Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Messi saying exactly what everyone thinks.
Dude in those day's people got away with murder. The used to autograph people's legs with their boots!
Does that mean defenders were actually better though? It just shows they were pretty brainless at the sport, I'm pretty sure it's at a whole new level these days
I think you need to be physically stronger, faster and have more stamina in the modern game as defenders are stronger and will try harder to muscle you off the ball, come at you faster and with more men if you're a major player and require you to run more to find space to play in.
Conversely, in the old days you probably needed better balance to ride off ridiculous tackles and a greater tolerance for pain to endure them when they connected.
Conversely, in the old days you probably needed better balance to ride off ridiculous tackles and a greater tolerance for pain to endure them when they connected.
Spot on
Some delightful stuff from Messi on wednesday night. He's quite good.
Some stunning football in that clip.. that run at 6 mins, was watching it live.. thought it was going to be another Maradona remix
How do you stop someone who can shield the ball whilst attacking space/moving forward like he does, I honestly think tactics can go out the window when playing him, the defenders can't stop him at 6 min no matter what. He keeps the ball out of their reach.
Very selfish at 3.20
True, perfect chance to play Bojan through, but when you're on 40 goals it does tend to play on your mind!
Unleash Paul Scholes.. Gingerninja
To me he's the modern Georgie Best ... short, slight, long shaggy hair, shirt outside his shorts, untidy, nothing very compelling ... until you put the ball at his feet.
I'm wondering why Barca would want Fabregas when they have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta who can all do what Cesc does. Of all the teams on the planet, they are the one that doesn't need him.
I'm wondering why Barca would want Fabregas when they have Messi, Xavi and Iniesta who can all do what Cesc does. Of all the teams on the planet, they are the one that doesn't need him.
It's because he's a superstar and you can tell the fans have been wanting him for a long time now, plus I rate Fabregas higher than Iniesta but only just.
Just go through a list of the world's greatest defenders. You will find the vast majority came form that era.
Rather ti shows that they face people who could only be stopped by roughness. Yet even that wasn't enough. I assure you, if Diego was playing now, he'd make a mockery of all of Messi's recent feats, with the protection players get today.
Only in fitness. The standards of play aren't higher. People forget that in them days they had worse boots and heavier balls. Yet still displayed sublime skill on the regular.
That's a very large claim chief!
Very selfish at 3.20
tbf, there are some great passes in there to set up team mates.
Think I counted all of once where he lost the ball by trying to dribble when he shouldn't. Amessing performance.
haha the double one-two with Alves after the throw-in was amazing.The way they understood each other
These claims are based on what? Football is not an easy game to be objective and clear about it... But using my reasoning I can be quite sure that this is not true.
Every sport evolves. In sports that performance can actually be measured, like athletics, you can see that most records are broken after standing out for some years, albeit very rare exceptions. Why? Training routines evolve, you learn on all the knowledge of the ones before you, and above all, there's more people training for more hours... You can't make these objective measurements in football, but why should it be different?
With the amount of people playing football nowadays and it's intensity, impact, money and time involved... I think it's pure speculation to argue that it was harder to pass by defenders on the eighties than what it is now. In what is a list of the world's greatest defenders be based? The impact they had on the game, or the romanticized memories that people think of them. Beckenbauer will be reminded a lot more than Vidic but I'm not sure if it's that easier to pass by the later with a ball.
Maradona make a mockery of Messi? Ridiculous statement. Could or not be better, football has changed significantly over these years. I personally still rate Maradona higher for his whole achievements, but this is over-hype. No one can mock what Messi is capable of doing nowadays.
Why is that funny,? lads describe the defending back in those days as WWF, surely that shows how much they have improved drastically over the years
we need to send some of our youth coaches to la maisa to see what their secrets are.
ffs even their b team/reserves have a mini nou camp - mini estadi across from the nou camp. our lads play where? moss lane?
right now, barca are just at the most f.a.p-tastic level ever.
ffs even their b team/reserves have a mini nou camp - mini estadi across from the nou camp. our lads play where? moss lane?
right now, barca are just at the most f.a.p-tastic level ever.
I've advocated this, We need to tap their training grounds, or invest in plan....
