Seems like he's finally got our ''Attack, attack, attack'' message.
LVG: Man Utd is a commercial club, not like Bayern Munich.
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LVG was pretty much sacked everywhere, I do not understand why he is so bitter at us.
And of course, if somebody asks Bayern board right now, if they want to swap United with Bayern, they would run and come. Every club is in for money, just that its more visible for us because we make more money. I doubt there is any club out there for charity.
No, then he would have complained his bosses dint let him do his work on his own, they interfered with the transfer targets and his 'Philiosophy'.
And of course, if somebody asks Bayern board right now, if they want to swap United with Bayern, they would run and come. Every club is in for money, just that its more visible for us because we make more money. I doubt there is any club out there for charity.
No, then he would have complained his bosses dint let him do his work on his own, they interfered with the transfer targets and his 'Philiosophy'.
And what makes you think we do not put football at top of our priorities or Bayern put higher priority in football than us?! If anything, we put higher priority on football than the likes of Bayern.
Yeah, we're all commercial whores but a team that's playing at Allianz Arena is all about tradition.
Also, look at all this tradition:
The T is for die Tradition obviously.
Also, look at all this tradition:
The T is for die Tradition obviously.
K. First of all, I have to say I was wrong thinking LVG had more dignity. Feel free to name and shame me.
Now my take on LVG on this. Unbelievable lack of self awareness. He was not aware the more he talked the more he showed how stupid he is? Look. He talk about football and money, yet he ruled himself out of the job by choosing money instead the freedom to continue coaching. And that's after all the talk about looking to retire and us being his last job. If he is so passionate about football now, why is he doing interview instead of getting back to coaching.
Is he trying to use Bastian to bash Mourinho when at the same time he said Bayern sold us a fit one? I meant so he is admitting he broke Bastian beyond repair prior to Mourinho right? Yet have the nerve to spin it around. Even the whole Bastian was given favored privilege which turned to misunderstand between him and other players then Mourinho, was the work of LVG himself. Unfit, injury prone, high wage, not even with the squad, let alone being big character on the pitch (Rooney
)
All in all, he is like his philosophy is a mess for anyone to comprehend.
Now my take on LVG on this. Unbelievable lack of self awareness. He was not aware the more he talked the more he showed how stupid he is? Look. He talk about football and money, yet he ruled himself out of the job by choosing money instead the freedom to continue coaching. And that's after all the talk about looking to retire and us being his last job. If he is so passionate about football now, why is he doing interview instead of getting back to coaching.
Is he trying to use Bastian to bash Mourinho when at the same time he said Bayern sold us a fit one? I meant so he is admitting he broke Bastian beyond repair prior to Mourinho right? Yet have the nerve to spin it around. Even the whole Bastian was given favored privilege which turned to misunderstand between him and other players then Mourinho, was the work of LVG himself. Unfit, injury prone, high wage, not even with the squad, let alone being big character on the pitch (Rooney
)All in all, he is like his philosophy is a mess for anyone to comprehend.
If man utd did not care for our football, you would still be here louis. He seems to be side passing and back tracking alot and apparently without any goals in his speech.
He isn't wrong, we're a money club just as much as any other. Our Identity left when SAF did.
Of course we are a commercial club and have been for the last 20 years at least, which is a bit shit but has positives as well. The problem with the bitter old pan face’s statement is that Bayern are as much so if not worse.
Exactly
Yeah, we're all commercial whores but a team that's playing at Allianz Arena is all about tradition.
Also, look at all this tradition:
The T is for die Tradition obviously.
Exactly
No mention of how well he treated Victor Valdes. If only Van Gaal was as half as entertaining on the pitch as he is off it. Clearly long paid up by united now.
SAF was quite financially savvy himself. The Glazers are quite football people when compared to the likes of Edwards.
Not sure if you got the wrong end of the stick here, 'cause what you said in reply to my comment doesn't make sense. I have no problem with United making/spending money, my gripe (although a small one) is more to do with how they sell the club to players by making a huge push towards the commercial aspect/social media aspect. Perhaps i didn't make that clear.
