McTominay Vs Fred

SpyLuke10 said:
Fred is better at winning the ball back and plays with more tenacity. He's better at driving the ball forward with his dribbling, and he's pretty rapid. He also finds himself in good attacking positions. Hes our player of the season imo. Like a Brazilian Kante.

That being said, McTominay is stronger and better in the air, obviously. McTominay has a way way way better shot on him. McTominay's passing is more incisive too. Hes quick to turn and zip it to a teammate, and I've loved his through balls to Dan James running down the right wing.

If I was to compare them like fifa ultimate team cards, fred would have higher pace, dribbling and defending and mctominay higher physicality, passing and shooting (much higher when it comes to shooting haha).
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Mctominay will have better passing than Fred? No chance. Fred is far better at passing in every single way.

Fred has:
Higher key passes per game despite playing further back; higher pass completion (87% to 79%); higher total passes; higher long balls per game. It is not even close.

Give Fred more freedom going forward, as he seems to be getting since Fernandes joined, and he will completely out match Mctominay for chance creation.

In fact, passing is a huge weakness of Mctominay. He needs to improve it a lot to be a first-team player for a title-challenging team. 79% accuracy for a team that dominates possession in most games is really not good enough
 
Untd55 said:
Mctominay will have better passing than Fred? No chance. Fred is far better at passing in every single way.

Fred has:
Higher key passes per game despite playing further back; higher pass completion (87% to 79%); higher total passes; higher long balls per game. It is not even close.

Give Fred more freedom going forward, as he seems to be getting since Fernandes joined, and he will completely out match Mctominay for chance creation.

In fact, passing is a huge weakness of Mctominay. He needs to improve it a lot to be a first-team player for a title-challenging team. 79% accuracy for a team that dominates possession in most games is really not good enough
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I'm still surprised many people haven't noticed Mctominay's improved passing. He tends to always look for a forward pass
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I'm still surprised many people haven't noticed Mctominay's improved passing. He tends to always look for a forward pass
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I agree. He also spreads the ball very well.
Fred is fantastic in tight spaces but his passing range isnt anything special. If it were he would be Xavi
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I'm still surprised many people haven't noticed Mctominay's improved passing. He tends to always look for a forward pass
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exactly. mctominay has way better vision than fred. his percentage is lower because he more often attempts these risky passes imo. hey, maybe fred is less likely to mess up a short pass across the field, but hes also less likely to attempt a through ball to dan james, rashford, etc. when you try those passes, it doesnt always work. I genuinely think McTominay has improved so much at passing this season. Just general end product with the ball, passing and shooting, its a class above what it once was for him.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I'm still surprised many people haven't noticed Mctominay's improved passing. He tends to always look for a forward pass
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No one has questioned McT's improvement in his passing, but improvement doesn't mean he is a better passer than Fred
 
cyberman said:
I agree. He also spreads the ball very well.
Fred is fantastic in tight spaces but his passing range isnt anything special. If it were he would be Xavi
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His touch isn’t good enough to be called fantastic in tight spaces. I can see why you’d think that, because he generally does come out of the contact with the ball. But he always invites the challenge, due to mis controlling.
 
-Supreme- said:
No one has questioned McT's improvement in his passing, but improvement doesn't mean he is a better passer than Fred
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I haven't read this thread so I don't know how far out of the normal range this opinion puts me, but I consider them equally good passers of the ball. I'd break it down like this:

Long passing: McTominay
Medium passing: Equal (Fred more progressive, but misplaces more)
Short passing in attacking half: Fred
Short passing under pressure in defensive half: McTominay
Through balls: Fred

But these things should always be taken under the proviso that Fred is in his peak and unlikely to improve much, whereas McTominay is likely to keep getting better for a couple of years still.
 
For me, yes Fred has been our player of the season - by far. But no one has made as bigger impact on our team like McTominay did when he came back against Spurs. I haven’t seen anything like it since Keane in our midfield, seriously. He lifted the whole team up and we stomped over their midfield.

For me, Fred starts for now. But McT will take his place soon enough.
 
McTominay.

Fred is alright but I think Scott’s level can reach exceptional. Potential aside I think McTominay is a better footballer now.
 
