Is there anyone that actually disagrees with Moyes' assessment? 5-6 top class players needed, we have several. I was actually glad he acknowledged that because it shows that he recognises whats needed. What's more, he tried signing the likes of Fabregas. If he continues shopping for those players, and pulls some off soon, then we'll be laughing.
Moyes So Far!
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A mostly good watch. Unfortunately it always talks about 3 being better than 2 in CM, but teams such as Bayern have been successful over the last few years using 2 central midfielders so its not always the case. Its down to the players and how good they are, but also down to the help they get from teammates. It also suggests near the end that we miss a holding midfielder, when we are playing at least 1, maybe 2 as neither get forward.
Exactly, which is what made the whole "Fellaini must be getting in the box" bit somewhat strange and out of place.
It's an obvious rigid 4-2 deep 3-1 one offence formation.
While I dont think the vid is anywhere near perfect, I dont think he was saying Fellaini had to get into the box. What he did say is that one of the reasons Fellaini isnt showing his Everton form of last season is because we arent using his ability in the air. He's never in the box and rarely far enough forward to play that ball in the air to him. I think that bit was just for people who don't realise that Fellaini played that advanced role last season, which seemed the case with a lot of people who wanted us to sign him in the summer.
Good point
Fellaini is a very bad signing in my opinion. I have no idea what can make anyone think that Fellaini is a united class player. The simple fact is he is not good enough. United need to be able to compete for the services of the best players around, and not some late overpriced panic buy of Fellaini. Moyes has not had much time yet but I certainly hope he finds some balls and makes more positive decisions. His substitutions leave me amazed sometimes, and he seems to be out of his depth. I hope I am wrong and he comes good.Good point
lets just not sign anyone in case they might not become a 'class United player'.If you want to be competing at the highest level then you need better players than Fellaini I can assure you of that.
I think that's the plan. The current squad is good enough for 2 more years, time enough for Moyes to settle down and he has opportunity to mould the team to his style with the replacements. Except that the current side is not performing up to par. Maybe it is the morale or unsettle from the managerial change, I believe it is temporary.
where Moyes is failing is to come up with a strategy to succeed. Fellaini and Carrick are currently tripping over each other. Wingers are shite and Zaha does not play. Weird substitutions. It all points to lack of will to stamp his authority on the team. He lacks Fergie's iron mentality and that will only come in time. Give him time to settle down and he will deliver.
Good point
I just didn't see his need at United. He was the fifth midfielder at Everton. United already have 5 or 6 players who could play there. They should have paid up for Fabregas. Money talks. If they wanted him badly enough, they could have lured him.
Excuse me when I completely ignore your armchair opinions on a fan forum and back the experienced manager of a football team.
I've re-watched the Southampton game and I think we were unlucky not to win the match.
Southampton pressed well, defended well and had a lot of possession but did not create that much. The one great chance they had was wasted by Osvaldo after Rooney's got caught in possession by Wanyama's pressing.
We on the other hand were unlucky with the two efforts that hit the bar, created a few half chances, Boruc made two good saves and one decent save from Nani, Januzaj and RVP and some of the offside calls against Southampton's high line were tight. It was very similar to many home performances over the years when the second goal kills off the game and we were close to getting that second goal. Boruc's save from Januzaj is a lot better on second viewing. Second goal wins the game and people would be a lot more focused on the positives.
I really hope we play the same side tonight minus possibly Cleverley in for Fellaini who is going to need time to adjust to United.
The subs made were still very questionable but the overall performance itself was decent and more often than not would have yielded three points. A lot different to WBA where we deserved to lose.
Southampton pressed well, defended well and had a lot of possession but did not create that much. The one great chance they had was wasted by Osvaldo after Rooney's got caught in possession by Wanyama's pressing.
We on the other hand were unlucky with the two efforts that hit the bar, created a few half chances, Boruc made two good saves and one decent save from Nani, Januzaj and RVP and some of the offside calls against Southampton's high line were tight. It was very similar to many home performances over the years when the second goal kills off the game and we were close to getting that second goal. Boruc's save from Januzaj is a lot better on second viewing. Second goal wins the game and people would be a lot more focused on the positives.
I really hope we play the same side tonight minus possibly Cleverley in for Fellaini who is going to need time to adjust to United.
The subs made were still very questionable but the overall performance itself was decent and more often than not would have yielded three points. A lot different to WBA where we deserved to lose.
