Ole signs new contract

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He has been a manager as long a time as Pep. If by now, he doesn't have the ability to implement a progressive style which can bring trophies, when will he learn to?

To put it into perspective - he's won 3 trophies in the over 11 years he's been a top flight manager, not even taking into account his reserve stuff. When you consider the level of competition he was competing in for the majority of his career - and his only exploit outside of that poor league led to being sacked, what exactly gives you hope that he is an elite manager?

Don't get me wrong - purely as a man manager, I think he's World class, but most top flight managers are head coaches too now - in that regard, I don't think he's nearly good enough. That being said, with the right coaches around him delegating responsibility, I think it could work, but that's obviously down to him and the board to be able to identify.
There are many, many great managers out there, and I'm not saying Solskajer does or does not belong to that category, however, there's only 4 trophies up for grabs at any one season and usually the teams that have spent the most and had consistency and continuity tend to win them regularly.

It's unfair to judge anyone's trophy haul when they haven't managed a team capable of winning major silverware in the first place.
 
Keep seeing this get posted: 'his ceiling isn't that of an elite manager' or 'he will never be an elite manager' or something big similar Ilk.

Remind me how one becomes an elite manager'?
Does anyone become an elite manager without getting an opportunity?

Of course not, but there are normally (if not always) signs that show there's something quite special there. After managing for a decade or so, it's hard to say that about Ole, other than his man management seems to be top notch. Whatever the case, this season is obviously a huge one for him.
 
There are many, many great managers out there, and I'm not saying Solskajer does or does not belong to that category, however, there's only 4 trophies up for grabs at any one season and usually the teams that have spent the most and had consistency and continuity tend to win them regularly.

It's unfair to judge anyone's trophy haul when they haven't managed a team capable of winning major silverware in the first place.

How is it unfair? He's won 3 trophies in 11 years. That's a very poor record for an 'elite' manager. Also, it's not as easy as saying he wasn't playing at a team that had the level to compete because the level of the league is was far lower.

Since then, he's joined United, we are still yet to amass a point tally anywhere near enough to win the PL and being knocked out of the cups consistently to inferior teams, despite him being here for over two years and spending a considerable amount of money. If that's the signs of a potential elite manager to you, all power to you, but it seems to be the ones who have faith in him that are the ones hoping rather than actually having a look at his career previously and what is currently transpiring at United as that is a very good way to judge a coaches' ability.

I still hope he succeeds of course, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully I'm wrong. Either way, this is a huge season for him, he's running out of excuses now, only so long we can keep throwing the 'time' excuse out there.
 
How is it unfair? He's won 3 trophies in 11 years. That's a very poor record for an 'elite' manager. Also, it's not as easy as saying he wasn't playing at a team that had the level to compete because the level of the league is was far lower.

Since then, he's joined United, we are still yet to amass a point tally anywhere near enough to win the PL and being knocked out of the cups consistently to inferior teams, despite him being here for over two years and spending a considerable amount of money. If that's the signs of a potential elite manager to you, all power to you, but it seems to be the ones who have faith in him that are the ones hoping rather than actually having a look at his career previously and what is currently transpiring at United as that is a very good way to judge a coaches' ability.

I still hope he succeeds of course, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully I'm wrong. Either way, this is a huge season for him, he's running out of excuses now, only so long we can keep throwing the 'time' excuse out there.
Because who has he managed in that time to actually win a major trophy? It's like saying Pochettino has managed since 2009, what has he won?
 
Keep seeing this get posted: 'his ceiling isn't that of an elite manager' or 'he will never be an elite manager' or something big similar Ilk.

Remind me how one becomes an elite manager'?
Does anyone become an elite manager without getting an opportunity?
Not straight at jumping in to being manager of the biggest club in the world you dont no, you have to prove yourself first, achieve something with a smaller team in a big League, thats the opportunity you get, unless you are an ex united player that is.
 
Because who has he managed in that time to actually win a major trophy? It's like saying Pochettino has managed since 2009, what has he won?

A Molde team which since his inclusion should have been there or thereabouts. He won a few trophies with them, to then suggest they're not good enough to win silverware goes against that fact. Unless you're suggesting that the trophy win was purely down to the team rather than his exploits as a manager? Furthermore, they won the league the exact same year Ole joined us as a manager, did they not? Hardly a promising sign for a manager who supposedly was competing in a team that had no hope of winning silverware.

Also yes, Pochettino not winning major honors is a huge black mark on his end, it's been discussed to death on here. Even still, in his first half season at a team that isn't shite like Spurs, he's won a trophy. We are still waiting for Ole to win a trophy since 2013.
 
A Molde team which since his inclusion should have been there or thereabouts. He won a few trophies with them, to then suggest they're not good enough to win silverware goes against that fact. Unless you're suggesting that the trophy win was purely down to the team rather than his exploits as a manager? Furthermore, they won the league the exact same year Ole joined us as a manager, did they not? Hardly a promising sign for a manager who supposedly was competing in a team that had no hope of winning silverware.

Also yes, Pochettino not winning major honors is a huge black mark on his end, it's been discussed to death on here. Even still, in his first half season at a team that isn't shite like Spurs, he's won a trophy. We are still waiting for Ole to win a trophy since 2013.
Modle won the league after spending a tonne of money (for a Norwegian team) which allowed them to recruit better and break the monopoly on the league. They didn't maintain that kind of spend to continue to compete though. He did well with the resources provided and managed to break a monopoly, he's also got a job for life there now as a result.

I'm suggesting that teams that spend big and back their managers tend to win stuff. In super competitive leagues like the PL it's always going to be more difficult to win anything, I'm sure if Ole also managed a Bayern or a PSG he'd pick up a couple of trophies in a few months also, hell, even Big Sam would.
 
Modle won the league after spending a tonne of money (for a Norwegian team) which allowed them to recruit better and break the monopoly on the league. They didn't maintain that kind of spend to continue to compete though. He did well with the resources provided and managed to break a monopoly, he's also got a job for life there now as a result.

I'm suggesting that teams that spend big and back their managers tend to win stuff. In super competitive leagues like the PL it's always going to be more difficult to win anything, I'm sure if Ole also managed a Bayern or a PSG he'd pick up a couple of trophies in a few months also, hell, even Big Sam would.

No, the teams who spend big and have the appropriate coaches to get the most out of the squad win things. Chelsea's squad didn't change at all when Tuchel came in, but they amassed a higher point tally than us in his time, alongside getting to an FA cup final and winning the Champions league. Given how their circumstances were looking before Tuchel joined, no-one would have guessed they'd finish as strongly as they did.

