Pogba

I’d like to add that when you play a proper effective system that demands work rate as standard you don’t always need to pick your best 11 players to just figure it like Ole seemed to do. You pick the majority of your fittest players first and foremost and then work backwards. If you have 9-10 high quality players with solid instructions on what to do and genuinely working really hard for each other the result will come. The way Ole played the game we always needed the best players out there to give us a chance of scraping through. Sometimes it was great to watch but a lot of the time it was needlessly aimless.
 
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Ali Dia said:
I’d like to add that when you play a proper effective system that demands work rate as standard you don’t always need to pick your best 11 players to just figure it like Ole seemed to do. You pick the majority of your fittest players first and foremost and then work backwards. If you have 9-10 high quality players genuinely working really hard for each other the result will come. The way Ole played the game we always needed the best players out there to give us a chance of scraping through. Sometimes it was great to watch but a lot of the time it was needlessly aimless.
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Exactly. we agree on that. Ole was shortsighted and his management probably caused more tension in the team than friends.
 
Leftback99 said:
PSG

Say Raiola was looking for a £40m signing on fee (instead of a transfer fee), thats £150k a week over 5 years + £300k a wages. Someone will pay it easily.
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For someone who'll be about 29 and a half at the start of next season?

Can't see it.

He's got great talent, there's no doubt. He doesn't do it often enough (he's not alone there) to justify some huge "stay here" wages or a chunky signing on fee/still high wages.

I'd offer him £200k/week and good bonuses for certain performance criteria.

Anything else, leave. Do we have someone to replace him who's as talented.. probably not (though Bruno playing deeper perhaps takes the position Pogba would play). Do we desperately NEED to pay through the nose for an aging player who gives you 5-10 top performances per year.. no.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
For someone who'll be about 29 and a half at the start of next season?

Can't see it.

He's got great talent, there's no doubt. He doesn't do it often enough (he's not alone there) to justify some huge "stay here" wages or a chunky signing on fee/still high wages.

I'd offer him £200k/week and good bonuses for certain performance criteria.

Anything else, leave. Do we have someone to replace him who's as talented.. probably not (though Bruno playing deeper perhaps takes the position Pogba would play). Do we desperately NEED to pay through the nose for an aging player who gives you 5-10 top performances per year.. no.
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I'm happy to see him leave but I've no doubt he'll get big money elsewhere on a free transfer. Regardless of performance on the pitch he's also one of the most marketable players in the world. Even Herrera left for a rumoured £300k a week at 29.
 
The litmus test for where we're heading. Quality player that would be useful to have in the squad but not for the wage demands/contract length, stage of his career, agent, recent injury woes. A well run club takes the Pogba money and goes after a top 18-25 year old.
 
Sandikan said:
Barcelona can barely register signings they've made, I can't see them adding someone else on 400k a week.
The others, time will tell. But he won't get the same brand exposure, which seems important to these players.
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Barcelona in the summer could sign him. The issue is why they want him having that position well covered. I would be surprised if Barcelona were interested. I think he will only have an offer from Psg and maybe Juventus.
 
There’s still a top 5 midfield player in the world in there. Shame we never had a great team around him nor did he ever seem to try hard enough to be the driving force in the team.

Still convinced that he’s a world class player in a good team. Just look at him in the Euros and at the start of the season for us.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
I think RR is going to build the team around Pogba

PP will sign the new contract and wouldnt surprise me if he gets the armband aswell as the sweetener.

All my opinions, and yes I know 99% of this thread will be outraged, but I wont be one of them.
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Me neither, I don't even understand the desperation to see him leave. Is he that unlikable? Pogba may not be consistently great but his bad days are still fairly useful. I think it's absolutely mental we haven't played system football since he got here. The deeper midfielders are the ones who are naturally fecked by a lack of options because they almost always receive every pass in a crowded zone. Having no supporting movement around them is actively setting them to fail. Don't get me wrong, Pogba has underperformed because of Pogba but not Pogba alone.

Only thing I can say to people who don't like is that if RR thinks he can use him then shut the hell up, back the manager's decision at least till he fails and stop trying to force your preferences on everyone.
 
flameinthesun said:
- When they can be arsed they play good football or
- When they have a good manager they play good football or
- When they have good quality teammates they play good football or
- When in the right tactics they play good football

This whole "when a player can be arsed" talk is such stupidity. Its pretty clear if good players play with good players with good tactics they play good, nothing shocking. When pogba plays with better players he plays better. For france he plays in a stronger midfield than united has ever had in his time here. For Juve the same. When he has a quality striker up top to play with he puts up assists.

