And tell me where Howson's mindset does not apply at Bayern. Breitner, Kahn and co. would definitely tell the first bitching, moaning fanny on your team to feck off.
Players that keep chatting to the press - Not Happy Playing for United - Howson Rant
- Thread starter SAred
- Start date
And tell me where Howson's mindset does not apply at Bayern. Breitner, Kahn and co. would definitely tell the first bitching, moaning fanny on your team to feck off.
Howson makes some good points but ultimately this is about the normal player power of the contemporary league. And to be fair to the players, Manchester United has been a mess post-Sir Alex with the merry-go-round of managers and general instability.
Other clubs used to be noted for that and United was too back in the post-Sir Matt Busby days. It took over 2 decades for the giant that is United to get back to where it belonged. So to blame the unhappy players for the situation and tell them to take a hike - and not a pay hike - is simplistic.
However, the squad does need to be trimmed and leaders once more have to play a role in the dressing room but do we have them?
I still think Ronaldo could be a great asset and this man has done it all, he's a living legend. I also think the criticism of Marcus Rashford is unfair - this lad is a natural leader and got to where he is by having the mindset that he would overcome anything in his way, there are others in the squad. Maguire is also a leader.
Nobody's saying there are Roy Keanes anymore and at present his kind of leadership wouldn't be able to put things right as that approach is outdated but we do have players who are professionals and do care about where this club is going and their role in it.
Rolf R's challenge among many is to get those leaders on side while also being the boss, a real balancing act.
Other clubs used to be noted for that and United was too back in the post-Sir Matt Busby days. It took over 2 decades for the giant that is United to get back to where it belonged. So to blame the unhappy players for the situation and tell them to take a hike - and not a pay hike - is simplistic.
However, the squad does need to be trimmed and leaders once more have to play a role in the dressing room but do we have them?
I still think Ronaldo could be a great asset and this man has done it all, he's a living legend. I also think the criticism of Marcus Rashford is unfair - this lad is a natural leader and got to where he is by having the mindset that he would overcome anything in his way, there are others in the squad. Maguire is also a leader.
Nobody's saying there are Roy Keanes anymore and at present his kind of leadership wouldn't be able to put things right as that approach is outdated but we do have players who are professionals and do care about where this club is going and their role in it.
Rolf R's challenge among many is to get those leaders on side while also being the boss, a real balancing act.
Not a fan of howson, but he's not wrong here. Player power seems to be on another level at our club and someone needs to nip it in the bud. Until that happens, we just won't be successful, it's as simple as that.
I agree with him. Especially replacing the players not putting in a shift with U-23s.
Yep. We can't be selectively ruthless or the next dressing room will just end up in disarray. Player privilege and even playing time privilege is how this whole mess started in the first place. Tired of seeing underperformers make the same mistake every week. Many of them even break entire possessions on their bad days.
Everyone is looking at the Lingards and VDBs, they are easy targets when there's plenty indication the starters are also part of the chaos. The biggest dressing room factions are all starters. When Shaw leaked that the dressing room weren't together after the loss he wasn't just talking fringe players. Everyone has to be made to feel the heat and consequences of causing a distraction.
Yeah completely agree. It’s worrying when you see that other thread in Redcafe which has the video of a PR guy who actually works for Man Utd. He is doing an interview and explains how his team work with the players to maximise their brand. I understand it’s the social media era and it’s important but it just seems this is taking too much importance.
It seems loosing doesn’t matter as much as long as the brand is ok as you said. I can’t blame the players really though because that is what the club itself does right? They don’t care that we haven’t challenged for 9 years, as long as Man Utd are in the headlines and getting clicks. Who can blame the players for doing what their bosses do.
I agree, he cant defend very well and his crossing is very inconsistent. Find it strange how some are focusing on him being the answer at right back and some even I have seen mentioning him as the right forward. Has he even had a stand out game for us when he has played?
We tried to sell him and failed to basically. Personallly we should either be looking at having a look at Laird next season or investing again there. Bissake needs genuine competition as he has undoubtedly been very poor so far this season, a season to me which was a focul one in his development and future here as I am actually a fan of his, but the positioning and intelligence going forward has so far regressed rather than progressed
Fletcher has won 1 x CL, 5xEPL, 1x Fa Cup, 1x League cup. He played as a starter in same squad as carrick, ronaldo, solskjaer, ferdinand, vidic, evra and so on. If those players cant respect him then can we really sit there and say they respect the club? He was a senior player when Pogba was in the academy still...Fletcher has as much right as anyone else to stand on the touchline in my view.
