Poor strategic negotiation... Tuanzebe

HailtotheKing said:
No you go higher up front and offer them a discount if the player plays over 10 games. This giving them an incentive to play them but still getting the money you want. Rather than giving by a lower up front and saying if they play 20 games you give us more money.
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I really don't think any of that comes into a manager's thinking.

The club agree the financials and the manager picks his best team. Any manager at a decent-sized club getting told he can't play someone over a 200k installment should walk.
 
HailtotheKing said:
I get what everyone is saying but isn’t the posters main point about the structure of the deal? You want the guy to gain experience, so better to have it structured where you give them a discount if he plays 10 games rather than make them pay 200k if he does? I guess the question is would Napoli be willing to pay the extra 200k up front? But that seems very little. I think the OP raises a good point. We should be structuring our deals to encourage the club to play the loan players more.
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Someone gets it!

If you look at most of our loans over the last 10 years they have mostly had poor outcomes with limited play.

We really need loaning clubs to either play the players or compensate us for wasting precious development time. Better to go to league 1 and play every week than go to a Championship or European team and get just one or two games as a whole season passes by.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Players like Tuanzebe should be sold while you can get decent price, not loaned. Our refusal to sell average academy players is just stupid.
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This

Chelsea made hundreds of millions selling average academy players
 
Dante said:
This is somehow all Ole's fault.
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Im not saying it is Ole fault but i remember in his first full season, he started using Axel, then he came on in 90th min against eveton, gave away a freekick about 60 yards out in which the scored and equalised. Axel was never really seen again after that. I would say, for me, that was the moment his career went in freefall, shattered confidence.

By some miracle, last season, he started against PSG in the champions league, had Mbappe in his all game. He was never really seen again after.

I'd say rather than it being Ole fault, i think he showed a lack of trust in him. There may be a reason for it, we will never know until Axel brings a book out.
 
MrBest said:
Im not saying it is Ole fault but i remember in his first full season, he started using Axel, then he came on in 90th min against eveton, gave away a freekick about 60 yards out in which the scored and equalised. Axel was never really seen again after that. I would say, for me, that was the moment his career went in freefall, shattered confidence.

By some miracle, last season, he started against PSG in the champions league, had Mbappe in his all game. He was never really seen again after.

I'd say rather than it being Ole fault, i think he showed a lack of trust in him. There may be a reason for it, we will never know until Axel brings a book out.
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I know Tuanzebe had a serious injury in that time before the PSG game but that PSG game showed what he CAN do but his reward for that game was to be dropped in favour of the Lindelof/Maguire partnership that Ole refused to go against as first choice despite the world seeing that they brought out the worst in each other when played together.

With Bailly and Jones permanently injured and Tuanzebe finally showing he can stay fit it was a perfect time to cement him in the first team and learn from Varane but Ole never trusted Tuanzebe unless having no alternative so Bailly and Jones were seen as ahead of Tuanzebe, he has all the attributes to be a good squad player but never been given a run in the squad to get experience.
 
UnitedFire said:
It's rare you get decent detail on deals, but if the following is to be believed it's a little disappointing:

Tuanzebe heading for Napoli
Sky Italia transfer guru Gianluca di Marzio tells Sky Sports News:

"Axel Tuanzebe will move on loan, without options or obligations, and come back from Aston Villa and go to Napoli.

"It's €600,000 for the loan, €400,000 if Napoli reach the Champions League and another €200,000 if he plays 10 matches. He will arrive in the coming days."


Best case we get c. £1m for 6 months so call that an equivalent of c. £12m for a 6 year contract and sale. This is a piss poor price for a player with decent Prem experience and potential. Fine they aren't buying so the price might not be a fair comparison, but it's still low.

Worse than this though is the way we are agreeing contracts. The cap of 10 matches may be a fairly low nominal, but for a half a season could easily be a disincentive to use Tuanzebe and instead have him as backup.

We should be writing these contracts as €1m for the loan, but €200k discount if playing at least 10 matches or other equivalently agreed prices. The principle here should be to encourage use of the player to maximise our development opportunity and value.

Of course further provisions can be built in regarding player availability e.g. A discount if the player isn't available for 10 games minimum due to injury or other approved and agreed abscences.

This to me just stinks of another typical example of the commercial side of Man Utd not getting football and the best long term interests.

Of course this could all just be unfound speculation, but the quotes and detail seem pretty firm.

Sounds like they need to employ someone like myself who actually gets football as well as commercial contracts.

It's no wonder so few of our players actually have effective loans. We are mugs.
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I said it before and I'll say it again.

The club is run as though it is laundering money.

It's mental how much money they throw at ridiculous contracts and other situations.

It's the only logical reason, because no one is that inept at running an legit billion dollar business.
 
I would struggle to find a worse ‘elite’ club at selling players. Our bottom line is horrendous compared to what it should be if we had somebody in the club with some strategic business foresight. Man City just sold Ferran Torres (who?) for £55 million. Let that sink in. This is just another example incoming.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I would struggle to find a worse ‘elite’ club at selling players. Our bottom line is horrendous compared to what it should be if we had somebody in the club with some strategic business foresight. Man City just sold Ferran Torres (who?) for £55 million. Let that sink in. This is just another example incoming.
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How much did Chelsea sell their CB to AC Milan? Considering how skint Italian clubs are.
 
Taunzebe is never going to make it at this club. At this point the loans are just putting him in the shop window.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I would struggle to find a worse ‘elite’ club at selling players. Our bottom line is horrendous compared to what it should be if we had somebody in the club with some strategic business foresight. Man City just sold Ferran Torres (who?) for £55 million. Let that sink in. This is just another example incoming.
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To be honest I was surprised they sold him. Yes good business in terms of profit, but he looks a real potential star. £55m for a talented winger with lots of experience at 21 for top league clubs is not bad.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him accelerate on in Spain for Barca.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I would struggle to find a worse ‘elite’ club at selling players. Our bottom line is horrendous compared to what it should be if we had somebody in the club with some strategic business foresight. Man City just sold Ferran Torres (who?) for £55 million. Let that sink in. This is just another example incoming.
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I do not know about you but whenever I read about a City transfer in the media I never believe the numbers that they report.
 
Zlatattack said:
Taunzebe is never going to make it at this club. At this point the loans are just putting him in the shop window.
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You would think we would have realised that before we hand out contracts...with regard to Tuanzebe or Williams (60k per week) or indeed Amad (30k per week)who we don’t play and are about to loan out...Or fuking Jesse and Mata who are paid around 80 and 130k respectively per week to not play. Really odd club.
 
Whoever thinks the Tuanzebe deal is a bad one needs to give their head a wobble. He's nowhere near good enough for United.
 
captaincantona said:
You would think we would have realised that before we hand out contracts...with regard to Tuanzebe or Williams (60k per week) or indeed Amad (30k per week)who we don’t play and are about to loan out...Or fuking Jesse and Mata who are paid around 80 and 130k respectively per week to not play. Really odd club.
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I think with some players it's worth giving them a shot to see if their late bloomers. Brandon Williams is 21, although 60K a week sounds ludicrous. Amad shouldn't be on that list, he's a prospect.

Taunzebe, Andreas Periera, are perfect examples of players who need to be moved on.

TBH the list is like half our squad, we are terrible at moving players on...
 
Acole9 said:
Whoever thinks the Tuanzebe deal is a bad one needs to give their head a wobble. He's nowhere near good enough for United.
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I don't agree with that, his performance against PSG shows he's good enough. He has had 1 bad game for us, bare in mind he's only been used as a fringe player, and suddenly the knives are out.
 
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