Oh yeah, it's no slight on him at all. And I agree he did well when he came on. It's a criticism of the depth of the squad. Something which was supposed to be our strength at the start of this season, particularly in attack. Now we look very light all of a sudden.
FA L FA Cup 4th Round
Manchester United 1:1 Middlesbrough
Post-match discussion
Fri, 04 February 2022
Oh yeah, it's no slight on him at all. And I agree he did well when he came on. It's a criticism of the depth of the squad. Something which was supposed to be our strength at the start of this season, particularly in attack. Now we look very light all of a sudden.
Attacking handball was my own term. Accidental handball can only happen to the attacking team. .
"Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
Does this sound to you like something that applies to the defending or the attacking team?
Yes and I'm aware of this rule change, which is why if the ref thought it was accidental it counts.
And no the rules aren't overly complex, they've just been recently changed and they're fecking shite.
I've read it and you look really silly by leaving out the part of unnatural (and again, my own phrasing here hand/arm position).
"Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence. It is an offence if a player: • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/ arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised • scores in the opponents’ goal: · directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper · immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental Explanation • Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence. • Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation. • Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
The bloke's body wasn't necessarily in an unnatural position for a player in his exact situation. He's just super incompetent with hitting his own arm. Which should be handball but according to the rules, if it's accidental, it's not.
I didn’t watch the whole game but thought we actually played much better. We do lack quality though. Awful finishing and then their goal was ridiculous. Not much more to it than that. I’m just at the point where I shrug my shoulders now.
This squad simply doesn’t have the mentality to be successful. Can’t even put Middlesbrough away and have squandered chance after chance. The worst of it is their keeper was absolutely shite yet somehow we were only able to put one past him all night. Shambles.
Feel sorry for you. Watching the game at home I kept thinking we would get that second, it was coming, next time it will be in the net. The business with the tills was awful.
Only saw the penalties live and brief highlights but football is very predictable sometimes, poor Elanga knew he wasn’t putting his penalty away instantly.
No idea how we played throughout but surely that should be taking care of nights like that. We just seem mentality so weak.
No idea how we played throughout but surely that should be taking care of nights like that. We just seem mentality so weak.
There were lots of quick passes and breaks, was actually good to watch, however the finishing was abysmal. That Bruno miss was the best of the worst.
Due to the circumstances off-field and the complete disaster on it, this is comfortably the worst period I've felt supporting United.
'Overall we played well' but I expect us to play well with the talent and money we've spent on these individuals, especially against a average Boro side from the friggin Championship.
Sorry but minor the somewhat entertaining straight-talking element of Ralf's press conferences and interviews he's been severely underwhelming.
Ofcourse I'd like our season to get better but, lets be honest, that seems very unlikely.
Absolute disaster.
'Overall we played well' but I expect us to play well with the talent and money we've spent on these individuals, especially against a average Boro side from the friggin Championship.
Sorry but minor the somewhat entertaining straight-talking element of Ralf's press conferences and interviews he's been severely underwhelming.
Ofcourse I'd like our season to get better but, lets be honest, that seems very unlikely.
Absolute disaster.
What did Ralf do wrong? If we had taken our chances we could have had the game tied up in 45 minutes. You cannot account for your strikers making misses like they did.
Would have been nice to have Martial or VDB on the bench as options last night. Ive no idea why Martial's loan wasnt immediately called off after what happened last week.
People are now wondering if it is Ralf making these decisions or people above him. Who gave Lingard extra time off.
So it a reasonably positive performance but just one of those nights where we couldn’t finish our dinner. Hopefully Brentford is better…
Yep. Think you mean Burnley.
Ridiculous result, appalling referring, horrendous finishing.
In spite of all that it was the first time I’ve enjoyed our football for a long time, it feels like things are finally clicking into place in terms of Rangnick’s desired style. Our work rate never dropped either really which was pleasing to see.
Pogba also looked great considering how long he had been out. Didn’t produce anything spectacular but a solid performance.
Back four were solid most of the game, Maguire looks to have his confidence back and Varane is one of the most composed centre backs I’ve seen play for us in a long time.
McTominay probably the weakest link last night, didn’t feel like he really added anything. Rashford also had a quiet game.
Nice to see our players actually trying to pass to each other in the box as well.
In spite of all that it was the first time I’ve enjoyed our football for a long time, it feels like things are finally clicking into place in terms of Rangnick’s desired style. Our work rate never dropped either really which was pleasing to see.
Pogba also looked great considering how long he had been out. Didn’t produce anything spectacular but a solid performance.
Back four were solid most of the game, Maguire looks to have his confidence back and Varane is one of the most composed centre backs I’ve seen play for us in a long time.
McTominay probably the weakest link last night, didn’t feel like he really added anything. Rashford also had a quiet game.
Nice to see our players actually trying to pass to each other in the box as well.
I feel the same mate. It is not Ralfs fault though, the board had plenty of time to get Conte and he wanted to come. I also believe that the unrest amongst players is due to wage differences and a horrible culture with no standards caused by the Glazers.
Ralf has a really difficult job as he is working in a toxic environment.