When it comes to player recruitment i just get the sense, and i think it's valid to think this way, that for Woodward and United the commercial aspect of signing a player and what that can do for said players' public profile is too much of a priority for me. They're obsessed with marketing these players and the social media metrics of it all. Whether it's through retweets, likes, shares or whatever the feck else. It's also a competition with them as we seen with the signing of Sanchez. When he signed there was a big deal made about the retweets they received and how it "beat" Neymar. Who gives a feck.
I just think it's too much emphasis from United and something i don't particularly like. That's basically my point. Got nothing to do with us making money, per se.
As for the bolded part, I'm not sure how you inferred that from what i said.
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I dont see much wrong with what he's saying. He's actually spot on about the commercial side of it. What other club would allow the world record transfer leave and replace him with a free transfer and a bloke we were going to sign anyway? There's a definite balance between success on the pitch and commercial success (we had that for years). But we havent got that balance right in years.
Do we pay big money for anyone who isnt a "name." We'd have had a fantastic Fifa side with the signings we've made for big money.
Do we pay big money for anyone who isnt a "name." We'd have had a fantastic Fifa side with the signings we've made for big money.
If LVG is saying that we don’t have enough football people in senior management, then he has a point. But regarding Bayern-
1 They are one of the top 4 revenue generating clubs in the world.
2. They did not have to deal with Abu Dhabi buying 1860 München.
As for Schweinsteiger, the less said, the better about his pension-boosting stint at United.
1 They are one of the top 4 revenue generating clubs in the world.
2. They did not have to deal with Abu Dhabi buying 1860 München.
As for Schweinsteiger, the less said, the better about his pension-boosting stint at United.
You yourself have called for a "football man" to be made DoF or something along those lines, so managers have someone who understands the game a bit better than Woodward over them, have you not?
The continued and consistent success of our club over the last few decades has largely veen driven by our ability to grow and sustain the commercial side of things. It enables us to compete in an ever changing aggressive market on the football side. What we are seeing now is that the market has changed beyond recognition and our commercial stuff only serves to keep us up there, rather than on top. Why wouldn't we focus a lot on money. Its what brings success after all.
Waiting for his fanboys to defend him as usual and says he's right.
This clown hasn't stopped attacking us for few months now. Each time he speaks he throws bunch of nonsense about our club but fanboys keep defending him.
This clown hasn't stopped attacking us for few months now. Each time he speaks he throws bunch of nonsense about our club but fanboys keep defending him.
You'll be surprised actually. I have most of them on the ignore anyway..
I don't see bitterness. If you took the name LVG away and just saw an anonymous post, most would agree with what he said.
Just as Bayern re-invented themselves many years ago, United are a totally different beast to the 60s and 70s, as well. Interestingly, there used to be an image of style with United that attracted sponsorship and fans, then when Fergie took over the mass of trophies attracted sponsors and more fans, be interesting whether we are moving in to a period of history (bit like the 70s, 80s and 90s where hope rather than expectation takes over). We certainly do not have the style, and we are not exactly knocking on the door of the big trophies. So who knows.
Think there's some merit in what LVG says. United have lost some of their focus in recent years and we are very money-orientated. Hopefully things are improving on that front; the post-Ferguson struggles have given us a jolt and hopefully blown away a bit of complacency. The huge revamp of the scouting network certainly suggests we're taking steps to tighten up the football side of things.
In general, however, what else can we do? If we hadn't developed the revenue models we've got now, we'd have no chance of competing with City, PSG or Chelsea. The money we make means we can compete with the fake sugardaddy clubs without becoming one ourselves.
In general, however, what else can we do? If we hadn't developed the revenue models we've got now, we'd have no chance of competing with City, PSG or Chelsea. The money we make means we can compete with the fake sugardaddy clubs without becoming one ourselves.
Because our owners bought the club for money, they literally knew nothing about football. Also if you read until the end, I said that it wasn't black or white, you can put money at the top without neglecting football.
Didn't say much wrong. (Understandably) a bit salty about things. Still like him and wish him the best.
