[Woodzy]

Pretty much the performance I expected for the Palace game. Not quite Ole ball but not much better either. The performances will come, worries about some of these players though:

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Negatives

Really poor football
Our attack is doing nothing
Rashford destroying every attack /Bruno poor all season/Ronaldo does nothing aside from a moment of two a game

Positives
We aren't defending like clowns anymore/another clean sheet
Mctominay was pretty good and Fred was again excellent

 

[tothetop96]

Not really.

Actually yeah I've changed my mind, you have me convinced

 

[Scholsey2004]

I think that style is not sustainable for a top team. Every top team values possession and control of the game most, even Klopp who is the epitome of gegenpressing in football. We won't go far with the 8 seconds rule or whatever it is called. We need to be smart, open up play, open teams up. Of course, we need to have high tempo, but there's a difference between high tempo, short passing and gifting the ball away with sloppy passes to no-man's land

I've wondered about this myself. I'm happy to see where it goes but a lot of what we're hearing is like Klopp in workrate but like Leicester in style in that its reactive rather than dominating. Moving the ball forward quickly and directly is typically an upper midtable approach for sides who expect to get dominated. If you play such high energy football without having spells of possession for purely game management purposes then that seems almost self destructively exhauating.

 

[bugmat]

Well, that's how they're supposed to play - quick transition, direct forward passing. Finish within ten seconds, remember. They're not supposed to prioritise holding onto the ball. They're just not able to execute that style very well yet.

This is transition to Rangnick-land, people. Give it time. It's not been too shabby so far, considering the starting point, but it's not nearly there yet. We still have a lot of ground to cover before we start seeing performances as good as the good ones under Ole. There were quite a few of those, after all. But that path fizzled out and now there's a new one.

Quick transitions don't mean hollywood balls like Bruno or deadend dribbles like rashford. City do quick transitions but they do it with high percentage passes. Liverpool do quick vertical balls through excellent crossing from their fullbacks.

 

[lee82gx]

Any other team would’ve put us to bed. Dave saves again. Maguire getting turned by their #11, almost made me call a substitution there and then.

Fred is doing much better, and McT too. i agree with ralf we got lucky. so Much improvement needed.

 

[Bondi77]

i think someone should sit Ronnie, Rashford and Sancho down and get them to introduce themselves to one another....it could help!

 

[DSG]

Negatives

Really poor football
Our attack is doing nothing
Rashford destroying every attack /Bruno poor all season/Ronaldo does nothing aside from a moment of two a game

Positives
We aren't defending like clowns anymore/another clean sheet
Mctominay was pretty good and Fred was again excellent

Glass half empty:
* Rashford, Bruno, Maguire, without a spec of confidence. Just look like a shadow of their former selves
* Ronaldo suddenly forgot how to shoot
* uncertainty in developing our patterns of play

Glass half full:
* 3 points
* Clean sheet
* Sancho is slowly beginning to contribute
* De Gea in top form
* Starting to make forward passes

 

[Scholsey2004]

i think someone should sit Ronnie, Rashford and Sancho down and get them to introduce themselves to one another....it could help!

He's probably not done much with the forwards yet in fairness. He's likely started with the defensive unit.

 

[TheReligion]

No of course not. But when you try to play that kind of game and are not yet able to do so very well, that is what happens. And until they get the hang of that system, that is what will continue to happen.

So there's not really much point in bitching about that, is there. Nor to expect them to do something they will have been instructed not to do, which is to hold on to the ball.

Of course but that's the reason why it didn't work today. The forwards. That's the truth of it.

If they were doing what was expected of them properly, like Mctominay and Fred, we win pretty easily. If they play like that again Tuesday we will likely get beaten.

 

[Tallis]

On the positives -

DDG gave a genuine WC performance. He seems to becomes better if the team plays bad ?

Fred - second very good performance from him in a row.Always knew about this work rate but he seems to have stepped up a notch in terms of passing, keeping possession and linking up play. Very impressive.