We played them off the park for an hour. Pretty much. We just couldn’t hit the target. We have so few frontmen in form, even before the Jan window, it’s hardly a surprise.
Any other year we would have been 5 up at half time.
We played really well. Quick, one touch, great movement, loads of chances created. Just couldn’t put them away.
Any other year we would have been 5 up at half time.
We played really well. Quick, one touch, great movement, loads of chances created. Just couldn’t put them away.
Love F.A. Cup games, having more away fans lends itself to a much better atmosphere. Maybe Fred is the one for midfield rather than McTominay. Was impressed with Pogba. Agree with Maguire, apart from one two yard pass late on here managed to put into touch. Varane is composure personified.
It's such a shockingly stupid rule, I just don't know where to begin. I hope the VAR official or Taylor did not feel right applying the law there.Attacking handball was my own term. Accidental handball can only happen to the attacking team. .
"Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
Does this sound to you like something that applies to the defending or the attacking team?
Yes and I'm aware of this rule change, which is why if the ref thought it was accidental it counts.
And no the rules aren't overly complex, they've just been recently changed and they're fecking shite.
I've read it and you look really silly by leaving out the part of unnatural (and again, my own phrasing here hand/arm position).
"Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence. It is an offence if a player: • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/ arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised • scores in the opponents’ goal: · directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper · immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental Explanation • Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence. • Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation. • Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
The bloke's body wasn't necessarily in an unnatural position for a player in his exact situation. He's just super incompetent with hitting his own arm. Which should be handball but according to the rules, if it's accidental, it's not.
Accidental or not, he controls the ball with his hand and gains a massive advantage. That should be the beginning and the end of it. Common sense should have prevailed, but instead we have zombies following some convoluted and idiotic rule to the letter of the law.
You've got the oh well it's partly or wholey there fault by not scoring more goals which they should have.
Watch the game follow the whole game , look at stats up you like, it was All down to one never happen again In long time goal given when anywhere else on the pitch the ref would blow for a foul.! Boro did feck all besides a few set pieces. That was it. Bar from the idiots in VAR and on field 1 goal is enough to win you a game.
There is no rules that state you have to score more than 1, but there is an idiotic rule that can be interpreted that a useless or don't care VAR and ref can use to give a goal. That's how the tie was lost . Not through the lack of goals ..
Rules Rules that can be twisted to be correct .
Watch the game follow the whole game , look at stats up you like, it was All down to one never happen again In long time goal given when anywhere else on the pitch the ref would blow for a foul.! Boro did feck all besides a few set pieces. That was it. Bar from the idiots in VAR and on field 1 goal is enough to win you a game.
There is no rules that state you have to score more than 1, but there is an idiotic rule that can be interpreted that a useless or don't care VAR and ref can use to give a goal. That's how the tie was lost . Not through the lack of goals ..
Rules Rules that can be twisted to be correct .
I remember Ralf taking Ronaldo off when he needed a goal against Brentford. We needed one last night. Should’ve been hauled off. Re-jig to get elanga on earlier. I like Ralf but felt he has to bench Ronaldo. Whether he’s allowed to is a different matter. The second Ronaldo missed that penalty I knew we we’re screwed. Honestly can’t wait for him to leave. On the other hand I thought Pogba was superb. Just seemed silky smooth in the midfield. Felt he deserved more than an OK from Ralf.
cheers
cheers
This, plus the introduction of "multiball" would make the games more interesting!
Aye you’re exactly right. Although in truth I expect another frustrating evening.
I'd rather be playing Brentford.
Oh I’d just like to add that it was refreshing to see us dominate a far worse team rather than make them look like prime Barcelona for 90 minutes
Encouraged by the 1st half performance, we looked sharp, everyone was on it. The bald one.....well he needs educated.
Only this team can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!
The controversy over the handball is irrelevant as we should have been 5-0 up at the time
Ronaldo is slowly ruining his legacy
No trophies again this season and it's only February............
The controversy over the handball is irrelevant as we should have been 5-0 up at the time
Ronaldo is slowly ruining his legacy
No trophies again this season and it's only February............
If Taylor had disallowed that goal, don't think VAR would have got involved. The Middlesbrough bench were surprised it was allowed.
Ah, that's where we're getting confused.
I don't like it, but it wasn't a deliberate handball. I wouldn't call it a natural position as such, but his arms were outstretched as he controlled the ball for balance. He certainly didn't knock the ball on to his arm deliberately and the touch was initiated from his arms returning to their normal position.
It's a crazy exploitation of the handball rules, but the officials interupted it correctly how ever unfair it is.
End of the day, we should have put 4/5 past Derby at this point.
When did this rule change take place, pretty sure earlier in the season there was an incident where the ball hit the oppo player then hit Mason Greenwood's arm in the area, but was given as a free kick, can't remember if it was a league game, anyone recall it?Attacking handball was my own term. Accidental handball can only happen to the attacking team. .
"Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
Does this sound to you like something that applies to the defending or the attacking team?
Yes and I'm aware of this rule change, which is why if the ref thought it was accidental it counts.