You claim Molde didn't continue to spend the required funds to compete, but they won the league in 2019, the year Ole joined us. So I guess they didn't have to continue spending ridiculous amounts and back their manager to win.

For the record, I agree a team needs to spend to win - but there's a feck tonne of top teams that are loaded now, alongside having coaches who are elevating the level of their players, that's simply why 'backing your manager' and 'spending money' isn't enough. Is Ole the coach to take these players to another level? We'll have to see, but given his record, I am not holding my breath.
 
Of course not, but there are normally (if not always) signs that show there's something quite special there. After managing for a decade or so, it's hard to say that about Ole, other than his man management seems to be top notch. Whatever the case, this season is obviously a huge one for him.
There were plenty of signs that he could step up early in his career. His performances with our reserves were drawing plenty of plaudits on this very same forum back in the late noughties/early 10s. He then broke Rosenborg's monopoly when he went to Molde and when he returned from Cardiff he rebuilt the team and set it up for the next man to come in and win the league (which he absolutely would have done if not for Utd coming calling in 2018).

Let's face it, the reason why so many people don't think he's good is because of one bad experience at Cardiff. It's tainted perceptions of him in the wider media to the extent that for many of them, they just can't bring themselves to give him anything but the most backhanded of compliments. Understandable, if Cardiff was the model he followed here, or if those same results and patterns persisted but the fact of the matter is we haven't looked that way for over 18 months and the vast majority of his time at the club.

Great managers have had relegations on their CVs. SAF was one. Benitez another. I'm not saying Ole is even on Benitez' level, but he's done enough in his time here with a subpar and young squad to be given the benefit of the doubt for this season.
 
I agree. Never said he wasn't backed but the numbers don't tell the whole story. Why have Utd bought 4 off the most expensive players in the PL? Is it because they are the best players in the world or because we have been desperate and teams added the Utd tax?

Thought the EL final vs Villarreal showed that we are absolutely miles away from having a good squad and that isn't in Ole, this club has been miss managed since SAF retired and money been thrown about without any structure or a plan.
I agree we overpay for players who are simply not the best. I don't know what the reason is.
The EL final showed our manager doesn't understand squad usage and is incredibly timid and doesn't trust/know how to use his squad and even if we get him better players he may fall prey to inferior competition. Villareal brought on Coquelin and other no name players. We had on our bench Brazilian international Fred, Dutch international Donny, Brazilian international Telles (played on 3 occasions in 2020), Matic, world cup winner Mata, Diallo (37m), an embarrassment of riches compared to Europa League competition.
 
He has been a manager as long a time as Pep. If by now, he doesn't have the ability to implement a progressive style which can bring trophies, when will he learn to?

To put it into perspective - he's won 3 trophies in the over 11 years, the last of which came in 12/13. When you consider the level of competition he was competing in for the majority of his career - and his only exploit outside of that poor league led to being sacked, what exactly gives you hope that he is an elite manager?

Don't get me wrong - purely as a man manager, I think he's World class, but most top flight managers are head coaches too now - in that regard, I don't think he's nearly good enough. That being said, with the right coaches around him delegating responsibility, I think it could work, but that's obviously down to him and the board to be able to identify.

Agreed.

Because who has he managed in that time to actually win a major trophy? It's like saying Pochettino has managed since 2009, what has he won?

Pochettino transformed Southampton, and built a very exciting side that overperformed based on talent and resources available. At Tottenham, he also came very close, built a very strong team and helped propel many players to great heights like Kane and Son Heung-min. We can see how much Tottenham are regretting their decision to sack him and how they've fallen backwards from the accomplishments he brought to that football club. At PSG, he already has 2 trophies in half a season and has a phenomenal win percentage rate. Of course now he has frightening resources available, so we can fully expect him to make use of these resources.

Compare this to what Ole has spent at United. A very concerningly high amount, and what has he delivered in return? Knocked out of every cup competition in familiar manners, being outwitted by managers who quite frequently have fewer resources and lesser players available at their disposal. I appreciate that Ole represents this club with dignity and is well respected by the players, but there comes a time when it is not enough. The same mistakes persist. I am not saying to sack him, but why such a long contract before he gives us results? Let him earn it, we made this mistake time and again since Ferguson left us.
 
Paying off a manager, especially one, that is probably not on the highest wages, shouldn't be a factor when assessing the budget for player transfers. At the end of the day, we are talking about the team who hands out new contracts to seniors (hyperbole, I know).
Plus: you might be right - extending the contract in isolation may doesn't seem to be the smartest business decision but as long as there is nobody to take over the job of manager, the equation looks totally different. There is just nobody out there, available, skilled and with the pedigree and reputation needed to take over without firing up a big chunk of the fan base. Or who do you have in mind?

I am a bit sceptical of the current management team (specific aspects of their work) but just getting rid won't really help our situation.



I agree with that, especially the first part. Being a great guy is very good but it is like in most other areas of business, soft skills will only maximize potential if the actual knowledge/skill/ingenuity is there. Our competitors employ nice guys as well. But they bring even more to the table. Our competitor also employ great players, but their potential is very often maximized by playing as a coherent unit. Thats why we can do all transfers in the world but still be chasing behind.
Agreed but I’m not saying we should have got rid. I’m simply saying that I think a one year contract with one year possible extension made more sense when this is such a pivotal season. We finished 5 points ahead of Liverpool who were without their best player and had a truly terrible season. I don’t think last year was as cut and dried as some think. Ole did a good job yeah. But I don’t think it’s proof that we’re the second best team in England. It was exceptional circumstances that we just handled better than most and had fewer injuries despite not really rotating. I think this season is a big test and if he did well this year with a good squad fair enough. But 1+1 made more sense in terms of not having to pay off if he fails.
 
There were plenty of signs that he could step up early in his career. His performances with our reserves were drawing plenty of plaudits on this very same forum back in the late noughties/early 10s. He then broke Rosenborg's monopoly when he went to Molde and when he returned from Cardiff he rebuilt the team and set it up for the next man to come in and win the league (which he absolutely would have done if not for Utd coming calling in 2018).

Let's face it, the reason why so many people don't think he's good is because of one bad experience at Cardiff. It's tainted perceptions of him in the wider media to the extent that for many of them, they just can't bring themselves to give him anything but the most backhanded of compliments. Understandable, if Cardiff was the model he followed here, or if those same results and patterns persisted but the fact of the matter is we haven't looked that way for over 18 months and the vast majority of his time at the club.

