.

 

[steve.crowford]

Delighted with the win, I still back Ole, but it's not really a game where I can find much to praise him with as there were still some big issues last night.
The press was really bad, so Villarreal were allowed to play out of the back with ease. Essentially in football when you don't have possession, you either need to be good at pressing in attack and midfield, or if you don't do that you need to get bodies behind the ball so that you are compact and well organised around the edge of the box. I prefer the former, but we did neither, which meant Villarreal were allowed to attack with impunity.
Having 3 of your preferred back 4 missing doesn't help matters of course, but from an organisational point of view, it was actually one of the worst performances I've seen under Ole. I mean we can talk about how the full backs didn't look good in 1 on 1 moments, and that's a fair criticism, but the defence was also left highly exposed by the rest of the team on numerous occasions.
Cavani and Lingard have to be in contention to start or at least get more minutes because they bring more energy and can put the opposition under pressure which will at least help compensate for some of the balance issues we have in midfield.
Getting the balance right is tricky with this group of players. The midfield, as ever, is still a big issue. People reel off the attacking players we have at our disposal (where we are pretty stacked to be fair) and say Zidane or Conte would win major trophies with this exact squad, or they say "the squad doesn't need to be perfect to win major honours". I'm not so sure. Zidane had Casemiro and Kroos which gave RM a very nice balance. With all due respect to McFred, they're not on the same level as those 2, but they'll still get a lot of minutes because we have to balance the books somehow, so I don't really see a way out of that till at least the summer. In fact you look at that Real Madrid team, there weren't any obvious weaknesses in that starting XI, where as we still have holes that need plugging to transition from a team that looks promising in some games, flaky in others, to a team that can really stamp their authority in the majority of matches. I give Ole a little bit of grace though, because I don't think the job is finished yet.
It needs to be better than last night but what a way to end though!

 

[CR1]

Great game in the end!

My team selection for Everton:

Cavani Fernandes _________
Pogba Matic Vdb
Telles Varane Lindelof Awb
Ddg

Fernandes obviously a false 9 here. The blank spot is for either Greenwood or Sancho. Normally Greenwood is better suited for this RF positon in the 433, while Sancho is better suited for the RW position in the 4231. However, given that Greenwood has started a lot of games recently and should be rested in accordance with my overall rotation policy, while it could build Sancho's confidence and form if he starts consecutive games, I think I would go with Sancho.

So Ronaldo, Greenwood and Mctominay rotated and Shaw and Maguire are injured.

Subs:
– Ronaldo for Fernandes
– Greenwood for Sancho
– Lingard if we need a goal or more impetus
– Fred if we need more midfielders

Fernandes, Pogba and Varane next up to be rotated after this.

 

[VidaRed]

The entire villareal team inside the penalty box defending.

 

[fergieisold]

Just rewatched the extended highlights. We weren’t as bad as I thought. So many of our problems came from individual mistakes from Dalot. It was one of the worst ever performances in a United shirt for me.

 

[matt10000]

Putting a bandage on a deep knife wound. Good result, but it is a false dawn result.

Never underestimate confidence

 

[FerociousCorgis]

The entire villareal team inside the penalty box defending.

it was a corner kick. Not sure what your point is and if you are trying to say this was them from open play you are wrong.

 

[Blood Mage]

That to me suggest Ole did sort it the feck out.

He needs to sort out our pathetic displays prior to going a goal down is what I meant. It takes the opposition scoring for us to wake up in games.