Didn't Rangers get relegated two divisions for paying their players through hidden contracts? This is just the ones Football leaks know about. Between their actual City contracts, the external fraudulent Image Rights contracts, and hidden ADUG payments, I bet they pay double their stated wages. They promised to pay Sane 28m over 3 years and guaranteed a top up if the contract didn't cover it. Dodgy as feck.
Oil Money in Football | New City expose
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Rangers went into liquidation, it's a totally different situation.
So, an expose documenting how the richest club in the world circumvented rules, strategised about how to do so, threatened regulators, candidly spoke in-house about how to cheat, is not a huge story, should not be hyped, is what, yesterday's news?
You are clutching at straws here. If this was my club, I'd feel deeply ashamed. If we end up going down this road, I'll stop following United.
I was glad to listen to Football Weekly today. Barry Glendenning is the first journo I hear/read properly laying into City, their owners, and even their fans. The story hasn't gotten the attention it deserves so far.
Are the owners still planning to build leisure centres and the airport in Manchester? The council will happily take their money.
I think only we care about this as it has impacted us a little more than others. Another couple of weeks and it will all be forgotten.
I dont know, Bayern and the 2 Spanish teams don't seem too happy with the situation either. It'll rumble on i expect. Their owners are too scummy to not attract attention and criticism.
Do city still get paid by these fake sponsors? Surely that alone should be stopped? I read that their revenue is higher than Chelsea and Liverpool, and that they are now turning a profit, but if half of their income is fake I.e. from the sheikh, then aren’t they still breaking ffp rules?
I have a couple of issues with all this, beyond the obvious. That doesn’t mean I’m supporting or ignoring what’s happened but some things need to be said:
Firstly although some of this undoubtedly looks ‘dodgy’ do we really believe the rest of football is clean? Not just today but go back through time and there’s always examples of teams having an upper hand through dubious cash sources and practices. Spiegel even let themselves down (and show their true colours) by quoting Uli Hoeness saying City can buy good players now and shouldn’t be allowed (I paraphrase). This is Hoeness, who, at his trial in 2014, admitted evading €28.5million in taxes, was found guilty of seven serious counts of tax fraud and sentenced to prison for three and a half years. And it’s Bayern who’ve won the league the last 7 seasons.
Then La Liga complain whilst 2 teams share most the cash and have won 13 of the last 14 seasons between them. All during which Real were being investigated (and found guilty) of dodging tax and taking interest free cash off the government. That’s the Real that have just won 3 Chamions Leagues on the back of that money.
Secondly it’s not just the sour grapes and clearly corrupt examples above but do we really want to be like those leagues where only the ones with the mighty traditions (us and maybe Arsenal with the odd whiff of Liverpool) ever get to compete or win? Where the title is done and dusted before it starts? No team has retained the title for 10 years and I love that. It makes the Premier league the most popular in the world (which in turn makes US richer).
Finally let’s face it, they’ve not spent much more than us in the last few years so if it were just about money we’d be smashing the teams that haven’t the cash, in the way they do.
So my bigger point is that us all obsessing on this makes us seem small time. We want them thrown out the league, really?? Titles taken away?
Is this where we’ve fallen to?
Let’s hurt them by beating them on Sunday, making our own money work as it should instead of crying about theirs.
Firstly although some of this undoubtedly looks ‘dodgy’ do we really believe the rest of football is clean? Not just today but go back through time and there’s always examples of teams having an upper hand through dubious cash sources and practices. Spiegel even let themselves down (and show their true colours) by quoting Uli Hoeness saying City can buy good players now and shouldn’t be allowed (I paraphrase). This is Hoeness, who, at his trial in 2014, admitted evading €28.5million in taxes, was found guilty of seven serious counts of tax fraud and sentenced to prison for three and a half years. And it’s Bayern who’ve won the league the last 7 seasons.
Then La Liga complain whilst 2 teams share most the cash and have won 13 of the last 14 seasons between them. All during which Real were being investigated (and found guilty) of dodging tax and taking interest free cash off the government. That’s the Real that have just won 3 Chamions Leagues on the back of that money.
