Our Progress

[NZT-One]

Their most important player who was also a part of their team who shipped 3 against Leeds and 7 against Villa, that guy? Of course, it's all hypothetical from your end, but they had some shocking defensive performances after lockdown with him in the side as well...

I am sure you just forgot, that they not only lost VVD but also most of the rest of their CBs. I don't have any compassion with them, feck them, it might have been their managers fault as well to an extent seeing that their young CBs are doing just fine these days, re-shuffling their whole team was too much. Nevertheless - the original point was, they were severely weakend by injuries. While we were relatively lucky with major injuries this year. Sometimes your lucky, sometimes you aren't. But I don't see the benefit of downplaying the effects of an injury crisis. As Manchester United, we should know better about this.

With that being said, we need more because certain players are starters when they really should be squad players and bringing those upgrades in will see a further progression of the team. I'd say we're 4 top quality additions away from being a complete team, but just getting in two of those players would see us come on leaps and bounds.

Controversial thought: the question of the OP was about the extent of progress we have made. I understand you clearly recognize progress and the extent of it is... big/really big/magnifiecent/significant? Correct me here, about the extent. I interpreted your texts that you consider the progress (at least) as significant.

My question would be, if we are 4 quality additions away right now, did you consider the Mourinho team as 10 players short? Genuine question, not a trick. I think, this might be one angle to discuss the actual extent of progress.

 

[Bilbo]

Favourite season as a United fan since Fergie. That's all that matters to me.

Many people will probably skim right past this post but for me it pretty much encapsulates everything that I feel about the team.

This forum has shown in the last few days that it is still full of posters that will change their feelings one way or the other based on the latest result or two, and that is always going to be an unhealthy way to think about football, but considering that we've had no stadium support all season and the classic matches have been few and far between compared to most years, this United team have provided a good number of standout moments and performances that will stay with me. I love this group of players and look forward to our matches way more than I have for years. That'll do for me

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Many people will probably skim right past this post but for me it pretty much encapsulates everything that I feel about the team.

This forum has shown in the last few days that it is still full of posters that will change their feelings one way or the other based on the latest result or two, and that is always going to be an unhealthy way to think about football, but considering that we've had no stadium support all season and the classic matches have been few and far between compared to most years, this United team have provided a good number of standout moments and performances that will stay with me. I love this group of players and look forward to our matches way more than I have for years. That'll do for me

I have to agree with the post you quoted, despite feeling repeatedly convinced that we’ll never win the league under Ole. It’s been a rip-roaring season full of stirring comebacks. And that’s been excellent fun. Way more fun than any season under Moyes/LvG/Mou.

 

[Bilbo]

I have to agree with the post you quoted, despite feeling repeatedly convinced that we’ll never win the league under Ole. It’s been a rip-roaring season full of stirring comebacks. And that’s been excellent fun. Way more fun than any season under Moyes/LvG/Mou.

I hear you. I think there's a high likelihood that we'd struggle to get near City no matter who is in charge. They are well ahead of us in development and still progressing.

Dominance rarely lasts in football though. I want City to get this Champions League because I think it will actually damage them afterwards. That pinnacle will have been reached and I think some of what is driving the team, and Pep, will slowly start to erode. It will be the beginning of the end of Pep, and despite all the money and talent in the team he is what elevates them.

I've long felt, and regularly posted, since early Ole days that our plan has been to be the best placed team to take over and i still firmly believe that we are. We are in 2nd place now with a team with obvious issues and Ole deserves more credit for that than he receives. There is still so much identifiable and attainable improvement potential in our team

 

[Pretzels81]

The fact that we haven't struggled to finish top2-4 (or failing at it) is a huge achievement in itself compared to 2013-2017.

It's a mix of Mou's league run in 2017-18 with the EL title (if we win the final, that is) of 2016-17.

But I still say we will never win the PL with Ole if
a) Pep is still City's manager
b) the club doesn't buy at least two or three TopTop players (the likes of Haaland, for example).

The club is going towards a "Top4 with ease and decent UCL runs (QFs/Semis)" era at best.

 

[wolvored]

Ive said before, to progress we need to be within a shout of the title going into the last couple of games.
These last couple of games have shown we are still not consistent enough. One player injured has changed the dynamic and we have been lucky this has come at the end of the season.
We need a big spend and 3 elite players CD DM and forward are needed at least imo. Buying kids like Amad or sub par players like Telles again will not elevate us to any level.
Next season Liverpool and Chelsea will be stronger as well as City.