Great managers have had relegations on their CVs. SAF was one. Benitez another. I'm not saying Ole is even on Benitez' level, but he's done enough in his time here with a subpar and young squad to be given the benefit of the doubt for this season.

I don't think that's true at all. I think it's because he's not looked like he's a tactically progressive manager who can read games as they go and react quickly and proactively. And people are waiting to see if he has that within him, to show courage and transmit that to his team and elevate it beyond the sum of its parts (which is what great managers do, even before they get their big breaks in management). He still seems to me to be conservative and reactive, despite the talk by him and the club. The man management side has been great, the atmosphere has been majorly improved, but the football is still not at a level and I keep thinking about how much of a difference Bruno has made through his extraordinary stats.

Sticking with him for the season made sense given the incremental progress (points on the board, goals scored and conceded, home record, cup runs, etc) we've been making along with the improvement in feeling around the club. And it would have been a strange thing to go into the season with him without him getting a new contract, as it would undermine him and the manager needs to always be the most important person in any dressing room, not least now with player power skyrocketing.

But this season is still one where he needs to properly convince.
 
I don't think that's true at all. I think it's because he's not looked like he's a tactically progressive manager who can read games as they go and react quickly and proactively. And people are waiting to see if he has that within him, to show courage and transmit that to his team and elevate it beyond the sum of its parts (which is what great managers do, even before they get their big breaks in management). He still seems to me to be conservative and reactive, despite the talk by him and the club. The man management side has been great, the atmosphere has been majorly improved, but the football is still not at a level and I keep thinking about how much of a difference Bruno has made through his extraordinary stats.

Sticking with him for the season made sense given the incremental progress (points on the board, goals scored and conceded, home record, cup runs, etc) we've been making along with the improvement in feeling around the club. And it would have been a strange thing to go into the season with him without him getting a new contract, as it would undermine him and the manager needs to always be the most important person in any dressing room, not least now with player power skyrocketing.

But this season is still one where he needs to properly convince.

Well said. The issue is the lack of progressive football. We aren't seeing signs of football that elevate the level of the squad, we are still very much dependent on our individual ability. The argument was always he would need better players - but when Klopp and Pep joined their respective teams, even though the players weren't good enough to win, the football they were going for was very evident. They then signed the players which turned that football into trophies. We are still very much a pragmatic team under him, regardless of what some say. A team with our resources etc. shouldn't have to sit back and counter against any team that can play football, shouldn't have to look laboured and predictable in our passing and movement, shouldn't have a terrible, unorganised press. These are all issues that are specific to coaching and management, not calibre of player.

Either way - very big season for him, if he gets Sancho and Varane there is simply no more excuses.
 
I don't think that's true at all. I think it's because he's not looked like he's a tactically progressive manager who can read games as they go and react quickly and proactively. And people are waiting to see if he has that within him, to show courage and transmit that to his team and elevate it beyond the sum of its parts (which is what great managers do, even before they get their big breaks in management). He still seems to me to be conservative and reactive, despite the talk by him and the club. The man management side has been great, the atmosphere has been majorly improved, but the football is still not at a level and I keep thinking about how much of a difference Bruno has made through his extraordinary stats.

Sticking with him for the season made sense given the incremental progress (points on the board, goals scored and conceded, home record, cup runs, etc) we've been making along with the improvement in feeling around the club. And it would have been a strange thing to go into the season with him without him getting a new contract, as it would undermine him and the manager needs to always be the most important person in any dressing room, not least now with player power skyrocketing.

But this season is still one where he needs to properly convince.
If that is the case, then what does that say for the 18 other managers in the league last season, or the 17 other managers the season before? Even if it is true, and tbh I don't believe it is to the extent that you hold it to be, does it actually matter? At the top level, man management goes a heck of a long way further towards having sustained success than tactical acumen does. Just look at Pep's CL record, and compare it to Zidane's: which one would you rather have? If the likes of Sancho and Varane are tempted and persuaded by the project we have (of which Ole is absolutely the sole visionary of, btw) then quite frankly who the feck are we to poo poo it? Even the very best tactical managers need the tools to ensure their systems work. Klopp's Liverpool were going nowhere and were reaching their plateau of 4th until fate intervened and Barca gave them £150m for Coutinho, which was reinvested into Alisson, VVD, and Fabinho, to add to their clever purchase of Salah, and to a lesser extent Mane (I say lesser extent, because to me, he was an obvious player to get, and I couldn't believe how many on here were turning their noses up at him when we were linked the season before). Yet, for all the good that Klopp has done, when just one or two of those important cogs were missing, his team went to absolute shit without them in circumstances that were much less trying for his team than they were for others (of which we are the best example of).

The fact of the matter is, before Ole came in to the role, we finished outside of the top 4 more often than we did in it. Our record since SAF left in the league was: 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd. Those teams were much better than the one Ole had up until this summer. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise on that, surely? They also had managers who had much better track records than Ole. LvG was fresh off guiding Holland to the World Cup semi final in 2014, and Jose had won the title at Chelsea just one year before he joined. There was little sign of both being past it, yet the basket case that we are, we excentuated their faults and they were both gone at the point Ole is now. And Ole is the only manager who has sustained a respectable league position, despite arguably having the weakest squad of the post-SAF era at the time he started his first full season (that they are now seen as a respectable Utd side, is down to him and his coaching staff improving the like of Shaw, Rashford, McFred, and Martial).

Now, let's consider Ole. First summer he had in the job, he took a sledgehammer to the squad selling or letting go of Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia, Darmian, Fellaini (6 months earlier). In return, he brought in 3 players: AWB, Maguire, James (followed by Bruno in January) and brought through Greenwood and Williams. It was a massive risk to go into that season without strengthening the midfield and attack when our most expensive striker and arguably best midfielder left without being replaced. When Ole came in Fred and Shaw were borderline joke figures on here. Rashford and Martial were squad players. The likes of DDG and Pogba wanted to leave. And because we didn't get replacements for the players who left, we had to put our faith in the likes of Williams and Greenwood who had the sum total of 2 appearances in the first team at the time. The fact that, that squad, which was arguably the weakest Utd squad in the PL era, was able to eke out Top 4 was a credit to the management team (no doubt helped by Bruno - but then, you have to consider, if Ole didn't already have his system in place, then no matter how good Bruno was, he wouldn't have had the influence he had from day one without it). That squad was not considered Top 4 quality at the time, and it was borne out in the BBC's pundits predictions that year, where I think it was only 3 out 24 pundits who had us in the Top 4 that season. It was horribly imbalanced, and it still was the season after. With the same 4-5 glaring holes still not filled until 2 seasons after they were first highlighted.

