Lionel Messi
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He's very often culpable in the big games. Liverpool last year he was muscled out of the match and left his defence having to cope with what, at times, was an onslaught.
He ghosts though big games, he might aswell not play, Diarra did a good job in the Nou Camp for the majority of the game because he has the energy to not give their artists time on the ball. Gago can't get close to anybody, it's a sad sight. Horrendous decision by the coach. What could have been?
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Well yeah, because Real and Barca are both extremely good teams, whatever they've spent. It's not like the other teams collectively become worse by virtue of Barca and Real outspending everyone. It's still one of the top two leagues in the world.
It's a kind of weird logic that because Real and Barca outspend everyone and are running away at the top by a countrymile, therefore the teams in the league are not as good and therefore the quality of the teams that are running away with it are not as impressive.
It may be less competitive than in former years, but I don't think the quality of the league overall has lessened all that much. Barca and Real are ahead of the pack by virtue of being quite a lot better. Not because Spanish teams are awful in comparison to their European counterparts.
The'res a difference between the competitiveness of a league and the overall strength of it compared to other leagues.
Do you read RM forums? Have a look at what they think of their side.
Flat-track bullies that have been found out every time the level of opposition rises.
And Xavi was the man in that game - he was superb.
I didn't mention Messi, not sure why you have.
The Chavster
i don' read real madrid forums, i watch real madrid games, and i think they are a really good team, with excellent players, like Ronaldo, Alonso, Higuain, Diarra, Van der Vart, but they happen to play in the same league that playes one of the best teams ever, Barcelona, with messi, xavi, pedro, piquet, puyol, abidal etc
you can say that they where beaten by Lyon in the CL, but if you watched both games, you'll see that the worst team won, as it happens a lot of times
The major hole in your post is in not mentioning the expenditure of the rest of the league, which is a key factor in why that league is now fodderish for RM and Barca.
Madrid alone outspent the entire league combined, iirc, outside of Barcelona. That's insane.
Where the hell do you expect them to end up with such an advantage over their opponents?
Given what they've spent, they're average, and in comparison to Barca, shite.
No team chemistry or cohesion.
They lost to Lyon because of the above. Higuain not passing to Ronaldo, etc.
Point is, putting them up against the current version of Barcelona should not have Barcelona lauded for winning - those sides are poles apart at the moment, the clasico is not what it's supposed to be at the moment.
You have people here essentially saying:
Real have spent a truckload more than everyone and are running away with the league (except for barca who are better) - ergo, their league is now shite and the fact that Real have so many points doesn't say much about their quality.
Which really has no logical structure. It makes much more sense to simply say
Real have spent a truckload more than everyone and are running away with the league (except for barca who are better) - ergo, all that money has given Real a great side capable of running away from everyone in the overall secondbest league in the world. They are now actually really good.
which is why it's bollocks when you have people saying this Real Madrid team is shite, etc. That kind of conclusion comes from not distinguishing between quality and comparative competitiveness of a league. The quality of la liga isn't lessened by Real outspending everyone, even if it does make it less competitive and the footballing quality of their team isn't less just because it cost a fortune.
They are extremely good, have shown it in the league and ought to be recognised as such, even if they are not as good as barca. You don't hit record point tallies without being very good.
They have a hangup in Europe, but frankly I think it's a matter of a hurdle for them to overcome before they re-assert themselves there. They clearly have the quality to be up there with the best.
The thing that's destroying Madrid is the politics that surround the club, the pro Madrid Paper that conducts Polls every other week, the declining influence of the actual managers and the significant influence of certain players like Raul.
They are not far from being one of the best but the mockery that surrounds them is dragging them down. They deserately need a massive overhaul and go back to basics and that starts with actually keeping a manager for once to help bed this team in properly and the older players who know that they should be nowhere near the first team need to find new work and let youngsters like Benzema do his thing.
Knowing them though they would just sign Maradona,Pele,Ribery,Mourinho and get destroyed by Barca again.
They are not far from being one of the best but the mockery that surrounds them is dragging them down. They deserately need a massive overhaul and go back to basics and that starts with actually keeping a manager for once to help bed this team in properly and the older players who know that they should be nowhere near the first team need to find new work and let youngsters like Benzema do his thing.
Knowing them though they would just sign Maradona,Pele,Ribery,Mourinho and get destroyed by Barca again.
You'd be right if RM were still in the CL, but they went out with a whimper and back to battering sides who, from a financial POV, are not in their stratosphere, let alone their league. The first time they come up against a team that are... they got battered. Again.
That is not impressive.
If Madrid couldn't come second, whilst outspending their entire opposition combined, there'd have to be some kind of executions going on at the Bernebau.
The league is obviously lesser quality than it has been in times gone by when you could expect 3 Spanish sides to go deep into the CL.
