his form is poor but he's still taking any chances that fall his way.
Lionel Messi
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his form is poor but he's still taking any chances that fall his way.
Not far away from ending the season with NOTHING... 
Come on Seville at the weekend.
Come on Seville at the weekend.
His form has been quite poor of late, and yes he is arguably one of the best finishers around - 45 goals prove that. To finish a chance I can't think of anyone else I'd stake my life on - if it ever came to that.
In terms of clinicality? He's probably not even the best finisher in the Barca side.
Who's better? Messi's composure makes him lethal infront of goal, more so than any other player I can think of in that team.
In terms of when hes in on goal there is nobody better.
The reason is his coolness in front of goal. He almost always goes for the chip 1 on 1 because he is so confident in it. Look at his two finishes, neither are spectacular and both with his right foot and both are dinked.
Not really sure why anyone would argue with it. He is the best finisher around.
44 goals... that's even more than Ronaldos outrageos 42 goals. And Messi has done it at a younger age. I never thought he'd get that amount of goals in a season, i never saw goals as his main strength.
Just goes to show you really cant judge a player entirely when they are that young. People Chief and co said Messi could never improve yet he's bettering himself in terms of productivity every season...
and yes cal he may end up with nothing but he'll still pick up a fair few individual awards. One in particular your main man cares all too much about. It's golden and a ball.
Not far away from ending the season with NOTHING...
Come on Seville at the weekend.
Tough game for Ronaldos los blancos tonight. Could end your dream of seeing Messi win nothing.
What an interesting dream.
He is an excellent finisher. But the best around? Come on. The 2 Spanish strikers are better.
That said, his finishing is really good.
In terms of one on ones i dont think anyone is better than Messi. No player has got near his goals total in the last couple of seasons. If that isn't an indication of being the best finisher around i don't know what is.
When it comes to 1 on 1s, like I mentioned, he just isn't better than Villa and Torres. Number of goals is a good indication if you're supposed competitors are playing for teams at the same level.
But like I said he is right up there.
So you assume Villa and Torres would score simelar number or more goals if they played for Barcelona.
That's an assumption and no more. Unless they actually did it or managed to score a shit loads for current clubs then i can see a use in arguing about it.
Yes I do feel so. I don't know why you take not calling Messi the best at it as a slight on him? I said he is very good. Why can't you accept the fact that there could be others better than him at some aspects. You've shown an irrational bias all through this thread.
And if you conduct a poll among knowledgeable footie fans, you'll get either Villa or Torres in the best finishers category. Of course all of this is speculation and opinion. But then again, what isn't.
really? whom?
Of course, but you are making presumptions about it. I'm not, that's the only difference in our opinions.
I dont doubt they would score a lot of goals for Barcelona but do i think more than Messi? Probably not, not even Eto'o scored more in the season before last and that was his best seasons goal return in his career.
Are David Villa and Fernando Torres that much better than a prime Eto'o? I don't think so.
Yes. But getting alot of goals isn't only about clinicalness(?)
Let me put it this way. If you were the coach of a team and you had to select 1 player to be put in a 1on 1 situation, who'd you pick. I know you'd pick Messi. I would pick Villa and 2nd Torres. Thats all. Messi is a much better all round attacking player than them.
Torres is not a better finisher than Messi. It is a different debate as to who is more capable of accurately/powerfully striking a football, but Messi's composure and close control, for me, makes him the best around when it comes to finishing off a chance. In situations whereby other top class attacking players would miscontrol the ball even slightly to make the chance harder, or perhaps just panic slightly under the pressure of being in and amongst many defenders, Messi excels.
Bullshit. He isnt even the most deadly finisher in his team. Pedro is. Best goals to shots ratio around in world football ATM. IIRC the stats.
Don't try to mix me up with your fanboi types dude. I don't spend time on here dissing Messi like some do. Neither do I spend time on here over praising him like you do. I'm far more objective about him than you will ever be.
well i've been right about Messi whilst you've been wrong in so many different accounts. You didnt think he'd win the ballon do'r, you didn't think he'd ever be as good as Ronaldo, you didn't think he could improve as a player etc etc
You can call that "objective" but whilst i've largely been proved right in my opinions of Messi i still get the "non objective fan boii opinion" stuff thrown my way.