Let's consider that second season. We had a) the most number of games during project restart and the resumption of European football; b) we had the shortest break between the seasons starting; c) we had the least amount of rest between games out of every team in the league (and within Europe); d) we had the least rest period during the Xmas break; & e) we had a shockingly shit window. a) to b) ensured that we also had a poor start to the season, where we had to catch up to everyone else, while the poor window was one where we didn't improve our starting XI (other than Cavani - who didn't join up with the team until October/November and was then MIA due to injury/suspension for 2 months). If someone told you that we would be 2nd when the season started, you wouldn't have believed them, but we did, And it was under this manager during the most challenging of circumstances. Better managers, with a better recent track record than Ole, who also had better squads, didn't do as well as we did last year.

He's also improved the likes of Martial, Shaw, Rashford, McTominay - all of whom have had their career-best seasons under him. He got a tune out of Fred when so many had written him off. He also got Pogba onside despite all his issues (and he also had his career-best performances under Ole). A poor manager doesn't do that, and I'd wager that he has in fact got us performing to more than sum of our parts for large portions of his reign. The issue is that as it is a young squad, it is prone to peaks and troughs in form.

We badly needed a window like the one we're looking to have now, where our starting XI was improved, rather than just adding more squad filler. Especially after Chelsea blew everyone away with Havertz, Werner, Silva, et al. People complain about Ole's use of subs, but when you look at the bench, where are the options? When he does try and rotate, he still has to bring them on because the players who have come in have tended to shit the bed. If we get Varane, Sancho and a DM this summer, you will see a marked change in our use of subs, I'm sure. Sancho coming in means one of Martial or Greenwood will be on the bench more often than not. Varane coming in means Lindelof is a bench and squad player. And a DM means Fred or McTominay are similarly, squad players. Ole trusts those players I've named. He doesn't trust many of the others who have tended to be on the bench. Either because they are unreliable (Bailly) or too green (Williams) or a bit of both (Axel).

We'll see where we end up this season, but considering his track record of the past two years with an inferior set of players, and an imbalanced squad, I'd back him to do better than what a lot of people on this forum are expecting. The expectations will rise, and understandably so, but the means of achieving that success will be much more readily available to him when previously, they simply hadn't been.
 
Judge him after we sign Sancho and Varane. Everyone know those two positions winger and CB were the least areas we needed last summer and we didn't sign any of those two positions and yet we still finished 2nd with 74 points with Cavani missing lot of matches. I expect huge improvement with those two and help us to challenge the league, of course if he can't do it then we can start question Ole. Winning the league probably depends on whether we can sign top class midfielder (if we don't sell anyone) but both Varane and Sancho quality is enough to rise fans expectation to challenging the league.
 
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Judge him after we sign Sancho and Varane. Everyone know those two positions winger and CB were the least areas we needed last summer and we didn't sign any of those two positions and yet we still finished 2nd with 74 points with Cavani missing lot of matches. I expect huge improvement with those two and help us to challenge the league, of course if he can't do it then we can start question Ole. Winning the league probably depends on whether we can sign top class midfielder but both Varane and Sancho quality is enough to rise fans expectation to challenging the league.
Let's wait till Ole has signed 11 players for the starting XI, he should have the chance to build his team.
 
Let's wait till Ole has signed 11 players for the starting XI, he should have the chance to build his team.

A dead team requires a new team. It's not rocket science to understand which ones are deadwood and which ones are not deadwood after being given many years of chances.
 
Worst news of the summer. United board choose mediocrity to continue.
 
Let's wait till Ole has signed 11 players for the starting XI, he should have the chance to build his team.

He already has. Only players he hasn't signed or given a contract extension to in our first eleven are Shaw and Fred, and I'm sure that'll be in the pipeline this season.

There's no more rebuilding job status, that's gone now. This is Ole's team and whatever it achieves is a direct reflection on him as a manager.
 
Let's consider that second season. We had a) the most number of games during project restart and the resumption of European football; b) we had the shortest break between the seasons starting; c) we had the least amount of rest between games out of every team in the league (and within Europe); d) we had the least rest period during the Xmas break; & e) we had a shockingly shit window. a) to b) ensured that we also had a poor start to the season, where we had to catch up to everyone else, while the poor window was one where we didn't improve our starting XI (other than Cavani - who didn't join up with the team until October/November and was then MIA due to injury/suspension for 2 months). If someone told you that we would be 2nd when the season started, you wouldn't have believed them, but we did, And it was under this manager during the most challenging of circumstances. Better managers, with a better recent track record than Ole, who also had better squads, didn't do as well as we did last year.
Great post.

Add to that both Ole and Maguire stating that there was no time to work on or train new tactics. Training sessions were centered around recuperation from the preceding game and preparation for the next.
Let's wait till Ole has signed 11 players for the starting XI, he should have the chance to build his team.
Let's strawman a strawman, strawman. Strawman!
 
Like I said, the issue with that argument is that any manager can be made to look like shit

Klopp - lost to Atletico in CL, Wolves x 2, WHU, WBA in FA Cup, Southampton, Villa, Aston Villa, Arsenal in LC, Sevilla in EL. That's more than 50% of their exits as they've been eliminated to similar budget teams on 6 occasions. That's a worse ratio than us.

Not saying that Klopp is a worse manager than Ole (before you take this conversation on that tangent), but this is just one of the many ridiculous inferences you'll arrive at when you look at the teams most big teams lose to in cup competitions.

The initial argument on that was that Ole keeps bottling up. If the club is investing heavily this year then that had to change. Klopp won a league title and a CL title with Liverpool. So honestly I can't see why he keeps popping up into arguments to defend someone who till now had been a serial loser.

Ole must deliver
 
He already has. Only players he hasn't signed or given a contract extension to in our first eleven are Shaw and Fred, and I'm sure that'll be in the pipeline this season.

There's no more rebuilding job status, that's gone now. This is Ole's team and whatever it achieves is a direct reflection on him as a manager.
Sorry, I forgot the white text.
 