 

[ReddBalls]

This is a thread, where the OP asked for opinions about the extent of progress. I've shared my opinion just like anybody else and the reply you quoted was specifically towards somebody who stated that the mild increase of points gained doesn't matter because the only thing that counts is league position.

So good job getting triggered by a few specific words just because you consider everybody bitchy when they don't share your opinion. Its bewildering that some people seemingly are so positive about the clubs progress that they simply cannot stand other people not feeling the same way... If you are so secure about the progress why are you entering such a thread? Weird.

While you're obviously entitled to your opinion, I still wonder what kind of value you think you bring to the table by focusing on negatives while there are obvious positives? You want the team to win stuff, don't you? While you might not subscribe to the idea that supporting a team is, you know, being supportive, you seem intelligent enough to realize that the only thing we as supporters can do is affect the mood around the club. Negativity breeds negativity, and a negative enviroment is never ever a fertile breeding ground for success. What do you aim to achieve with your posts?

Another valuable contribution. Wasn't aware that Ole just started his job in winter. I am sure, you will be here next year having the same explanation for why we aren't top. Apart from that: good to know, you see progress and see us continuing the upwards trend. I'd love to see it to the same extent.

One has to be blind or have no memory to not see progress from where United were when Ole took charge. Will it continue? No one knows, but so far he has tackled obstacles well, the team is playing better and the reslts are better. Thing is, if the only thing you are looking for are "negative indicators", what you find tends to be the bad stuff. No football team is ever perfect.

 

[Abraxas]

To get closer to City, once more. You have to imagine this will mean getting closer to the winners.

Unfortunately, as much as we have to concentrate on ourselves and be more consistent, it's not as if our overall performance can be judged out of context of what they do. We can look at stats but it is ultimately where we finish in relation that impacts perception. People are more interested in a title than points per game tallies.

Not is it sensible to demand the delivery of a title as the only form of success. The harsh reality is City have a much better team than us, a better structure which seems to allow better recruitment and one of the best managers ever.

Our goal has to be to close all of those advantages that City have down. We seem to be making slow progress in performance and recruitment - clearly they are linked. I'm not sure about the processes behind the scenes as we may see a shakeup there with recent changes or it may be more of the same.

A lot could depend on the summer. If we see a couple of major signings and they really hit the ground running then it could make a massive difference to the draws we've had. But the rest of the team have to stay at this level and not drop off too. If we can't get the major targets and have to settle for second best then it's going to be very much incremental improvements that I expect to see.

 

[NZT-One]

While you're obviously entitled to your opinion, I still wonder what kind of value you think you bring to the table by focusing on negatives while there are obvious positives? You want the team to win stuff, don't you? While you might not subscribe to the idea that supporting a team is, you know, being supportive, you seem intelligent enough to realize that the only thing we as supporters can do is affect the mood around the club. Negativity breeds negativity, and a negative enviroment is never ever a fertile breeding ground for success. What do you aim to achieve with your posts?

What do you want to achieve with your posts? This is a thread on a discussion forum where the extent of progress wants to be discussed. A somewhat subjective thing. You seem pretty self assured, that the progress is there. So what is your point to come in here? Are you looking for arguments? I don't get it. The players and the manager don't give a flying f*** what is written in here.

If it makes you feel better, write all your stuff, be as supportive as you can. But don't act as if you are a better person, fan or whatever because of it. I want the club to win stuff exactly like you and anybody else on here. And I support the club for quite some time, I watch all matches, the ones I am unavailable I download and watch. I read articles about tactics and other football related stuff. Plus I read about other football clubs and am interested in what they do, what effects certain actions have and so on. Because of all that, my opinion is formed. And now you are coming here to imply it must be wrong and I must be blind because...negativity. Alright then.

One has to be blind or have no memory to not see progress from where United were when Ole took charge. Will it continue? No one knows, but so far he has tackled obstacles well, the team is playing better and the reslts are better. Thing is, if the only thing you are looking for are "negative indicators", what you find tends to be the bad stuff. No football team is ever perfect.

I get a slight feeling that you aren't really arguing with me but with some imaginary person you consider as unworthy fan. Because I simply cannot see, where in my posts you come to the conclusion that a) I "not see progress" and b) I am "only looking for negative indicators" .