I would really like to see Mason start at 9. His physicality and hold up play is definitely upgraded. He will do a better job of holding up the ball and not conceding possession in advanced areas.

Sancho - he needs to find ways to stay involved. He brings out the ball but never seems to get it back.

Rash - he was very poor in the first 60 minutes but seemed to get better in the latter parts of the match. I thought he did very well when he set up that chance for Ronaldo.

Hate to say it but I would like to see Mason play instead of R7 and DVB play instead of Bruno. Both those changes will give us a little more control.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The two no 10 and two forwards today were poor. They didn’t link together well enough, made poor decision, and gave the ball away cheaply too many times. Although, i think we will do better in brentford game.

 

[Dempsey19]

When your GK gets MOTM then you know we played terrible.

I genuinely think we should of lost the game. We were terrible from the start.

Defence was good to be fair but front 4 were shocking. Rashford was the worst of the worst, he can do the most difficult thing and then completely feck up the easy part. Its strange!

3 point is 3 points but I was hoping to be excited today, I dont think I jumped up at any stage.

 

[Galactic]

We don’t have the players to press efficiently in continuous matches yet.

It’s always going to be a long process, anyway.

 

[gajender]

Poor performance all round front four were really bad but also can't figure out some of the praise for our midfield and defence are getting either they mostly take the option of easiest pass and still play in such a laboured fashion without any conviction or belief .

 

[passtheball]

Positives:
1. De God.
2. Somewhat in contradiction to the above, the defense was solid enough. De Gea made only one worldie save. Another clean sheet.
3. McFred were decent. I have been a hard critic of McT, but he made good forward passes all game. RR is having an impact.
4. Full backs are getting forward (and were let down by the front 4).

Negatives:
1. Front 4 - shockingly bad pressing and passing, especially after having done it well in parts against CP.
2. RR not taking Rashford off. Is yet another manager going to indulge this head-down, unintelligent runner?
3. Not knowing how to keep possession and kill momentum when the other team are in the ascendency.

Happy with the 3 points, but this was for the most part Ole-ball. RR has his work cut out - but I feel some confidence that he can sort it, unlike Ole.

 

[Levi1]

I only saw the second half. Rashford was ok, don't understand all the criticism of him. Lots of running, just end product wasnt great. Was bucketing down, so don't understand the high expectations on the skill players.

 

[croadyman]

The one time De Gea had to pull that crazy save, Maguire lost the header again. How many times has it happened this season? why is he becoming shit at clearing the ball with his head? it's massive and it should be hard to miss the ball with that size!

Yeah would have been a gut wrencher if that ex scouser scored against us

 

[Adnan]

The difference between this game and the Palace game was that Norwich actually applied pressure higher up the pitch, while Palace stood off us, and allowed us to play and advance towards their goal for 80 + minutes. That meant our pressures higher up the pitch were more effective due to having the luxury of maintaining a higher defensive line even without the ball.

But credit to Norwich who came out and attempted to disrupt our offensive transitions and almost succeeded by applying off the ball pressures, which meant our offensive transitions kept breaking down and the Norwich players kept seeping through our forward and midfield lines, which in-turn meant the back line kept dropping deeper and hence we couldn't get a grip on the game.

There was some very poor performances from our players, and a few need to be dropped. But it's only two games for Rangnick, who has joined at probably the worst time when it comes to preparing the team midseason. And I'm still very optimistic that we'll see a upturn in form in the coming weeks/months, where I'm expecting to see us at the very least, show a level of compactness in a high line without the ball against the so called lesser sides, which will hopefully see us sustain attacks.

There's a reason why most Head Coaches prefer not to start midseason, and that's due to not having the preparation time to effectively implement their ideas. Erik ten Hag in his first 6 months at Ajax wasn't pulling up any trees and came under quite a bit of criticism from fans, media and pundits alike. But after that 6 month period, his ideas started to manifest on match days and the effort on the training ground was then on display to the watching public.

