Lionel Messi

[amolbhatia50k]

Ay, because Zidane never had poor games

Even in a quieter Messi performance he laid a sitter on a plate to Bojan

Sometimes even the best need others to step up on a given day

zidane consistently looked a level a I've evehone else and his usual self in the bigger games. Barring the odd woeful defense (like arsenal for both) both messi and ronaldo become worse in the bigger games.

Noone from the current generation has that trait just yet. When they do consistsently they can be compared to the greats.

 

[B Cantona]

I've seen Zidane step up on the biggest stage. Messi hasn't. Unless you count a quarters against a reserve Arsenal side that is.

For a start, he's fecking 22

And further to that,

The lads scored hat tricks in El Classico and struck in the final of the champions league, amongst the rest of the brilliance that has defined his career to date

One quieter performance tonight and we pretend past players were infallible, and Messi doesn't have what it takes

Crazy. You're as bad as the Rubberman Spoons

 

[kouroux]

The guys he had in front of him (Samuel, Cambiasso,Motta,Zanetti) knew all about him.

 

[Ronaldo No.9]

I was joking about Maradona but I maintain at 22 he could be better when it's all said and done, and I was dead serious about comparing him to Zidane and Chubster Ronnie.

Ronaldo was dominating the best defences at 21, Messi hasn't dominated any good defence at 22.

A recent quote from the great Paulo Maldini...

Ronaldo was the attacker more difficult to tackle: "He was simply unstoppable

 

[Raees]

Tight games where its defence vs attack, Ronaldo & Messi both inept and need to mature further

Fixed.

 

[Spoony]

zidane consistently looked a level a I've evehone else and his usual self in the bigger games. Barring the odd woeful defense (like arsenal for both) both messi and ronaldo become worse in the bigger games.

Noone from the current generation has that trait just yet. When they do consistsently they can be compared to the greats.

That's because they can be marked out of the game. The likes of Zidane could dictate a game with their passing.

 

[::sonny::]

Fl0p

This

****

 

[Boss]

It's like some of the players described in this thread were IMPOSSIBLE to stop,Inter produced one of the best defensive performances you can get in the CL, and they stopped Messi playing over both legs, but it could happen to other players too. I remember Zidane having a quieter game for Juve against Madrid when they won the CL, it happens.

 

[Spoony]

For a start, he's fecking 22

And further to that,

The lads scored hat tricks in El Classico and struck in the final of the champions league, amongst the rest of the brilliance that has defined his career to date

One quieter performance tonight and we pretend past players were infallible, and Messi doesn't have what it takes

Crazy. You're as bad as the Rubberman Spoons

He needs to step up for his country and Barcelona on the biggest stage. At the moment he's not the all round game or personality to do that.

 

[Raees]

Go spoony go spoony.

 

[Gio]

Looked more like someone still learning his trade and how to unlock stubborn, negative gameplans from good defenders and defenses.

There's certainly a pattern emerging. He'll face a lot more of this at the World Cup.

In a nutshell.

There's no need for extreme knee-jerk reactions. The margins are very fine at this level. If not for an astonishing save from Julio Cesar and an equally shocking miss from Bojan, we would have been lauding him for his brilliance and creativity.

He's still a sensational player, the best in the world, but picking off the greatest defences requires savvy which took the likes of Zidane, Rivaldo and Baggio many years to acquire.

 

[B Cantona]

It's like some of the players described in this thread were IMPOSSIBLE to stop,Inter produced one of the best defensive performances you can get in the CL, and they stopped Messi playing over both legs, but it could happen to other players too. I remember Zidane having a quiter game for Juve against Madrid when they won the CL, it happens.

Shh Boss, that's far too much sense

Zidane was a brilliant player, but the idea he conquered every game he played is just ridiculous. Anyone reading the crap Spoony is spouting there must be wondering what he's on

 

[B Cantona]

There's no need for extreme knee-jerk reactions. The margins are very fine at this level. If not for an astonishing save from Julio Cesar and an equally shocking miss from Bojan, we would have been lauding him for his brilliance and creativity

Fine margins

And that really was an incredible save. There aren't many keepers in the world that could stop that

 

[Boss]

Shh Boss, that's far too much sense

Zidane was a brilliant player, but the idea he conquered every game he played is just ridiculous. Anyone reading the crap Spoony is spouting there must be wondering what he's on

Zizou isone of my fave players, but to rewrite history to disparage Messi is crazy. What happened to Messi tonight could have easily happened to Zidane, it's happened before to many greats.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That's because they can be marked out of the game. The likes of Zidane could dictate a game with their passing.

t






Yup, this is a point I made in a thread I started a week back or so. I think players like zidane who can run gMes rather than be merely final third players will always get my vote in these debates.