I have a lot of criticisms of Moyes so far. Not liked the way he's set us up, not liked his slightly cautious nature at times, not like that he's not imposed any philosophy or even shown signs of doing so and hated his transfer business in the summer which was really really awful.
But it's still too early to draw any conclusions about him. Lets give him a season at the very least before we make our minds completely about him. I didnt want him to begin with, but now that he's here, lets give him a proper shot to see what he's made of. If in good time we still look a bit of a boring team with very evidence of a cohesive footballing system in place, then I might conclude that he isn't right for United. But it's too early.
But it's still too early to draw any conclusions about him. Lets give him a season at the very least before we make our minds completely about him. I didnt want him to begin with, but now that he's here, lets give him a proper shot to see what he's made of. If in good time we still look a bit of a boring team with very evidence of a cohesive footballing system in place, then I might conclude that he isn't right for United. But it's too early.
Its tough being a top red these days. Before SAF used to defend his side so it was pretty simple. Now a top red must choose between the team SAF built or the manager he told them to trust
This is very true and I have going over our current roster vs 08 and 99.
Sadly we do not have near the world class talent we had then. Back then I happily went over our roster and any other teams chuckling at how blessed with talent we were. I mean seriously take a look at Bayern... who from our team is an easy shout to start in their squad? RVP and maybe Rafael. That is it for easy shouts... Bayern has some talent on their bench and injured that would walk into our squad and start immediately. This is sad but also the reality of today.
We just are not blessed with talent right now and any recent success is down to what Fergie managed to build and sustain. It is now Moyes turn and I definitely believe he is right and that we need a few world class players. A CM and a winger would be where I started. Regardless I see some time needed for Moyes to make this his team and I see some changes coming. I only hope the transition is brief and we get back to our winning ways.
Very true. They square the circle by ignoring their previously expressed opinions on the quality of the players.
I was criticised (mild word) on several occasions for suggesting we had spent poorly and wasted a lot of money in recent years; and Fergie had allowed the standard of the team to decline. But now the TR faces an invidious choice: either acknowledge that players, who only last year, according to themselves, were undoubtedly Manchester United quality, aren't really so good after all, or commit the heresy of criticising the new manager for his failure to get the best from our talented squad.
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I expect that a new manager coming to Manchester United have a clear vision how to manage his new club, a short and a middle term plan about transfers, I expect him to have good knowledge about his new players strange and weaknesses after a full pre season, if that's not enough time he have his back room staff and videos to support him. I expect him to be more or less ready for his new challenge without any excuses and amateurish feck ups.
I also expect that the clubs most important individual knows how to communicate so he can present his new vision, express his future plans and most important I expect him to at least have some ability to inspire players, supporters and everybody connected to his club.
After nearly four month with David Moyes do any of us know his vision about football? Are we inspired? Do we know anything about his future plans?
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I also expect that the clubs most important individual knows how to communicate so he can present his new vision, express his future plans and most important I expect him to at least have some ability to inspire players, supporters and everybody connected to his club.
After nearly four month with David Moyes do any of us know his vision about football? Are we inspired? Do we know anything about his future plans?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
Very true. They square the circle by ignoring their previously expressed opinions on the quality of the players.
I was criticised (mild word) on several occasions for suggesting we had spent poorly and wasted a lot of money in recent years; and Fergie had allowed the standard of the team to decline. But now the TR faces an invidious choice: either acknowledge that players, who only last year, according to themselves, were undoubtedly Manchester United quality, aren't really so good after all, or commit the heresy of criticising the new manager for his failure to get the best from our talented squad.
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So one's not allowed to think the players are probably good enough and the manager's probably good enough but it's not that unpredictable that they're struggling a bit for flow and stability 11 games into their symbiosis given how deeply rooted the last guy's way of doing things was..?
I don't have any idea why that interview has been misunderstood. IMO, he never said that we should sign 5-6 world class players, but in order to win UCL we need to have 5-6 world class players (including those that we have like RVP, possibly Rooney, maybe Carrick and in the short future Rafael and De Gea).
Now I don't agree that this is the case, cause there are teams that won it without having that many world class players (Liverpool the best example, only Gerrard might have been in that category, Porto to a degree) but still people are criticizing him like he said that the only way to win it is if we make 5-6 top signings, which to be fair he never said. There are things to criticize Moyes for, but criticizing for something that he never said shouldn't be one of them.