Would of won us the prem by now. Yeah right
I wanted a DOF because i felt that most managers arent used/trained to cover all aspects of saf former job and might abuse of their role to give a job to their boys :cough: bastian :cough: valdes :cough: even though they are finished. We therefore needed someone who knew the game and could step in to defend our interest if that happened
Funny enough this clown mentions Bayern who humiliated and sacked him midseason as he was leading them straight to not qualifying to CL.
The man is a certifiable moron.
Yeah. So we stick with our manager longer to give them chance to save their seasons being commercial driven than club tradition/football matter. We could have earned more qualifying for CL the following year than even winning EL in reality.Just a case of give them an inch and they go a mile. LVG is worse than Moyes in this, but damn, how can these people lack all kind of self awareness.Funny enough this clown mentions Bayern who humiliated and sacked him midseason as he was leading them straight to not qualifying to CL.
Both are deluded who think they deserved more chance while in fact we took long time to sack both.
OK. But if I remember our (very interesting - and that is not sarcastic) exchanges on this topic in the past, there is a bit more to it than that. I think I do remember rightly because you made a very interesting and convincing case that could not be summed up in a couple of sentences. It was all to do with having money people and football people and managers and a balance of power between them so that in any given situation each factor was considered and weighed against other factors and sense would prevail. The money interest and the football interest would always be considered while neither would always get priority. Each situation would be judged on its own particular merits. (And of course a strong working relationship would flourish and nobody would feel territorial or threatened by anyone else - which was always my main worry with this idealistic sounding plan.)
I think LVG actually has at least part of a point here. Not necessarily that Bayern are so righteous, which I can see you strongly disagree with - fair enough. But that, as manager of United, with only Woodward above you, there is an absence of "football people". I do think we put a bit too much emphasis on commercial considerations. I understand we have to think about these commercial considerations, but I am not 100% convinced we have the right balance at this point. We sign Sanchez but seem to have spent more time thinking about his unveiling (which, to be fair, was awesome) than where he is going to fit into the team. Im sure itll all work out in this instance, but still.
Anyway, I am not defending LVG's record at United. It wasnt good enough. Im glad he is no longer manager, for sure. But that doesnt mean everything he says, every observation he makes, now that he has gone, is inherently wrong, or necessarily born entirely out of bitterness. For one thing, I imagine the reason he keeps talking about us is because journalists keep asking about us. And journalists keep asking about us because we are United, big news, click-generators in chief.
No offence to other Dutch tossers or tossers in general?
Just that one. General tossing perfectly healthy in the privacy of your own home
It's about more than the manager. LVG for example did a poor job, but he was doing a poor job and causing damage for longer than he ever should have been allowed to.
When Moyes was in charge the club failed to secure signings. Mourinho has moaned to the press more than once about it taking too long for things our of his hands to get sorted out.
Ferguson was keen to point out what an important role Gill used to play in allowing him to do his job.
The idea it's just down to the manager is extremely naive. If it was just down to mourinho he wouldn't have players with contracts running down. He wouldn't have waited until after the season has started to sign Pogba, etc.
These guys get it. What else is United to do in the era of petroclubs and oligarch play toys? It’s easy for someone speaking from Bayern’s (or Juve’s) perspective because they are just about unchallenged in their league and do not have to content with rivals with unlimited money from questionable sources.
The only answer is to maximize your commercial income from being one of the most supported clubs in the world and use that to close the financial gap. It was that or be crowded out. It might make for a more commercial structure at the club, but it’s part of the soup.
Funny enough this clown mentions Bayern who humiliated and sacked him midseason as he was leading them straight to not qualifying to CL.
That is because he wasn't talking about his spell at the club - he was talking about the way the club is run; which is two different things, He also isn't a=talking to the daily mail; he is talking to the german newspaper about bayern.
LVG made horrible signings as he has a history of doing at all his clubs; but when he is talking about United being a commercial club- i think he is directly talking directly about Falcao and later Di maria signings. Compared to the rest; those 2 were the ones that stood out more as woodward signings than LVG's imo.
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You really believe that ? He's just talking because he's so bitter about the way he was sacked. He thought he got humiliated by us and thus came with a bunch of nonsense about how our club is run to make everyone believe we're the guilty ones not him. Ok then, The commercial club gave him far more time and trusted him to turn the tides that we ended up sacrificing the rest of the season for his sake while "the football club" sacked him midway to save their season and didn't give a feck about him.
