Pogba

[Amar__]

Literally lost control of the game after he came off yet he's still getting heat

You do realise we've conceeded two goals before replacing him?

Not blaming him, just stating it that we lost control ever since the half started.

Check my posts, I criticise our players in abundance. The witch-hunt you seem to be on is ridiculous.

He played well, has been injured so was substituted. There are other players that could be drawing your ire but no, Pogba. It’s a rather strange tact.

We were 2-0 up at half time and his thread was literally the only one that was bumped, and it was posters saying he is world class. Afzer one half against Leeds. And you seem to think it's me who bumped it to criticise him.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I wonder does he start in the CL.

Pogba McT Fred

Bruno Ronaldo Sancho

Fits them all in.

Personally I'd play Pogba wide left and Sancho wide right. Starting both Bruno and Pogba in midfield would be a mistake. We could do it today for a while at least due to how Leeds play but Atletico will be a different proposition. There's no player really staking a claim to play alongside Sancho in the wide attacking positions so you can get Pogba in the side that way.

 

[TsuWave]

Special player

 

[villain]

Yeah some puzzling posts here. He was heads and shoulders above anybody else and the incessant need to blame Pogba for everything is a little bizzare, especially so after today's performance.

He's played fantastically today, some of the skills were dazzling, and as a United fan I don't see why you wouldn't celebrate & enjoy a player who puts on such a display.

You do realise we've conceeded two goals before replacing him?

Not blaming him, just stating it that we lost control ever since the hakf started.

We also conceded two goals with Bruno & Sancho on the pitch too, is it also their fault that we lost control? No, i'm guessing.

Pogba played no part in the goals we conceded, the first was a freak goal and wouldn't be surprised if the wind of the storm played a part, the second was a culmination of AWB's poor pass, and our general sluggishness in the 2nd half.
If you want to argue why we aren't able to dictate games in the middle, then I'd agree with you - I've been saying we've needed a DM for about 6/7 years now, but still not Pogba's fault in isolation.

 

[UnitedFire]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

 

[Amar__]

We also conceded two goals with Bruno & Sancho on the pitch too, is it also their fault that we lost control? No, i'm guessing.

Pogba played no part in the goals we conceded, the first was a freak goal and wouldn't be surprised if the wind of the storm played a part, the second was a culmination of AWB's poor pass, and our general sluggishness in the 2nd half.
If you want to argue why we aren't able to dictate games in the middle, then I'd agree with you - I've been saying we've needed a DM for about 6/7 years now, but still not Pogba's fault in isolation.

You do realise I never said it's Pogba's fault alone that we lost control? Why do you keep repeating it that I said it or blamed him entirely for it?

And no, Bruno and Sancho play completely different position to Pogba and score and assist far more than him too to be compared. Pogba is our central midfielder, so I have no idea why would you compare him to Bruno and especially Sancho when it comes to controlling the game.

 

[cyberman]

Dont think we ever lost control today? Leeds we’re struggling over the pitch bar a freak goal that led to 24 seconds of madness

 

[Amar__]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

Yep, also lowest in the team by number of passes at that point when he was replaced, which is ridiculuous for a central midfielder.

 

[villain]

You do realise I never said it's Pogba's fault alone that we lost control.

And no, Bruno and Sancho play completely different position to Pogba and score and assist far more than him too to be compared. Pogba is our central midfielder, so I have no idea why would you compare him to Bruno and especially Sancho when it comes to controlling the game.

The point is trying to to blame Pogba for something that actually isn't his fault - he was our only player who played well at the start of the second half.
And again, it wasn't our midfield play that led to Leeds scoring, it was actually our right hand side, Lingard was invisible and AWB was average for the first 60mins or so.

 

[Dec9003]

Really good again today.

 

[antk]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

How tf can he have a headed clearance and no clearance in the same stat sheet? Same as no free kick won and fouled once?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

We were 2-0 up at half time and his thread was literally the only one that was bumped, and it was posters saying he is world class. Afzer one half against Leeds. And you seem to think it's me who bumped it to criticise him.

After today’s game/1st half a person feeling the need to ground the chat around Pogba is a tad bizarre. The issue with posters like yourself is you talking as if Pogba operates in a silo, you cherry picked a stat that didn’t favour him & felt the need to tell us all in spite of the evidence on the pitch he’d had a good half. He doesn’t take the field by himself, he underperforms at times but that’s not what you’ve come here to say, you’ve come to pedal a narrative that simply isn’t true.

Because it is Pogba, he does something good and it will be mentioned as 'its just once he does something good' or 'its just one half he played well'. When he doesnt play well or makes a mistake it will be 'he makes mistakes all the time' or 'he was shit the second half'.

Pogba will never be do anything right in the eyes of some fans. They made up their mind long ago and changing their opinion would be admitting that they were wrong. People dont like to do that. If he leaves he will be a star where he goes, he will be a joy to watch and we will still be watching McT trying to pass to a teammate.

This./

It’ll be funny next season when he’s gone & people are forced to address McFred on a weekly basis. There’s literally no give in some posters as they’ve entrenched themselves in a Pogba = bad agenda that appears to only impact him at United. He’ll go & be world class elsewhere, but it’ll be because ‘he never wanted to be here’ or some other ridiculous point they’ll conjure up.