If you don't like Pogba because of personal reasons thats fine do you. But to say that any of our players can't be arsed is silly. If Pogba can't be arsed then what of Mason? Rashford? De Gea? Shaw? pretty much every player at united that has been just as inconsistent as him or worse so clearly the whole team can't be arsed...

If Pogba stays and we give him a stronger midfield to work with or we sell him and buy a stronger midfield we will be better off.

If we keep pogba and expect him to solve the midfield issue on his own or we sell him but don't reinforce the midfield with quality we will suffer.
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Excuses after excuses.
Pogba needs a good environment, Pogba needs a better manager, Pogba needs better players around him. You would think if a player was semi decent he'd manage not playing in the perfect conditions.
 
68 PL games he's missed through injuries in 5 and a bit years.

Only 8 games shy of 2 full PL campaigns.

If we give him this contract then this club is finished. He can't get a better deal anywhere else for a reason.
 
I'm REALLY stretching this and giving him the benefit of a huge doubt but considering he's played for two managers here-one an obnoxious toxic guy, the other an apparently naive coach with only counter attacking tactics- maybe a third manager might get the best of him and finally play that 4-3-3 system that we all know is best for his abilities. We know Jose and Ole loved the 4-2-3-1 formation for obvious reasons but maybe a change in manager and a change in shape can finally get the best out of Pogba and we can see that guy who practically earned Ole his job with that spell of form a few years back.

Even i'm not convinced at all by what i've just written :lol: but if he stays i just have to hope. It doesn't excuse 5-6 years of disappointment but maybe the Pogba story might end on a happy note.

Where that leaves Bruno is another topic :nervous:
 
Suv666 said:
Excuses after excuses.
Pogba needs a good environment, Pogba needs a better manager, Pogba needs better players around him. You would think if a player was semi decent he'd manage not playing in the perfect conditions.
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Excuses, excuses... clearly you didnt read what I put...

What player performs amazingly in a non functional team? You put messi in a team that doesn't suit him and he won't be the same messi, same for ronaldo and for any player.

Tell me is it excuses excuses for rashford? greenwood? bruno now? de gea? maguire? shaw? list goes on and on.

Every argument you make against pogba you can make for every united player, so I hope you keep the same energy in all the player performance threads.
 
He never showed that he deserves a new contract or never tried to silent his greedy agent, he never showed consistency or tried his best with us. Always seemed that his mind is flying somewhere. IMO RR must have talked honestly with Paul and knows exactly what’s going on in his mind.
 
Revaulx said:
Really? Custis’ comment suggests the opposite: that Pogba now wants to stay because he likes tough old Ralf.

I’m sure he won’t be the only player to prefer working in a demanding, professional setup rather than a laid back, indulgent one.

I really hope we don’t give a massive pay rise and long contract to a luxury player who’s increasingly injury-prone. But I’m really not sure that the constant digs at Pogba for being lazy and unprofessional are justified.
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I miss read the tweet as the opposite, but for the contract Pogba is reportedly being offered it doesn’t make any sense for anyone but him for him to extend.
 
crossy1686 said:
I miss read the tweet as the opposite, but for the contract Pogba is reportedly being offered it doesn’t make any sense for anyone but him for him to extend.
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Oh absolutely. Let’s hope it isn’t true.

If it is, my hopes that the club is finally moving in the right direction following nearly nine years of Ed Woodward will be severely challenged :(
 
He is a snake. There I called it.

I agree that he has been dealt a bad hand. He rejoined us hoping we will kick off from there, build a strong team, get an ambition manager and then compete for major honors every year. That hasn't happened. However, Pogba is one of the major reasons why. He rarely takes responsibility and demonstrates any leadership. He is an embellishment, something you put on to make a team better than perfect. He can never be the backbone of a team. The lad just doesn't have the mentality for it.

He only produces when he has to prove his critics wrong. He has been called out several times for his lack of maturity and professionalism and each time he has come back strongly. But that kind of motivation rarely lasts. He just doesn't have the mentality to play in a team that is trying to close the gap on the league leaders. He stinks up the place, earns a heavy wage but acts as if he owes the club nothing. His agent spews bullshit as and when he feels like.