Brightonian said:
I haven't read this thread so I don't know how far out of the normal range this opinion puts me, but I consider them equally good passers of the ball. I'd break it down like this:

Long passing: McTominay
Medium passing: Equal (Fred more progressive, but misplaces more)
Short passing in attacking half: Fred
Short passing under pressure in defensive half: McTominay
Through balls: Fred

But these things should always be taken under the proviso that Fred is in his peak and unlikely to improve much, whereas McTominay is likely to keep getting better for a couple of years still.
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Couldn't agree more with that break down
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
For me, yes Fred has been our player of the season - by far. But no one has made as bigger impact on our team like McTominay did when he came back against Spurs. I haven’t seen anything like it since Keane in our midfield, seriously. He lifted the whole team up and we stomped over their midfield.
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First game back from injury and I think he only had 1 training session as well
 
Fred is industrious and tidy in possession and McTominay is big, strong and quick and adds a capacity to surge forward from midfield. It's difficult to compare them really because they aren't really doing the same job. Fred is basically the axis for our possession in midfield. McTominay can't really do that as he can't put up the kind of passing stats Fred does. But Fred doesn't really have the physical characteristics to play the box to box role either. At this stage they've both done so well that they certainly have the right to feel somewhat aggrieved if Pogba or Grealish took their place.
 
SpyLuke10 said:
exactly. mctominay has way better vision than fred. his percentage is lower because he more often attempts these risky passes imo. hey, maybe fred is less likely to mess up a short pass across the field, but hes also less likely to attempt a through ball to dan james, rashford, etc. when you try those passes, it doesnt always work. I genuinely think McTominay has improved so much at passing this season. Just general end product with the ball, passing and shooting, its a class above what it once was for him.
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you were just told in an earlier post specifically that Fred has a higher key pass yet youve determined that he is less likely to make a through pass to James????? You have no evidence to back this up. Fred is by far the better passer in every way. There really is no argument.

Mctominay has improved in his passing but still has some way to go in its consistency. I have hope that he will someday average a pass completion in the 85% region once he plays a lot more games. He has the tools and I love the power behind his passes.
 
Fred and Scott bring different strengths and on balance have contributed roughly equally to United this season (McTominay was out injured for a while of course, whereas I think Fred has been fit most of the season, which will throw off some of the stats being referred to here). I suspect many of us are more impressed by Fred's dramatic improvement from woeful/dire/grim last season to clear short lister for club POY, than we are McTominay's steady progression from last season, marred by a fairly long absence due to injury.

But a snapshot of where the two players were before the pandemic leaves no doubt about the strengths of these two midfielders. Fred is the better passer in the middle third, whereas Scott is vastly more effective in the final third. Both are reasonably effective defending in the middle third but Scott pulls ahead of Fred in defending in our own third.

The hard question we're trying to answer is if/when Pogba and Bruno both start, who between Fred and Scott should start with them? Of that course that depends on the opponent and the manager's tactics for the day -- if we're playing Barcelona and seeking to hit on the counter I'd go with Scott all day long. But if we're playing Watford where we expect to dominate possession I'd definitely go with Fred to capitalize on his strengths.
 
lex talionis said:
Fred and Scott bring different strengths and on balance have contributed roughly equally to United this season (McTominay was out injured for a while of course, whereas I think Fred has been fit most of the season, which will throw off some of the stats being referred to here). I suspect many of us are more impressed by Fred's dramatic improvement from woeful/dire/grim last season to clear short lister for club POY, than we are McTominay's steady progression from last season, marred by a fairly long absence due to injury.

But a snapshot of where the two players were before the pandemic leaves no doubt about the strengths of these two midfielders. Fred is the better passer in the middle third, whereas Scott is vastly more effective in the final third. Both are reasonably effective defending in the middle third but Scott pulls ahead of Fred in defending in our own third.

The hard question we're trying to answer is if/when Pogba and Bruno both start, who between Fred and Scott should start with them? Of that course that depends on the opponent and the manager's tactics for the day -- if we're playing Barcelona and seeking to hit on the counter I'd go with Scott all day long. But if we're playing Watford where we expect to dominate possession I'd definitely go with Fred to capitalize on his strengths.
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Bruno and pogba together with mctominay would be very unbalanced. Mctominay isn’t a holding midfielder but more of a Box to box similar to both Bruno and pogba. My first option would be Matic, Fred then mctominay. Mctominay has been best when he isn’t the deepest midfielder. He can do everything required of a CM but isn’t the best building up play from the back. He could develop more to learn this but as of now it’s better to partner him with Fred or Matic behind him.
 
abdo99 said:
Fred is superior in every aspect- except physicality
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Well that's complete and utter bollocks. Mctomminay is far superior in attack for example. Scores more goals. Makes more attack minded passes.