 

[crossy1686]

He was good today but it's like he only has two ways of playing. One is giving the ball too quickly when the forward line aren't ready for it, the other is holding on to the ball for too long until he's forced to do something special or lose the ball. I'd like to more footballing smarts from him overall.

 

[MackRobinson]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

The chance he created was clear cut and his individual brilliance created the corner that led to the goal. Less to do with the eye test and more about putting his stats in context.

 

[Holocene]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

I can't think of another player that gets their performances dissected into segments.

The lengths people go to discredit him is mind boggling.

 

[Amar__]

The point is trying to to blame Pogba for something that actually isn't his fault - he was our only player who played well at the start of the second half.
And again, it wasn't our midfield play that led to Leeds scoring, it was actually our right hand side, Lingard was invisible and AWB was average for the first 60mins or so.

Well you must have a weird agenda against him because people are praising him today.

How exactly did he play well if he made total of around 12 correct passes today in over 60minutes? Can you explain me that please?

 

[MackRobinson]

I can't think of another player that gets their performances dissected into segments.

The lengths people go to discredit him is mind boggling.

It’s the most lazy analysis. Convinced some didn’t watch the first half.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

Eye test moments? I prefer to watch the game than read stats. He was bloody brilliant today and only a blind person will say it was “moments” performance. He literally did nothing wrong in the whole game.

 

[macheda14]

I can't think of another player that gets their performances dissected into segments.

The lengths people go to discredit him is mind boggling.

I think it’s fair to do that here, not in terms of discrediting him but rationalising the sub. He was fantastic in the first half but as soon as Leeds started pressing and playing with energy in the beginning of the second half we needed Fred to give us more defensive solidity in the middle.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He was good today but it's like he only has two ways of playing. One is giving the ball too quickly when the forward line aren't ready for it, the other is holding on to the ball for too long until he's forced to do something special or lose the ball. I'd like to more footballing smarts from him overall.

On that analysis he is no less ‘football smart’ that Fred or McTominay who both struggle to pass at any pace. Quite a weird critique when his teammates in the same position are worse in both cases. He played well, he’ll play badly again soon, no need to caveat your dammed praise you’ll have something to jump on him for soon enough.

 

[UnitedFire]

How tf can he have a headed clearance and no clearance in the same stat sheet? Same as no free kick won and fouled once?

Good points

I can see headed clearance might be different to clearances if that is seen as any other clearance.

I wonder if the foul was played on.

Either way these are definitely on the Man Utd app. So no error on my part!

 

[MackRobinson]

I think it’s fair to do that here, not in terms of discrediting him but rationalising the sub. He was fantastic in the first half but as soon as Leeds started pressing and playing with energy in the beginning of the second half we needed Fred to give us more defensive solidity in the middle.

But that really didn’t happen. Leeds were dominating possession even more and walking through the midfield with ease. Wasn’t until Ronaldo came that control was restored

 

[crossy1686]

On that analysis he is no less ‘football smart’ that Fred or McTominay who both struggle to pass at any pace. Quite a weird critique when his teammates in the same position are worse in both cases. He played well, he’ll play badly again soon, no need to caveat your dammed praise you’ll have something to jump on him for soon enough.

No, they're both not good enough to be starting for United consistently, so it's not even fair to compare them to Pogba's level and what he can do. And I never said "in comparison to McTomminay or Fred" in anything I said so I don't know why you're bringing them into the conversation. I'm merely discussing Pogba and what he does during a match.

 

[villain]

Well you must have a weird agenda against him because people are praising him today.

How exactly did he play well if he made total of around 12 correct passes today in over 60minutes? Can you explain me that please?

I said you have an agenda because after the end of the first half when we were 2-0 up and Pogba was arguably the best player of the half, your first comment was
"Here we go again. One good half against Leeds is all that's needed." as if it bothers you that he was (rightfully) being praised - that's called an agenda.

AWB grew into the game and was okay overall, had some good moments but again I'd put him at fault for the second goal, but also probably rusty too - people praising him for his performance whereas i'm more critical (while still complimenting him) isn't an agenda.
And ironically if you look through my post history, you'll see that i've praised AWB more often even when he was getting criticised by most, I bet if I look through your post history, it wouldn't be full of praise for Pogba on the other hand.

If you can watch that match and think Pogba didn't play well, then there's nothing more to be said, I don't need to waste my time.

 

[UnitedFire]

I can't think of another player that gets their performances dissected into segments.

The lengths people go to discredit him is mind boggling.

I have no interest in discrediting. That's why I have tried to segment.

I genuinely saw brilliant moments and some great stats in first half, but useful to take a balanced review.

I've never been entirely convinced by Pogba. His best season he was world class in probably 25% of the games and obtained great goal/assist stats, but rest of the games I still remember him being poor/ average.

 

[Witchking]

Brilliant game. Head and shoulders above everyone in the passing department.