There were plenty of signs that he could step up early in his career. His performances with our reserves were drawing plenty of plaudits on this very same forum back in the late noughties/early 10s. He then broke Rosenborg's monopoly when he went to Molde and when he returned from Cardiff he rebuilt the team and set it up for the next man to come in and win the league (which he absolutely would have done if not for Utd coming calling in 2018).

Let's face it, the reason why so many people don't think he's good is because of one bad experience at Cardiff. It's tainted perceptions of him in the wider media to the extent that for many of them, they just can't bring themselves to give him anything but the most backhanded of compliments. Understandable, if Cardiff was the model he followed here, or if those same results and patterns persisted but the fact of the matter is we haven't looked that way for over 18 months and the vast majority of his time at the club.

Great managers have had relegations on their CVs. SAF was one. Benitez another. I'm not saying Ole is even on Benitez' level, but he's done enough in his time here with a subpar and young squad to be given the benefit of the doubt for this season.

I don't think that there are anyone who doesn't like Ole. Even Roy Keane likes him and he acts like a pitbull with rabies whose been mistreated for all his life and has been left to starve for 3 days.

What people like myself tend to point out are his weaknesses. That include his lack of tactics, his insistence of surrounding himself with experienced coaches (we spent months not being able to defend a set piece), his inability to take tough decisions around certain players and the fact that for most of the time United are a pain to watch. Most of us understand Ole's strengths as well. He understand the club and he's a superb man manager. Its not all bad around him.

The argument here is about fine margins and that is whether he's good enough for Manchester United. In the past he could hide under the excuse of the club's inability of financially backing him. This seems going out of the window this summer. In such circumstances he simply has to deliver. Its as simple as that.
 
If that is the case, then what does that say for the 18 other managers in the league last season, or the 17 other managers the season before? Even if it is true, and tbh I don't believe it is to the extent that you hold it to be, does it actually matter? At the top level, man management goes a heck of a long way further towards having sustained success than tactical acumen does. Just look at Pep's CL record, and compare it to Zidane's: which one would you rather have? If the likes of Sancho and Varane are tempted and persuaded by the project we have (of which Ole is absolutely the sole visionary of, btw) then quite frankly who the feck are we to poo poo it? Even the very best tactical managers need the tools to ensure their systems work. Klopp's Liverpool were going nowhere and were reaching their plateau of 4th until fate intervened and Barca gave them £150m for Coutinho, which was reinvested into Alisson, VVD, and Fabinho, to add to their clever purchase of Salah, and to a lesser extent Mane (I say lesser extent, because to me, he was an obvious player to get, and I couldn't believe how many on here were turning their noses up at him when we were linked the season before). Yet, for all the good that Klopp has done, when just one or two of those important cogs were missing, his team went to absolute shit without them in circumstances that were much less trying for his team than they were for others (of which we are the best example of).

The fact of the matter is, before Ole came in to the role, we finished outside of the top 4 more often than we did in it. Our record since SAF left in the league was: 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd. Those teams were much better than the one Ole had up until this summer. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise on that, surely? They also had managers who had much better track records than Ole. LvG was fresh off guiding Holland to the World Cup semi final in 2014, and Jose had won the title at Chelsea just one year before he joined. There was little sign of both being past it, yet the basket case that we are, we excentuated their faults and they were both gone at the point Ole is now. And Ole is the only manager who has sustained a respectable league position, despite arguably having the weakest squad of the post-SAF era at the time he started his first full season (that they are now seen as a respectable Utd side, is down to him and his coaching staff improving the like of Shaw, Rashford, McFred, and Martial).

Now, let's consider Ole. First summer he had in the job, he took a sledgehammer to the squad selling or letting go of Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia, Darmian, Fellaini (6 months earlier). In return, he brought in 3 players: AWB, Maguire, James (followed by Bruno in January) and brought through Greenwood and Williams. It was a massive risk to go into that season without strengthening the midfield and attack when our most expensive striker and arguably best midfielder left without being replaced. When Ole came in Fred and Shaw were borderline joke figures on here. Rashford and Martial were squad players. The likes of DDG and Pogba wanted to leave. And because we didn't get replacements for the players who left, we had to put our faith in the likes of Williams and Greenwood who had the sum total of 2 appearances in the first team at the time. The fact that, that squad, which was arguably the weakest Utd squad in the PL era, was able to eke out Top 4 was a credit to the management team (no doubt helped by Bruno - but then, you have to consider, if Ole didn't already have his system in place, then no matter how good Bruno was, he wouldn't have had the influence he had from day one without it). That squad was not considered Top 4 quality at the time, and it was borne out in the BBC's pundits predictions that year, where I think it was only 3 out 24 pundits who had us in the Top 4 that season. It was horribly imbalanced, and it still was the season after. With the same 4-5 glaring holes still not filled until 2 seasons after they were first highlighted.

Let's consider that second season. We had a) the most number of games during project restart and the resumption of European football; b) we had the shortest break between the seasons starting; c) we had the least amount of rest between games out of every team in the league (and within Europe); d) we had the least rest period during the Xmas break; & e) we had a shockingly shit window. a) to b) ensured that we also had a poor start to the season, where we had to catch up to everyone else, while the poor window was one where we didn't improve our starting XI (other than Cavani - who didn't join up with the team until October/November and was then MIA due to injury/suspension for 2 months). If someone told you that we would be 2nd when the season started, you wouldn't have believed them, but we did, And it was under this manager during the most challenging of circumstances. Better managers, with a better recent track record than Ole, who also had better squads, didn't do as well as we did last year.

He's also improved the likes of Martial, Shaw, Rashford, McTominay - all of whom have had their career-best seasons under him. He got a tune out of Fred when so many had written him off. He also got Pogba onside despite all his issues (and he also had his career-best performances under Ole). A poor manager doesn't do that, and I'd wager that he has in fact got us performing to more than sum of our parts for large portions of his reign. The issue is that as it is a young squad, it is prone to peaks and troughs in form.

We badly needed a window like the one we're looking to have now, where our starting XI was improved, rather than just adding more squad filler. Especially after Chelsea blew everyone away with Havertz, Werner, Silva, et al. People complain about Ole's use of subs, but when you look at the bench, where are the options? When he does try and rotate, he still has to bring them on because the players who have come in have tended to shit the bed. If we get Varane, Sancho and a DM this summer, you will see a marked change in our use of subs, I'm sure. Sancho coming in means one of Martial or Greenwood will be on the bench more often than not. Varane coming in means Lindelof is a bench and squad player. And a DM means Fred or McTominay are similarly, squad players. Ole trusts those players I've named. He doesn't trust many of the others who have tended to be on the bench. Either because they are unreliable (Bailly) or too green (Williams) or a bit of both (Axel).