 

[vanrooney]

when bruno is not in form he is a problem as he constantly gives the ball away on the other hand he always tries through balls that can be top chances if executed perfectly. hard to tell what you do with him

 

[Greck]

And this is the reason why we were shit today, when the forward line cannot hold the ball then its going to be tough to control the game.

Bruno hopelessly tried all game to vertically pass to the full backs and failed more often than not, as a result of which we had no attacking outlet because as stated earlier the forwards were shit aswell.

We need a reliable midfielder like scholes or even carrick who can pass the fecking ball more than 5 yards.

The attackers including Bruno were just out there doing their own thing. The goal in any system is to work the ball. Cut the overly aggressive assist hunting and do the bloody basics. Even when we still played direct Scholes and Rooney weren't trying to create a goal on every pass. If it's not there it's not there.

 

[GueRed]

3 points. Bonus clean sheet.

Rashford, Sancho, Bruno and Ronaldo were very poor. And collectively looked out of sorts again.

If we have that many individual poor performances against Brentford on Tuesday? its gonna be painful watch.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Its easier for the defence and the midfield. The system is not that radically different for them except stop passing sideways and back and the fullbacks push up more which is only alien to WB who hasnt played. The front players are dramatically different. They seem in their heads and overthinking it instead of playing by instinct. That will come with time.

Rashford is not a striker or a RW. He played better when Greenwood came on and he went left.

 

[Bestietom]

None of our 4 forwards deserved any more than 4 out of 10.
We also need more flair in midfield.
Any other team with a decent strike force would have beaten us.
Rangnick has a big job on his hands, and will need reinforcements in January. Midfield and a Forward.

 

[Red00012]

Our biggest problem is our attacking players playing as individuals rather than for the team.

 

[christinaa]

We can't keep hoping that DDG keeps bailing us out every game.

 

[Bestietom]

Our biggest problem is our attacking players playing as individuals rather than for the team.

Yes and you would expect our forwards to score against Norwich.

 

[Ixion]

Pretty awful performance. At least its 3 points and a clean sheet. Our midfielders and defenders resorted to sideways and backwards passing very quickly but I think it's down to the movement and energy of the front 4, none of them were pressing with any intensity right from the off.

More concerned about Lindelof though to be honest. Hope that was just a funny turn.

 

[Orton]

Yes and you would expect our forwards to score against Norwich.

You would expect, but football doesn’t work like that anymore. Every game in the league is a battle these days and if the team doesn’t perform it will be a struggle, as we’ve seen countless times over the past few years when we’ve just about scraped victories. Worked in the 90s maybe in Ole era but nowadays you need a team, more than ever. It’s arrogance to say the least that we should just expect to beat these teams without the required team effort.

 

[Bestietom]

You would expect, but football doesn’t work like that anymore. Every game in the league is a battle these days and if the team doesn’t perform it will be a struggle, as we’ve seen countless times over the past few years when we’ve just about scraped victories. Worked in the 90s maybe in Ole era but nowadays you need a team, more than ever. It’s arrogance to say the least that we should just expect to beat these teams without the required team effort.

True, Our 4 forwards were useless and deserved no more than a 4 out of 10. Rashford keeps running blind, and loses the ball all the time.

 

[Orton]

True, Our 4 forwards were useless and deserved no more than a 4 out of 10. Rashford keeps running blind, and loses the ball all the time.

It’s honestly pathetic if they think just turning up will result in victory. Norwich definitely deserved something. Our youngsters need a harsh reality check unfortunately. They aren’t good enough to have these attitudes.

 

[Bondi77]

He's probably not done much with the forwards yet in fairness. He's likely started with the defensive unit.

Well he definitely did not seem impressed with the offensive side of our game today and I thought they were shite.

 

[Judas]

If we play like this against Brentford we'll get spanked again, so hopefully we got a bollocking and see an improvement.