This is my first reply to this thread:

I agree with the OP, I think there surely is progress, we were able to grind results even when we were playing crap and we also managed to play some nice stuff but at the same time, we had big issues in critical moments, left CL group and title race in a disappointing manner, lost to direct rivals. This is not complaining, its just summarizing the season as a whole.

So yes, progress has been made. But I am a little worried that next season reality might hit us harder than some people expect. Other teams noticed our upwards trend, they will be prepared just like the bigger teams have been prepared this year. But still, I certainly wouldn't think a second about changing the managing team right now as there is no obvious candidate who really fills me with confidence. Ole might not be a Tuchel figure who is deep into the nitty-gritty pro-active puppet mastering but by setting the right environment, Ole can provide the squad with the opportunity to evolve.

Your issue isn't me being overly negative. Your issue seems to be not able to accept either that some aspects of the season weren't soo great and entertaining or you have issues with other people stating things you don't agree with. Whatever it is, get over yourself. If you are confident, we will continue progress, well done, good luck for you sir. I am not convinced and this thread didn't really deliver more arguments to convince me otherwise because half of it is complaining that some fans aren't as good fans as other fans. If that makes me blind for you, then so be it.

 

[Nick7]

Shall we revisit this?

 

[Nori-]

If you subtract Bruno from these team, has Ole really improved us that much?

I don't think he has and the "Club Legend" protection status he has is staring to wear thin.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Said a few weeks back it was massive to win this to show this sign of progress but we’ve lost it and not just lost it but lost it playing in a way that is actually quite unforgivable. That was a very poor side we were up against and the players and manager failed miserably to deliver.

Two and a half seasons of Mourinho. Two trophies, runners up in the league (81 points) and runners up in a cup final. Generally average to below average football.

Two and a half seasons under Ole. No trophies, runners up in the league (74 points) and runners up in a cup final. Generally average to below average football.

I’m afraid when you look at things from a results and standard of football perspective. There is not really any considerable progress.
Ole has progressed on his own record but as a club we haven’t and three years post Mourinho it’s literally the same shit. We finish a respectable 2nd but then blow out the rest of the season and then put on a shitshow of a performance in a cup final. Could not be more identical if it tried....

At least though, there’s a feel good factor around the place and a sense of a bright future. These things obviously can’t be measured by anything that takes place on the pitch but who cares...

 

[SAFMUTD]

Points wise yes we progressed, performance wise we dont. Still our best form was last year after the covid break. We still have the same of issues, we can't play from the back as soon as we are pressed, we are nothing short of SHIT at defending set pieces and when a team locks itself we barelely look like scoring.

Seriously, is anyone optimistic for next year? does anyone feels we made a jump and are just 2-3 players away from challenging? we have a BIG coaching problem in very specific parts of our game. Its been 3 years of Ole and we havent improved at all at them. People are deluded if they think by signing Sancho we'll sudenly crack up defenses, or if he sign a more comanding GK or Varane/Kounde or whoever we'll magically defend great at set pieces.

Those issues are solved with coaching and training, Ole needs to change the coaches or fix the things himself its too much of a liability to have. Teams are targeting us its ridiculous now.

With this coaching team we'll only be as good as our players, we need a coach than can develop a team that players better as a whole than their individuals.

 

[Dan_F]

We’ve absolutely progressed from last season, but it’s marginal, and I have serious doubts about his ability to take us that extra 10% forward. Put a new midfielder and centre back in the team and we would probably win that game. Yeah. Would it help us win the league? Nah.

 

[#07]

The real question is: what are we trying to progress to?

For the fans it's winning titles. For the club? I think they'd be happy if Ole guided us to fourth place every season.

I think that the people in the boardroom will look at this season and think: back to back champions league qualifications. That's great.

The aim at the top of the club is to guarantee revenues that feed their financial model. That's it.

We are where Arsenal were 10 years ago. Like their fans we just haven't realised it. In 2004 nobody would have said Arsenal won't win another title for 17 years. This year we are pushing 9. Soon it'll be 10. People have to get used to it. The Glazers are no more interested in the league than Kronke is.

 

[sparx99]

Courtesy of Transfermarkt, we’ve ranked the 20 current Premier League clubs by their net spend over the past five years.