We'll see where we end up this season, but considering his track record of the past two years with an inferior set of players, and an imbalanced squad, I'd back him to do better than what a lot of people on this forum are expecting. The expectations will rise, and understandably so, but the means of achieving that success will be much more readily available to him when previously, they simply hadn't been.
Great & fair post.

The only thing I’d argue with you on though is the bench & substitutions part. No matter how weak bench players may be, there are times when you still have to throw them on and try to change games. If the players don’t have an impact that’s okay it’s not his fault but sticking with the same starting 11 for the majority of the game and then that not having a better impact would certainly put the blame on him.

We all are aware of many games where his in-game management wasn’t up to par but for me the Europa final was a huge red flag.

Anyways, like you mentioned, now the bench options are better but it still remains to be seen how and when he uses said options. More importantly, if he can make other in game changes such as change tactics wisely as well.

Obviously many of us including myself don’t agree with such a long contract but I can see the understanding behind it. I think the idea is to let Ole grow into the role and be here on a long term basis. Somewhat like how SAF was given a lot of time to make the position his own for decades to come. And if Ole can learn from his mistakes and show concrete+positive signs then I would prefer this strategy our club is opting for rather than hire a manager no matter how good he may be. He will most likely leave after a couple seasons having made short term changes to our team that may be unwise in the long term and that isn’t the way our club likes to do things.
 
Agreed.



Pochettino transformed Southampton, and built a very exciting side that overperformed based on talent and resources available. At Tottenham, he also came very close, built a very strong team and helped propel many players to great heights like Kane and Son Heung-min. We can see how much Tottenham are regretting their decision to sack him and how they've fallen backwards from the accomplishments he brought to that football club. At PSG, he already has 2 trophies in half a season and has a phenomenal win percentage rate. Of course now he has frightening resources available, so we can fully expect him to make use of these resources.

Compare this to what Ole has spent at United. A very concerningly high amount, and what has he delivered in return? Knocked out of every cup competition in familiar manners, being outwitted by managers who quite frequently have fewer resources and lesser players available at their disposal. I appreciate that Ole represents this club with dignity and is well respected by the players, but there comes a time when it is not enough. The same mistakes persist. I am not saying to sack him, but why such a long contract before he gives us results? Let him earn it, we made this mistake time and again since Ferguson left us.
Firstly I don't think three years is a long contract.

Secondly we are seeing results on and off the field, a trophy is due obviously but no one can dispute that we are in a much better position now than when Ole joined.

Thirdly, Poch is not the Messiah, and managed to lead PSG to second in the league in one of the greatest under achievements in French football. Oh, and win absolutely nothing with Spurs.
 
Not straight at jumping in to being manager of the biggest club in the world you dont no, you have to prove yourself first, achieve something with a smaller team in a big League, thats the opportunity you get, unless you are an ex united player that is.
Like Pep did?
 
He has been a manager as long a time as Pep. If by now, he doesn't have the ability to implement a progressive style which can bring trophies, when will he learn to?

To put it into perspective - he's won 3 trophies in the over 11 years, the last of which came in 12/13. When you consider the level of competition he was competing in for the majority of his career - and his only exploit outside of that poor league led to being sacked, what exactly gives you hope that he is an elite manager?

Don't get me wrong - purely as a man manager, I think he's World class, but most top flight managers are head coaches too now - in that regard, I don't think he's nearly good enough. That being said, with the right coaches around him delegating responsibility, I think it could work, but that's obviously down to him and the board to be able to identify.
How are you judging his coaching ability? It is, probably, the one aspect of a manager's skillset that is most difficult to judge from the outside. You have no idea what goes on the training field and similarly what other managers can or can not do. What has been perfectly evident, however, is the immense improvement in Shaw, Rashford, Fred, Lindelof and McTominay, to name a few. But I guess that's not due to coaching, probably just a change in diet?
How is it unfair? He's won 3 trophies in 11 years. That's a very poor record for an 'elite' manager. Also, it's not as easy as saying he wasn't playing at a team that had the level to compete because the level of the league is was far lower.

Since then, he's joined United, we are still yet to amass a point tally anywhere near enough to win the PL and being knocked out of the cups consistently to inferior teams, despite him being here for over two years and spending a considerable amount of money. If that's the signs of a potential elite manager to you, all power to you, but it seems to be the ones who have faith in him that are the ones hoping rather than actually having a look at his career previously and what is currently transpiring at United as that is a very good way to judge a coaches' ability.

I still hope he succeeds of course, but I'm not holding my breath. Hopefully I'm wrong. Either way, this is a huge season for him, he's running out of excuses now, only so long we can keep throwing the 'time' excuse out there.


Can you honestly say that for the past two and a half seasons we've had the squad to win the PL?
I don't think that's true at all. I think it's because he's not looked like he's a tactically progressive manager who can read games as they go and react quickly and proactively. And people are waiting to see if he has that within him, to show courage and transmit that to his team and elevate it beyond the sum of its parts (which is what great managers do, even before they get their big breaks in management). He still seems to me to be conservative and reactive, despite the talk by him and the club. The man management side has been great, the atmosphere has been majorly improved, but the football is still not at a level and I keep thinking about how much of a difference Bruno has made through his extraordinary stats.

Sticking with him for the season made sense given the incremental progress (points on the board, goals scored and conceded, home record, cup runs, etc) we've been making along with the improvement in feeling around the club. And it would have been a strange thing to go into the season with him without him getting a new contract, as it would undermine him and the manager needs to always be the most important person in any dressing room, not least now with player power skyrocketing.

But this season is still one where he needs to properly convince.
If he is unable to read games how come we were the best team in the PL when it comes to comebacks? Is there a better measurement than that?

Or you are referring to the lost/drawn games and expect that just because you want to we must have won 100% of games?

Who is the best manager in the world for you? Pep? Why did he lose the CL final? He couldn't read and react quickly and proactively? Why did he lose against us several times?
Tuchel? Why did he got himself fired from PSG? Why did he lose against Bayern in the previous CL final?
Klopp? Why did he not react quickly and proactively to the CB injuries? Why did he lose all those finals in his first years at Liverpool?
 
More than 800 posts in less than 48 hours despite also being discussed in the performance thread. Yikes.