That's exactly the problem, they're from the same class.
It's like ted from marketing who you used to work with and wasn't much better than you in selling suddenly becomes your mentor
Yes you can and in Fergie's case it worked.
He makes some astute points and frankly I was impressed by his intellegent use of language and nuanced points.
The part where he listed players and told them all to feck off was poetic
The part where he listed players and told them all to feck off was poetic
The more you look into it, the more it seems exaggerated. The only real Journo who is pushing this narrative daily is Chris Wheeler from the Daily Mail and at best he is tier 3. The rest are feeding off his scraps
He's definitely had some good games this season but also laughably bad ones. He's a wildly inconsistent player.
As you say we tried to sell him, he doesn't seem to want to be here and AC Milan didn't seem too fussed about signing him permanently either. There's a reason for that he's average, they probably only wanted another loan to have him as a back up.
We need him until the end of this season but for me he should be one of the first out the door in July. A nothing player taking up space and minutes an academy player could be using.
Fair enough but let's not lose sight of the fact this is a caretaker situation so there should be a brand new team in summer. Until then we should support the team we have to achieve the best possible results, with the understanding that we re undergoing a change of identity and...Rome was not built in a day. We should unite and get behind the club otherwise what are we? Supporters or critics? Im not enjoying any of this but remain hopeful that if we stick together we will be better off than if we dont.
A lot of conjecture, rumours and sheer lies floating about lets not get distracted by the haters and lets help the team pull through this tough patch.
We're United, we never die!
I despise fans like howson who always look to point the finger at those at the bottom of chain at the club which is the players, yes there are issues with our player personnel but it's a knock on effect on poor management that has trickled all the way down from the glazers.
Why is howson not highlighting the mistake this club has repeated for the 100th time again which is employing a manager that doesn't fit with the squad we have at our disposal.
It's no surprise this club is going nowhere when it just keeps repeating the same vicious cycle of freaking out by going from one extreme to another when replacing managers.
I am all for ragnick as a football consultant at the club and would prefer to see him in that role asap because as seen by the current mess we are in with on field performances, no long term strategy and many players either leaving in a free at the end for the season when we could have actually got money for them and others just wanting out because they have become disillusioned at the club which should not be happening at such a prestigious club, we need to rectify this issue asap instead of at the end of the season.
Who looked at the squad we have and thought ragnick's style would be perfect for it when it's clear it is a real mismatch which now has fans, pundits etc.. once again screaming for yet another bloody rebuild/cultural reboot, it makes me want to bang my head against the wall at the complete ineptitude of our decision makers to not once be able to recruit a manager that fits perfectly with the squad since fergie left. Absolute madness!
Why is howson not highlighting the mistake this club has repeated for the 100th time again which is employing a manager that doesn't fit with the squad we have at our disposal.
It's no surprise this club is going nowhere when it just keeps repeating the same vicious cycle of freaking out by going from one extreme to another when replacing managers.
I am all for ragnick as a football consultant at the club and would prefer to see him in that role asap because as seen by the current mess we are in with on field performances, no long term strategy and many players either leaving in a free at the end for the season when we could have actually got money for them and others just wanting out because they have become disillusioned at the club which should not be happening at such a prestigious club, we need to rectify this issue asap instead of at the end of the season.
Who looked at the squad we have and thought ragnick's style would be perfect for it when it's clear it is a real mismatch which now has fans, pundits etc.. once again screaming for yet another bloody rebuild/cultural reboot, it makes me want to bang my head against the wall at the complete ineptitude of our decision makers to not once be able to recruit a manager that fits perfectly with the squad since fergie left. Absolute madness!
Why would you hire a manager to fit the players currently at the club if the players aren't good enough to win the league or even be in a title race?
So are you saying a manager can't improve a squads results?
Couldnt agree more, playing group full of moody, entitled fannys...feck off.
Chelsea and liverpool are hardly in a title race themselves, this squad could be competing for at least 2nd place with the right manager that suits the players we have at our disposal and then over the transfer windows slowly evolve the squad instead of the current hysteria of demanding another rebuild because surprise surprise ragnick is struggling to impose his style on a squad not suited to his set up and tactics and let's not act like ragnick is as good as klopp, tuchel or pep like many deluded fans in the past tried to convince ole was by performing mental gymnastics.