1. Man City – £601.98m
2. Man Utd – £484.88m
3. Arsenal – £267.88m
4. Everton – £225.42m
5. Brighton – £214.86m
6. Wolves – £205.22m
7. West Ham – £187.49m
8. Bournemouth – £176.95m
9. Aston Villa – £166.65m
10. Watford – £125.69m
11. Leicester City – £124.83m
12. Newcastle – £122.91m
13. Chelsea – £115.57m
14. Liverpool – £107.58m
15. Tottenham – £106.62m
16. Crystal Palace – £75.69m
17. Burnley – £59.4m
18. Sheffield United – £56.71m
19. Southampton – £22.32m
20. Norwich City – £25.42m profit

The problem with these lists is it doesn’t give context. We are trying to catch City and spent significantly less while they were adding to I what they already had.

We are finally in a position where we are adding to a good team which needs a bit more quality and depth. Kind of where Liverpool were before Alisson and Van Dijk were signed the same summer.

 

[NZT-One]

The problem with these lists is it doesn’t give context. We are trying to catch City and spent significantly less while they were adding to I what they already had.

We are finally in a position where we are adding to a good team which needs a bit more quality and depth. Kind of where Liverpool were before Alisson and Van Dijk were signed the same summer.

You are certainly right in which they also lost a final in European competition... And the opponents name had "real" in its name.

Good recruitment is certainly key and essential to continue the positive trends. But the buck shouldn't stop there. If we want to keep Carrick and McKenny, fine, no issue with that, just a few more coaches to the team. It will benefit us greatly to have some proven specialists.

 

[MU655]

The issue is what do you have when you have no trophies under Solskjaer?

What has our improvement actually entailed up to this point under Solskjaer? 8 points in the league, which is 2 wins and 2 draws more than we got in the season he took over. That isn't actually a lot when you consider the over £200m worth of net investment for the side (the highest of any Premier League club during this period) and the two and a half years up to this point.

We have scored 73 goals in the league and conceded 44 goals. Last season, we scored 66 and conceded 36. In 2018/19, we scored 65 and conceded 54 goals.

When you consider we scored 9 goals in one game, our goal scoring isn't actually very impressive. Despite that 9 goal win, we still only managed to score 6 more than last season and 7 more than the season he joined. Overall, this indicates that our goal scoring per game has not improved despite the addition of Fernandes and Cavani.

20/21 - goal scored per game (with 9 nil victory - over the 38 games) - 1.92
20/21 - goal scored per game (without 9 nil victory [anomaly win] - 37 games) - 1.68
19/20 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) - 1.73
18/19 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) -1.71

The anomaly of a victory has given the appearance that there has been improvement, but outside of that game, we are actually scoring at a lower rate than the previous two seasons.

Goals conceded are up on last season, but there was an anomaly with the 6-1 defeat to Tottenham.

20/21 - goal conceded per game (with Tottenham defeat - over the 38 games) - 1.15
20/21 - goal conceded per game (without Tottenham defeat - over the 37 games) - 1
19/20 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) - 0.95
18/19 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) -1.42

We have seen improvements defensively over his first season, but it has actually dropped off from last season (even when you remove the anomalous result).

Overall, I feel that there is a bit of a false premise of improvement. I think a lot of the basis of improvement has actually been founded on finishing second, but that really has more to do with the 30 point drop off of Liverpool than clawing that gap through our own improvement. In truth, I think Solskjaer has been a bit fortunate that Liverpool did fall so far as there would be no second place to plaster over the lack of substantial improvement.

No trophies again just becomes more indicative that he may not be the right manager for the job.

 

[PoTMS]

Only Manchester United do rebuilds and progress in baby steps. Trust the process.

 

[telstar96]

The issue is what do you have when you have no trophies under Solskjaer?

What has our improvement actually entailed up to this point under Solskjaer? 8 points in the league, which is 2 wins and 2 draws more than we got in the season he took over. That isn't actually a lot when you consider the over £200m worth of net investment for the side (the highest of any Premier League club during this period) and the two and a half years up to this point.

We have scored 73 goals in the league and conceded 44 goals. Last season, we scored 66 and conceded 36. In 2018/19, we scored 65 and conceded 54 goals.

When you consider we scored 9 goals in one game, our goal scoring isn't actually very impressive. Despite that 9 goal win, we still only managed to score 6 more than last season and 7 more than the season he joined. Overall, this indicates that our goal scoring per game has not improved despite the addition of Fernandes and Cavani.