Secondly it’s not just the sour grapes and clearly corrupt examples above but do we really want to be like those leagues where only the ones with the mighty traditions (us and maybe Arsenal with the odd whiff of Liverpool) ever get to compete or win? Where the title is done and dusted before it starts? No team has retained the title for 10 years and I love that. It makes the Premier league the most popular in the world (which in turn makes US richer).
Finally let’s face it, they’ve not spent much more than us in the last few years so if it were just about money we’d be smashing the teams that haven’t the cash, in the way they do.
So my bigger point is that us all obsessing on this makes us seem small time. We want them thrown out the league, really?? Titles taken away?
Is this where we’ve fallen to?
Let’s hurt them by beating them on Sunday, making our own money work as it should instead of crying about theirs.
If anything the deafening silence in uk media adds weight to Spiegels claims about the extent of city’s reach. A truly pointless vanity club, cheapening the sport.
I don't know how anyone can compare the wage bills for any club with ManCity's now, knowing they pay players from different sources.
I didn't say that. All I'm saying was that when you consider the magnitude of such allegations, this tabloidesque (and sometimes childish) approach seems a weird route Der Spiegel went with.
Well, that expose went well, with our media paying lip service and generally sticking their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la. Meanwhile City fans shout fake news and maintain that traditional seam of bitterness, something which will never go away. Looks like we are stuck with this obscene state of affairs. Nothing will be done.
On a similar note, woke early this morning and listened to a BBC World Service item on the clandestine activities of the Saudi security service and the grip on power being exercised by the new crown prince. If we are ever bought by the Saudis, I could not take an active interest in the club anymore.
On a similar note, woke early this morning and listened to a BBC World Service item on the clandestine activities of the Saudi security service and the grip on power being exercised by the new crown prince. If we are ever bought by the Saudis, I could not take an active interest in the club anymore.
Can anyone summarize what has been exposed, allegedly, so far?
So this is all quietly slipping away. The money isn’t just talking, it’s hush hush money too.
So basically, a mega rich country, halfway across the globe, can make a mockery of the game of football in this country.
Meanwhile, fair competition is a distant dream. It really has become pointless. I think I’m going to the garden to eat worms.
So basically, a mega rich country, halfway across the globe, can make a mockery of the game of football in this country.
Meanwhile, fair competition is a distant dream. It really has become pointless. I think I’m going to the garden to eat worms.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/06/manchester-city-uefa-financial-fair-play
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ush-manchester-city-investigated-allegations/
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/pep-guardiola-man-city-spiegel-15381969
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46101803
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46132272
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ly-paid-roberto-mancini175m-offshore-account/
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ball-leaks-champions-league-ucl-a8620036.html
That's just from a 10 second Google search. They've not ignored it at all.
To be fair, the Guardian and the BBC have both run stories on this and included references to it in other, unrelated pieces. I don't think it's going away just yet.
City's commercial revenue is £232m whilst United is £276 with more than double the commercial partners City have and they don't have a huge kit deal like United do with Adidas.
Liverpool & Chelsea are around the £130m figure so approx £100m behind City which is hard to believe.
Based on the history and success City have had it would be reasonable to suggest City should be around £100m.
You could also wonder about City's match day revenues considering how every league is a sell out yet on some occasions only 35,000 have turned up. Considering all their support is supposed to be 'local' 20,000 not been able to attend a match is very unfortunate.
I agree, this hasn't been ignored. A lot of this has been common knowledge for years, that City were trying to circumvent FFP. Whether they like it or not they signed up to the agreement, no matter how anti-competition it was.
The issue is how far the revelations will go and will anything be done about it. The problem is no one looks good, the club(s) or the governing bodies. If UEFA were going to take action against City, who is to say Khaldoon and his cronies won't dig up dirt on the others?
I think UEFA and FIFA need to get their houses in order for a start. City's ownership is abhorrent but nothing can be done to stop them.
My point is that it took an overseas paper to disclose any of this while the uk ‘journalists’ are happy to nod along for almost a decade and gush over them. It’s appalling.
Separately Let’s see how it’s followed up im coming weeks, what Spiegel have claimed is an enormous story, as big an off field story as there can be really. The Mancini and sane allegations alone, yet I’ve yet to see a headline piece.