Knowing this forum, I'm sure that this thread is filled with positivity and reasonable takes. No need for me to double-check that hunch :D
 
I'm by no means Ole out but I don't see the point of this. It's not as if we have to protect Ole like he's an asset who could be stolen. Real and Barca aren't sniffing around, and I doubt Ole would be handing his CV out either.

I'm all for Ole being given a bit more time and another chance this season, but sooner or later he has to start winning. If at some point Ole is on the cliff edge again and there's a top manager available, Ole having a lengthy contract will only deter or delay the decision to let him go, by which time the top manager may be signed up by another club.

Edit: I suppose the counter argument is that this gives Ole some security, and incentive to blood some younger players, whereas running down his contract would put the pressure on and could lead to decisions which sacrifice the long term in favour of short term results.
 
How are you judging his coaching ability? It is, probably, the one aspect of a manager's skillset that is most difficult to judge from the outside. You have no idea what goes on the training field and similarly what other managers can or can not do. What has been perfectly evident, however, is the immense improvement in Shaw, Rashford, Fred, Lindelof and McTominay, to name a few. But I guess that's not due to coaching, probably just a change in diet?



Can you honestly say that for the past two and a half seasons we've had the squad to win the PL?

If he is unable to read games how come we were the best team in the PL when it comes to comebacks? Is there a better measurement than that?

Or you are referring to the lost/drawn games and expect that just because you want to we must have won 100% of games?

Who is the best manager in the world for you? Pep? Why did he lose the CL final? He couldn't read and react quickly and proactively? Why did he lose against us several times?
Tuchel? Why did he got himself fired from PSG? Why did he lose against Bayern in the previous CL final?
Klopp? Why did he not react quickly and proactively to the CB injuries? Why did he lose all those finals in his first years at Liverpool?


You judge a manager's coaching ability by the trophies they've won and their ability to implement a particular style. Approaching 3 years in and we are still a pragmatic team who struggle to break down low blocks and result in counter attacking against any decent side. Coupled with the fact that he hasn't won a trophy in like 7 years, despite playing in a very low quality league - and we can start to get an idea of the approach we'll have with Ole

That tweet is completely pointless, none of that matters when we haven't even been close to challenging in the league since he's joined. In fact, we've not even surpassed Jose's point total, despite having a far superior squad and both Liverpool and City not being as dominant as they were when Jose was around.

No, our squad was not good enough to win the league, but it was more than good enough to implement a more progressive style and accumulate more points than we did - whilst winning some form of silverware, none of which we have done, so far
 
It's very reasonable to expect a title challenge this season. That should be the least of our targets. We are talking about constant progress every season and a title challenge in the league is progress from last season where we got 2nd and not being close to the title. We have the squad for it (Varane included) and if you think we dont then we have surely spent the money that should have provided that squad. Klopp had spent a total of 354m before he won the title while we have currently spent 402m and counting. A title challenge is the least we should expect.

I was against the contract extension but I think its good now. Shows faith in Ole which can only help him and therefore help the team
 
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You judge a manager's coaching ability by the trophies they've won and their ability to implement a particular style. Approaching 3 years in and we are still a pragmatic team who struggle to break down low blocks and result in counter attacking against any decent side. Coupled with the fact that he hasn't won a trophy in like 7 years, despite playing in a very low quality league - and we can start to get an idea of the approach we'll have with Ole

That tweet is completely pointless, none of that matters when we haven't even been close to challenging in the league since he's joined. In fact, we've not even surpassed Jose's point total, despite having a far superior squad and both Liverpool and City not being as dominant as they were when Jose was around.

No, our squad was not good enough to win the league, but it was more than good enough to implement a more progressive style and accumulate more points than we did - whilst winning some form of silverware, none of which we have done, so far
So, judging by the trophies, Klopp should've been sacked after 3 seasons with Liverpool, right?

Interesting how we struggle to break down low blocks yet finished second and won more games against "lower level" clubs compared to previous years.

He hasn't won a trophy in a "very low quality league"? Are you sure about that?

As for your last sentence, that is your opinion which is completely not backed by facts, including the failure of Mourinho.
 
I can accept that people disagree on how long the extension should be, but I find it baffling that there are adults who didn't want us to extend the contract at all and "just wait things out". It shows not only a lack of understanding of how football works, but also how humans work.
 
Who is the best manager in the world for you? Pep? Why did he lose the CL final? He couldn't read and react quickly and proactively? Why did he lose against us several times?
Tuchel? Why did he got himself fired from PSG? Why did he lose against Bayern in the previous CL final?
Klopp? Why did he not react quickly and proactively to the CB injuries? Why did he lose all those finals in his first years at Liverpool?
Great post.. You enlighten a perspective many people seem to disregard.

I expect progress from last year, and that isn’t a small task:
  • PL: trophy race to the bitter end (at least april).
  • Tournament: trophy
  • Better play
With the addition of Sancho, Varane, a midfielder and eventually Trippier, our squad is good enough to achieve the above mentioned goals.

I’m positive and think Ole has what it takes to meet at least my expectations:)
 
So, judging by the trophies, Klopp should've been sacked after 3 seasons with Liverpool, right?

Interesting how we struggle to break down low blocks yet finished second and won more games against "lower level" clubs compared to previous years.

He hasn't won a trophy in a "very low quality league"? Are you sure about that?

As for your last sentence, that is your opinion which is completely not backed by facts, including the failure of Mourinho.

We finished second due to the level of other teams, our point tally has us 4th or 3rd most seasons, Chelsea under Tommy accumulated more points than us since his arrival, Liverpool with a whole 9 players to choose from all season were on our tails for a good part of the season.

Klopp shouldn't have been sacked as his progressive style was visible on the squad even when they had an absolute dog shite team, in 2 years he got them to a CL final, the next year won it. In the same time Klopp was afforded, Ole has finished second with lower points than a Jose who wasn't good enough finished on, got us knocked out of the CL as we couldn't best a team who came 12th in the Turkish league and got eliminated in the final of a b-tec European League, struggling to muster shots on target in over 2 hours of match time. The circumstances are not in any way comparable, the team Ole has 2 years into his tenure is superior to Klopp's too.

I never said he hasn't won a trophy in a poor league, so not sure what you're arguing. I simply stated 3 trophies in an extremely poor league, the last of which came 7 years ago for a supposed 'elite manager' is a laughable record. You can make as many excuses to try and justify that as you like, but a manager's requirement is to win silverware and if one has mustered 3 in a very poor league, managing the same amount of time as fecking Pep, you need to wonder if we have the right manager to compete with the Pep's of the World.