And brad, there a difference between dominating a big game and scoring in it. Ronaldo scored against Chelsea, messi and etto against us in, all in cl finals. But they didn't dominate those games. They simply scored in gAmes their teams dominated.

The reason barca won that final really was inista runnings rings around us. That's what zidane did regularly.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Tonight's game showed why he is not near Maradona. With his supply cut he starved to death.
Maradona in comparison was the supply and executor rolled into one. It's high time folks respected him more.

Maradona was god in my book.

I can't believe people were even talking about Messi in the same breath on the back of his Arsenal performance.

Messi may yet get there, but he's nowhere near his countryman.

 

[mariachi-19]

If Rooney had been given the same role Messi had been given in todays game.. Barca would've won.

I've said it time and time again.. Messi and Skinny Ronaldo have a long way to go yet.

Ronnie would have done more about todays game then Messi. The lack of height and Zlatan's shitness made Baca lose out today. The only time they perked up was when Pique started driving forward.

 

[Ekeke]

Its very hard to play through a well organised, completely defensive side with a pretty good quality of player throughout it. Especially when that team defence is drilled by Mourinho. And on the occasion it did come unstuck for a second they had the best goalkeeper in the world to bail them out.

Messi became the provider today because nobody could find him in the dangerous situations in and right outside the box. And he was the only one on the pitch who really created anything. Inter definitely played him well over the two legs, but it mainly shows the reliance Barcelona have on Messi to do everything and win just about every game. You stop him from scoring and its only now and then that Zlatan or Pedro might pop up and get the goal. There are times when even the best player in the world needs more from his team mates.

 

[Spoony]

Shh Boss, that's far too much sense

Zidane was a brilliant player, but the idea he conquered every game he played is just ridiculous. Anyone reading the crap Spoony is spouting there must be wondering what he's on

That's a poor effort. Again it's not about having poor games, it's about not stepping up on the biggest stage. Look at Zidane's career he did it plenty of times. . .in fact we saw the best of him when the spot light was on. Sure a lot of it is about experience but also the ability to change games when up against a brick wall. But this was about Boss' preposterous claim that Messi's better than Ronaldo and Zidane.

 

[Boss]

Ronnie would have done more about todays game then Messi. The lack of height and Zlatan's shitness made Baca lose out today. The only time they perked up was when Pique started driving forward.

Sometimes I prefer Ronnie to Messi in certain games because Ronaldo is more direct, you can't stop him from shooting from God knows yards, even if there are constant men around him. Eve if he's being dealt with, he would keep cming back for more untill 90 mins are over, untill the defence is ragged.

Messi plays a far more subtle game, and waits for the perfect opening to make his move. Tonight Barca needed a bit more directness at times, it's where Eto'o would have done his thing.

 

[Raees]

Ronnie would have done more about todays game then Messi. The lack of height and Zlatan's shitness made Baca lose out today. The only time they perked up was when Pique started driving forward.

Maybe.. my gut instinct tells me you're right.. but I've seen Ronnie have way too many awful games in situations that Messi faced today to really back your statement.

Both lack the guile in their play and physical strength to dominate games of the highest calibre.. they'll score goals yes.. but they struggle to stamp their name on a game.

Will it come? yes it should do.. both are very young, but have they done enough to be labelled as all time greats or even merit comparison? No in my opinion. Lets wait and see how things pan out.

 

[Ekeke]

Today Ronaldo would definitiely have been a better option to be fair. Barcelona had all the ball outside the box, but not enough threat inside it, not enough players forward, not enough Barcelona players making good incisive throughballs and perhaps thats quite a lot to do with setting up camp just outside Inter's box all game long... Maybe the game taking place in a small amount of space like that meant that Barcelona's movement wasnt what it should have been.

Ronaldo is the exact kind of player you'd want in the middle or getting into the middle in a game like today's.

 

[Boss]

Today Ronaldo would definitiely have been a better option to be fair. Barcelona had all the ball outside the box, but not enough threat inside it, not enough players forward, not enough Barcelona players making good incisive throughballs and perhaps thats quite a lot to do with setting up camp just outside Inter's box all game long... Maybe the game taking place in a small amount of space like that meant that Barcelona's movement wasnt what it should have been.

Ronaldo is the exact kind of player you'd want in the middle or getting into the middle in a game like today's.

The problem with Zlatan is that he doesn't look as direct as he did in Serie A, he wants to stay deep and do his fancy flick when Barca just don't need it. He does help control possession at times but sometimes they need a different option. They need someone like Eto'o who has one thing in his mind, and that the quickest route to that goal, a very direct player. To this day Eto'o doesn't know why he was sold and it wasn't footballing reasons.

I bet you Pep was thinking long and hard whether to start Ibra tonight over Bojan.