Also commercial or not, any manager would have been pleased if they're handed a player like Di Maria by the club, who had just been a key role in Madrid wining CL, how it's the opposite for LVG ?
They changed their logo to be more marketable.
FC Adidas aren't commercial?
OK Louis, if you say so
OK Louis, if you say so
He is obviously right that we are a money club. But to claim that Bayern is much different is complete bollocks. Three of the biggest companies in Germany(Adidas, Audi and Allianz) have directly invested money in the club. Just last week they signed a major sponsorship deal with Qatar Airways even though there was already a big discussion going on about them going there for some warm weather training every year.
On top of that their President got done for tax evasion and their CEO was caught at customs control with a gifted Rolex worth 100K euro. Coincidentally he was arriving from Qatar.
Tradition
On top of that their President got done for tax evasion and their CEO was caught at customs control with a gifted Rolex worth 100K euro. Coincidentally he was arriving from Qatar.
Tradition
What is a "commercial club"? In what way is Bayern less "commercial" than United? United has sold more shares and plays in a league with more financial strength, thats all.....
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it (no sarcasm too)
I do remember that argument and I still stick to what I said. The manager's job 'ala Ferguson' (that's what Italians call it) is, in my opinion, far too big for one man to manage. There's the economic aspect (ie communicating his vision to the money men), the transfer market aspect, tactics, the youth academy, the day to day management, scouting, the staff (coaching and players) etc. SAF did it, but SAF was a genius who grew at the same pace of the club and who genuinely loved the club. We can accuse SAF of many things but he certainly cared about United. Which is a rare thing to find in a football were the salary/perks are so high that managers would probably throw anyone under the bus for an extra 6 month contract.
Having said that, I find LVG's criticism a bit unfair. In my books being commercial means putting the club's success at second place in favour of money. It may also mean adding players the manager wouldn't necessarily want simply because they bring new sponsors to the club. Woody is not a football person but I don't think he does that and if he did, then he wouldn't hire Mourinho from all people. We mustn't forget that when SAF wanted Moyes to succeed him he got his wish. When Mou wanted Fellaini signed despite we skipped the deadline to active his minimum fee clause we was granted his wish. When LVG filled us with Barcelona/Bayern's rejects he also got his wish and when Mourinho wanted a less flashy pre season tour he also got his wish. None of those made football sense.
I think our problem is the complete opposite to what LVG said. In my opinion, SAF had shielded so much that our board is too naive to stand up to people who might not love the club/be as good as SAF was. I mean lets be honest. If SAF joined Bayern the year he left us, do you think that the German club would allow him to bring Scholes and Giggs on the ridiculously high salary/long contract Bastian was signed for us? The answer is no. Why? Because they have a DOF who understand football and won't let this stupid acts to happen.
It must be hard for LVG to end his career in such a bad way. I won't be surprise if LVG is sulking up Bayern in a pathetic attempt to replace Heynckes at the end of next season. You know, easy job in a league which is pretty much a 1 horse raise.
Considering he always kept Falcao on the bench and the narrow formation he was playing for the majority of the first season didn’t suit a winger like Di Maria, you’re probably right.
You could argue none of his signings have been proper successes.
If you think that LVG makes this comment out of «bitterness» alone, then bless you.
Doesn't mean Bayern is some sort of altruistic experiment far removed from the taint of Mammon. But the difference he highlights is something that shouldn't be dismissed easily by United fans.
Bayern is a historically great football club run by football people (not saints or charity workers, they make a pretty penny from it all and some of 'em are feckin' crooks, but they're football people) - whereas United is run by people who don't know anything about football.
Is the above claim horribly wrong? Don't think so.
Doesn't mean Bayern is some sort of altruistic experiment far removed from the taint of Mammon. But the difference he highlights is something that shouldn't be dismissed easily by United fans.
Bayern is a historically great football club run by football people (not saints or charity workers, they make a pretty penny from it all and some of 'em are feckin' crooks, but they're football people) - whereas United is run by people who don't know anything about football.
Is the above claim horribly wrong? Don't think so.