How is Mourinho's Point tally not backed by facts or my opinion? That's reality. He had an inferior team and finished on considerably more points than Ole's best season, despite being here for less time and Jose was nowhere near good enough.
 
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If that is the case, then what does that say for the 18 other managers in the league last season, or the 17 other managers the season before? Even if it is true, and tbh I don't believe it is to the extent that you hold it to be, does it actually matter? At the top level, man management goes a heck of a long way further towards having sustained success than tactical acumen does. Just look at Pep's CL record, and compare it to Zidane's: which one would you rather have? If the likes of Sancho and Varane are tempted and persuaded by the project we have (of which Ole is absolutely the sole visionary of, btw) then quite frankly who the feck are we to poo poo it? Even the very best tactical managers need the tools to ensure their systems work. Klopp's Liverpool were going nowhere and were reaching their plateau of 4th until fate intervened and Barca gave them £150m for Coutinho, which was reinvested into Alisson, VVD, and Fabinho, to add to their clever purchase of Salah, and to a lesser extent Mane (I say lesser extent, because to me, he was an obvious player to get, and I couldn't believe how many on here were turning their noses up at him when we were linked the season before). Yet, for all the good that Klopp has done, when just one or two of those important cogs were missing, his team went to absolute shit without them in circumstances that were much less trying for his team than they were for others (of which we are the best example of).

The fact of the matter is, before Ole came in to the role, we finished outside of the top 4 more often than we did in it. Our record since SAF left in the league was: 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd. Those teams were much better than the one Ole had up until this summer. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise on that, surely? They also had managers who had much better track records than Ole. LvG was fresh off guiding Holland to the World Cup semi final in 2014, and Jose had won the title at Chelsea just one year before he joined. There was little sign of both being past it, yet the basket case that we are, we excentuated their faults and they were both gone at the point Ole is now. And Ole is the only manager who has sustained a respectable league position, despite arguably having the weakest squad of the post-SAF era at the time he started his first full season (that they are now seen as a respectable Utd side, is down to him and his coaching staff improving the like of Shaw, Rashford, McFred, and Martial).

Now, let's consider Ole. First summer he had in the job, he took a sledgehammer to the squad selling or letting go of Sanchez, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia, Darmian, Fellaini (6 months earlier). In return, he brought in 3 players: AWB, Maguire, James (followed by Bruno in January) and brought through Greenwood and Williams. It was a massive risk to go into that season without strengthening the midfield and attack when our most expensive striker and arguably best midfielder left without being replaced. When Ole came in Fred and Shaw were borderline joke figures on here. Rashford and Martial were squad players. The likes of DDG and Pogba wanted to leave. And because we didn't get replacements for the players who left, we had to put our faith in the likes of Williams and Greenwood who had the sum total of 2 appearances in the first team at the time. The fact that, that squad, which was arguably the weakest Utd squad in the PL era, was able to eke out Top 4 was a credit to the management team (no doubt helped by Bruno - but then, you have to consider, if Ole didn't already have his system in place, then no matter how good Bruno was, he wouldn't have had the influence he had from day one without it). That squad was not considered Top 4 quality at the time, and it was borne out in the BBC's pundits predictions that year, where I think it was only 3 out 24 pundits who had us in the Top 4 that season. It was horribly imbalanced, and it still was the season after. With the same 4-5 glaring holes still not filled until 2 seasons after they were first highlighted.

Let's consider that second season. We had a) the most number of games during project restart and the resumption of European football; b) we had the shortest break between the seasons starting; c) we had the least amount of rest between games out of every team in the league (and within Europe); d) we had the least rest period during the Xmas break; & e) we had a shockingly shit window. a) to b) ensured that we also had a poor start to the season, where we had to catch up to everyone else, while the poor window was one where we didn't improve our starting XI (other than Cavani - who didn't join up with the team until October/November and was then MIA due to injury/suspension for 2 months). If someone told you that we would be 2nd when the season started, you wouldn't have believed them, but we did, And it was under this manager during the most challenging of circumstances. Better managers, with a better recent track record than Ole, who also had better squads, didn't do as well as we did last year.

He's also improved the likes of Martial, Shaw, Rashford, McTominay - all of whom have had their career-best seasons under him. He got a tune out of Fred when so many had written him off. He also got Pogba onside despite all his issues (and he also had his career-best performances under Ole). A poor manager doesn't do that, and I'd wager that he has in fact got us performing to more than sum of our parts for large portions of his reign. The issue is that as it is a young squad, it is prone to peaks and troughs in form.

We badly needed a window like the one we're looking to have now, where our starting XI was improved, rather than just adding more squad filler. Especially after Chelsea blew everyone away with Havertz, Werner, Silva, et al. People complain about Ole's use of subs, but when you look at the bench, where are the options? When he does try and rotate, he still has to bring them on because the players who have come in have tended to shit the bed. If we get Varane, Sancho and a DM this summer, you will see a marked change in our use of subs, I'm sure. Sancho coming in means one of Martial or Greenwood will be on the bench more often than not. Varane coming in means Lindelof is a bench and squad player. And a DM means Fred or McTominay are similarly, squad players. Ole trusts those players I've named. He doesn't trust many of the others who have tended to be on the bench. Either because they are unreliable (Bailly) or too green (Williams) or a bit of both (Axel).

We'll see where we end up this season, but considering his track record of the past two years with an inferior set of players, and an imbalanced squad, I'd back him to do better than what a lot of people on this forum are expecting. The expectations will rise, and understandably so, but the means of achieving that success will be much more readily available to him when previously, they simply hadn't been.

That was a lot to dig into. Let's just say that my view isn't so favourable, where everything is counted to his benefit, such as LVG being a top class manager, he wasn't then, and it's questionable whether the squads previously were better than what Ole had - for one thing, you don't want a bloated squad with overpaid players as it's harder to man manage. Ole sold some, and lost Herrera whom he'd presumably kept given the choice, as his preferred functional midfield was Herrera - Matic - Pogba.

I still think the point stands: have we progressed to playing actual attacking football? And that summer you mention where he took a risk by not strengthening midfield, well, was that a smart decision? An injury to Pogba and we were pretty shoddy for a long while. That smaller squad led to him running players into the ground and mis-managing their fitness (my biggest gripe with him to date).

I'm not waiting for him to win the league this year or even win a cup, but to see a team that consistently wins at home, gets to a respectable 80 point figure, and looks comfortable in a number of games.
 
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