Oldest strike “partnership” in the history of football?

Although they both aged, but i don't see any problem with their workrate or intensity. They both look fit and work as hard as any forward City and Liverpool have. Certainly work harder than Kane.

My problem, as said on other thread, is their partnership. Both are too similar: good/great finishers, but average passers and creativity. One of Ronaldo/Cavani/Greenwood/Rashford paired with Bruno/Sancho would make more sense.
 
Isotope said:
Although they both aged, but i don't see any problem with their workrate or intensity. They both look fit and work as hard as any forward City and Liverpool have. Certainly work harder than Kane.

My problem, as said on other thread, is their partnership. Both are too similar: good/great finishers, but average passers and creativity. One of Ronaldo/Cavani/Greenwood/Rashford paired with Bruno/Sancho would make more sense.
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This is the crux of the problem Rangnick inherited. Of the first list, Ronaldo must play almost every minute, and that leaves three others on the bench. Of the second list, Bruno must play, and Jadon cannot get himself into a rhythm to showcase his game. Rangnick is trying to put three or four of these on, but that leaves the midfield bare and exposed. Rangnick, and the permanent manager to be, must be brave to drop some of these big name players. As it has been said many many times, the midfield is just too poor.
 
copen1945 said:
This is the crux of the problem Rangnick inherited. Of the first list, Ronaldo must play almost every minute, and that leaves three others on the bench. Of the second list, Bruno must play, and Jadon cannot get himself into a rhythm to showcase his game. Rangnick is trying to put three or four of these on, but that leaves the midfield bare and exposed. Rangnick, and the permanent manager to be, must be brave to drop some of these big name players. As it has been said many many times, the midfield is just too poor.
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You may have a case with Ronaldo. But Bruno hasn't been a starter in the last 2 games. Rashford and Maguire were dropped also. I don't think RR has problem dropping big names.
 
Isotope said:
You may have a case with Ronaldo. But Bruno hasn't been a starter in the last 2 games. Rashford and Maguire were dropped also. I don't think RR has problem dropping big names.
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True. Rangnick is seeing what is painfully obvious and is trying to do something about it. He isn't entirely spineless.

He doesn't have the chess pieces, though. It really should be one of the seven listed up top, and others should be able play different roles, as a winger, an attacking midfielder, or a central midfielder. Liverpool forwards drop into midfield and look comfortable, as do the Chelsea forwards. The less said about the Man City players, the better. The one up top is Ronaldo, so Bruno and all others must become versatile. Don't think we have the players of these qualities. It will be expensive to correct the deficiency in the squad.
 
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copen1945 said:
True. Rangnick is seeing what is painfully obvious and is trying to do something about it. He isn't entirely spineless.

He doesn't have the chess pieces, though. It really should be one of the seven listed up top, and others should be able play different roles, as a winger, an attacking midfielder, or a central midfielder. Liverpool forwards drop into midfield and look comfortable, as do the Chelsea forwards. The less said about the Man City players, the better. The one up top is Ronaldo, so Bruno and all others must become versatile. Don't think we have the players of these qualities. It will be expensive to correct the deficiency in the squad.
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This. And he doesn't really have his own coaching team is a problem also. He could only do with a made-up (probably 2nd rate) coaches that he could have. That explain why he was desperate to keep one of Mckenna or Carrick for continuity.
 
Isotope said:
yes. AC Milan now has Ibra (40) and Giroud (35). Don't know if they've started together though.
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They have not started a game together. But they've played 15/30 minutes together here and there. I remember them trying to break down a 9-men Bologna with both on the pitch and managing it at the very end (4-2).
 
harms said:
Matthews was a right winger (outside right) though, so not really a strike partnership.
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That's what I mean about formations not being the same. I think Blackpool were one of many teams still using the WM formation at the time, where a forward line would have consisted of the centre forward and the outside right and left.
 
Will Singh said:
On paper it looks like a partnership you’d get in the MLS as in players who were once great and now play in a retirement fund league….
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I'd add in reality too. Especially Ronaldo he looks like a 50 yo legend playing in some charity match.
 
noodlehair said:
Its the stupidity of it I find more humilating than anything else. The wealth side is irrelevant as we had 3 other strikers we could have used.

I get that they're both great players and great professionals but you don't need to be a world class football manager to know that playing them as a strike partnership is a terrible idea. You can't just ignore that intensity and mobility is a vital factor in football. If it wasn't no one would ever retire before about 50.

It reminds me of Ferguson in his last couple of seasons putting Giggs and Scholes in the same midfield and then being seemingly baffled when supposedly inferior opposition would run rings around them....BUT, even then he would facilitate them by having Fletcher or Carrick in the midfield with them. So there was at least some recognition of the need to compensate the lack of mobility with an extra body.

Rangnick instead compounds the matter by having Matic in a two man midfield and then preventing one of his full backs from being able to go forwards and occupy any space. So we have no mobility at all in ANY area of the pitch.

And then its apparently baffling why our players seem to lack any intensity or "motivation"...if you pick a team that quite literally isn't physically capable of being intense or "motivated" then what in the actual feck are you expecting? Cavani and Ronaldo aren't going to magically play like they're 10 years younger. Matic isn't going to magically become fleet footed enough to play in a midfield where he has to be the most mobile player on the pitch for it to work.

Its absolute basic stuff. If you want high intensity football you have to pick your high intensity players. Not just pick your supposed "best" ones and expect them to defy the laws of science.

Its actually really annoying watching our players criticised and ripped apart when there's been this nonsense going on all fecking season. They can't do what physically isn't possible.
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I do think some of the decisions of the manager so far have been puzzling. I don't think many of us saw Cavani, Matic and Ronaldo all playing another 90 minutes back-to-back.