 

[mitchmouse]

Wow - we really are not a very good team, are we? What a mess... both the XI and, as I've been saying for more than two years, the whole club.

Some truly terrible performances against a side that can't score goals and is pretty much guaranteed to be back in the Championship next season. Bruno was awful, so was Ronaldo and Rashford, if it's possible, worse. Mason looked lost when he came on too. We are desperate for Cavani (injury clearly worse than they were letting on)

On the plus side, we didn't give away a stupid goal and although it was last-ditch at times, the defence looks a bit better. Dalot and Telles are definitely better than Shaw and AWB. Maguire is the one who should drop up when Varane finally returns (how bad is that injury?).

Also, the obvious plus: DDG was magnificent. Very possibly he's best ever performance for us.

There is only one Top Four spot left open and at this rate, I 'm not sure we are going to get it...

 

[Hoof the ball]

Ok, some numbers from the game.

• Fred with a massive 33 presses; then Bruno (21), Rashford (18), McTominay (16). Ronaldo's pressing was poor (10), and Sancho's wasn't much better (13). This might be why Sancho was taken off; for even though he was good on the ball, he was nowhere near his fellow no.10 Bruno. Low pressing from Ronaldo and Sancho can in part explain the lack of intensity in the high press.
• Fred, McTominay and Telles were the leaders in tackles (4), Dalot was the leader in interceptions (5). Most blocks were McTominay (5) and Telles (4).
• The poorest defensive stats amongst the attacking half was Ronaldo (1 tackle, 0 int), Rashford (1 int. 0 tackle) and especially Sancho (0 tackle, 0 int!)
• Fred (4), Telles (3), and Sancho (3) were the highest in terms of shot-creating actions.
• The leaders in progressive passes were McTominay (7), Sancho (7), Dalot (6), Fred (6), Bruno (5). The worst was Ronaldo (1!) and Rashford (3).
• Leaders of progressive carries were Sancho (9), Maguire (9), Bruno (7), Rashford (6). Ronaldo had the least attempted progressive carries and least completed (2!)
• McTominay lead progressive pass distance (yds) (379), Dalot (309), Telles (300), Maguire (287), Fred (286). Bruno on (155), Sancho (151), Ronaldo (84), although players closer to goal tend to make shorter progressive passes in general.
• Dalot had highest percetage of long passes made (85%), followed my McTominay (83%)

 

[Hughie77]

Plus points which there wasn't many, the recovery defending has been better, set piece defending has been better, Maguire has to not leave players get a run on him either he cannot get off the floor, negative point. Varane back in we should see improvement? This was a tough game .

 

[Leftback99]

It was more of the same as what we've seen all season really. We were cut open for fun and relied on De Gea to get us the points.

 

[calodo2003]

 

[Blood Mage]

Ok, some numbers from the game.

• Fred with a massive 33 presses; then Bruno (21), Rashford (18), McTominay (16). Ronaldo's pressing was poor (10), and Sancho's wasn't much better (13). This might be why Sancho was taken off; for even though he was good on the ball, he was nowhere near his fellow no.10 Bruno. Low pressing from Ronaldo and Sancho can in part explain the lack of intensity in the high press.
• Fred, McTominay and Telles were the leaders in tackles (4), Dalot was the leader in interceptions (5). Most blocks were McTominay (5) and Telles (4).
• The poorest defensive stats amongst the attacking half was Ronaldo (1 tackle, 0 int), Rashford (1 int. 0 tackle) and especially Sancho (0 tackle, 0 int!)
• Fred (4), Telles (3), and Sancho (3) were the highest in terms of shot-creating actions.
• The leaders in progressive passes were McTominay (7), Sancho (7), Dalot (6), Fred (6), Bruno (5). The worst was Ronaldo (1!) and Rashford (3).
• Leaders of progressive carries were Sancho (9), Maguire (9), Bruno (7), Rashford (6). Ronaldo had the least attempted progressive carries and least completed (2!)
• McTominay lead progressive pass distance (yds) (379), Dalot (309), Telles (300), Maguire (287), Fred (286). Bruno on (155), Sancho (151), Ronaldo (84), although players closer to goal tend to make shorter progressive passes in general.
• Dalot had highest percetage of long passes made (85%), followed my McTominay (83%)

Yikes I thought Ronaldo was poor last night but I didn't realise just how poor. At least Fred is thriving under Ralf so far.