I think I just read someone wrote Rashford and Maguire are leaders?!?!
Am I dreaming?
Good thing we are not in Championship with those kind of "leaders".
Am I dreaming?
Good thing we are not in Championship with those kind of "leaders".
If you ever listened to his podcasts, or him on Rio’s, he’s heavily critical of the Glazers.
He even did this. (The sticker says Love United, Hate Glazers)
Steve's a good lad.
Talks sense imo.
Talks sense imo.
I know he does but when the fans and media focus more point ing the finger at players, they are letting the glazer of lightly, all the frustration and criticism should be relentlessly focused on them being so bloody inept
Howson was spot on here. I am personally sick of the egos, when they have done what to have them. If we were controlling games, winning trophies constantly and shaming the rivals then they would have reason. seems too many of our team think being at United is enough to have an ego, and that is true but do nothing to live up to it as Woodward gave them a huge salary
Come on now. Chelsea are champions league holders and Liverpool arguably been the best side in Europe the last 2/3seasons. Loathe to say it, but two excellent sides and probably 2 of the best 5 sides in Europe. Before you say it, yes we came second last year, Livrpool were weakened by long injury lay offs to key players, Chelsea struggled having Lampard as the manger abnd the covid effect.
You say competing for "at least" second. Those three clubs are way ahead of us currently.
What I disagree with most though is "over the transfer windows slowly evolve the squad instead of the current hysteria of demanding another rebuild "...........The only manager to axe several players and buy several at once was Van Gaal. He had the right idea, sadly though he got rid of some of the wrong players and mainly bought really badly as well. What you are saying we should be doing is exactly what Ole tried to do in the transfer market and he kept talkign about a "process over time"....I said on here if he thinks thats the way ahead he is screwed as the 3 in 3 out type of windows, that process would take too long and he would fail. Its one of the resons he did.
I keep hearing pundits and ex-players talking about the high quality of our squad and its utter tosh. Forget the names on the shirts, forget the hype, forget the international performances, forget loaded stats.... look at the individual performances and attitude and consistency within a game and over a period of games...then tell me where the quality has been over the last 4/5years?
We have a squad of about 35 yes THIRTY FIVE players. DeHea has been our best player this season and he has had a couple of years of beign dreadful, Fernandes was our best player last season and he has been dreadful for probably the last coupel of months of last season and this. Not far behind him last year was Shaw who has of coruse had injuries and problems with Mourinho, but he has had long spells of people wanting him out and then before those three we have Pogba and maybe Rashford and the juries still out on them. Thats our BEST players. There are a whole host of really average ones beneath them and even poor ones that are in our starting eleven most weeks. Do you genuinley think with the right mangaer behind them this side competes for league title and champions leagues? As from that 35, I dont even see a starting eleven capable of doing so, let alone a squad.
People got over excited with us signing big names in Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. All great players but Varane was the only one really improved the quality of the first eleven. For Sancho we already have Greenwood, for Ronaldo ther eis Cavani.....yet we didnt sign a single central midfielder when not one player has shown themselves capable of being quality there over one of the four seasons on a year olet alone a season, nor a right back when our current options havent excelled.
Its NOT hysteria at all to say there are double figures worth of players should be moved out this season, its easily that number...many of which have been here throughout the time of 2,3 and even 4 managers durign there time here....and Klopp/Pep you say Ragnick is nowhere near.....well both of those managers didnt manage the group of players they had already at all. Pep bought in over 10 players, sold three and loaned out several players with the intention of selling them, some big players too like Hart. Klopp actually did similar...and both did a similar thing the next season. I would almost guarantee you if Guardiola came here for example, he would have a massive clearout, its been needed for some time now and nobody has done it. There were people congratulating Ole on here for gettign rid of the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez, said at the time that was ludicrous as there were so many other obvious need to be sold players as well. Getting rid of 2/3 when there are several doesnt solve a problem, especially the 2/3 players bought in to replace are right either....its actually standing still, not moving forwards
Well we don't want to be competing for 2nd ultimately. There are lots of sides that have finished 2nd, 3rd in the PL and never went on to win it because that was their level, this side did not just come second like Liverpool finishing a point behind City, we were miles off. We don't even know how these players would react to title deciding fixtures in April, May because they've never even got to that point and from the lack of bottle they've shown I can't see it ever happening. There's a good chunk of this squad that needs replacing before it's winning titles.
