We were right to walk away from the deal last year. If we paid what Dortmund wanted then we continue to be taken for a ride by other clubs in future transfer windows. By waiting a year we've managed to save over 30m and acquire a player closer to his value.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
The current offer is 90m euros while last year Dortmund wanted 120m euros. Some might say that the owners could avoid getting their dividends throughout the Covid hit year but oh well
Meanwhile we spent the dosh on VDB, Pellistri and Diallo who barely got a sniff of football last season and will probably get less this season with Sancho around. Ole had to run Rashford to the ground with consequences of that probably seen in the future , we also spent a year without a real RW. That had repercussions on our season campaign with United ending trophy less and kicked early from the CL
The idiots on here will complain one way or another. Sign him this summer and the complaints are that it took us 12 months to complete the deal, or we sign him last summer and the same lot complain we overpaid. They’re idiots.
We would have been trophy-less regardless if we bought Sancho or not, just look at our coaching staff
Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that he was crazy overpriced last summer and paying whatever Dortmund asked would have been stupid. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but many people were happy with VDB and Diallo signings at the time. It's about time we try not to get absolutely fleeced like we usually do, I absolutely don't get the bashing of the club for us refusing to pay over £100m for a 20 year old. There are a lot of things we can complain about but this ain't one.I doubt Grant's on much even if we do give him another year. And if we do extend Mata's contract I hope it's on drastically reduced wages considering his role these days.
I don't mind Stretford Paddock myself.
Isnt Matas new contract more to do with keeping him on as a future exec?
I hear what you're saying mate we definitely needed a RW last year. Last summer I said we should just pay it as I've thought right wing has been the biggest gaping hole in the side for years.
But looking at the big picture if the Club has resolved to stop getting shafted in the transfer market on fees then I can see why they stood firm on their valuation. It hurt us short term no doubt, but maybe it will benefit the club long term.
Not necessarily true. Look at the fine margins in the Europa cup final. Or the accumulated fatigue in our first team because we didn't have enough top quality players to rotate, during the most fixture congested season in Premiership history due to covid.
As said the difference between last summer fee and this summer fee is around 30m euros. Those 30m aren't worth
a- spending an entire year without a top quality RW
b- running Rashford to the ground with possibly consequences later on in his career
c- ending being kicking out of the CL early on and without any trophies
The tragedy is that our bosses still got their pound of flesh in terms of dividends and the club still spent the money on players Ole refused to play let alone rely upon. In my opinion that yet another example of bad management at board level
I follow three fan youtube channels ie Stretford Paddock, the United Stand and my favourite the United people's TV. None of them had said that the way we handled the Sancho saga was great in any way. Quite honestly the only place were fans defend that is redcafe.
Last edited:
We would have been trophy-less regardless if we bought Sancho or not, just look at our coaching staff
The coaching staff lie under the manager's jurisdiction which in turn lie under the board/DOF jurisdiction. So if the coaches are shit then that reflects on the manager and in turn the board who stick to them. The difference between this year's value and last year value is of around 30m euros. That's less to what we spent on Diallo, Pellistri and VDB ie players Ole had barely ever played let alone trust. So ask yourself this simple question. Is it worth spending 1 year without a natural RW and running Rashford to the ground with potentially serious consequences to his career for 30m euros? Not to forget that a top quality RW would have made us more unpredictable. Sancho alone would not have made us win the EPL. However its not that controversial to say that we would have probably done better in the CL and possibly win a trophy or two.
Exactly my point. TalkSport and Sky were reporting that their understanding was it was a done deal. Quickly changed to City will submit a bid AFTER the Euro's . Hence they not signed anyone.
And my point still stands, wait till the actual transfer is actually done before giving them credit for it. It's embarrassing seeing how everybody acts like it's a done deal when similar things happened last season.
As long as we get the major transfers in so that they're ready for the first game of the season, it's good enough. If they leave it till the last day of the window, then it's all the same shit done by different people all over again.
Not in isolation but that's my point. If (and it's a big if) backing off Sancho last summer was part of a bigger policy to stop the club getting reamed on transfer fees then one or even two seasons where you don't do as well as you could have with big signings. Could be worth it long term if it results in clubs not trying to shaft United on fees anymore, or at least to the extent that they were. Let's remember here United don't have a bottomless pit of financially doped cash to buy players with. If we keep having to pay astronomical inflated fees for every player then obviously that means there is less money to spread around to strengthen the squad every summer.
I'm not necessarily trying to defend the clubs handling of the Sancho saga, just maybe playing devils advocate and looking at the situation form the clubs perspective.
For that to work then the club would have had to sign someone whose as good or nearly as good as Sancho and who in turn would be a solid alternative to him. United did that many many times back in the day. When we failed to sign Shearer we went on bringing Ole in instead. When we failed to sign Ronaldinho the club went on to bring Ronaldo instead. We didn't do that this time round. We went on buying 3 random guys, Ole seem to have zero trust in. The result was more money wasted, over reliance on a small group of players that were literally run to the ground and of course a team that was unsuited to seriously challenge for the trophies that truly matters.
The United of the past would never count the pennies on a top British + Irish talent it needs. We've seen us break the British transfer market so many times to get the player we wanted including a 17 year old Rooney whom, strictly speaking, we didn't need back in the day. Secondly we used to have far better communication between the board and the manager. I doubt that Ferguson was saddled with players whom he had zero intention to not play.
that's fair enough. However I insist, Sancho was last year's transfer. Most of the ground work was done last year and signing him now is more of an admittance that we messed up rather then a glorious moment for the club.
Question would you have paid £108m on one player during a pandemic at its peak?
Or do you think any other club would have done so??
If the club had the people in place to find top alternatives for Sancho on a cheaper price then the answer is no. However if the club had 80m in the bank, it was still in the position to pay dividends to the owners and it had enough money to waste money on 3 other random players whom the manager had no intention playing then it would have made sense getting him the player he wanted instead. Sancho would have finally filled that RW position, he could give some breathing space to Rashford once he needed it and of course he would make the manager happy. We all know what can happen when the manager isn't given the one player he asked for. Just ask Mourinho regarding Maguire.
No point arguing with @devilish - everything is always negative.
I don’t really see much point in continuing to analyse last seasons transfers.
the impending Sancho transfer is really positive.
I don’t really see much point in continuing to analyse last seasons transfers.
the impending Sancho transfer is really positive.
2 of those 3 random players have proved to be good buys in the short and medium term(Cavani, Amad) we still needed depth at the end of the day not just one player. At least this time Sancho will be joining a team with stronger depth instead of coming in with the expectation he'd be the saviour of an imbalanced Utd team
You talk as if Sancho would have been a guaranteed success without factoring in there's a genuine risk he'd have seriously struggled to make an impression. Look at the success rate of players that cost £100m plus only Mbappe can be counted as a guaranteed success(Neymar debatable) everyone else there has been a MASSIVE flop and they had all proved themselves to a higher level than Sancho(in Dembele's case same level) a big price tag comes with MASSIVE MASSIVE pressure and Sancho coming from a league players generally need time to adapt out of after joining the PL wouldn't have made him the guaranteed success you're saying. We'd have still finished 2nd. Outside there we probably get out of our CL group at best but likely not go past the Quarters meaning another trophyless season is an extra £30M worth that? At least now he'll be coming to a Utd team that's more balanced with stronger depth, hungry to win trophies after being so close to winning one and a fee that reflects his value well much as I like him he's NOT a £100m player
I havent yet talked about how it would have set a bad precedent for future negotiations but that's another topic completely
I should have been more clear. The 3 random players were VDB, Diallo and Pellistri. I am fascinated how you see Amad as a good buy considering that he had barely played, same as the two others.
I won't delve into Sancho's deal in detail. I think it has its fair of risks and I understand the reluctance to spend big on him. However United haven't had a top quality RW for years and was screaming for a top level RW.
a- spending a season with a clear flaw in the team that surely crippled our chances of a trophy
b- we ran Rashford to the ground with probably consequences of that popping later in his career
c- we have let our manager down.
All for 30m, money btw that was still spent (and more) on dividends to owners and on 3 players the manager seem to have no intention to play. That doesn't seem to be a shrewd move at all.
We need to thank our lucky stars that Real, PSG, Shitty or Chelsea weren't interested in him this year or we could have easily ended up in a bidding war with fees going to the roof.
Last seasons transfers could also come good this season after the getting to know you season. I liked our business last year, what I didn’t like was the management of those players, Telles aside. At least he was given a shot in some proper games.
Exactly this. It’s not just about saving £30m.
some posters seem to be obsessed on evaluating the deal just based on this ‘£30m saving’ - it’s not that simple.
we need to be more prudent in paying transfer fees, we need to tell clubs no. We haven’t seemed to have done that since fergie left.
Diallo hasn't played much but the few times he has the quality is there for anyone to see. He'll prove to be a good buy long term and with Sancho at least we'll have TWO RWs not just one as Greenwood is a CF. VDB was an alternative to Grealish who was valued at £70-80m after Villa escaped relegation. Nobody here would have paid that for what was supposed to be a depth signing that's an upgrade on Lingard/Pereira when Donny with CL experience for half the price off the back of a good season with Ajax was available. Towards the end of the season he was showing his quality and still just 24 he'll get better
Anyway the mistake we made wasn't refusing to pay that fee but not walking away earlier and reinvesting in other areas like CB or DM that would have still improved the team to a reasonable extent. We could have also maybe brought in a short term RW on loan like Bayern did with Perisic whilst bidding their time to get Sane at a cheaper fee(sounds like a familiar tactic a certain team did right?) We didn't need to spend £108m on one player to guarantee astronomical improvement on the team
It's also possible the player only wanted Utd you realize that? I don't believe someone as talented as him wasn't contacted by other teams behind the scenes by his agent over the past year regardless lack of competition for him isn't something we should be squabbling over. We had a free run at Bruno and he's still been one of our best signings in ages
Managers don't like getting players they don't want. Some cause a scene and kick a fuss like Mou did. Others might treat these players as if they don't exist. Either way its the result of bad management
Last edited:
I think the only question is over DVDB. Amad had only played 29 mins of men’s football (or something ridiculously low) before he joined - and did so part way through the season.
players do take time to settle/ acclimatise. I think this season we will see the best of those players, Pellistri aside, who I assume we will loan again.
yet it’s documented that Ole spoke to DVDB prior to him signing for the club, and sold the club to him.
It's not the first time that a manager wasn't able to get his no 1 target. Sir Alex wanted Shearer and he settled for Ole and Cole. He wanted Ronaldinho and he got Ronaldo instead. That's normal in football. United's mistake was that of not bringing in a viable alternative to Sancho that Ole would accept last summer. Instead we squandered the money on three players (2 of whom were basically panic buys) that the manager didn't trusted and quite possibly didn't wanted in the first place. That lead to the chain reaction mentioned before.
I very much doubt that Sancho only wanted United. The guy left to Germany at quite a young age which shows that he is quite open minded and ambitious. We just happened to be lucky enough that our main competitors are either passing from horrible time financially wise or are well stocked on the wings.
Do you reckon they were all club signings? If that’s the case then what is Sancho and Varane/Torres this year? I think it’s too easy to see a signing as a failure and then blame the club for buying over the managers head. Maybe Amad and Pellistri were signed over his head as a long term strategy. Fair enough.
Ole signed James and didn’t put him in while Rashford was basically playing on fumes. He’s just a really cautious or stubborn manager it seems like. I think he also wanted to galvanise his best 11-14 players Give them that untouchable status and reinforce that he’s loyal to them and it’s going to be hard to break into the team past them, he’ll back you through poor form if you buy into what he wants from you. I don’t really agree with it either but it is what it is while he’s here. He’s still doing better long term squad building than LVG or Jose… I think Ole just choses the safest option every time and it’s been quite effective in one sense. The camaraderie is there again but If we want to take the next step he needs to use the squad a lot better.
Last edited:
Or wait a year until Dortmund realize United aren't going to pay a silly price and they have to readjust their valuation.
Pellestri and Diallo are/were not ready.
Bosnich
What club are we talking about? There's tons of football executies in the Premier League with background from investment banking or other industries.
As rule of thumb managers tend to at least give players they spent good money upon a reasonable shot. That is done for selfish reasons as well. Imagine if your boss gave the nod for an expensive equipment you had asked for only for you to barely use it. That reflects badly on you more then it reflects badly on the equipment you've just asked for. Its difficult to say how United operates from the outside but from what we hear from the people who were on the inside it doesn't seem to operate efficiently. We seem to have a rather moody board who occasionally decide not to support the manager and do its own thing.
Who are two panic buys you're referring to?
we're going in circles here. Regarding Bosnich, maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but Sir Alex first agreed and then tried to pull out of the deal once he noticed how unprofessional the guy was in training. At that point it was too late.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/23/sir-alex-ferguson-mark-bosnich-manchester-united
Diallo and Pellistri. The former in particular. He was at a whisker away from signing to Parma on loan. We had to agree a relatively huge financial package deal for him because of that.
If you look at Oles over use of certain players: he finds someone he likes he gives them all the matches he can to stake their claim in till they are out. Lingard and pereira are another two that were played right up until someone better came along.
Martial played every game he could last season despite being woefully out of form and then Cavani totally took over. Now Martial looks to be on the way out…
Was he doing something similar with Rashford with Sancho now waiting in the wings? The juries out on that one for now. Rashford is also versatile and decently productive
DDG to Henderson….
Matic played every game after lockdown, Barely gets a look in now and could possibly be sold if we get a decent offer.
I definitely think he’s making it as hard as possible to break into the team/giving as good of a chance as he can to players before moving them aside… trial and error but over a season and not just after a poor match or two.
It’s certainly been hard to watch the same players make the same mistakes game after game but at the same time players can’t complain they didn’t get a shot. I reckon VDB will come in for McT/Bruno rotation a lot more often next season and depending on how he does one of him or Mct will probably be sold next summer and so on…
Maybe. However I very much doubt that Rashford would lose his first team place, unless, of course, he need an operation and a long recovery afterwards.
This is true. But by not getting someone in for last season, we made it too difficult to win anything.
Also, Sancho's fee will now be counted as spending for this season. If we still have a budget of, say, £150m net for this season, after the purchase of Sancho then great, we have a decent chance of building something. If not, we'll continue to be miles behind city.
Yeah it seems so.
Edwards agreed a deal for Bosnich without telling Ferguson. SAF never really wanted him.
https://punditarena.com/football/robredmond/man-united-mark-bosnich-alex-ferguson-peter-schmeichel/