Cheers for that Dan. It doesn’t add up at all, and I’m assuming so that these ‘fake’ sponsors are still in place and that they include the money received from them in their annual accounts which supposedly show profits.
Hopefully some proper punishment will happen but it would surprise me if it did.
The point is that it has been known for years that City have been less than honest with their financial dealings. The BBC Panorama programme five or six years ago showed how the Sheik personally profited from a share deal after he via a company he was Chairman of, lent Barclays billions of dollars after the crash of 2008. Barclays were not bailed out by the Government largely so the Executives could still pay themselves bonuses. So the Chairman of a company lending money to a bank and buying shares at a knock down price to some looks like a bribe. The paper trail is long and secretive and even a dozen Forensic accountants couldn’t trace all of it in two weeks. The shares, held as warrants, eventually turned up at an investment company called pcp3 owned by guess who, the Sheik. He bought the warrants at 197.7 p. He has made close to £2.2bn profit from this deal and paid no UK tax. The arrangement is complex but apparently not illegal.
Man City however are part of a competition run by UEFA and UEFA have rules as do the Premier League. The UK government have Laws regarding paying tax on income. City and their owners, have , again via complex financial arrangements, flouted these rules and laws. If other Football Clubs are doing this then they also should be challenged. It has emerged that Roberto Mancini’s salary was topped up via an off shore company by the Sheik. Mancini was supposed to be ‘an adviser’ to another club owned by the Sheik. Therefore £1.75m of Mancini’s salary didn’t appear in City’s books. I have said for years that I wouldn’t be surprised if some players, agents and other staff have similar schemes.
So the whole point is that City and it’s owners are corrupt and somewhere down the line I also suspect some Council staff will be found to be richer than normal with the Leader of the Council being a City fan and season ticket holder. How many companies get instant planning permission these days. FC United had to fight toooth and nail whilst the Sheik waltzed into acres and acres of land unhindered, which is why he bought them in the first place. The other pint is that the media are not reporting this as a big story other than in the southern press. BBC NW tonight haven’t mentioned it and SKY have avoided it which tells you all you need to know about the power of money.
Tu Quoque.
If there were evidences for such practices from other teams as well, then they should be investigated as well, even if its done by United.
What has any of that got to do with unfair dealings by City?. Are you implying or saying that it doesn't matter if teams cheat so that we can have a very competitive league?
No. Most fans have been saying from the beginning City have overvalued all of their sponsorship to dodgy deals and yet the city fans have been pounding their chests, that its all because of their commercial growth and success. And we have been vindicated with evidence now. There is nothing small time about calling for action to be taken against these dodgy dealings.
It’s just wrong.
If United were involved with something like this I would hold my hands up and take punishment, but of course, we’re staying profitable and within our means despite the glazers dividends and stuff. Man city fans are in ridiculous denial about this.
If United were involved with something like this I would hold my hands up and take punishment, but of course, we’re staying profitable and within our means despite the glazers dividends and stuff. Man city fans are in ridiculous denial about this.
Cheating is cheating in any form. If all the allegations are true I would hope they implement hefty point deduction for a couple of seasons.
When City were bought by the Sheik, were there not rumours of a Casino being built next door to the City of Manchester stadium as it was before the loss making Etihad Airways found millions to pay for naming rights? With the Leader of the Council, Sir Richard Leese being an ardent season ticket holder at City, planning permission will be waved through. They should build in the heartland of their support, Stockport, and name it the Mike Dean Centre after his help in them winning the title against QPR.
The Casino plan was stopped by Labour government I recall , besides isn’t gambling a sin in the Islamic faith?
Yep. With so much fluff included it is hard to take seriously the idea that the articles are remotely objective (they read as Bayern sounding off) but what they have 'exposed' is that UEFA argued City had breached FFP, City denied it on the basis the goalposts had been changed, a financial settlement was entered into because UEFA didn't want to risk the basis of FFP being challenged in court nor did they want to air their dirty laundry in public, UEFA at the time stated the 'real losses' were greater than those alleged in the recent articles hence the fine, City paid the fine, everyone knew at the time about the image rights separate company and everyone since has moved on. There is a reason the English press have backed off in the last few days - it's because the promised smoking gun never materialised.