 

[justsomebloke]

Maybe we should slow down a bit here? Look at things in perspective? There's been so many phases now it's dizzying.

First, we have the good parts of the OGS era, which is important because it shows the peak of how this squad have proven able to perform. I'm thinking about the post-Bruno third of the 2019-20 season, and maybe the first half of our 28-game unbeaten run in the middle part of last season. This was marked by very good results and no defeats. We quite often won by blowaway scores against inferior teams, but we did not look quite the finished article in the way we played, and we frequently fell behind in games.

Second, we have the last part of last season and up to and including the West Ham game this season. Here, results were more spotty, although we mostly managed to get wins. Disconcertingly often however, results went against the run of the game, wins were usually narrow and we were looking increasingly vulnerable and dysfunctional.

Third, we have the period from the Aston Villa defeat through Ole's last game, against Watford.
We generally lost (or at best, drew), and were a complete disaster on the pitch. This was collapse - and as such also not really a measure of what to expect from this squad.

Fourth, we have Carricks interim caretaker period, two PL games.
Here we started getting the results again, and we dragged ourselves out of dark place we were in during phase 3, but this was achieved through an increased emphasis on defensive solidity and we were not by any stretch dominating games. We were, perhaps, a more defenisvely stable version of phase 2, but a long way off where we were in phase 1. We were still looking a long way off the finished article on the pitch.

Fifth and finally, we have the two games under Rangnick.
Again, the results have been there and again we're a long way off the top level we've had during the past couple of years. If Palace looked like a promising start, Norwich was regression from that. But, we are transitioning to a new manager and a new system, it's to be expected.

It's interesting to note the see-saw between defensive and offensive issues. What sparked the "Golden Bruno period" , to use that phrase, was that our offensive game suddenly clicked. Not through a change of style, but because Bruno delivered exactly what we were missing to make the style of play we already had work. But then came the disastrous start to the 20/21 season, which clearly triggered a defensive rebalancing, with the McFred midfield becoming our mainstay.

That worked very well for a while in terms of results, but I think it also increasingly started to show up the limitations of the team, and arrested the upwards trend in our offensive game. Blowaway wins became rarer, and we visibly were not dominating games, including against weaker opponents.

I think the trajectory that put us on played itself out late last season, and early this season. Results, though still pretty good, declined and we were looking more and more vulnerable on the pitch. The solution this time however was - nothing. No major adjustement was made. We just carried on.

That is, until Ronaldo arrived. It seems apparent that we then attempted to go back to a more offensive approach. Which I suppose was logical considering the additions to the squad, but which obviously backfired spectacularly. We just did not have the structure and stability in place to cope with the defensive fallout, or for that matter to implement a functioning offensive game. It all came apart.

Then with Carrick, we once more move back in a more defensive direction. Keep it tight, take it from there. Which we were able to, but we were still not really working very well offensively.

And now with Rangnick, the primary emphasis remains explicitly on the defensive side of things.

If you look at all of that together, it seems clear to me that

1. We're not currently the finished article either defensively or offensively
2. Our recent history shows that we can't sustain a successful attacking style without having a stronger structural and defensive foundation.
3. Building that foundation is going to be points A, B and C on the list of priorities.
4. Only then are we going to see the development of a more consistently dynamic offensive game. And that game is going to have to grow out of the conditions created by our defensive game and our pressing. Until then, we're going to get by on setpieces and moments of individual brilliance, save for the occasional golden evening where everything clicks.