Agent Pique
Interesting post with some interesting points.
I put a lot of it down to nostalgia. Everything was better in "the good old days" but football has no doubt evolved and it always will and that is why cross generation comparisons are always difficult and always bring out over the top opinions.
I have nothing but admiration for the greats of the game and have no doubt about the quality they possessed in their respective eras but football has advanced. Top level players are now athletes not just footballers. The game is played so much faster, players cover a lot more ground and training has obviously improved and evolved as has tactics.
It's impossible for me to say the standard of football is better now. If anything it makes sense for it to be better in the older days when the game was played at a slower pace. A time where strength and pace were not as important as they are today. But regardless of that the game cannot be described as easier now. It's certainly a harder game.
Just looking at the last video Messi is kicked an awful lot. That's in spain which is regarded by most as a lot softer than the prem. He also rides some awful challenges. The run at 3.20 pointed out by fergiesgold has a good example of that (yes he should have passed anyway).
Anyway i don't know how chief can say Maradona would make a mockery of Messis feats when Messi has achieved more at this stage in his career than Maradona had. It is impossible and pure speculation to imagine what a player from the 1980s could do in 2010.
I could say if Cristiano Ronaldo played in the 1970s/80s he'd make a mockery of everyone because they have never seen a player so strong and fast.
In short football has evolved and with it players have evolved. Maradona was better than everyone at his time. Messi is better than everyone at his time. Maradona is a legend, Messi is becoming one. To say either make a mockery of the other is over the top.
A rule of thumb for nostalgic analysis seems to be to assume that of course the old players would adapt to modern conditions without breaking a sweat, but modern players are such pansies they would definitely struggle with the way things were in the old days.
It's probably partly due to the impact Beckenbauer also made at international level, winning the World Cup both as a player and a selector, at a time when international football was more televized than club football
On the other hand this summer will be Vidic's first World Cup, and though there are doubts as to whether he'll match Beckenbauer's feats, it might be for him an occasion to demonstrate his tremendous abilities to the world much like Cannavaro did in 2006, and deservedly get a spot as one of the greatest defenders of our time
The ball looks hugeBased on the fact that defenders used to get away with murder back in the day. Also due to the fact that the Serie A was the toughest and most tactically aware league on the planet. Yet Maradona used to lay to waste most teams and defenders on a weekly basis. Surrounded by a team that was no where near as equipped as giants like Inter, Juventus or Milan with personnel. Or Messi's recent Barcelona sides.
All this he did whilst equipped with worse boots, less scientific training methods, less scientific dieting techniques, rules that didn't protect talent as much as they do now and ball that were harder to sue than those of today.
Trust me it has zero to do with nostalgia.
I disagree. It's very easy to be objective about football.
Football IS different because football's evolution has been based around making it easier for talented players to do their job. The training and physical conditioning is better, the health care is better, so is the equipment.
Above all the rules have become more and more in favour of talented ball players.
It's a totally myth that intensity of games has increased, and things like more money are major factors in elevating it to another plane. I have little doubt it was harder for the Cruyff's to play good football than it is for players of this generation.
It's about the impact they had on the game. Plus the caliber of player they were able to stop. As I said, go around to any football experts you can find. Ask them to list the best defenders they've ever watched since 1980. It won't be a coincidence that very few if any will come from the current era.
It has nothing to do with mocking. It has however everything to do with knowing what the likes of Maradona faced to excel in the game with their talent. Maradona played in the toughest league of his era, the most tactically aware in a team not even half as good as Messi's yet he won the league there and a European tournament or two. He also excelled at International level at a time when most national teams were really strong.
People of this era are the ones regularly doing the mocking. Claiming Messi has '' has achieved more at this stage in his career than Maradona had'.
So fecking what. At this stage of his career Maradona wasn't at a Barcelona that was the best club side in the world bar none was he?
It even gets more annoying when they claim the likes of Pele and Maradona had it easier at footballers. That's a sure sign of a person who doesn't really know is history of football well. The evolution of football as a sport hasn't made things harder at all.
Football has not become harder at all. If anything it has become based around speed, better fitness, protecting talented players and benefiting attack minded teams.