Valencia, the only side who looked like they could break the stranglehold these two have on the league, are struggling big time and I can't think of a good team from 5 years ago who are better or even par to what they were then.
That league goes:
Barca
RM
Everyone else by a distance.
It's a good advertisement for why individual TV deals shouldn't happen, actually.
Remember that you can't build a team in a year. Yes Madrid spent a shit load of money and they have a very strong squad. On paper i'd say it's stronger than Barcelonas but they are a relatively new team. IF they aren't challenging next season for the CL and winning la liga i'd say they have ****ped but it is hard for alot of new players to come in and gel and win straight away. Especially when you have a crafted team like Barcelona who have had the same fundamentals for years.
Madrid are by no means shit and could still win La Liga. Whilst Barca have the mentality and seeming confidence and know how in the big matches Madrid seem to be the more likely to steamroll the smaller teams. 3 points is nothing with 7 games to play.
Madrid are by no means shit and could still win La Liga. Whilst Barca have the mentality and seeming confidence and know how in the big matches Madrid seem to be the more likely to steamroll the smaller teams. 3 points is nothing with 7 games to play.
Pele scored over 1000 goals in the Brazilian and US leagues. They're shit.
Pele can be such a dickwad sometimes.
This..plus actually there were no defense back then even in Europe
Among the 1000 or so goals Pele scored, there are hundreds of them from meaningless friendlies.
That's actually a ringing endorsement for Messi, seeing as Pele's such a wrong bastard about everything.
But players could kick opposition attackers far more though. Maradona, Best, and Pele were tackled and kicked in a way Messi never will be which makes comparing them hard.
Have you seen the "defending" in La Liga or lack there of to be precise?
Agreed, Forti.
Funny thing is they're making comparisons when they've only seen a decade of football. Kids eh.
I think you're being too generous. Having watched Barcelona B jizz all over a strong Spurs team in pre-season, it's clear they have a number of hidden gems all schooled in the same style of play. Pedro for example came from practically nowhere to perform as arguably the best finisher in European football this season.
You'd need to be extremely good at arguing, even then, you'd still be laughed at for that suggestion.
He might qualify for 'best finisher among newcomers in the big leagues' but even then...
While Pedro is not the best finisher in Europe and far less the best striker, this season he has rarely squandered a chance. Saturday's el classico which just another example as I'm sure you will have been gutted to see. The stats are supportive as well:
Goals-to-Shots Ratio
Pedro 1 : 2.4 (17 goals)
Milito 1 : 3.8 (25 goals)
Torres 1 : 5.1 (23 goals)
Villa 1 : 5.3 (33 goals)
Ibra 1 : 6.0 (22 goals)
Rooney 1 : 6.2 (40 goals - including WC qualifying matches)
Eboue 1 : 8.0
Obviously with any statistic it is important to look at the context which is that some of those other strikers might have more pot-shots from distance. Nevertheless it remains an impressive feat and a fair reflection of Pedro's precise finishing this season.
Therefore, Sign Pedro
I understand it but it's the same for every generation.
The ones old enough to have seen Pele say he's the greatest they ever seen. You are old enough to have seen Maradona and so say he is the greatest. Younger people who have only truely watched football since the 90s wont have the same scope for players and so it's wittled down a bit more.
Cross generation comparisons are always a bit daft anyway. Each era seems to have a best player and each player from each generation will go down as an all time great i'd imagine. Messi is his generations great.
Gio is right. His all round play isn't anything to write home about but he rarely misses chances. He's wasted on the wing really, but he's too small to play up top on his own. No doubt he's a better finisher than a lot of suppossedly world class strikers.
It is an incredible ratio. Watching him i always get shocked when he doesnt hit the target.
whoa
Correct
classic Pele. Is it odd that the two greatest of all time seem to be a bit wrong in the head off the pitch?
Fine line between genius and being plain insane. Still this is Pele being a bit over the top. Still in the context of it he might have been having a little joke which is lost in translation or lost in the writing.
Its all that viagra, women say our brains are down there... too much stimulants and hes fecked himself right up.
No jokes. It was typical Pele. Great at being wrong and foot in mouth momments. Karma for what he used to do to keepers and defnders I guess
classic Pele. Is it odd that the two greatest of all time seem to be a bit wrong in the head off the pitch?
Fine line between genius and being plain insane. Still this is Pele being a bit over the top. Still in the context of it he might have been having a little joke which is lost in translation or lost in the writing.
I have to say, it doesn't feel like when Torres gets a chance, he needs five of them to put one away!!! The horrible git seems to tuck them all home...
None of these are as good as John O'Shea, I think that's what we have to conclude here
I thought the game became more physical nowadays ..
I watch la liga every week and it's not that poor like people suggest. We should have been watching Spanish teams getting battered in european cups if they are that pathetic
I see Messi has been talking...
Arsenal fans will be even more pissed off with him now!
Arsenal fans will be even more pissed off with him now!
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