20/21 - goal scored per game (with 9 nil victory - over the 38 games) - 1.92
20/21 - goal scored per game (without 9 nil victory [anomaly win] - 37 games) - 1.68
19/20 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) - 1.73
18/19 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) -1.71

The anomaly of a victory has given the appearance that there has been improvement, but outside of that game, we are actually scoring at a lower rate than the previous two seasons.

Goals conceded are up on last season, but there was an anomaly with the 6-1 defeat to Tottenham.

20/21 - goal conceded per game (with Tottenham defeat - over the 38 games) - 1.15
20/21 - goal conceded per game (without Tottenham defeat - over the 37 games) - 1
19/20 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) - 0.95
18/19 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) -1.42

We have seen improvements defensively over his first season, but it has actually dropped off from last season (even when you remove the anomalous result).

Overall, I feel that there is a bit of a false premise of improvement. I think a lot of the basis of improvement has actually been founded on finishing second, but that really has more to do with the 30 point drop off of Liverpool than clawing that gap through our own improvement. In truth, I think Solskjaer has been a bit fortunate that Liverpool did fall so far as there would be no second place to plaster over the lack of substantial improvement.

No trophies again just becomes more indicative that he may not be the right manager for the job.

I completely agree on the point that our league position is a false premise of improvement. Next season I can't see us higher than 4th behind Chelsea, Liverpool and City.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ole has done a great job to stabilise the club and solidify us as a top 4 team. I think when he came in no one really expected him to be able to do this, so it's only fair we recognise this.

However, in my opinion this is his ceiling. I can't see Ole taking us beyond being a top 4 contender. Last night he was shown up to be tactically inept against a solid manager like Emery. I don't even think going trophy-less is the worst part of it. It's just constantly in the big moments, Ole manages to mess it up.

Now with the news of conte, zidane and potentially poch being available, surely the United board have to consider pursuing one those guys. I really don't want to be in a situation whereby we sack Ole midway through the season, with no quality managers available on the market.

 

[Josep Dowling]

There is no progress. We spent more money than every other club bar City yet no where near winning trophies. The whole club is a shambles in terms of management and nothing ever changes. Same mistakes every summer on transfers. Same mistakes by the manager. Same mistakes by the players who shouldn’t be playing every week or be at the club.

Just think we spent £80m last summer and not a single player has played regularly for us. Cavani cemented a place in the end but he’s got another season in him if we are lucky. That’s just pure incompetence by management to identify the right targets for us. The money we spent on Diallo and we have given him about 3 games this season. Same for Donny. There was so much more opportunity to play these players over the season and that lack of rotation ultimately cost us.

 

[sparx99]

The issue is what do you have when you have no trophies under Solskjaer?

What has our improvement actually entailed up to this point under Solskjaer? 8 points in the league, which is 2 wins and 2 draws more than we got in the season he took over. That isn't actually a lot when you consider the over £200m worth of net investment for the side (the highest of any Premier League club during this period) and the two and a half years up to this point.

We have scored 73 goals in the league and conceded 44 goals. Last season, we scored 66 and conceded 36. In 2018/19, we scored 65 and conceded 54 goals.

When you consider we scored 9 goals in one game, our goal scoring isn't actually very impressive. Despite that 9 goal win, we still only managed to score 6 more than last season and 7 more than the season he joined. Overall, this indicates that our goal scoring per game has not improved despite the addition of Fernandes and Cavani.

20/21 - goal scored per game (with 9 nil victory - over the 38 games) - 1.92
20/21 - goal scored per game (without 9 nil victory [anomaly win] - 37 games) - 1.68
19/20 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) - 1.73
18/19 - goal scored per game (over the 38 games) -1.71

The anomaly of a victory has given the appearance that there has been improvement, but outside of that game, we are actually scoring at a lower rate than the previous two seasons.

Goals conceded are up on last season, but there was an anomaly with the 6-1 defeat to Tottenham.

20/21 - goal conceded per game (with Tottenham defeat - over the 38 games) - 1.15
20/21 - goal conceded per game (without Tottenham defeat - over the 37 games) - 1
19/20 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) - 0.95
18/19 - goal conceded per game (over the 38 games) -1.42

We have seen improvements defensively over his first season, but it has actually dropped off from last season (even when you remove the anomalous result).

Overall, I feel that there is a bit of a false premise of improvement. I think a lot of the basis of improvement has actually been founded on finishing second, but that really has more to do with the 30 point drop off of Liverpool than clawing that gap through our own improvement. In truth, I think Solskjaer has been a bit fortunate that Liverpool did fall so far as there would be no second place to plaster over the lack of substantial improvement.