The non-selection of Fred is another odd thing. He started well under Rangnick, had a poor first 45 against Newcastle when really the whole team were disappointing, and hasn't been seen since. If you had asked me which players would be favoured by a manager who wants a high workrate team to press high up the pitch, I would have suggested McT and Fred playing most weeks, Lingard getting a lot of game time, Dalot over AWB, and Cavani used sparingly so he doesn't have to pace himself.
 
decorativeed said:
That's what I mean about formations not being the same. I think Blackpool were one of many teams still using the WM formation at the time, where a forward line would have consisted of the centre forward and the outside right and left.
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Tbf the forward line in WM consists of 5 players, not 3. Inside forwards are very much attacking players, not midfielders, it's the outside rights & lefts that hardly participate in anything happening inside the penalty box.
 
harms said:
Tbf the forward line in WM consists of 5 players, not 3. Inside forwards are very much attacking players, not midfielders, it's the outside rights & lefts that hardly participate in anything happening inside the penalty box.
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My understanding is that the 'W' was considered the attacking half of the outfield players and the 'M' the defensive half. The three furthest forward were the Outside Right/Left and the Centre Forward. Anyway, we've already established that Cavani and Ronaldo are not the oldest partnership.
 
DWelbz19 said:
It’s a partnership that probably wouldn’t have even worked with both at their peaks. They’d have scored enough with their elite movement and general attacking instincts, but neither can link up at all.
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This is the point. Both are poachers at this stage of their career. You can’t play two poachers.
 
decorativeed said:
My understanding is that the 'W' was considered the attacking half of the outfield players and the 'M' the defensive half. The three furthest forward were the Outside Right/Left and the Centre Forward. Anyway, we've already established that Cavani and Ronaldo are not the oldest partnership.
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A front 5 in a WM would look roughly like this (below), but the main goalscorers were often those inside forwards or, at least, they would be very much comparable to strikers in terms of their goalscoring output. Outside lefts and rights would stay out wide in almost any scenario, stretching up the pitch and providing crosses. This is why when people talk about striking partnerships of the 50's/early 60's they only take central players, striker and 2 inside forwards, in consideration. The most renown goalscorers of that era often played as inside forwards when played in WM — like Puskás (806 career goals) and Kocsis (556 career goals) from the example below (Hungary of 50's), or someone like Denis Law & Jimmy Greaves.

<- Czibor ----- Hidegkuti -------- Budai ->
----------- Puskás --------- Kocsis ---------

Sorry for continuing to stir the thread off topic :)
 
DWelbz19 said:
It’s a partnership that probably wouldn’t have even worked with both at their peaks. They’d have scored enough with their elite movement and general attacking instincts, but neither can link up at all.
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Cavani had spent most of his peak (after leaving Napoli) as a player playing in a supporting role as well as shining alongside Suárez for Uruguay. His link up was pretty good and his off-the-ball movement not only put him in goalscoring positions but also freed up a lot of space for his attacking partners like Ibra in PSG for example. Cristiano at his peak was also pretty decent in terms of link up and creativity — he was always focused on scoring himself first but he was more than capable of finding a partner in a good position, hence his impressive assist tally over the years (despite not being a natural-born creator). Do not confuse the washed out versions of the two that we've got with them at their peak.
 
harms said:
A front 5 in a WM would look roughly like this (below), but the main goalscorers were often those inside forwards or, at least, they would be very much comparable to strikers in terms of their goalscoring output. Outside lefts and rights would stay out wide in almost any scenario, stretching up the pitch and providing crosses. This is why when people talk about striking partnerships of the 50's/early 60's they only take central players, striker and 2 inside forwards, in consideration. The most renown goalscorers of that era often played as inside forwards when played in WM — like Puskás (806 career goals) and Kocsis (556 career goals) from the example below (Hungary of 50's), or someone like Denis Law & Jimmy Greaves.

<- Czibor ----- Hidegkuti -------- Budai ->
----------- Puskás --------- Kocsis ---------

Sorry for continuing to stir the thread off topic :)
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Ha, no problem. I don't think it's too OT!

I'm quite familiar with Puskás, as I did an exhibition about him while I was at the National Football Museum, alongside some guys from the Puskás Institute in Budapest. I held his Hungary and Real Madrid jerseys, Olympic gold medal, European Cup winners medal - amongst other things - in my hands. It was one of the coolest collections I worked with.
 
harms said:
Matthews was a right winger (outside right) though, so not really a strike partnership.
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By that logic, seeing as Cavani spent most of the match floating about the pitch nowhere near the opposition box, I'm sure the same could be said of last night
 
groovyalbert said:
By that logic, seeing as Cavani spent most of the match floating about the pitch nowhere near the opposition box, I'm sure the same could be said of last night
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Not really, as his main goal was still to try & to score goals. Matthews barely even cut inside, he spent most of his career beating his marker & crossing into the box.

decorativeed said:
Ha, no problem. I don't think it's too OT!

I'm quite familiar with Puskás, as I did an exhibition about him while I was at the National Football Museum, alongside some guys from the Puskás Institute in Budapest. I held his Hungary and Real Madrid jerseys, Olympic gold medal, European Cup winners medal - amongst other things - in my hands. It was one of the coolest collections I worked with.
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Cool!
 
TMDaines said:
Lewandowski could be here fancying a final challenge in England after winning everything with Bayern. We’d still be having the same discussion. He would be labouring to even get 20 league goals. We’ve not really had the creativity in the side for years.
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I am dead certain that Lewandowski would score 30+ in the Premiere League as well. That guy is a matchup proof machine.
 
Acrobat7 said:
I am dead certain that Lewandowski would score 30+ in the Premiere League as well. That guy is a matchup proof machine.
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Give him around 30 xG worth of service and he probably would, but he wouldn’t be able to get that in this United team right now.
 
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