It's not the Glazers fault that players can't pass a ball five yards to another player, as much as you want it to be.
So are you saying the players attitudes should never be criticized?
Bet he never paid for a round either.
The guy is so full of himself. Once he said that he went to Carrington and young players wanted to take photos with him. He can't stop sending his youtube followers to feck off and he also tend to switch between talking how to manage United and how to manage some pub club team he owns as if its the same thing.
So either our recruitment/scouting has been abysmal or or the player have been terribly coached, either way that is on management/coaches higher up in the chain than the palyers, as I said it's a trickle down effect of from the club being poorly run from the top in regards to the football side of things. The players do not sign themselves for man united.
Who the heck is recruiting these palyers or allowing such attitude to be ok in the club, despite being a poor choice of manager, mourinho wanted the likes of martial and pogba out of the club and got pushed back, the problems we see today is because of a poorly run club.
I'm no fan of the Glazers, but apart from unrealistic ideas that they're suddenly going to put a Billion in, sort the ground and do a Chelsea mid 2000s esque buying spree way above market value, what could they have done last season?
They did their bit, sanctioning Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane, and instead of pushing us on, which many presumed it would do, it's seen us drop off an absolute cliff?
Allow enough time to pass, and this sort of opinion seems to be stated more and more often.
Some people still believe Moyes should have had more time. That's another example of revisionism.
Jose was toxic and well into his meltdown period at that time.
His treatment of Shaw was dreadful, and then funnily enough when Jose went, he had his best ever form. Currently he's been crap again, but that doesn't in any way "Prove" Jose was right with Shaw. As it doesn't necesssarily prove anything about Martial and Pogba due to what they're currently doing.
I remember he had to go into hiding for about a month after that. Really sucks that he came back and managed to rehabilitate his image. Can't stand him.
Is this now a Cafe meme writing it as pre-madonna instead of prima donna? I get it, when Madonna burst onto the dance music scene everything changed, but expecting them to be pre-Madonnas is only gonna end in tears.
That's because buying a bunch of high profile players does not guarantee success, have all three of those players come for the right reasons, do they help the balance of our team and do they fit in with how the manager wants to play? You could give Mourinho pep's barca side or the current man city side and they would not have been as dominant under him and plenty of players would have clashed with him because they don't suit his he wants to play.
Klopp did not buy players with such a high profile like ours but now they look far better than our lot because they work in harmony with klopp's idea of how he wants to play, same when potchettino was at spurs.
Didn't think of it this way, our old boys club weren't even that old, not in age but experience or qualifications. You need to be exceptionally good at your job to get your peers to follow. We just look at the exceptions and blindly emulate. His rise up the ranks could have been earned but let's get real, a career ladder that gives anyone 3 promotions in a couple months is cracked. What changes can even be assessed in only a couple months? Huge reason I want Rangnick to move upstairs is he's the only one who got an exec role with any semblance of merit.
We absolutely do have moles in the dressing room speaking to the press constantly and leaking lineups and locker room turmoil. There's been numerous potential candidates in the past (Rooney, Mata, Carrick, Lingard, Shaw etc) but I'm almost certain one of the primary current ones is Henderson.
The recent stories from Chris Wheeler have had a remarkable level of detail especially when it comes to his own future and contract situation that I can't help but feel he's the main source in the dressing room given how neither Ole or RR have thought him worthy of an extended run in the side over De Gea after he signed a new contract the summer before last.
The recent stories from Chris Wheeler have had a remarkable level of detail especially when it comes to his own future and contract situation that I can't help but feel he's the main source in the dressing room given how neither Ole or RR have thought him worthy of an extended run in the side over De Gea after he signed a new contract the summer before last.
Some players have a bad attitude because they're acting the Twat regardless of poor management above them at any particular level. This happens at all clubs at all levels of the game, no amount of good management at board or team level will ever ensure a club is immune from it. Yes the Glazers and Woodward have a lot to answer for but everyone from the Manager to the players can also be criticized for acting unprofessionally, having a poor attitude, creating discontent around the club etc.
And the club were right to push back on Jose as he'd lost the plot at that point, if anything just as with Moyes and Solskjaer they waited too long to pull the trigger on sacking him. He wanted to sell Pogba 2 years after he was signed for a World record fee because he fell out with him and he was the fecking guy who wanted to sign him in the first place. Jose's not some unfairly ignored and misunderstood hindsight hero let's not rewrite history.
Last edited: