Manchester City banned from CL for 2 seasons and fined 30 million euros | CAS - Ban lifted, fined 10 million

It would be incredible if that Aguero moment became meaningless with them stripped of the title. :D

It's not going to happen though. The Premier League are not going to want to alter their history like that. They are much more likely to impose a points penalty this season, or in the next one, and of course help themselves to another healthy serving of oil money by way of fines.
 
Red Keane said:
My post was trying to explain why despite being a United fan; I am against City being punished for violating FFP and why I am against FFP in general.

I would agree however that if they where going to act against FFP (which they have done even if they pretended otherwise); they should have never agreed their peace deal with UEFA in the first place. Because not only did the deal undermine their attempts to establish City as a top european club (and I would argue enable the El Classico Clubs to monopolise the CL), considering the financial resources they have and legal case against FFP, they didn't need to agree to it in the first place.

One hopes they have learnt that lesson.
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Agree with you FFP is nonsense, but then I’m incredibly petty so anything that hurts a rival is good in my book.

What’s with all the Astros bollocks, can someone ELI5 it for me or knock it off, pls? :)
 
What's the time frame on an outcome on this? IE date to appeal by and final decision time.
 
Xeno said:
They've cultivated a good relationship with the newspapers over the years - their reporter hospitality is miles better than ours, plus whatever under the table stuff they might also do. They have a load of journalists in their corner to write pro-City articles and puff pieces, but Im not sure that will last forever; if they smell blood they’ll turn on them.
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does makes you wonder why it took German media to be the whistleblowers, wheras out media thrive on a good corrupt scandal. I guess it taints the premier league product aswell
 
Red Keane said:
From my perspective; this is a crooked decision made by a crooked organisation for crooked reasons, a decision I hope finally compells the Shieks who own Man City finally take legal action against UEFA to try and overturn FFP.

As for why I hold this view; this is why:

1: If UEFA was willing to provide a level playing field for all clubs to compete in; it would be a lot more effective if they required all media coverage to be both free to air & freely available to all (thus killing off Broadcasting Revenue), ban all sponsorship (thus killing off Sponsorship Revenue), reintroduce gate sharing, introduce a low maximum cap of ticket prices and require all clubs to be owned by their supporters.

Because those 5 measures are the only way a true level playing field between football clubs can be established.

Since UEFA are unwilling to do any of this (and coupled with the evidence that's out there); it's clear to see that FFP is nothing more than a protection racket designed to protect the established clubs no matter what the cost it brings to the beautiful game.

2: Which brings onto why FFP is a said protection racket; now we can all agree that the modern game is increasingly dominated by money and thus it has become increasingly harder for upstart clubs to challenge the established clubs (unless they really screw themselves really badly as the Milan clubs have done), let alone win trophies against those clubs.

I mean we have seen numerous clubs do the right thing, invest in youth, prospects & potential talents with the aim of eventually building a great side. Now sure those clubs ended up establishing great sides and won a few trophies along the way, but do you what happened to each and every one of those sides?

They got raided by bigger richer clubs in a better position to win trophies.

Heck even Tottenham is dangerously close to being in that position themselves...

Thus it's clear to see that the only way any club can challenge the established clubs (no matter what else they do) and join the footballing elites is though major capital investments (including the willingness to take losses for many years by their owners) into said club.

3: The problem is though; FFP pretty much makes it impossible to spend the hundreds of millions (or even billions) needed to get a club to join the elites.

Thus it ultimately makes sure that the current established clubs stay as they are without any prospect of anyone else challenging their status, which in turn makes the various National Leagues of Europe & Champions League even less competitive than it would otherwise be without FFP.

It's gets even worse though, because besides the fact this ban (if upheld) will effectively turn the CL into an El Classico SuperCup in all but name (until recently, it was heading towards that direction) & enable Liverpool to dominate the PL*; it will also make life easier for many of those established clubs (including ourselves) who are owned/run by people more focused on milking the fans rather than on any ambition to win.

Mainly because without the likes of Man City being around; there will be less competition for the European Places (Thus giving them even less reasons to invest in their teams) & there will be less fear of losing their best players to more ambitious clubs.

Thus while I agree that the real intentions behind the Al Nahyan's ownership of Man City are nothing more than a PR scheme to cover up their sins; in an age where there are too many bad owners and a lack of competition within European Football. Any attempt to both discourage ambitious owners & increased competition within European Football (such as this ban) should never be considered a good thing.

*Because seriously; who will be left to challenge them?
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FFP may not be perfect, and of course there may be changes once the City issue dies down, but the principle is sound. Sport in general thrives on being competitive, with outcomes being uncertain, and this is something that can easily be damaged by rich outside interests coming in and basically buying success for their own outfits while pricing others out. If anything, FFP has arrived too late, and there is a degree of having shut the door after the horse has bolted. There is an unhealthy amount of money in the game which has just pushed up the cost base. One of the consequences of this is that non-elite clubs find it hard to attract top players, or even to retain the ones they have developed (yes, they might get a nice transfer fee, but this merely serves to confirm their position as lower tier clubs).

To some of your specific points: -

1: If UEFA was willing to provide a level playing field for all clubs to compete ... It's never going to be a level playing field at any given time as some clubs will be bigger and richer than others. UEFA understands this, and it doesn't have a target of somehow making all clubs broadly equivalent in terms of strength. It is simply trying to set out what is fair and what is unfair practice when it comes to growing a club in order to protect the integrity of its competitions.

2: Which brings onto why FFP is a said protection racket ... If FFP was only supported by the older elite clubs as a means of suppressing the ambition of the nouveau riche clubs, I very much doubt it would have gained the approval of its members (the vast majority of whom are not in the elite bracket). If a club has grown its business over many years, and is now reaping the rewards of that effort, then that's fair enough. It remains possible, though admittedly a difficult and long process, for aspiring clubs to grow themselves, and it remains possible for elite clubs to fall from grace. If clubs do have the good fortune to attract rich investors, there are plenty of ways in which they can take advantage of that without running into issues with FFP (e.g. by improving their youth and scouting infrastructure, or by growing their commercial operations), and these will accelerate their development in a way which is fair.

3: The problem is though; FFP pretty much makes it impossible to spend the hundreds of millions (or even billions) needed to get a club to join the elites ... The sudden arrival of vast sums of money from outside of the game invested directly on players is massively inflationary (both wages and transfer fees), so damages every other club, and distorts the competition. If FFP makes this more difficult, then this is precisely what it was intended to do, and rightly so.

... effectively turn the CL into an El Classico SuperCup in all but name (until recently, it was heading towards that direction) & enable Liverpool to dominate the PL ... This action against City will enhance the competitiveness of the EPL, not reduce it. Liverpool's present position is the result of good planning, good coaching and a great tem ethic, in other words just the sorts of things that should be the foundations of success. It's a little bit early to talk about domination given that Liverpool are about to win their first title for 30 years, and if they do go on and enjoy a spell where they are the top team in English football it will be a result of the work they've done to get to this point. It's not as if Liverpool enjoy a financial advantage, and there is nothing to stop a club like ours from closing the gap. With the exception of Liverpool, the rest of the league has been more competitive and unpredictable this season than for many years.
 
BananaBoat said:
It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
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Is there any actual evidence of this? Like ever? Aside from snide articles from journalists and self-loathing clowns of the caf, since we have been shit, has there been ANY evidence at all to suggest that we are an undesirable destination? It’s as if everyone, everyone who observes the football world from a distance that is, and has no clue about the REAL machinations EXPECT this to be true, because it makes logical sense to them. Yet in the actual real world, we have generally signed who we want, and on the few occasions we have gone against your club for a player, we have invariably won. This shit just keeps getting repeated in the hope that it would be true, or in the expectation that it will be true, but it is far from the reality.

And you’re on the hard stuff if you think there ar ‘at least 4’ more desirable teams than us. I’d be surprised if there is at least one, but there certainly isn’t 4.
 
2 man midfield said:
I'd take the past being left alone if they got relegated to League 2. Anyone else?
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Their recent past should be expunged - when future generations Wikipedia (or whatever the future equivalent will be) or look up Premier League title winners or FA Cup/League Cup etc winners, the years and titles City won anything should show 'No title awarded'.