No trophies again just becomes more indicative that he may not be the right manager for the job.

The increased points tally is also in a season when points totalled were lower. So maybe a bigger improvement than it seems on first viewing. May well have been over 80 points in a non-pandemic season.

 

[sparx99]

You are certainly right in which they also lost a final in European competition... And the opponents name had "real" in its name.

Good recruitment is certainly key and essential to continue the positive trends. But the buck shouldn't stop there. If we want to keep Carrick and McKenny, fine, no issue with that, just a few more coaches to the team. It will benefit us greatly to have some proven specialists.

There is still huge amount of improvement to make of course. Simply in attacking and defending set pieces. We should look for a specialist coach in that area as it’s really cost us all season.

 

[Roboc7]

The problem with these lists is it doesn’t give context. We are trying to catch City and spent significantly less while they were adding to I what they already had.

We are finally in a position where we are adding to a good team which needs a bit more quality and depth. Kind of where Liverpool were before Alisson and Van Dijk were signed the same summer.

Except Liverpool had a top class manager, even with better players we can’t expect Ole to compete with recent standards needed to win the league.

Ole’s not building towards that level, he doesn’t have ability to and that’s not a criticism just acceptance that very few do and Ole isn’t even close.

 

[telstar96]

Except Liverpool had a top class manager, even with better players we can’t expect Ole to compete with recent standards needed to win the league.

Ole’s not building towards that level, he doesn’t have ability to and that’s not a criticism just acceptance that very few do and Ole isn’t even close.

Completely agree.

I can't understand when people make the comparison with Liverpool. When Klopp arrived he had won 2 Bundesliga's, 1 DFB-Pokal and reached a UCL final with Dortmund, Ole has two Norwegian league titles... Different levels, Klopp with a solid CV and Ole with a very thin CV.

 

[Foxbatt]

Of course it is progress. From 4th to 2nd and from QF to Final of the EL. But do we want to be Arsenal? Perennial losers and also rans?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The daft late schedule robbed the management of a 10 point improvement in the league.

The disappointment of last night kills a lot of momentum but they’ve done just enough with that points improvement to deserve to be backed in the Summer and fecked right off if they aren’t challenging by December.

 

[Nick7]

Of course it is progress. From 4th to 2nd and from QF to Final of the EL. But do we want to be Arsenal? Perennial losers and also rans?

We finished 3rd and got to the semi last year

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Only at United do managers apparently need 3-4 seasons and an entire XI of new players before they start winning trophies.

 

[Bobcat]

Points wise yes we progressed, performance wise we dont. Still our best form was last year after the covid break. We still have the same of issues, we can't play from the back as soon as we are pressed, we are nothing short of SHIT at defending set pieces and when a team locks itself we barelely look like scoring.

Seriously, is anyone optimistic for next year? does anyone feels we made a jump and are just 2-3 players away from challenging? we have a BIG coaching problem in very specific parts of our game. Its been 3 years of Ole and we havent improved at all at them. People are deluded if they think by signing Sancho we'll sudenly crack up defenses, or if he sign a more comanding GK or Varane/Kounde or whoever we'll magically defend great at set pieces.

Those issues are solved with coaching and training, Ole needs to change the coaches or fix the things himself its too much of a liability to have. Teams are targeting us its ridiculous now.

With this coaching team we'll only be as good as our players, we need a coach than can develop a team that players better as a whole than their individuals.

Sorry, but thats just nonsense.

Remember how much an impact Bruno had? How Van Dijk and Allison completely transformed Liverpool from leaking like a sieve to barely conceding. Its not like Klopp suddenly figured out in 2018 how to coach a defense. Top players make a massive difference, which is why clubs are willing to part with vast amounts of money to secure their service

I really like Greenwood and think hes a star in the making, but hes still just a teen and hes future should be as a CF not on the wing. Sancho is one of the most productive players in Europe and i'd be really surprised if he did not improve us significantly

I agree that we suck at set pieces and probably a lot of that has to do with limitations of our coaching staff, but if we had prime Vidic back there instead of Lindelof we would have conceded much less

 

[SAFMUTD]

Sorry, but thats just nonsense.

