Well, it does, actually. That's why SAF wasn't sacked early in his tenure. Turned out pretty well.
Ole in? Some surprising stats that reveal another side to Solskjaer's management performance
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
I think 162 games takes Klopp up to around the start of 2018-19. He got 4th on the last day two seasons in a row. So its no surprise Ole has a similar win precentage up to that point.
You literally said Liverpool fans were ready to turn their back on Klopp and calling for him to be sacked around this stage.
It was definitely not at the exact same stage, as my micro-analysis pointed out by showing how his Liverpool team was comfortably better by then than we are right now. It can't be a few games ahead of the same stage, because that puts us at the start of Liverpool's CL-winning campaign. It can't be a few games before the same stage, because that puts us halfway through their CL runner-up campaign.
And it can't have been a full season before that either, because Liverpool had a very good 2016/17 (they were within touching distance of the top until January and comfortably in the top four all season).
So I can only imagine we're talking about the end of 2015/16, a point when Klopp was eight months into the job and lost a European final. (Or maybe earlier this year when they were melting down, at which point Klopp had been in the job twice as long as Solskjaer. So not remotely close to the same stage).
So yeah, either misremembering or deliberately misrepresenting as I said. That last line suggests it's the latter.
Stats prove everything unless they indicate Ole is decent. Then stats are meaningless.
Why can’t some of you get behind the manager and the team you profess to support? it is genuinely bizarre the need for anger and negativity from some here.
Why can’t some of you get behind the manager and the team you profess to support? it is genuinely bizarre the need for anger and negativity from some here.
I'm awaiting an incredible run of form to 97 and 99 points in the next two seasons then, if he stays as manager.
Because people can spot patterns, which show them that it's very unlikely United are ever going to win anything meaningful with the current manager.
It matters when trying to judge the likelihood of a manager being able to turn it around, even if there are no guarantees.
Yawn. The strawman is being brought out in full force of late.
‘profess to support’
‘get behind the manager’
Ole bingo strikes again. You can support the team whilst thinking the manager may not be up to taking the team a further step, acting as if they’re mutually exclusive is ridiculous.
Because many of us feel we need a manager who knows how to get the best out of this squad NOW, let me also say that we also aren't wanting to lose on Sunday just so he can get sacked sooner and don't like being branded as such. Fully supporting the team but it's ridiculous the garbage that was spouted today about the coaching being fantastic when it quite clearly isn't at all
There’s fishing for bites and then there’s this, you’re just emptying the chum into shark infested waters.
Fine margins innit
Oh feck me.
Games leading up to 162:
162: Liverpool 3 - 0 Southampton
161: Liverpool 3 - 2 PSG
160: Spurs 1 - 2 Liverpool
159: Leicester 1 - 2 Liverpool
158: Liverpool 1 - 0 Brighton
157: Palace 0 - 2 Liverpool
156: Liverpool 4 - West Ham
That's how they started that season, with 7 wins from 7 in all competitions. We've started with 5 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses, including a loss to Young Boys Bern. We've been playing like shit, Liverpool were looking like a team that could get close to 100 points.
But let's go back a little further, from Feb to the end of the previous season Liverpool amassed 25 points in 13 games, whilst getting to a Champions League final, beating City twice in the process. In our final 13 games from last season we took 19 points.
Not a case of may not though is it? Many have already decided Ole is not a Klopp, a Guardiola or a Tuchel and have deemed him not good enough (read trendy enough) even though a plethora of stats and records indicate Ole is more than holding his own.
Likewise I haven’t suggested that supporting the team and doubting the manager are mutually exclusive but there is such hyperbole, aggression and negativity around Ole, especially at the moment and the season is so young - you have to question why some here bother with football, if not just to be deliberately negative and miserable.
I didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to try and compare Ole and Klopp this season given as they got 97 points and won the Champions League in the equivalent third season. I think it will die off fairly soon now though, we’ve already lost more league games than they did and can only drop 7 more points to match their points total.
How is anyone still clinging to the idea Ole is the next SAF, Klopp or whoever else. I haven’t worked out whether to laugh or feel sorry for them.
How is anyone still clinging to the idea Ole is the next SAF, Klopp or whoever else. I haven’t worked out whether to laugh or feel sorry for them.
No they don't, because at this stage (162 games) Klopp had taken Liverpool to a CL final and started the league looking utterly unstoppable, with 7 wins from the first 7 and some incredible football. That season carried on just how it looked from the outset and finished with a 97 point total and a CL title.
It's night and day. We look utterly horrendous, nearly every single person that backs Ole to the hilt admit we've no chance of a title challenge and the CL, forget it.
Unless of course we ignore this season so far, and pretend we have any chance of emulating anything like what Klopp was well on his way to doing at this juncture in his Liverpool career. Oh and let's also ignore Klopp took over a team that finished the previous season 8th on 60 points and had spent a shit tonne less money at this stage.
I can’t comment because I pay no attention to Liverpool. Or any other team for that matter. As you’re so impressed by them maybe you should consider switching allegiances and supporting Liverpool instead. Might not be so bad for your blood pressure.
How do you even respond to a post that appears as though it was written by a 12 year old?
I wouldn't worry there is clearly still some who need more time to see he's way out of his depth
No, I quite understand that and it’s a fair point. I didn’t say anything about wanting the team to lose, but the absolute desire for negativity get very wearing.
Id also just point out that the opinion of the coaches is a subjective point. It’s dependant of what is expected of them, and your expectations, my expectation and Oles expectations could be 3 totally different things.
It’s like rubbing salt in a wound comparing OGS to Klopp. I don’t know why anyone would do it aside from pure masochism or wummery.
Because we want our team to succeed and operate at the full potential. Maybe you’re happy with mediocrity or you’re just another paid Ole shill on here
I know you are, but what am I?
Seriously though, critique the post not the poster. I don’t see the issue with my response. I thought this was a discussion forum, where we can debate differing viewpoints. I apologise if I offend you by not agreeing wholeheartedly with your bleak assessment of the season so far.
I've been behind Ole and the team since his appointment, but the recent performances are extremely alarming. Rashford coming back is massive for the team, we've look too passive, he will bring and injection to our team.
Lets see how we are come end of the season. Ole still needs more time, the first post proves it.
Lets see how we are come end of the season. Ole still needs more time, the first post proves it.
that’s exactly what I did.
if comparing managers another stat is Klopp has won the Premier league title and Champions league with Liverpool
Oles won nothing in 3 seasons at United.
Oles won nothing in 3 seasons at United.
How can we give more time to someone who still hasn't a style of play after nearly 3 years in charge
We can’t win every game, that’s just a fact of life. Sometimes the opponent is better, you get lucky calls and unlucky calls. Sometimes we are just shite. It happens. But I don’t believe we’re consistently shite, and the stat in OP proves it.
I don’t happen to think losing a European final 19-20 on sudden death penalties, finishing 2nd in the league or keeping pace at the top of the table this time around in mediocre.
And who gets paid to support their team? That sounds like an excellent gig…..
Maybe my opinion is different to yours, and just maybe it’s a little bit silly to take that difference so personally?
“You don’t agree with what I say about our crap manager so go support another team”
Solid points
“You don’t agree with what I say about our crap manager so go support another team”
Solid points
Then when I say that I don’t know how to reply to that, he has the cheek to post “I thought this was a discussion forum, where we can debate differing viewpoints.” Erm, you said stats back up Ole vs Klopp, I showed they do not and you told me to go support another team
“I’m going to quote you sarcastically in an attempt to belittle you because you disagree with me”“You don’t agree with what I say about our crap manager so go support another team”
Solid points
Good chat. Thanks for coming
Then when I say that I don’t know how to reply to that, he has the cheek to post “I thought this was a discussion forum, where we can debate differing viewpoints.” Erm, you said stats back up Ole vs Klopp, I showed they do not and you told me to go support another team
Telling someone go support another team is honestly the most disgusting response I ever see on here, and it's only ever thrown around by people militantly following behind the manager.
Have you watched the team over the past 6 months? started bad and is getting worse whilst the 'top teams' are getting better and better.
Liverpool, Chelsea and City a million years ahead of us and with our squad they shouldn't be.
Klopp got 90 odd points in his third season and won the CL...that's not happening for Ole this season is it.
“I’m going to quote you sarcastically in an attempt to belittle you because you disagree with me”
Good chat. Thanks for coming
I don't get it? We are all United fans on here. We all want the team to be the best it can be. People think we could have a better manager, and compare him to other managers to point out where we're going wrong, how does that equate to thinking they should support another club?
I didn’t say stats back up Ole vs Klopp. I said they show he’s holding his own, generally. Stop twisting my words to give you something to fake outrage about.Then when I say that I don’t know how to reply to that, he has the cheek to post “I thought this was a discussion forum, where we can debate differing viewpoints.” Erm, you said stats back up Ole vs Klopp, I showed they do not and you told me to go support another team
Once again, no, they generally don’t. Tuchel had a CL in 6 months, Pep had a PL in his second season, Klopp had taken over a worse team, spent less, reached a CL final, had a much better end to the season and actually smashed this third full season out of the park. At this point (162 games) his trajectory was pointed almost vertical, you knew from the off he was in a title battle.
We had a shit end of the season, and a worse start to this season. To match Klopp from that season we now have to drop just 7 more points all season, we’ve dropped 13 after just 8 games
I mention Klopp, Tuchel, & Pep as they are his contemporaries producing better performances, in the same league. Not trendy, just proven to be far more astute managers.
By plethora of stats, you’ll lean heavily on the Klopp comparison which without context is still iffy but I’m not sure where the £400mil in investment fits in during that period. He certainly didn’t turn a 9th place team into European champions & let’s not even compare his accolades to Peps. ‘more than holds his own’ indeed.
It’s a rather aggressive tactic to throw around words like hyperbole when people question the management. It’s also disingenuous to say the season is so young when we’re a game off 1/4 in & questions have been raised long before this season.
The funniest thing about those calling out people who ‘profess to support’ the club is that the reasons for wanting OgS to remain in charge are things like ‘he holds his own’ & other managers records up to this point indicate that he might do something, never what he has done. It’s similar to Gary Neville saying the club should have the ‘best in class’ from top to bottom but should persist with Ole because well, ‘he’s Ole’. I don’t see why anyone would care what other managers did at other clubs in a similar amount of games under different circumstances, it’s irrelevant. As has been pointed out above Liverpool clearly went up a gear at the point where OgS is regressing.
I read this as realism not negativity.Once again, no, they generally don’t. Tuchel had a CL in 6 months, Pep had a PL in his second season, Klopp had taken over a worse team, spent less, reached a CL final, had a much better end to the season and actually smashed this third full season out of the park. At this point (162 games) his trajectory was pointed almost vertical, you knew from the off he was in a title battle.
We had a shit end of the season, and a worse start to this season. To match Klopp from that season we now have to drop just 7 more points all season, we’ve dropped 13 after just 8 games
We can't win every game, but 5 in 11 against the teams we've played is very poor.
Also, this "European final" can't be spun into a plus point for OGS. He started in the Champions League group, failed. Dropped into the Europa League with the best team, failed.
Being 5 points off Chelsea and beneath Brighton with the 8 PL fixtures we've played is not good either.
Reminds me of some other stats I saw this week: 'Average points per match of Dutch Barcelona coaches in La Liga'
The guy who posted this works for Opta. So the fact that there was a 2 point per win system back in the day is taken into account.
The guy who posted this works for Opta. So the fact that there was a 2 point per win system back in the day is taken into account.