Fred has finally come to life in a united shirt and provided some well needed energy and aggression to his play. However offensively he is still way off what a top united midfielder needs to be. He rarely scores goals and doesn't get assists. Not sure what he offers us other than the work rate actually. He's good at that aspect don't get me wrong but what else does he do? Mctomminay has more strings to his bow for me. He can mix it in the tackle and also score from 25 yards which he's done several times already for us. Arsenal wolves and City being the opponents.

Mctomminay has the better future at the club for sure. Fred good squad player though. Don't want either of them to go anywhere.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Well that's complete and utter bollocks. Mctomminay is far superior in attack for example. Scores more goals. Makes more attack minded passes.
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This is awkward now since you started talking about "utter bollocks". You got nothing to back up your own statement. In this image below, Fred showed his passes are more attack minded. He made more long passes & more key passes in average per game than Scott.



And from what I watched, Fred is a much better passer than Scott and much more attack minded passer.

Scott scored more goals only means because he has better long shots than Fred.

Nou_Camp99 said:
Fred has finally come to life in a united shirt and provided some well needed energy and aggression to his play. However offensively he is still way off what a top united midfielder needs to be. He rarely scores goals and doesn't get assists. Not sure what he offers us other than the work rate actually. He's good at that aspect don't get me wrong but what else does he do? Mctomminay has more strings to his bow for me. He can mix it in the tackle and also score from 25 yards which he's done several times already for us. Arsenal wolves and City being the opponents.

Mctomminay has the better future at the club for sure. Fred good squad player though. Don't want either of them to go anywhere.
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You don't judge midfield's contribution in double pivot based on scoring goals & assists.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
This is awkward now since you started talking about "utter bollocks". You got nothing to back up your own statement. In this image below, Fred showed his passes are more attack minded. He made more long passes & more key passes in average per game than Scott.



And from what I watched, Fred is a much better passer than Scott and much more attack minded passer.

Scott scored more goals only means because he has better long shots than Fred.



You don't judge midfield's contribution in double pivot based on scoring goals & assists.
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Mctomminay just has more strings to his bow is all I said. I wouldn't sell Fred. We need depth.

In fact I'd be more tempted to sell Pogba than either of them purely based on the fact he doesn't want to be here. Doesn't matter how much ability he has his head n heart aren't at United anymore.

Fred has come on leaps and bounds so I'm happy. But he definitely doesn't convince me in final third at all.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Mctomminay just has more strings to his bow is all I said. I wouldn't sell Fred. We need depth.

In fact I'd be more tempted to sell Pogba than either of them purely based on the fact he doesn't want to be here. Doesn't matter how much ability he has his head n heart aren't at United anymore.

Fred has come on leaps and bounds so I'm happy. But he definitely doesn't convince me in final third at all.
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You are being out of context mate.

I'm talking about how you called people statement as bollocks just because you disagree about his opinion doesn't mean he's not correct.

You called Mctomminay makes more attack minded passes. And from what I showed you above, Fred is the one who makes more attack minded passes.

You questioned Fred's contribution just because he didn't score enough goals & assists. But that's not the primary job of a midfield in double pivot.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
You are being out of context mate.

I'm talking about how you called people statement as bollocks just because you disagree about his opinion doesn't mean he's not correct.

You called Mctomminay makes more attack minded passes. And from what I showed you above, Fred is the one who makes more attack minded passes.

You questioned Fred's contribution just because he didn't score enough goals & assists. But that's not the primary job of a midfield in double pivot.
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Mctomminay is definitely better in the final third. Fred has been better as deep lying DM/CM for us.

Be interesting to see what happens when we have everyone fit and if sulky chops decides to stay. I reckon Fred will be benched personally. Can see Mctomminay being preferred by Ole.
 
The problem with Fred is many still aren't fully convinced this is the real player and are waiting for him to turn shit again. If his career here started in October, this wouldn't even be close. He's single handed held the midfield together having multiple partners playing weekly through fatigue. People forget whilst Scott was out, he stepped up again and arguably Matic has played his best football with him. Since Bruno has arrived we have seen even more improvement in Fred. For me, he probably played the pass of the season and even scored a couple of goals in our last game. There is still more to come from him, I'm sure....
 
KennyBurner said:
Bruno and pogba together with mctominay would be very unbalanced. Mctominay isn’t a holding midfielder but more of a Box to box similar to both Bruno and pogba. My first option would be Matic, Fred then mctominay. Mctominay has been best when he isn’t the deepest midfielder. He can do everything required of a CM but isn’t the best building up play from the back. He could develop more to learn this but as of now it’s better to partner him with Fred or Matic behind him.
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I take your point and am completely on board with bringing in Partey to succeed Matic. But I'm not sure Fred is not an optimal holder either. But I've been so impressed by both this season that there just isn't a wrong answer between the two.
 