 

[Myxomatosis]

Neither Ronaldo or Messi can realiably break down a world class defence if they park the bus. It's a very hard skill.

 

[Marcosdeto]

every player has an off game

maradona had an off world cup in 1982, and he was messis age at that time

zidane had an off world cup in 2002, feck, he even had an off game in the final game against italy when he stupidly got himself red carded for headbutting an italian player

i remember maradona going AWOL for argentina against uruguay in the copa america semis

i was on the field that afternoon and he dissappeared ´-he was perfectly controled by the uruguayans defenders-

to say messi is not an excellent player because of what happened today is being unfair

 

[Richter]

every player has an off game

maradona had an off world cup in 1982, and he was messis age at that time

zidane had an off world cup in 2002, feck, he even had an off game in the final game against italy when he stupidly got himself red carded for headbutting an italian player

i remember maradona going AWOL for argentina against uruguay in the copa america semis

i was on the field that afternoon and he dissappeared ´-he was perfectly controled by the uruguayans defenders-

to say messi is not an excellent player because of what happened today is being unfair

Nobody is claiming that he isn't top class but the hype around him has gone too far. He is a young player putting his mark on the game, let him be that don't compare him with Maradona and the likes yet.

 

[Marcosdeto]

Nobody is claiming that he isn't top class but the hype around him has gone too far. He is a young player putting his mark on the game, let him be that don't compare him with Maradona and the likes yet.

when i see messi playing, i think that at the end of his career he might be compared with pele and maradona

 

[jojojo]

Good defences get organised to deal with the known threats - and that's exactly what players like Messi and CRonaldo are. That's when the other players have to step up - even Zidane owes part of his allure to those big big goals he scored, when the defenders were marking someone else.

As for Messi tonight, I thought he was OK, not great but not awful and not "missing in action" which was how I felt after the first leg. Messi came close to making the breakthrough pass a few times and nearly scored himself - on another night they'd be dusting off their Messiah headlines.

 

[Boss]

every player has an off game

maradona had an off world cup in 1982, and he was messis age at that time

zidane had an off world cup in 2002, feck, he even had an off game in the final game against italy when he stupidly got himself red carded for headbutting an italian player

i remember maradona going AWOL for argentina against uruguay in the copa america semis

i was on the field that afternoon and he dissappeared ´-he was perfectly controled by the uruguayans defenders-

to say messi is not an excellent player because of what happened today is being unfair

Well said my good man.

It can happen to anybody when a team sets out to stop you playing, even some of the greats mentioned in this thread. Football these days is so damn scrutinised at times.

 

[Feed Me]

You know tonight, Messi:

- brought that astonishing save from Cesar;
- played that delicious ball to Bojan, who missed a sitter.

He clearly wasn't crap. He can't score a hat-trick every time he plays.

 

[Plan M]

I don't get the whole "fanboi" thing so please don't have a go at me but those of you that are saying "Messi is overrated" or "He hasn't done it on the big stage" are talking absolute bitter bollocks.

 

[Raees]

The problem is people saying he is as good as some of the greats mentioned 'already'... no ones saying he is shit, just pleading for patience and let him earn his right to be mentioned as an All time great.

Alot of people seem in a rush to put Messi on top of the likes of Pele, Zidane etc... its ridiculous.

 

[Plan M]

The problem is people saying he is as good as some of the greats mentioned 'already'... no ones saying he is shit, just pleading for patience and let him earn his right to be mentioned as an All time great.

Alot of people seem in a rush to put Messi on top of the likes of Pele, Zidane etc... its ridiculous.

I do agree with this.

 

[gulli_G]

spanish defences are shite,

 

[esmufc07]

I've yet to see Messi really do it against a quality defence. People point to the CL Final but Ferdinand switched off for that second goal. Allow Xavi and Messi to run free and you will always be punished.

As Spoony said, it's all well and good doing it against Arsenal reserves and against Campbell and Silvestre, but when Barcelona needed him tonight he did sod all.

 

[B Cantona]

I've yet to see Messi really do it against a quality defence

Perhaps if mummy let you stay up a bit later you wouldn't miss out on them

 

[esmufc07]

Perhaps if mummy let you stay up a bit later you wouldn't miss out on them

Care to name me some of these quality defences he's done well against?

Please please please don't say Real Madrid either.

 

[Boss]

Care to name me some of these quality defences he's done well against?

Please please please don't say Real Madrid either.

?

Performance outshone Ronaldinho himself on the day

 

[Enigma_87]

Noone from the current generation has that trait just yet. When they do consistsently they can be compared to the greats.

Well there was one - however his prime only lasted for 2 years or so.

 

[Cal?]

Care to name me some of these quality defences he's done well against?

Please please please don't say Real Madrid either.

They will go back to that goal against United when we were chasing the game in Rome.

Arsenal reserves do not count.