And no the rules aren't overly complex, they've just been recently changed and they're fecking shite.
I've read it and you look really silly by leaving out the part of unnatural (and again, my own phrasing here hand/arm position).
"Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence. It is an offence if a player: • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/ arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised • scores in the opponents’ goal: · directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper · immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental Explanation • Not every contact between the hand/arm and the ball is a handball offence. • Referees must judge the ‘validity’ of the hand/arm’s position in relation to what the player is doing in that particular situation. • Accidental handball by a team-mate before a goal is scored and accidental handball creating a goal-scoring opportunity have been removed as offences."
The bloke's body wasn't necessarily in an unnatural position for a player in his exact situation. He's just super incompetent with hitting his own arm. Which should be handball but according to the rules, if it's accidental, it's not.
Edit:
It was against Chelsea, hit Hudson odoi, the bounced off top of Greenwood arm, and possibly last year? OLE was incharge.
Last edited:
I don't feel as deflated as some. Obviously a shame to be out but thought we played pretty well first half. If we'd taken our chances we would have won comfortably. Not good but at least we're creating.
Yes, dumb rule, but can't fault this specific ref and VAR for following it. A bunch of refs got into a room last season and decided this is how it should be, with them going through similar scenarios as the one last night. They're the ones to blame.
Play should just end if there was a handball in the lead up to the goal, even if it's a little further back. Some people felt that was unfair (hence the current rules), but I think not touching the ball with your hand/arm for the attacking team, even if "accidental" is part of being a competent footballer and competence should be rewarded in a sport.
We completely dominated the game. Created loads of easy chances and on another day we could have been 3/4 up at halftime. Henderson really had only one shot to save all game.
It was just an unfortunate and frustrating night. Happens on some occasions.
It was just an unfortunate and frustrating night. Happens on some occasions.
As I said if Taylor had disallowed it nobody would have batted an eyelid. If his arms had been down then some might have queried it. The fact they were out the game would have just carried on. VAR likely would not have said anything.
Yes, nobody would have batted an eyelid because to normal people that would have been "justice", not because the rules weren't being followed.
The only way Taylor could have disallowed it is if he deemed it purposeful handball, he can't just magically drop the rules.
All I'm saying is don't be a cnut and give the ref shit for doing his fecking job. Blame all the morons that decided on this.
Played well
I only got frustrated towards the end when some of our players started slowing it down
Poor finishing
this time last year we knocked out liverpool but ultimately failed in the cup too hope we at least get a reaction in the next few weeks
I only got frustrated towards the end when some of our players started slowing it down
Poor finishing
this time last year we knocked out liverpool but ultimately failed in the cup too hope we at least get a reaction in the next few weeks
I think Lineker has advocated this for ages ie if the ball makes contact with the hand or arm it's automatically handball.
Problem with that though is attackers will then deliberately kick the ball onto a defender's hand/arm in the box in order to get an easy penalty.
Then surely common sense should prevail. Last night was not common sense.
This is the thing all the smug people insisting the law says it's not a handball are missing.
He's waving his hand in the air, the classic unnatural position and it hits it.
First view, very obvious, should have been an immediate blow up as per anywhere else on the pitch.
Probably the same people who keep giving Cavani all these breaks.
Ridiculous decision for their goal but the game should have been won by that point. Middlesbrough could have had no complaints if we'd scored 6 or 7.
ITV should be giving out compensation for having an extra 30 minutes of listening to Sam Matterface.
ITV should be giving out compensation for having an extra 30 minutes of listening to Sam Matterface.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
18%
Paul Pogba
-
15%
Raphael Varane
-
7%
Bruno Fernandes
-
5%
Scott McTominay
-
4%
Diogo Dalot
-
3%
Luke Shaw
-
2%
Phil Jones
-
2%
Dean Henderson
-
2%
Juan Mata
-
1%
Harry Maguire
-
1%
Cristiano Ronaldo
-
1%
Anthony Elanga
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 214 ratings.
Score Predictions
200,6,4
- Man Utd win
- Middlesbrough win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 32% Man Utd 2:0 Middlesbrough
- 24% Man Utd 3:0 Middlesbrough
- 9% Man Utd 3:1 Middlesbrough
- 9% Man Utd 2:1 Middlesbrough
- 9% Man Utd 4:0 Middlesbrough
- 6% Man Utd 4:1 Middlesbrough
- 3% Man Utd 1:0 Middlesbrough
- 2% Man Utd 5:0 Middlesbrough
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Middlesbrough
- 1% Man Utd 1:1 Middlesbrough
- 1% Man Utd 3:2 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 0:2 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 0:5 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 5:2 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 5:5 Middlesbrough
- 0% Man Utd 1:2 Middlesbrough
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Middlesbrough
- Possession
- 71% 29%
- Shots
- 30 6
- Shots on Target
- 9 3
- Corners
- 7 2
- Fouls
- 14 12
Referee
Anthony Taylor
Man Utd Lineup
-
-
-
replaced by Phil Jones
-
-
-
replaced by Fred
-
-
-
-
replaced by Anthony Elanga
-
replaced by Juan Mata