Remember how much an impact Bruno had? How Van Dijk and Allison completely transformed Liverpool from leaking like a sieve to barely conceding. Its not like Klopp suddenly figured out in 2018 how to coach a defense. Top players make a massive difference, which is why clubs are willing to part with vast amounts of money to secure their service

I really like Greenwood and think hes a star in the making, but hes still just a teen and hes future should be as a CF not on the wing. Sancho is one of the most productive players in Europe and i'd be really surprised if he did not improve us significantly

I agree that we suck at set pieces and probably a lot of that has to do with limitations of our coaching staff, but if we had prime Vidic back there instead of Lindelof we would have conceded much less

Liverpool problems were really different than ours, they had a shitty goal keeper, thats not a coaching issue thats a player issue solved by buying Alisson. They used their fullback as a main channel for attack therefore they needed a wordclass defender that allowed them to do it. Virgil solved that for them amazingly. That was a team that was playing good but were lacking some key pieces.

Thats exactly my question, do you think if we buy a kepper or defender or both well sundenly learn how to play from the back or how to defend set pieces? thats not a lack of player or quality issue, thats lack of coaching. No matter who we buy that wont be corrected if not coached properly.

Regarding Sancho I agree, he may give us an extra tool to open low blocks. But still that would be like what we currently do, expect Bruno to do some magic rather than develop a style that systematically break teams down. I get the logic, get yourself a lot of talent that way if Bruno is having an off game we have another one but soner or later individual brilliance will dry. That can do it in cup games but in a league you definitely need a system.

Bottom line is can we progress if we buy better players? of course we can. Buying better players will be enough to compete with City? no, not without proper coaching.

 

[croadyman]

I completely agree on the point that our league position is a false premise of improvement. Next season I can't see us higher than 4th behind Chelsea, Liverpool and City.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ole has done a great job to stabilise the club and solidify us as a top 4 team. I think when he came in no one really expected him to be able to do this, so it's only fair we recognise this.

However, in my opinion this is his ceiling. I can't see Ole taking us beyond being a top 4 contender. Last night he was shown up to be tactically inept against a solid manager like Emery. I don't even think going trophy-less is the worst part of it. It's just constantly in the big moments, Ole manages to mess it up.

Now with the news of conte, zidane and potentially poch being available, surely the United board have to consider pursuing one those guys. I really don't want to be in a situation whereby we sack Ole midway through the season, with no quality managers available on the market.

Yeah we only take action on managers when they fail to deliver top 4 and generally it seems that the quality of people on the market at the time is to generally pretty shite whereas at the moment there is a couple of good options, however we won't act because the board will keep rolling out we are keeping faith until he gets the players he needs BS

 

[sparx99]

Only at United do managers apparently need 3-4 seasons and an entire XI of new players before they start winning trophies.

Go back and look at the team we had. It needed properly dismantling and rebuilding. We were so badly managed through Moyes, LVG & Mourinho it was always going to take time to fix unless the owners went full sugar daddy.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Go back and look at the team we had. It needed properly dismantling and rebuilding. We were so badly managed through Moyes, LVG & Mourinho it was always going to take time to fix unless the owners went full sugar daddy.

You may not know this but that squad won a EL under Mourinho 18 months before.

 

[VidaRed]

Progress is defined through silverware.

 

[Sweet Square]

Maybe judging the last 2 and half years on David De Gea ability to score penalties isn't a great way to view progress of a football team.

 

[acnumber9]

Maybe judging the last 2 and half years on David De Gea ability to score penalties isn't a great way to view progress of a football team.

Were the preceding 120 minutes any more useful?

 

[el3mel]

Go back and look at the team we had. It needed properly dismantling and rebuilding. We were so badly managed through Moyes, LVG & Mourinho it was always going to take time to fix unless the owners went full sugar daddy.

What does this have to do with the fact we lost a competition in which our opposition was 7th in their league and never won any actual trophy before?

And that we entered such competition because of a huge bottle job in our CL group against a shit Turkish side that were participating in the competition for their first ever time in history and scored their first ever CL goals and their first ever win in CL against us?

 

[croadyman]

What does this have to do with the fact we lost a competition in which our opposition was 7th in their league and never won any actual trophy before?

And that we entered such competition because of a huge bottle job in our CL group against a shit Turkish side that were participating in the competition for their first ever time in history and scored their first ever CL goals and their first ever win in CL against us?

God that turkish game would have be up there as once of our most embarrassing performances ever

 

[stw2022]

I’m not sure I can remember a worse second place than us and I think that includes under Mourinho.