Fred is technically a bit cleverer than McTominay and perhaps a bit more mobile and even a bit more tenacious but there’s not a lot in it. McTominay is vastly improved and I’d say of the two he’s the one with more potential, he could ultimately become a proper top class footballer. McTominay has more goals in him and although he’s not exactly prolific he could get the seven or eight PL goals a season you need from a player in his position. Fred, based on what we’ve seen so far, will do well to get near to five.

The one common thing they both share on equal measure is desire. Both have shown real commitment for the cause, they are quick to back up team mates, they will berate officials to get us the decision and you can see their pleasure when we win. Both are real warriors and both deserve immense credit for winning the fans over after a tough start where many others have buckled.
 
Looking at them in isolation (hur hur!), Fred is the better player, however I think McT fits into the team and complements the other players better. That said, I would rather we just played both of them with Bruno and binned Pogba off to sign Sancho.
 
shamans said:
There is not a single aspect of Passing in which MCT is better than Fred.
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Thats not true. He's better at fizzing the ball with pace into the forwards' feet. Fred tends to lob them slightly with less pace which takes some time to control and slows down the play.
 
shamans said:
There is not a single aspect of Passing in which MCT is better than Fred.
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I agree. But I think the rest of his game is better. Depends what role they're supposed to be playing I guess as well as who's in form for which one would get the nod.
 
Bump. I’ve just been reminded that I made this thread awhile ago and wondered if anyone’s opinions have changed? Mine certainly has, I think at the time McTominay was playing okay and the team was doing well (ish). To my mind Fred is absolutely clear now as the winner of this battle but still interested to see what others think?
 
I have always thought Fred is quite a bit better.

McTominay plays like a man that isn't a natural midfielder a lot of the time. Fred is more involved, takes up better positions, better at pressing, defensively just as good (or bad depending on how you assess it), better at taking the ball, at least as good at short/mid range passing - probably not masses between them there.

I think McT really only has height to head the ball away and late surges forward over Fred. But those aren't frequently on display.
 
In my opinion they are both limited players but I feel Fred brings more to the team.

Fred is more mobile, better at pressing and also has an extremely high workrate. However he is a bit lightweight at times and his passing is very inconsistent.

McTominay on the other hand is a bit of a nothing player for me. Occasionally he is good at carrying the ball from midfield and has a decent shot but he hides from the ball too much for my liking.

I don't think he is defensively that great and also doesn't have very good passing. I feel like he is chosen mostly for his passion but we tend to see this more when he has altercations with players after fouls. I feel he jogs around the pitch too much and doesn't really have a high workrate like Fred does.

Under Rangnick I think Fred can be a good option if we can bring in a specialist DM. McTominay for me is a player that should be used as a rotation player but shouldn't be a starter.
 
It is interesting to note that it was Sancho who made both passes to Fred. For the first goal and the penalty. Fred made the move and the ball came to him. Maybe it is a coaching issue.
 
Foxbatt said:
It is interesting to note that it was Sancho who made both passes to Fred. For the first goal and the penalty. Fred made the move and the ball came to him. Maybe it is a coaching issue.
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Coaching certainly plays a part. I think Fred will do really well in a decent system. For me he just has so many more fundamentals compared to McTominay. For awhile McTominay nearly had me fooled as a competent player but the more you see, the harder it gets to watch him play.
 
McTominay is a marginally better passer and striker of the ball, but that's the only edge he has. Fred is better in all other attributes.
 
I changed my mind on McTominay, last season I thought we could mould him into a decent DM or B2B. Now I think he is not a midfielder, he thinks like a defender who likes to have game in front of him so he's useless as a DM, while on the ball he's too slow (in his head). It's a pity because he has a decent passing ability and generally doesn't make technical mistakes, it's just he isn't natural in midfield role.

Fred on the other hand is a decent midfielder, but under no circumstances he should be used in a sitting role. Ole tried playing him deeper a few times this season and from day one I said this is a bad idea. Actually this turned out to be a disaster and big part of the reason he's not rated here. But on the left of midfield 3 he's OK. Nothing spectacular, but midfielder doesn't need to be spectacular to be effective for the team in general.
 
Fred has been miles better since being pushed further forward… Solskjær was always playing him as one of the deep midfielders. If we’re going to be a pressing team then Fred will be played further forward. Mctominay is obviously better physical and probably better under pressure.
 
McT is a bench player. He just isn't good enough.

Fred is a solid starter in modern pressing football. But he needs to improve his touches/passes under pressure.
 
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