For the Premier League, that's basically your lot and us, and as wonderful (and heartbreaking in some cases) the campaigns of 2013/2014 and 2018/2019 were domestically (as I'm sure 2011/2012 was for your lot), I'm fine with the title not being awarded to anyone.
It's more their FA Cup/League Cup finalists I feel sorry for (and by extension in the Premier League, whoever they screwed out of a chance at Europe).

The alternative is to just award all those titles to 2nd place/runners up.

But more importantly, on top of all that, they should be thrown down a few leagues.
 
BananaBoat said:
It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
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So, your owners have used your club to try to wipe the shit of their arse and fingers and you don‘t just thank them, you also believe that they have done you a favour?
 
Definitely something dodgy about City... didn't they recently hire the guy that was deeply involved in creating the fine details over FFP?
 
MackRobinson said:
This is simply not true. You are completely ignoring examples like Portsmouth and Blackburn. You are completely ignoring the financial implications of a wealthy owner saddling a club with huge contracts and then simply deciding to turn off the money tap.
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portsmouth and blackburn attained success with their owners though however fleeting and then too we are not strictly talking sugar daddy type ownership here. you should see how the pompey fans at the time felt around 2007 when they were signing a lot of players they would not otherwise have been able to sign. not all non plcs are necessarily sugar daddy pet projects. Newcastle fans still complain of Mike ashley and he is not what you would call a sugar daddy at all.

MackRobinson said:
Leicester City didn't engage in financial doping to get where they were. Neither did Sheffield United. This notion that you need a sugar daddy owner to stand a chance is false and reeks of glory hunting.
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you should read up on how leicester weren't ffp compliant until 2016, it includes the period after their title win. this thread has the information in it. it wasn't completely some feel-good romantic story of a club against all odds doing it without any investment from outside at all.

MackRobinson said:
They benefitted from being the most successful club up until that point. The commercialization of the game was chance but no fault of theirs. Let's not forget that every PL has benefited from the commercialization of the game. Not just United or Liverpool
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it may not be a fault of theirs but it is still less disingenuous to recognize the chance nature of what occurred then and seeing that it is not all about trying to preserve your own status quo now which is just hypocritical. there is luck and acting like someone with a feifdom who doesn't want someone else rising up. And certainly with talks of a European super league which will probably happen sooner rather than later this will become even more evident. everyone did benefit yes, but some more than others.

MackRobinson said:
It's neither selfish nor a double standard. It's the fecking reality of the situation. Sport is not designed to give everyone a trophy or to punish those who win too much. It's a competitive endeavor where there will be successful outliers. What you are proposing is allowing the increased risk of clubs becoming insolvent and potentially stipping fans of something they cherish. And I'm the one in denial...
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sport is not designed to calcify the existing hierarchy nor take away the aspect of someone being able to achieve glory and success tomorrow even if it seems improbable today and vice versa. if it isn't possible to do so - as now over 2 decades seems to show - its quite likely a romantic and far fetched notion that many just don't ascribe to. why not ask yourself that, that is as much a reality. Clubs going insolvent is neither here nor there, there's as much chance of a club getting fecked over by a PLC board and it's decisions in the long run as that of a sugar daddy's whims. one isn't inherently that much more nobler than the other.
 
Its obvious City have been breaking the rules.

Over the last 5 years their net spend is more than Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool combined.

How is that even remotely possible without the owner pumping in large sums of money by the backdoor?
 
GazTheLegend said:
It's actually a ridiculous decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36706262

If UEFA were so against all this state ownership stuff, why did they allow Silvio Berlusconi to own AC Milan, or allow the principality of Monaco to run a tax haven for players, and that sort of thing?

Like - it's NOW they choose to step in? Nobody will ever convince me that all of this isn't because the City fans boo the UEFA anthem, which I can 100% get behind. feck FIFA, feck UEFA, hypricitical shits and rotten from the core upwards and always have been. Never sat well with me that they literally admitted they fixed draws and nobody ever denied it and they just laughed at it happening in the 2000's. Ferguson called it and he was right.

Now I realise it sounds sort of weird as a Manchester United fan and Manc, but I actually quite like the Stockport bluenoses despite everything else, their fans are alright. Thing is, until they stop targeting City and instead try to actually be fair and punish PSG as well as all the rest of them (Juventus are 100% about some dodginess, they're running at some stupid 80% of gross revenue level right now, there's something behind that), then it looks like victimisation to me.
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Bollocks. They've cheated their way to titles. UEFA might be the first organisation to punish them but they shouldn't be the last.
 
Reddevildans said:
Cant believe not much has been made in the media of cheatchester city winning trophies on the back of..cheating (probably reflects on them being such a small and insignificant club anyway). I know they still have time to respond but everyone knew what was going on. I wont be surprised this ban is overturned as the football authorities are run by crooks. They have a fantastic team, manager and play great football but thier success will always seem fabricated.
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It reflects on their very large PR budget.
 
This is all going to end in them paying a large fine. Which is pointless given they have so much oil money.
What it does do is Tarnish the game. Its ugly. Its ugly that theyll get away with it.
 
BananaBoat said:
It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter? For you lot it definetely does, you might actually get into CL...

If we get cleared, this wishful thinking thread can go into the muck, as according to the letter of the law we will be innocent. Like OJ is :). Ended up paying a hefty fine after the civil case but still walked free.

Personally I think 2 yrs ban will be overturned and nothing will happen as we will defend by all means.

Even if it won't and even if we end up in League Two, we will come back. Majority of us seen the club wandering through lower leagues, we will manage, won't we?

But now... Endless trunks of oil money guys, endless trunks. We can buy everyone and everything, like you could when Sky streamlined cash towards United in the 90's.

If it comes to an unlikely event of player exodus, you won't even have a sniff of a single one of them, will you? At this moment in time there are at least 4 clubs in Prem much more attractive for top top top players. None of yours will get nto our or dippers squad.

See you in few weeks after CAS suspends the ban until the case will be looked at...
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Ermmm ok. So you’re happy that your club has been branded a cheat then?
The thing is Relegation to league 2 (if it happened) could be devastating for your club this time. Especially if you have one or two of your £100k per week earners decide they don’t want to leave or no one wants to purchase them. You’re probably paying a squad player now the same wage as your entire wage bill in 1999, so I wouldn’t be too sure that you be alright if the relegation stuff happened.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Bollocks. They've cheated their way to titles. UEFA might be the first organisation to punish them but they shouldn't be the last.
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Not Bollox at all. Far from it.

not for a minute defending the boos, but uefa have sat on their hands a million times, whilst dodgy business has gone on and they have done nothing, especially lenient with Italian clubs, lubed up by FIAT, Berlesconi, the mob etc, to say nothing of their most blatant bribery of referees in European and no doubt domestic competitions as well

100% behind them getting on Ciddys case but they’re pretty selective.
 
BananaBoat said:
It is quite obvious that we did cook the books. Maybe still are doing, but does it really matter?
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This is simply one of the most incredible openings to a post I've read. Could this have been written without Trump and Johnson happening beforehand? Perhaps not. A sign of the times.
 
The Irish Connection said:
It already is meaningless really :devil:
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The only meaning is that it stopped us from winning it. That’s all anyone cared about. Same with Liverpool last year. It just meant that last year’s league was written off.

But now that City can’t get anywhere near Liverpool anyway despite all their cheating, the footballing world has no more use for them and it’s time to go.
 
Red Keane said:
It's gets even worse though, because besides the fact this ban (if upheld) will effectively turn the CL into an El Classico SuperCup in all but name (until recently, it was heading towards that direction) & enable Liverpool to dominate the PL*

*Because seriously; who will be left to challenge them?
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I disagree @Red Keane

I think United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea would all push Liverpool depending on club planning and management.

feck, Newcastle if they ever sort their ownership and management out. Why not Leicester even?

There's much more chance of teams catching up on Liverpool than there ever are the likes of Manchester City if they are just allowed to spend to their hearts content. The only reason City are not doing 3 in a row is because:

a) Klopp is a bonefide managerial genius

and b) City have somewhat "tightened" the purse strings due to this investigation, leaving Pep with a defence he was not at all happy about.

Kept unchecked, City will absolutely dominate English football, make no mistake about it. City have hidden so much according to the leaks, just imagine what they'd be up to if nothing was preventing them? I'd imagine some Neymar-esque stupidity would be happening, maybe even with some of Liverpool's top players. If City dominate to that degree, other clubs will occasionally reach for the stars and financially cripple themselves and eventually the league would lose all credibility, loss of fans, loss of TV income, which would leave lots of smaller clubs completely financially ruined.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea.

feck, Newcastle if they ever sort their ownership and management out. Hell why not Leicester?