Yes i'm aware of the stats, Gio was kind enough to point them out a while back but converstion rates dont tell you the whole story as anyone should know.
If i'm a central defender and i come up for corners and score 5 headers out of 5 a season then i'm 100% accurate and the most clinical player statistically in my team. But realistically it's not the same.
Pedro hits the target more than most and doesnt try to many speculative efforts. Messi will find himself in positions more and have the ability to maneouver himself in order to get a shot off.
His goal tally and range of finishes are what sets him apart in terms of goal scoring. Yet it is in one on one situations that i fail to see just exactly who is a cooler or calmer or more clinical finisher than Messi. 44 goals is remarkable for someone who isnt an out and out striker. But what it does prove is that he is an out and out finisher.
In terms of one on one situations if there was a stat for it Messi would be the best around i'd imagine. I mean look at the angle on the first finish from the weekend yet he still pops it with back spin just over the keeper and just inside the post. Top class finish.
You can call that "objective" but whilst i've largely been proved right in my opinions of Messi i still get the "non objective fan boii opinion" stuff thrown my way.
Yes i'm aware of the stats, Gio was kind enough to point them out a while back but converstion rates dont tell you the whole story as anyone should know.
If i'm a central defender and i come up for corners and score 5 headers out of 5 a season then i'm 100% accurate and the most clinical player statistically in my team. But realistically it's not the same.
Pedro hits the target more than most and doesnt try to many speculative efforts. Messi will find himself in positions more and have the ability to maneouver himself in order to get a shot off.
His goal tally and range of finishes are what sets him apart in terms of goal scoring. Yet it is in one on one situations that i fail to see just exactly who is a cooler or calmer or more clinical finisher than Messi. 44 goals is remarkable for someone who isnt an out and out striker. But what it does prove is that he is an out and out finisher.
In terms of one on one situations if there was a stat for it Messi would be the best around i'd imagine. I mean look at the angle on the first finish from the weekend yet he still pops it with back spin just over the keeper and just inside the post. Top class finish.
Come on. In England for example, Henry regularly outscored Ruud by some distance. Yet I doubt anyone would tell you Henry was the superior finsher. Scoring the most doesn't always equate to being the best finisher around.
I think messi is probably a better finisher than Torres. He just always seems to put them away.
Think it has more to do with his uncanny composure and balance than it does his ability to strike the ball though. There are better shooters, but none who can match his composure.
Think it has more to do with his uncanny composure and balance than it does his ability to strike the ball though. There are better shooters, but none who can match his composure.
That was down to Henrys ability to score a vast range of goals whilst Ruud is and was the ultimate box striker.
Messi possesses a bit of the Henry in that he has the eye for the spectacular but also as a box striker, in a one on one situation he's the best around. Completely unflinching and surreally clinical.
Messi possesses a bit of the Henry in that he has the eye for the spectacular but also as a box striker, in a one on one situation he's the best around. Completely unflinching and surreally clinical.
why not? Henry could pull off far more difficult finishes than Nistelroy. I reckon he was probably a better finisher, as he generally took his goals from more difficult positions than Nistelroy and obviously scored more.
What Nistelroy had on Henry was much superior positioning. He could sniff out a chance anywhere.
Exactly. To put it simply, finishing does not simply entail shooting. We've already been over his composure, but it's his first touch that does it as well. It's difficult to describe, but a good way of saying it is that Messi, despite having already being played through, creates one on ones with his first touch. Van Nistelrooy was brilliant at this, as opposed to others who would perhaps stumble slightly over the first touch (despite the excellent pass), and then check back looking to set up another player.
A good example of this is Nani's touch after Macheda's through ball against Tottenahm the other day which enabled the lob over the keeper (something which Messi is also fantastic at).
That's a total lie.
Wrong again. I didn't think he'd surpass Ronaldo. There's a difference.
Another lie. What I said was Messi didn't have much room for improvement. Not that he could never improve. I haven't been proven wrong in any shape of form.
He has always been cool headed in front of goal. (eg his debut goal for Barca was a chip). He has always been a top play maker and has never had poor decision making. The only thing he improved was his heading and physical strength, that stopped him being injury prone. You on the other had claimed he would massively improve in all areas of his football ability. Which he hasn't even come close to doing. Quit making things up.