All in all, the sooner he leaves the better because he is stinking up the whole place.
 
He's barely even trained under Ralf let alone played to have such an opinion. There will be stories already written about a fall out for the first time he is left out. Why do people still fall for this stuff?
 
Leftback99 said:
He's barely even trained under Ralf let alone played to have such an opinion. There will be stories already written about a fall out for the first time he is left out. Why do people still fall for this stuff?
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This may just be Pogba’s camp looking for a reason as to why he may extend the contract in the end. This sounds a lot better than “it’s a feck tonne of money and everyone else was offering less than half of this amount”
 
lefty_jakobz said:
I think RR is going to build the team around Pogba

PP will sign the new contract and wouldnt surprise me if he gets the armband aswell as the sweetener.

All my opinions, and yes I know 99% of this thread will be outraged, but I wont be one of them.
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Are we moving the franchise to Dubai?
 
JPRouve said:
Not really, Pogba is inconsistent with France andhe was inconsistent with Juventus. It's simply that France(since 2016) and Juventus don't expose his flaws and don't base the midfield on him.
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With France he plays quite much as a central midfielder, no?

His Juve spell is a not something to compare for me, but my point is that he is often better when the occasion is bigger. Italy = Slow league, slow teams, little pressure when on the ball compared to England, which seems to be a thing with him here. Has been pressured off the ball loads of times leading to goals and dangerous attacks. And almost all of those situations against mid to lowertable teams.

He clearly has the skills to avoid it and do a simple pass, but it often happens because he's simply not focused and mentally prepared to handle opponents pressing him. His bottom level is just quite bad. Some players, like Carrick rarely had such lows when playing bad. So his depths of inconsistency (if that's a term) is also quite also high compared to other world class players.
 
ROFLUTION said:
With France he plays quite much as a central midfielder, no?

His Juve spell is a not something to compare for me, but my point is that he is often better when the occasion is bigger. Italy = Slow league, slow teams, little pressure when on the ball compared to England, which seems to be a thing with him here. Has been pressured off the ball loads of times leading to goals and dangerous attacks. And almost all of those situations against mid to lowertable teams.

He clearly has the skills to avoid it and do a simple pass, but it often happens because he's simply not focused and mentally prepared to handle opponents pressing him. His bottom level is just quite bad. Some players, like Carrick rarely had such lows when playing bad. So his depths of inconsistency (if that's a term) is also quite also high compared to other world class players.
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Playing as central midfielder says nothing though. At United Pogba has generally been expected to be the main creator, organizer and destroyer when he is neither of these and is more of a support player, jack of all trades master of none. For France the technical leader is Griezmann and the defending leaders are Kanté and Varane with Griezmann being the one leading and organization the forwards defensively. Pogba has brainfarts for France, the same he has for United but two things mitigate them, his teammates give him instructions on the field and some of them know how to compensate for others, yet sometimes he ends up doing silly things like against Turkey where he tried to shield the ball instead of hoofing it.
 
flameinthesun said:
Excuses, excuses... clearly you didnt read what I put...

What player performs amazingly in a non functional team? You put messi in a team that doesn't suit him and he won't be the same messi, same for ronaldo and for any player.

Tell me is it excuses excuses for rashford? greenwood? bruno now? de gea? maguire? shaw? list goes on and on.

Every argument you make against pogba you can make for every united player, so I hope you keep the same energy in all the player performance threads.
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In our own team? Bruno, Ronaldo, De Gea all of them had entire campaigns were they carried the team. Though the current version of Ronaldo who is underperforming is still our top scorer.

Pogba has yet to have a single season where he puts in consistent WC performances for us for the entire 38 games. He is the more talented version of Bailly at CM. Has 4-5 amazing games. Everyone thinks he's turning a corner and turning into this amazing player. Only to be followed by 2-3 abysmal performances and then getting injured.

This is the Bailly cycle, but this is also the Pogba cycle. The sooner more fans realize this, the better for our team.
 
With all these complaints about him you'd think this team is so much better off without him, instead our football is hopeless and we're back to DDG doing everyone's job for them.
 
I am not against Pogba because of his inconsistencies. I am against Pogba staying because of his agent and his injury record. We should say goodbye to him after this season and end this failed experiment.
 
