This is a nice lil wonder goal to complete his hatrick against Madrid in the last min
I find this criteria ridiculous by the way Raees
I find this criteria ridiculous by the way Raees
Lionel Messi
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But answer me this. If Maradona doesn't score that wonder goal against England... would we not still remember him as arguably the greatest of all time? Having that moment is fantastic, and obviously it's the first clip you see of Maradona when you see programmes summing up his career... but it's not the be all and end all. It's a glamour moment in a career of achievement, but it's a bit purile for me to beat Messi up if he doesn't score a similar goal in the knockout stages of the World Cup against a top opponent. There is an amount of luck about the circumstances of these things
Messi scored the match sealing goal in the final of the greatest club competition against the strongest opponents possible to face that season... it might not have been a 'wonder goal', but does that matter? It was a goal of the greatest possible importance at a crucial, crucial point in the game. That's what really matters
I understand what you are trying to say, thing is I won't rate him any higher if he acomplishes a goal against Arsenal in the knockouts because he will be up against Clichy, Campbell (unless Gallas makes it) and Vermaelan (their best defender this season). I do accept he needs to do it in big games but he has regularly produced the goods in an El Classico and games in the CL already. Lets not forget how he performed against Chelsea as an 18/19 year old.
Oh yeh and lets not forget the winning goal in the bloody final! Plenty of big game accolades already.
I know all this, I was merely on about his dribbling level and I have come to the conclusion that Messi will make any defender look like an idiot, regardless who you put there.
Miles may be harsh but he still has a lot to do to surpass Diego. The reasons have been covered plenty over the last few pages. I'm not not enjoying the show, in fact i praised him in this thread yesterday saying IMO he is easily the BPITW. However he still does have a long way to go to reach Maradona's status. We're talking about the best player of all time.
Its not ridiculous mate, gosh I'm coming across as a Messi hater but far from it I love the lad.. I just want to make sure if we're acclaiming someone as the greatest of all time he better have fecking earnt it!
My point is this... if Messi V Arsenal/Inter/United was to score a goal reminiscent of Maradonas goal, the feck me it'd mean so much.. to get past defenders of that quality and finish it off too.. it would give him a greater footing in the ladder to be called the greatest.
If Argentina were to play spain in the WC and he was to drag argentina to a win through a moment of magic, then feckin hell.. I'd rush to acclaim him as the best.
This category is vital in wanting to be known as best of all time.
Big fan of Messi but you can't call that a wonder goal ;P
It's well taken, and he shows good pace, nerve, control and finishing, but a wonder goal it is not. A wonder goal that looks like that is Maradona finishing off Belgium in '86, when he's going so fast he can barely stay on his feet.
Would Messi be satisfied knowing he was remembered as a great goalscorer.. or would he like to be remembered as an all round footballing genius.
I think he will go on to accomplish the latter.
Getting winners in cup finals is step one, dominating cup finals and scoring great goals in the process .. wow he'd rank right at the very top, even the likes of Cruyff failed to do anything in a world cup final..
Shit I remember that goal, unerring composure. Reminds me of Savicevic vs Barcelona in the CL final.
He already is one, 99% of people who have seen Messi play would not deny him that. If he retired today he would be known as a footballing genius, because he's probably the best out of this generation.
There have been footballing genuises before him, if he was to retire today.. would he have accomplished anything better than George Best?
He needs to cement himself as the best footballing genius in a list of footballing geniuses.
Well he's well on his way to be the first Argentine to win the Balon'dor and Fifa world player of the year twice in a row, surely that will stick out like a sore thumb in the footballing history books, what he's won colectively and also indivudially speaks for itself already.
Messi could go on to be the best, who knows, all I know is that it's going to be a joy watching him try.
Of course he does
But you have to give him chance to do it!!!
There's been nothing about his career to date to suggest he can't
If Argentina hadn't had an inept manager at the last world cup, who knows he might already have taken that World Cup scalp
IMO I'll be very surprised if he doesn't go on to be minimum top five of all time and I hope he does go on to surpass Maradona as he is a lad from our generation.
Exactly, people have said in this thread it's impossible, let us see first.
For the record I don't think its impossible.
The FIFA joke award didn't exist before 1991. I'd imagine the likes of Pele, Cruyff, and Maradona would have bagged a handful each considering how the voting is based on popularity.
Who's saying its impossible?
Good point.
Err... you make it sound like Giggs was our most important player throughout the 90s. I don't think anyone can argue Giggs was the best dribbler at United, but many will argue that Schmeichel, Cantona & Keane all were more "important" to United.
I love Messi and consider him comfortably the best player around and the most talented since the young Ronaldo but Maradona was utterly unique.
The touch and feel Maradona had for the football is second to none. I personally haven't seen another player ever, with that complete mastery of the ball. Whether dribbling over rough terrain, pinging passes into players feet, digging at shots to apply the perfect trajectory, or even just pissing about pre-game, his manipulation of the ball was astonishing.
He was also the smartest footballer I've ever seen. He had 20/20 peripheral vision and read the game like a book.
I personally don't see Messi surpassing the great man (I don't think he quite has the tools) but he could well go on to be the best since. And there is no shame in that.
The touch and feel Maradona had for the football is second to none. I personally haven't seen another player ever, with that complete mastery of the ball. Whether dribbling over rough terrain, pinging passes into players feet, digging at shots to apply the perfect trajectory, or even just pissing about pre-game, his manipulation of the ball was astonishing.
He was also the smartest footballer I've ever seen. He had 20/20 peripheral vision and read the game like a book.
I personally don't see Messi surpassing the great man (I don't think he quite has the tools) but he could well go on to be the best since. And there is no shame in that.
Nah, I'm not so sure he's running games more than he used to - or the improvement in his game in that aspect isn't noticeably different to the improvement in his game in the other main ones - and it's not a tactical ploy by Guardiola, quite the opposite I think.
Guardiola's gone on record to say he wants Messi playing higher up the pitch, getting involved with the playmaking less and focussing on being a goal threat rather than a floating playmaker. He said Messi was often too deep and hovering too close to the centre circle trying to influence the play in ways that he doesn't need to.
And for you to think that it's becoming a big part of his game in this season of all seasons...it's unusual I feel, it's when he's been least influential in the all-round play IMO. Then again it's very true that Iniesta and Xavi haven't quite been at their best so maybe he's just making more meaningful contributions when he is in those positions because his team needs him to, and it just becomes more obvious when he's influencing the play at the right moments.
What a magnificent little cnut.
Spot on.
On a similar note, I still think Ronaldinho circa 2004-2006 (strictly calendar years) was the most monstrous player since Maradona. Not to knock Messi, when he finishes his career he will in all likelihood be regarded among the top 3 of all time. Dinho, for me at his best, was half a team all by himself.
Messi is pure genius and yes all of Barca's plays go through him, but Maradona, Zidane and Dinho redefined the meaning of the term 'fulcrum' in a way that Messi hasn't. Yes, I know he's just 22 and it will be interesting to see how he develops that aspect of his game, possibly once he's 27-28 and lost a yard or two.
Right now, he can be ranked among Fat Ron, Zidane and Dinho at his best as the best things on the pitch since Maradona.
All of Barca's plays do not go through Messi. He may be more heavily involved in things than before but it's always been Xavi who the play flows through, and it's pretty obvious to see that.
Yeah and maybe he would have adapted if he had to.
It's pure speculation to assume that he would have just crawled into his shell like a little girl in contrast to real man maradona. Hence, a pointless argument. If anything the evidence suggests that Messi won't bullied when people try their best to kick him out of a game.
@ vuc
I was stretching a point to ward off pointless arguments with posters who're already anointing him the greatest ever.
What you say is true, and it just proves that Messi is not the fulcrum of Barca and certainly Argentina.
I was stretching a point to ward off pointless arguments with posters who're already anointing him the greatest ever.
What you say is true, and it just proves that Messi is not the fulcrum of Barca and certainly Argentina.
Spoony is saying straight up that Messi can never compare to Maradona.
I don't think there are many here saying he is his equal at this point, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that the possibility of him becoming so is very much present. He has not been content with being the best dribbler around or even the best player in the world - he keeps adding and developing facets of his game. Who knows how far he will take it?
He really needs to develop his right foot
Lionel Messi is obviously the best around at the moment and ludicrously talented - I'd imagine though after winning everything that is to be won with Barcelona last season and probably going on to win the Balon d'Or again, he could, just could, relish a new challenge in some years' time.
I really think, we could - at one point in his career - see him in the Premier League.
I really think, we could - at one point in his career - see him in the Premier League.
yeah usually the music is pretty crap.
I found the pass I was talking about
YouTube - Ronaldinho vs. Real Madrid
@1:27
Back on Messi comparing him with Maradona is a bit premature. He may hit his prime later on and become even better(not that ne isn't scary good right now and the best player atm), but for me he's still behind (not by much) Ronnie of 06/07, let alone Maradona.
Why if he can be this good with his left ?
Another stunning performance. If you didnt see it then watch this.
It's unbelievebale how good that boy is.
The second goal against Zaragoza was superb.
The second goal against Zaragoza was superb.
best of the best.
i loved the piss taking he was doing. Where he won the penalty by just running rings around players in the box until he was pulled down. The first man he beats with the touch over his head was hilarious.
You could take the clear intent to deny him scoring another outstanding goal when the defender brought him down for the penalty.If he had scored it then
Anyone else lip read at 3:38?
"Listen Lionel, my missus is watching in the crowd, please don't embarrass me like this"
"Listen Lionel, my missus is watching in the crowd, please don't embarrass me like this"
Absolutely spot on.
A question: how do you think he compares to Fat Ronaldo? I think his performances last season and this one have been better than any of Fat Ronaldo, Zidane or Ronaldinho, and he's had a better trophy return than any of them. That says a lot considering that Ronaldo and Ronaldinho were almost unplayable at some point in their careers.
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