 

[laughtersassassin]

He has to start midweek. Been our best player since he returned

 

[laughtersassassin]

Pogba interesting stats. Taken from Man Utd apps... Which sadly misses the dribbling stats
Bad
70% pass completion... Not great
0/0 tackles
0 aerial duels
0 interceptions
0 clearances
11 possesion lost
0 assists or secondary assists
0 free kicks won

Ok
1 big chance created
2 chances created
2 fouls
1 fouled (and in attacking area)
2 shots, 1 on target
2 touches on opposition box
6 forward passes (can't see completion stats of these)
1 headed clearance

Good
4/5 final 3rd passes complete
3 possession won

I think this game says it all in one for me. Capable of moments, but overall not enough in terms of helping to control or dominate a game.

It's easy to get excited by his eye test moments. The best of which could/ should have resulted in an assist, but outside of that there actually wasn't much to be thrilled about.

Yeah this isn't it at all.

Despite scoring 2 when he went off we had more control with him and well he only conceeded two due to freak incidents that he wasn't involved in.

Was man of the match as long as he was on.

 

[PSV]

Would be a decent game if he'd been a winger. He isn't. It's yet another game where McTominay is mostly left to his own in the mid.

 

[MackRobinson]

Would be a decent game if he'd been a winger. He isn't. It's yet another game where McTominay is mostly left to his own in the mid.

You didn’t watch the match

 

[macheda14]

But that really didn’t happen. Leeds were dominating possession even more and walking through the midfield with ease. Wasn’t until Ronaldo came that control was restored

Yes, we didn’t regain control, but he offered little defensively I mean in terms of defensive output the stats do speak for themselves there. Ralf, is going to sub a player before completely changing the system.

 

[Amar__]

If you can watch that match and think Pogba didn't play well, then there's nothing more to be said, I don't need to waste my time.

As poster above said, if I look this game as him being a winger or for his attacking contribution then it's a great game. However as a midfielder that was far from great performance, there's more to midfield than just dribbling around the pitch. We've lost every midfield battle in past 4 games he's been a starter, and it's quite obvious why, his passing is very inconsistent and he doesn't bring much about controlling the match or helping the defence.

 

[UnitedFire]

Check my posts, I criticise our players in abundance. The witch-hunt you seem to be on is ridiculous.

He played well, has been injured so was substituted. There are other players that could be drawing your ire but no, Pogba. It’s a rather strange tact.

There is probably another angle on Pogba, much like my stats.

Someone like Mctominay will probably fairly universally be agreed as not good enough.

Fred before becoming much better with fewer games was also deemed not good enough.

Pogba is always in question as definitely has moments that suggest he is good enough and a lot of moments doing not a lot so there is merit in doing deeper dives on his performances.

 

[Lecland07]

I think it would be best to shift Fernandes into the number 9 role against Atletico.

Pogba, McTominay and Fred in midfield. That will probably be our best chance of winning.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

I think it would be best to shift Fernandes into the number 9 role against Atletico.

Pogba, McTominay and Fred in midfield. That will probably be our best chance of winning.

Where's Ronaldo? His Champion League record is good this season.

 

[MackRobinson]

Yes, we didn’t regain control, but he offered little defensively I mean in terms of defensive output the stats do speak for themselves there. Ralf, is going to sub a player before completely changing the system.

Because he was getting further forward and needed more in the final third. Without him those first two goals aren’t scored and two goals he was on the pitch for had nothing to do with him.Weird thing to criticize him for

 

[villain]

As poster above said, if I look this game as him being a winger or for his attacking contribution then it's a great game. However as a midfielder that was far from great performance, there's more to midfield than just dribbling around the pitch. We've lost every midfield battle in past 4 games he's been a starter, and it's quite obvious why, his passing is very inconsistent and he doesn't bring much about controlling the match or helping the defence.

We don't have a good defensive midfielder, and Pogba isn't a DM himself.
I get that most people love players that show grit & determination and run around all game every game - but not every player is about that style nor should they be judged on that alone, and Pogba has never been about that style either.
Our midfield has been in shambles for the best part of a decade if not longer, even without Pogba we don't control the match and we were even worse in the months he was injured.

 

[Greck]

Wow imagine calling that performance a "moments" performance. I hate to use the term but this is the definition of "agenda". He actually orchestrated everything good when he was on. Wow someone said Mctominay was on his own. I just can't anymore. Would it kill people to wait for one of the games where this actually happens to make the point? Why force it on days like today? Like, don't even get me wrong, I wasn't as impressed by the team performance as others but Pogba was the least moments player tonight.

 

[Posh Red]

Wow imagine calling that performance a "moments" performance. I hate to use the term but this is the definition of "agenda". He actually orchestrated everything good when he was on. Wow someone said Mctominay was on his own. I just can't anymore. Would it kill people to wait for one of the games where this actually happens to make the point? Why force it on days like today?

Always the same with Pogba. And people would have you believe he isn’t judged unfairly.

 

[Lecland07]

Where's Ronaldo? His Champion League record is good this season.

He looks really poor, at the moment. Not sure his goal scoring in the Champion's League is going to continue. He did well in the group, but he was playing better in general, also. At the moment, he is pretty atrocious.