I can totally understand the frustration towards clubs that injected a lot of money like PSG or City but i can't wrap my head around this idea of financial doping being the same as physical doping . At the end of the day, even if they have a bigger salary you're still playing against guys with 2 hands, 2 feet and nothing abnormal. Yes they (maybe) have more talent, and they were paid huge amounts of money to come to the club but they're still football players that didn't cheat (as far as we know) to be better than others.
That's an horrible summary.
Two most important points that you've missed are
1) ADAG paying Etihad money to sponsor City
2) Mancini salary being half paid in effect by an Emirati club.
Obviously there's other stuff like City staff enjoying the death of one of the FFP people, entering into a sponsorship contract with one of the companies whose human rights record is so bad that some City staff members objected to this partnership saying it'll be a PR disaster.
Have you even read the articles Jon or did you write this summaries based on the guff you read on Bluemoon or something?
Literally nothings going to happen, is it? 
what a wonderful sport.
what a wonderful sport.Spiegel has attacked/exposed Bayern, Hoeneß, Beckenbauer and others many times in the past. Just recently they exposed Bayern for wanting to leave the Bundesliga (for the Supercup) etc.
Bayern surely hates Spiegel.
Literally nothings going to happen, is it?
Oh something will happen, they will nost likely get an apology.
Why are the other 19 teams in the Premiership not getting hot under the collar about this, instead of what seems like a collective shrugging of shoulders.
Resigned to it all?
Dirty linen of their own to hide?
In denial/not convinced?
Couldn't they collectively bring pressure on whatever association or government department to open a transparent investigation?
Resigned to it all?
Dirty linen of their own to hide?
In denial/not convinced?
Couldn't they collectively bring pressure on whatever association or government department to open a transparent investigation?
Dont take the piss. Your cheating is so far beyond blatant its not funny. Your owners are scum (and financial doping is the tip of the iceberg) - why is that so hard to admit?
Most supporters dont like their owners, you guys have more of a reason than anyone to hate yours. Why is it so hard to admit?
Indeed - the club is a morality vacuum.
Their loyalty to a tyrannical Sharia state, built and sustained by slaves, is cringeworthy, and the lengths they’ll go to deny the validity of the leaks is amusing. The fact Soriano admitted they are ‘the enemies of football’ confirms everything you need to know.
They've had multiple leaks by multiple employees all stating its a propaganda tool. Anyone defending them is a total moron with no self respect.
The council were advised to not get in bed with Abu Dhabi by human rights campaigners. Sir Richard Leese and Sir Howard Bernstein rejected this recommendation, defending them as 'business people' and ignoring their human rights abuses.
Last year, Sir Howard Bernstein retired from the council and was employed by Abu Dhabi to oversee the project which he'd green lit.
I'm not saying that's corrupt, but it absolutely probably 100% is.
Manchester has a proud history of supporting the working classes and even Abraham Lincoln and the fight against slavery.
Indeed, Peterloo, an account of the murders of protesters at a mass pro-democracy protest in Manchester, has just been released at the cinemas. A film, which received its world premiere at a special LFF screening in Manchester, is now being championed by a city who sold itself out to a repressive, oil-rich state.
I'm sure Howard Bernstein sleeps in extreme comfort.
Richard Leese continues to sell off publicly owned spaces in Manchester to property developers from outside of the city and across the world. There's no suggestion that he profits from this personally, but he did get arrested for hitting a 16-year old girl in the face. So you wouldn't put corruption beyond his moral code or lack of.
Football aside, this is shameful.
Sadly, this is not uncommon in a city which seems determined to exchange its history and values for foreign investment.
A Labour council in name only.
I don't give a feck about FFP or dodgy sponsorship deals.
Looking past who this people are for short-term riches is intrinsically un-Mancunian.
The Citizens indeed.
Why would they complain? It’s all about money and every other team (including us) have become richer and richer with City around. Now maybe you can argue City would’ve made no difference to this, but why risk it?
Because AFAIK they didn't break any premier league rules
City fans have been suspiciously quiet in this thread recently. What's the general vibe amongst your lot regarding this situation?