There's much more chance of teams catching up on Liverpool than there ever are the likes of Manchester City if they are just allowed to spend to their hearts content. The only reason City are not doing 3 in a row is because:

a) Klopp is a bonefide managerial genius

and b)

• City have somewhat "tightened" the purse strings due to this investigation, leaving Pep with a defence he was not at all happy about.

Kept unchecked, City will absolutely dominate English football.
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I think since Friday that has been proven correct, point B that you make I mean.

I think they have known this has been coming for a while and have reduced their spending a bit in anticipation. As you say, if they were allowed to spend to their hearts content they would dominate every season, domestically at the very least.

As much as I dislike him, Klopp has proven he is an excellent manager the last couple of seasons too. But I still don't like him :lol:
 
So if they take the titles off City then Gerrard and Carragher will be premiership Champs while on our side we can give Winners medals to Lingard , Bailly and Sanchez .

Starting to hope this doesn't happen
 
lsd said:
So if they take the titles off City then Gerrard and Carragher will be premiership Champs while on our side we can give Winners medals to Lingard , Bailly and Sanchez .

Starting to hope this doesn't happen
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Imagine Carragher trying to convince Neville that he's a legitimate champion
 
lsd said:
So if they take the titles off City then Gerrard and Carragher will be premiership Champs while on our side we can give Winners medals to Lingard , Bailly and Sanchez .

Starting to hope this doesn't happen
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horsechoker said:
Imagine Carragher trying to convince Neville that he's a legitimate champion
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Carragher retired in 2012-13 season, so he won't get winners medal even if Gerrard gets one.
 
Wondering if we'll see City sue UEFA in regular court.

Many legal avenues they can take. Lawyers going to busy I think.

At least some possiblity they could win too. Not sure what would happen if they win huge damages and put UEFA out of business.

Also possible they'll destroy FFP in its present form.
 
horsechoker said:
Imagine Carragher trying to convince Neville that he's a legitimate champion
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Carra had retired the season before. He wasn’t involved even if we were retrospectively awarded the title for 13/14.

Is there a precedent for how many points they could be docked? 3 of their 4 title wins were very close anyway.
 
Mb194dc said:
Wondering if we'll see City sue UEFA in regular court.

Many legal avenues they can take. Lawyers going to busy I think.

At least some possiblity they could win too. Not sure what would happen if they win huge damages and put UEFA out of business.

Also possible they'll destroy FFP in its present form.
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0 chance of them winning the case, UEFA set the rules and City are regular offenders, so they are getting banned.

They agreed to comply with the rules, so there isn't much they can do apart from arguing against the documents obtained by hacks.
 
roonster09 said:
0 chance of them winning the case, UEFA set the rules and City are regular offenders, so they are getting banned.

They agreed to comply with the rules, so there isn't much they can do apart from arguing against the documents obtained by hacks.
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Agreed, and even the hacking is a separate case. UEFA are acting upon information that has come to light showing City have been offending, ergo they will be punished.
 
Laughing when I learn that City are banned from the CL....

Then I learn that Gerrard might get a winners medal; 'This is an absolute outrage! ...truly an injustice of the worst kind. It can't happen.' :mad:
 
Irwin99 said:
Laughing when I learn that City are banned from the CL....

Then I learn that Gerrard might get a winners medal; 'This is an absolute outrage! ...truly an injustice of the worst kind. It can't happen.' :mad:
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I think its funny. Retrospectively giving him a medal he won't want and it'll shit all over this being the first title in 30 years.
 
One thing that seems to be undermentioned is that by cheating their way into the CL, City took money away from clubs that would have otherwise been in the CL or reached higher rankings. Within the FFP realm this isn't a victimless offense and over 6 or 7 years we are talking about maybe 500m€ received by City that could have been shared between clubs that ended up being just outside of CL spots.
 
It would be ridiculous to move eveeryone up a space for that season. What sort of compensation would the team that missed out on the CL get?
Just knock the number off Cidy's total.
 
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