I wish you had witnessed first hand most of the tackles the fellows like Maradona used to ride in the 80's and early 90's. Stuff like what eventually ended Van Basten's career were the norm when trying to stop player of that ilk.
It isn't pure speculation at all. The game is much easier for players with outrageous on the ball skills.
So now your latest gist is the 80's never had players with power and pace ehIt isn't over the top to laugh at Messi' current comparison with Maradona. Especially when people are trying their best to down play what people of Maradona's era achieved. All in the name of the stupid mantra ''football has evolved".
Nah I save him for that cnut Busquets
When is he not in agony
was scholes captain in that game
If they were so brainless how come men like Maldini played well into their late 30's with the improved health care of this era? Yet he was of the younger crop of defenders from that era?
Defenders from the Serie A in the 1980's for example were very tactically aware. On top of being armed with the lee way to autograph players legs with their boots if necessary and get away with it.
What this era trumps them on is speed and physicality. Back in the day they had to face more wily opponents. Opponents who never had the athletic advantages players of today have.
I have no doubts if Maradona had the physical conditioning a Messi has now, plus the law protection. He'd have even been more deadly and prolific than than he ever was then. For if armed with all those weapon's people could hardly stop him. Think of what he would do now. Being able to be far stronger and faster in this era, sure he was less likely to have his career wrecked when doing his dribbles.
That is big it's true. But I stand by it. Just imagine Maradona surrounded by the better training methods of today, the better health and welfare care. Able to be in better peak physical condition more often minus and protected by both the laws of the game and refs.
I'm not sure what you mean by intensity. But it is a fact that footballers at the highest level run, on average, about twice as much as they did in the 70s over 90 minutes. To my mind that equates very clearly to having a lot less time and space on the ball. You are also more likely to find strikers having covered the most ground in a game these days, suggesting they need to work a lot harder to find openings.
I'd categorise that as football being more intense. I'm not sure what standard you use to disagree with.
My standard is simple. I relate the level of play to the level of physical condition at the time. All football has done is get faster as players get healthier, as each era has passed. Thus it is easier to think players get a lot less time and space on the ball as result in this era than in era's past. When in real terms I feel it's not really true.
For even though defenders have got stronger and quicker. Those facing them have even got stronger and quicker too. So it evens things out some what.
Pele scored the vast majority of his goals in Brazil, when ALL of the Brazilian players during the era were also playing in the very same league, and if I seem to recall, they didnt make a bad fist of it in 1958 and 1962, did they?
You cant judge the Brazilian league set up to what it is now...
Pele was from a different era just like Maradona is to Messi. Players didn't go abroad as much and top players stayed at one most of their career. There were foreign players in big name sides like Inter and Madrid had few Argentinians and European exports but not like today where most teams in the top divisions have several squad members from all over the world. The 50s and 60s definitely weren't bad eras for football at all and as that blog post said other great Brazilians were in some of the tournaments at the time and Pele matched up against them and not just weak regional sides. He also did the business in some competitive friendlies against Benfica and AC Milan were he wiped the floor with Benfica in similar fashion to George Best. Pele retired from competitive football apart from a spell in America in 1970. I think he might not have suited the seventies or eighties as football was negative and hard during those decades, Maradona did it against some of the best defences during that period. I think Pele would be class if he played now while there are less characters like Maradona in the game now. He'd fail all the drug tests.
Messi's been a bit ropey lately as well. I think that "If he scores so many more goals and you top fat Ronaldo's long standing record at Barca has gone to his head and he's stopped passing to other players". He's probably not as good as Rivaldo or Zidane let alone Maradona, better than CRonaldo though.
Messi's been a bit ropey lately as well. I think that "If he scores so many more goals and you top fat Ronaldo's long standing record at Barca has gone to his head and he's stopped passing to other players". He's probably not as good as Rivaldo or Zidane let alone Maradona, better than CRonaldo though.
YouTube - Sir Pelé : The Best of Football 0021: Best Game In History !! * 1962 - Santos vs. Benfica Lisbon
Doesn't embed but Pele is making players look foolish
Doesn't embed but Pele is making players look foolish
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