We should not resign Pogba, he has been here long enough but he have won nothing. How many games has he started? How many times was he injure? For the money he is on, he is not worth it. Get let it go, it will save us millions for younger and hungrier players.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Paul in this team would add so much creativity. I never got the hate for him. He is a modern mercenary like most players. There is just too much money in football to not be an a***** as a player. He is just an honest one.
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I couldnt give a fig how mercenary Pogba is, thats the nature of the game these days, but I do object to paying a serial under achiever exhorbitant wages simply because he is Paul Pogba. No matter how you look at it Pogba has failed to deliver, both on his then world record transfer fee and on his high wages and for 6 years we've watched as various managers tried various systems for him to play within, but none worked for long. Was that Mourinhos fault? Was it Oles fault? Will Rangnick be blamed if he too fails to get the best out of Pogba? Pogba has never shown any real desire to play for us, and even less consistency. To offer him a new contract on any amount of wages would be utter folly. We cant afford to wait another 6 years, and neither can Pogba! And no, I dont "hate" Pogba, I dont know him, but I have very little respect for him as a Manchester United player.
 
RooneyLegend said:
With all these complaints about him you'd think this team is so much better off without him, instead our football is hopeless and we're back to DDG doing everyone's job for them.
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Who would you displace in Rangnick’s current 4-3-3 setup to make room for him?

Fred’s the obvious candidate I guess, and then you’d ask Bruno to do the Fred job with Pogba roaming free … I don’t know; not seeing it.
 
hungrywing said:
Narcissistic behavior 101.
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Yeah have to agree. It could have worked out but it hasn't. He needs a team built around him and he's not good enough to justify that. And the top teams don't play that way anyhow. He won't get those wages elsewhere.
 
git_united said:
Who would you displace in Rangnick’s current 4-3-3 setup to make room for him?

Fred’s the obvious candidate I guess, and then you’d ask Bruno to do the Fred job with Pogba roaming free … I don’t know; not seeing it.
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We'll see it in the upcoming weeks I guess. Sancho hasn't exactly set the world alight and Elanga gets a lot of slack because he's from the academy - so IMO the left wing place is still wide open.

We've been burned repeatedly by trying to get Bruno + DM + Pogba in the same side, so I'm not exactly optimistic but maybe Rangnick can do better than Ole.
 
Really would not be pleased with him resigning. Sure it is "value" in the sense even a very costly wage is less than a big signing.

Another number of very expensive years talking about how we "get the best out of Pogba" while it never actually materialises. How many times do you have to see the same story until the message is received?

It would be a big, big mistake. His injuries are also a constant problem. Constant niggling injuries and this is his last big contract that will take his age to a stage where they might become even more frequent.
 
I’d like to see Pogba demonstrate some kind of commitment to the club on the pitch before we hand him a massive new contract. I realize the contract is on offer right now, but how about a show of iron balls — pull the offer back until the end of the season. If he puts in a proper shift and helps us go deep in the CL and/or secure fourth place, then we can talk contract terms.
 
glazed said:
Yeah have to agree. It could have worked out but it hasn't. He needs a team built around him and he's not good enough to justify that. And the top teams don't play that way anyhow. He won't get those wages elsewhere.
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Building a team around Pogba is actually the worst thing you can do. He's so inconsistent & unreliable that if he's in such an influential position, the team will be as inconsistent as him.

The ideal team for Pogba is where he's a complete fringe player. Where he's not one of the team's leaders, they're a top team without him and when he has a great game it's the cherry on top of an already great team. Also, when he has a terrible game it doesn't cripple his whole team.

He's not a leader, he's not reliable so you can't have him as a key player. Unfortunately United have paid him (and paid for him) as such. So they have a problem.

Time to move him on and make him someone else's problem.
 
He should move on as should we. Man started out so well, but as every damn year, he gets hurt.
 
RedCurry said:
I am not against Pogba because of his inconsistencies. I am against Pogba staying because of his agent and his injury record. We should say goodbye to him after this season and end this failed experiment.
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https://www.transfermarkt.com/paul-pogba/verletzungen/spieler/122153

Missed 84 games according to that site and still increasing everyday until he returns. Not looking good really. As a comparison Martial has 50 despite joining the club earlier than Pogba.
 
lex talionis said:
I’d like to see Pogba demonstrate some kind of commitment to the club on the pitch before we hand him a massive new contract.
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While commitment is nice and all there is a far more Basic metric he should be measured by...I’d just like to see him play like a player that is worth that type of massive contract. Seriously, what the fuk has the guy done to be even kept here let alone be given a raise?
 
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