What I disliked about Moyes' statement was the defeatism behind it and the implication that he doesn't rate the players he has. Regardless of whether or not Moyes thinks the squad is good enough to compete with the best I don't think he should give that impression publicly. If you pick up the paper or turn on the tele and see your manager saying his squad his weak you're bound to think the guy doesn't believe in you and that's bound to damage morale and impact performance.
This may not be the best Manchester United squad in history but if the players are fired up, motivated and 'BELIEVE' it should still be capable of winning the title and competing for major honours abroad. Last season proved that. Feels to me that right now the siege mentality is gone, the confidence to comeback from the brink has vanished and that is in part down to Moyes' nervous performances both in front of the cameras and in the dugout.
Indeed. Which baffles me slightly since at Everton Moyes was known as a tough fella in the dressing room. Yet from the outside looking in, during his time with us he seems cagey to make a decision and the players don't seem overly scared of him/overly eager to please him.
Yep. The joys of the netDon't make claims like that, they are trawling through the posts now and if they find it. You know what they are like, they never forget.
That article reads like a recycled version of the one that appeared after the community shield game t.b.h.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the fact SAF started with a stinker, whilst having a team of champions.
Just like it has been said time and again. Lets wait for Moyes to actually truly fail,. Before labeling him a failure. Personally, I will only agree he has had the worst start we have had ever if he only gets 1-2 points from our next 2 games.
It is not impossible to expect him to handle the team the way he handled Everton last season. Namely, without fear, and with clear decision making. In fact it should be the default expectation which thus far he is spectacularly failing to live up to. To be fair to his detractors.
Aye, this is something I've noticed also. He's almost being too nice at the moment. I want to see the guy that we saw at Everton that took no shit and was an intimidating character.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/23/david-moyes-manchester-united-bad-start?
Quite negative, but I can't really argue with any of it, except the coaching comment, managers take coaches with them all the time, it's to do with trust, not because they think they're the best coaches in the world. Although in saying that, I still think when you come into a club that has won five in seven league titles it would probably be a good idea to at least take some time to evaluate the staff and perhaps even enter the job with an open mindedness to learn new ideas.
Quite negative, but I can't really argue with any of it, except the coaching comment, managers take coaches with them all the time, it's to do with trust, not because they think they're the best coaches in the world. Although in saying that, I still think when you come into a club that has won five in seven league titles it would probably be a good idea to at least take some time to evaluate the staff and perhaps even enter the job with an open mindedness to learn new ideas.
I wouldn't mind the results we've had if we played with a bit of adventurism. Except we're not, we've been predictable, tedious, uninspiring AND we're dropping points while we're at it, so its not like its doing us any good. That Smalling for Rooney change at 1-0 up infuriated me, I really hope that's not the negative shit we're going to have to get used to under Moyes.
Be honest - Would any of you swap Klopp for Moyes right now??
In a heartbeat. But again, Klopp was always my first choice. That's not to say I was unhappy with Moyes' hiring.
The 1-1 draw was inevitable as soon as those subs were made IMO. I'd not of been half as pissed of with the late equaliser if we made some attacking subs, as Southampton probably deserved it, but the fact that we were at home and basically invited them onto us was fairly frustrating. Giggs nearly scored, but even that sub was quite hard to take, even if I love the man.
I haven't read it yet, I will though, but one of the reasons there are usually wholesale changes with coaching staff is because managers are rarely coming into a title winning team, new managers are usually coming into a failing/underachieving team (usually why the previous manager was sacked) so changes are usually needed. That wasn't the case here, and whilst I understand the desire to bring a couple of his own men like Round and Lumsden, keeping the current coaching staff would have eased the transition and would have helped Moyes and his team to learn about coaching at this level because he isn't used to it.
He hasnt done well enough with the players we have got, our start has been embarrassing considering we are champions, as it stands now arsenal look to be on par with us if not better - which just shows how far we have come off the boil. We look lacking in cohesion, ideas and any real structure. We have to give him until the end of next season but I just think that we could have done so much better by appointing a manger with a winning pedigree and a proper footballing philosophy.
Was going to post that article here, captures most of the feeling about moyes very well. The part about SAF achievement before taking over the club and moyes is particularly damning.
How ironic
I'm higher up with my jerks.
Yeah, the irony of Saliph making a poor post.
It's ok, Saliph. Let everything out.
Great article and pretty much sums up everything Moyes has been doing wrong. He just doesn't have a clear idea of what to do. He will be given to the end of the season to show what he can do but the constant list of excuses is tiring.
Klopp will not come but I don't mind Solksjaer to come back - I would have gone for Solskjaer over Moyes everytime.
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