You haven't been proved right in most of your over the top opinions on him. The only thing you've been proved right about was he becoming world player of the year, whilst proving he was better than Ronaldo. Don't flatter yourself and claim victory where you haven't got it.
Just like scoring the most doesn't tell the whole story about finishing ability. Which everyone knows. Messi is a great finisher. But best around bar none? No. The best finishers are told apart by their goals to shots/goal to games ratios. Especially the first part.
Ok, do your homework chief. Go through the worlds top players and find their goal to shot ratio.
I would be very surprised to find that his goals to shots ratio isn't the best around.
And i'm not claiming victory, it's not a war. I'm claiming to have been proven correct on many occasions regarding Messi and if anyone would care to read through 2 years and 162 pages of this thread they might find that too.
I would be very surprised to find that his goals to shots ratio isn't the best around.
And i'm not claiming victory, it's not a war. I'm claiming to have been proven correct on many occasions regarding Messi and if anyone would care to read through 2 years and 162 pages of this thread they might find that too.
Henry scored better goals but Ruud was by far the more clinical and better finisher.
And I agree with FV, Messi's finishing this season atleast has been the best by far. When he's one on one you almost always know he will finish.
Who's better...O'Shea or Messi
Who were Barca playing in the SPLiga last night then?
Didn't know there were any games on.
Didn't know there were any games on.
Ronaldo did it not too long ago in arguably a much tougher defensive league.
I have nothing to prove. I'm not the one claiming he is the best finisher bar none in the game. Besides you were not even willing to accept that Pedro has the best goals to shots ratio at Barca. So why will any set of stats change your mind? After all last season he was even more deadly than he has been this year in terms of goals to shots ratio. This season in the La Liga he has 31 goals from 81 shots on target. While last year he got 23 from just 50!
Like there's difference. You've made a host of false claims in your last post accusing me of things I never did. It's your pattern whenever someone doesn't agree with you, when you unleash over the top praise of Messi. It's behaviour like that that breeds Cals on this forum.
Why is it when he got to crunch situations like the final vs Barcelona he used to come up shot? Henry was the type of forward who would score 2 almost every game and miss many more. All because he had superior work rate and speed to everyone else around. Rather than being the best finisher. A finisher is best because he is the most clinical. Not because he rakes up the highest goals scored, or has the most variety.
I'm far from convinced he beats fellows like Villa, Van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar or even Inzaghi in terms of ice in veins. What he best them all in is goals scored. For obvious reasons.
Please don't go there.
who said i wasnt? it certainly wasnt me. I pointed out that it had already been proven by Gio in another thread, possibly the Pedro one come to think of it. How that equates to claiming other wise i'm unsure
I am not saying you were over the top, but you were no better than I in our arguments. You claim i am over the top and make false claims yet if anyone cared to read previous posts for time past in this very forum they would see i am not far wrong, or was not far wrong whilst you and many others remained very sceptical until it was proven beyond reasonable doubt.
in terms of one on one situations i think he does.
Inzaghi could miss from 5 yards but it is and always was his uncanny ability to be in the right place at the right time that made him the poacher he is. His actual finishing i have never put on a par with the very best. Not a chance in my opinion.
No way.
So has every other attacking player on the planet. 9/10 times he wouldn't.
His finishing has always been up there with the best. that's who he survives with his limited abilities.
But it's pretty useless to debate on who has more ice in their veins. There is no fool proof method to measure that in existence tbh. We can however attempt to mesure who is more clinical.
Who posted this about Messi then?who said i wasnt? it certainly wasnt me. I pointed out that it had already been proven by Gio in another thread, possibly the Pedro one come to think of it. How that equates to claiming other wise i'm unsure
Even in La Liga he doesn't have the best goals to shots ratio this season. Despite the stupendous finishing he has shown all year.
One day he will probably be the best finisher bar none in the game still playing. But that is still a bit beyond him now.
The only thing I was skeptical about and proven wrong about was Messi winning world player of the year, whilst surpassing Ronaldo. Messi went and did the very things I laid out as conditions to surpass Ronaldo. Beyond that, there's almost nothing I've been proven wrong about when it comes to him.
I sometimes get the impression you think I'm not a Messi fan. If that's the case, you are very mistaken.
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